apharma.3741 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > That's why scrapper's condition cleanse should stay and force people to play an honest power meta, that's a lot better than last season, > > Yeah I don't know how many Scrappers will be running Purge Gyro because without a second stunbreak and second stability it can be rough. You can't assume the enemy Scrapper will be invulnerable to conditions. > > Scrapper can be either anti-condi or survive vs. CC reliably. No EU Scrappers seem to favor condi removal I've noticed too At the end of the day only scourge now applies enough condition pressure to make a scrapper consider purge gyro at all and even then there's better options for a scrapper to get increased condition management than purge gyro. The insane barrier given by bulwark gyro can be used to sail through without much of a problem unless the scourge is supported or there's 2 condition classes there and as you say in nearly all circumstances it's never worth giving up stab or second stunbreak/might etc. It's not a choice anyone realistically has to make unless against a heavy condition comp which you don't often see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 > @"phokus.8934" said: > Because like I said they base a lot of their changes based off of what the data is telling them. Blurred Frenzy was nerfed in damage and duration due to it being used in Mirage builds and thus having too much sustain. > > The same goes for the vigor nerfs which impacted all of Mesmer. If something is overpeforming then naturally you’re going to have outrage on the forums although very misguided. ANet does take the data analytic approach, and overall health of the game in mind when balancing. Sure we can joke that they randomly nerf/buff things at times but they have data that they rely on when doing such changes. If data leads to such stupid and unnecessary changes as blurred frenzy and core mesmer vigor, maybe they should balance by forum qq instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > Because like I said they base a lot of their changes based off of what the data is telling them. Blurred Frenzy was nerfed in damage and duration due to it being used in Mirage builds and thus having too much sustain. > > > > The same goes for the vigor nerfs which impacted all of Mesmer. If something is overpeforming then naturally you’re going to have outrage on the forums although very misguided. ANet does take the data analytic approach, and overall health of the game in mind when balancing. Sure we can joke that they randomly nerf/buff things at times but they have data that they rely on when doing such changes. > > If data leads to such stupid and unnecessary changes as blurred frenzy and core mesmer vigor, maybe they should balance by forum qq instead. According to my memory every nerf that happened on mesmer was driven by forum QQ. Brightest examples been torch burns and EM from 3 to 6 seconds . About scrapper... Its even better than chronobunker ...just ...by few times I think . But engimains assure you its useless and bad :+1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan.1309 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Forgot about this thread, I've been too busy killing scrappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTruth.6813 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > That's why scrapper's condition cleanse should stay and force people to play an honest power meta, that's a lot better than last season, > > Yeah I don't know how many Scrappers will be running Purge Gyro because without a second stunbreak and second stability it can be rough. You can't assume the enemy Scrapper will be invulnerable to conditions. > > Scrapper can be either anti-condi or survive vs. CC reliably. No EU Scrappers seem to favor condi removal I've noticed too I'm okay with cleanse condis on granting protection (specifically the gyro heal toolbelt) not getting touched either. That gyro heal F1 and elixir gun is enough vs. conditions and forcing people to play an honest meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty.9348 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 To make it simple: supertough scrapper is just a result of powercreep. If it is nerfed while receivivg the same dmg pressure, it will melt with no chance to be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > Because like I said they base a lot of their changes based off of what the data is telling them. Blurred Frenzy was nerfed in damage and duration due to it being used in Mirage builds and thus having too much sustain. > > > > The same goes for the vigor nerfs which impacted all of Mesmer. If something is overpeforming then naturally you’re going to have outrage on the forums although very misguided. ANet does take the data analytic approach, and overall health of the game in mind when balancing. Sure we can joke that they randomly nerf/buff things at times but they have data that they rely on when doing such changes. > > If data leads to such stupid and unnecessary changes as blurred frenzy and core mesmer vigor, maybe they should balance by forum qq instead. I didn't agree with BF or vigor changes for pvp but we also have to keep in mind that they balance around pve as well. Even with skill splitting, it just seems easier for them to do it across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicast.1459 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Scrapper is not OP. 1v3 is working as intended. Don't touch my toy. We have been out of meta with this spec for so long. We deserve to rollface this time don't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan.1309 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I'm considering putting together a class on how to kill Scrappers through the lense of a ranger, would anyone be interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 > @"Brendan.1309" said: > I'm considering putting together a class on how to kill Scrappers through the lense of a ranger, would anyone be interested? You should make one with every class and their meta build otherwise no-one will be happy. What am I saying, no-one will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 > @"Brendan.1309" said: > I'm considering putting together a class on how to kill Scrappers through the lense of a ranger, would anyone be interested? Already on it. I've got a bunch of footage of how to kill scrappers quickly and efficiently as a soulbeast. Now we just need 1 of every other class to do the same and then pitch together for montage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exedore.6320 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > Forum opinions drive the balance. There is truth to this statement, but not in the way that you think. Players are great at identifying, in a broad sense, what is too strong or what isn't fun. If the complaints last past a couple days after the patch, the players are almost always correct in that something is broken or un-fun. They don't have fun against mesmers, and now they're not having fun against scrappers. The next step: identifying why things are too strong or why they aren't fun is where players begin to miss the mark. The more specific ideas get, the more likely that they're incorrect. For example, saying Mirage is too strong because it can hit me a lot while I can't hit it back or stop it through counter-attack is a good comment. Player suggested solutions are rarely ever good, and there are a ton of them. Many don't play the profession/build well or at all and tend to focus on the most visible abilities (what shows up with big numbers or has the flashy effect). Few have deep understanding of the interactions of multiple abilities and traits; even those who do may not fully grasp the overall impact of proposed changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I would say scrapper is in a pretty good state after playing it for the past couple of days great sustain with junk dps, obviously if you go dps you will lose quite a bit of sustain, much more balanced design than mirage (great sustain and dmg at the same time) obviously really depends on the classes you are up against with 1 vs X, if you are against multiple burst classes at once, you are unlikely to react in time last night i was constantly getting destroyed by concurrent mirage, DH, scourge bursts, ouch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan.1309 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Brendan.1309" said: > > I'm considering putting together a class on how to kill Scrappers through the lense of a ranger, would anyone be interested? > > Already on it. I've got a bunch of footage of how to kill scrappers quickly and efficiently as a soulbeast. Now we just need 1 of every other class to do the same and then pitch together for montage. I would think power Mesmer, The heavy damage elementalist, curses necro, a great warrior or a crappy berserker rifle warrior, power shiro, and perhaps even burn guard could do it. There's also the option of other side node builds to outplay it for node ownership and lets not forget there is no rule that says you can't just send another scrapper with more knockbacks. The thing about it is, it’s a side node expert. You’re meant to kill it fast with uneven numbers. Optionally, you don’t even need to kill it just pressure it till your side noder claims the point and leave. When I play scrapper people send bad matchups against me constantly, multiple builds that are low damage anyway. Then they message me calling it OP though they sent a boonbeast and a bunker weaver to take a point and that’s just silly. If you duo queue and the other team is all scrappers (cause some of you are making it sound that way) just play 2rotational damage dealers and you will win. Scrappers are slow and they like to play alone, gank them hard and fast the bigger the map the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 > @"Exedore.6320" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > Forum opinions drive the balance. > > There is truth to this statement, but not in the way that you think. > It is in the way I think, already proved it, in the posts above, some of which got deleted. It's really easy, check the nerf patches, than look on forums for complains about that profession and you'll see 100% matches. Every single mesmer nerf was preceded by the respective complain, the last one being mc cut to .75. Even gave the thief example, which patch is copy paste from safandula suggestion. Now I don't care about any profession apart from mesmer so I only retain what is about it and can assure you nerfs were done based on complains. If BF is the skill being complain BF gets nerfed and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > Forum opinions drive the balance. > It is in the way I think, already proved it, in the posts above, some of which got deleted. - Correlation does not imply causation, no matter how many times stated. - A high number of complaints about a class is highly correlated with that class actually getting nerfs, yes. It's also highly correlated with a class actually needing nerfs. - Just because there's proof that somebody complained near the time of nerfs happening, if you say that's also proof that forum opinions drive the balance, that's a very foolish thing to conflate together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 This thread.: Everyone but engy mains: "Scrappers are overperforming." Engy mains: "But mesmers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > This thread.: > > Everyone but engy mains: "Scrappers are overperforming." > Engy mains: "But mesmers." This thread was started by a ranger main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"phokus.8934" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > Because like I said they base a lot of their changes based off of what the data is telling them. Blurred Frenzy was nerfed in damage and duration due to it being used in Mirage builds and thus having too much sustain. > > > > > > The same goes for the vigor nerfs which impacted all of Mesmer. If something is overpeforming then naturally you’re going to have outrage on the forums although very misguided. ANet does take the data analytic approach, and overall health of the game in mind when balancing. Sure we can joke that they randomly nerf/buff things at times but they have data that they rely on when doing such changes. > > > > If data leads to such stupid and unnecessary changes as blurred frenzy and core mesmer vigor, maybe they should balance by forum qq instead. > > I didn't agree with BF or vigor changes for pvp but we also have to keep in mind that they balance around pve as well. Even with skill splitting, it just seems easier for them to do it across the board. How are blurred frenzy and vigor relevant to PvE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 How to nerd scrappers, undo all the last changes. Ez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > This thread.: > > > > Everyone but engy mains: "Scrappers are overperforming." > > Engy mains: "But mesmers." > > This thread was started by a ranger main. Anything to distract from scrappers overperforming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > Because like I said they base a lot of their changes based off of what the data is telling them. Blurred Frenzy was nerfed in damage and duration due to it being used in Mirage builds and thus having too much sustain. > > > > > > > > The same goes for the vigor nerfs which impacted all of Mesmer. If something is overpeforming then naturally you’re going to have outrage on the forums although very misguided. ANet does take the data analytic approach, and overall health of the game in mind when balancing. Sure we can joke that they randomly nerf/buff things at times but they have data that they rely on when doing such changes. > > > > > > If data leads to such stupid and unnecessary changes as blurred frenzy and core mesmer vigor, maybe they should balance by forum qq instead. > > > > I didn't agree with BF or vigor changes for pvp but we also have to keep in mind that they balance around pve as well. Even with skill splitting, it just seems easier for them to do it across the board. > > How are blurred frenzy and vigor relevant to PvE? Vigor for condi mirage rotations and BF damage and duration nerf impacted power and support chrono (pve fractals and raids). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 So here's a new video to make you question if Scrapper is OP or not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI80zsNaW0M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycura.1982 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Hey I'm in this gank montage in the kill feed. ? Thankfully I'm not on the receiving end of that bs burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruufio.1496 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Ya sic em needs to be nerfed in half to 20% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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