Obtena.7952 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Anastasia.7103 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Is it still called ganking if your party of 5 cuts off enemy reinforcements in a choke or busy area in order to wane the already high-in-numbers enemy zerg assaulting your server's territory? Is that not a tactic helping your server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. Its open world PvP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > Its open world PvP... > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. I think the thing that is a bit strange here is that if players that are truly seeking that GOOD, HONEST and CHALLENGING 1 vs. 1 experience ... why are they looking for it in WvW? That seems really off to me. Is there some secret gathering area where people do fight club or something? It appears that with the introduction of mounts, Anet doesn't seem to think too much different either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. > > I think the thing that is a bit strange here is that if players that are truly seeking that GOOD, HONEST and CHALLENGING 1 vs. 1 experience ... why are they looking for it in WvW? That seems really off to me. Is there some secret gathering area where people do fight club or something? It appears that with the introduction of mounts, Anet doesn't seem to think too much different either. Its open world PvP... Its going to have things you like and dislike and its full of players with different likes and dislikes, why should the game change that aspect to fit your needs? Its open world PvP, its full of players who prefer to zerg or prefer to tackle the world alone, naturally fights happen both 1v1 and zergvzerg and everything in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. > > I think the thing that is a bit strange here is that if players that are truly seeking that GOOD, HONEST and CHALLENGING 1 vs. 1 experience ... why are they looking for it in WvW? That seems really off to me. Is there some secret gathering area where people do fight club or something? It appears that with the introduction of mounts, Anet doesn't seem to think too much different either. See comments like this are unfortunate. “Go play pvp conquest” why should they?because on type of playstyle fits u and some other and everyone should conform to ur ridiculous notion that in a open world pvp mode players should play by some made up rules of conduct that a group that of pve minded people set. It’s pretty simple and not hard to understand open world pvp means PLAYERS FIGHT EACH OTHER in an OPEN WORLD with NO SET OF GUIDELINES FOR WHEN PLAYERS ARE TO ENGAGE lol this has gotta be the only pvp mode in existence that players expect to not be engaged entities to an objective or engaged anywhere outside of doing objectives and if they do their cheesey ganker lmao I was solo and got rolled by a basically a whole Zerg of 30 that literally chased little ol me down to roll over me,am I annoyed?no.also mounted groups gank even easier now but it’s ok cuz u can get to ur zero safer haha. This whole roaming-ganker-havoc being hated on needs to stop. It’s literal bad players that like to sit in a huge blob and spam buttons and just playing stay outa the circles,no wonder they hate focused fights lol All playstyles are acceptable and allowed as their are no rules,so quit telling anyone that doesn’t feel like just zerging to leave wvw and go to conquest,u leave and go to pve so the players that want to have diversified engagements outside of a blobbed mess can play how the want as they usually care little about telling others how to play :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaeira.2651 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. I was speaking of flipping camps, soloing towers, hiding in towers / keeps after a takeover to solo the lord, taking bloodlust, etc. -- that's what I understand as roaming. Dueling is dueling, not roaming. By the way the same problem occurs for a 3 on 3 with people on warclaw. Whoever gets off first, is at a disadvantage so better come with superior firepower to compensate. Only when groups get sufficiently large that half of your team has enough firepower to get people to dismount it starts to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. > > I think the thing that is a bit strange here is that if players that are truly seeking that GOOD, HONEST and CHALLENGING 1 vs. 1 experience ... why are they looking for it in WvW? That seems really off to me. Is there some secret gathering area where people do fight club or something? It appears that with the introduction of mounts, Anet doesn't seem to think too much different either. Its not really a secret. There are areas where you generally dont get attacked because people go there to duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nxsage.6578 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > > @"Sylosi.6503" said: > > Just showing what an actual PvP player thinks of the trash tier PvP in WvW as opposed to it being the "PvE plebs" having an issue with it as you make out. If you want decent PvP then roaming in 2019 is garbage and has been for a long time now. > I think you misunderstood, PvE plebs have an issue with getting ganked and they don't want to improve to be able to handle themselves so they assume roaming is bad. Also Roaming isn't the same as PvP, they are two completely different game modes. Even with the lack of updates and the random balance changes..I was fine with the state of WvW until now, with mounts it isn't even playable. > > Not really, roaming is a small minority in a minority game mode, barely anyone does it, in the grand scheme of things no one cares what "PvP'ers" who think "fighting" some guy on a minstrels support build is worthwhile PvP want. > Nope, I disagree.. In my server (Deso)/ Gandara/ AG/ Underworld there are a huge number of roamers and roaming guilds. And every roamer has their own code, it's stupid to assume every roamer hunts down only ministrel FB supports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckota.4769 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"nxsage.6578" said: > ~~And every roamer has their own code,~~ it's stupid to assume ~~every roamer hunts down only ministrel FB supports.~~ Cut this down even more to help those people who never roam yet believe they can generalize every roamer understand easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrito.8513 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. In your opnion Imo zerging too doesnt have a positive impact in the overall results, because in the end of the day, winning **DOESNT MATTER** WvW is about having fun the way you want. But If you want to kill npcs and not die to players..... Your place os not here You can do this in ANY **PvE** map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaeira.2651 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. > > > > I think the thing that is a bit strange here is that if players that are truly seeking that GOOD, HONEST and CHALLENGING 1 vs. 1 experience ... why are they looking for it in WvW? That seems really off to me. Is there some secret gathering area where people do fight club or something? It appears that with the introduction of mounts, Anet doesn't seem to think too much different either. > > Its not really a secret. There are areas where you generally dont get attacked because people go there to duel. But what happened to duelers killing everyone who passed the south sentry? /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylosi.6503 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"nxsage.6578" said: > I think you misunderstood, PvE plebs have an issue with getting ganked and they don't want to improve to be able to handle themselves so they assume roaming is bad. You missed the point, actual PvP players not merely "PvE plebs" have an issue with the "PvP" in WvW because so much of the "PvP" is simply trash tier. The whole basis for good, fun PvP is competitiveness, not in some e-sport sense, but simply that a match or encounter is close enough that it provides engaging gameplay, pushes you at least somewhat to perform, etc. WvW fails miserably at that on every level from zergs to guilds to roaming. No one actually bothered about good PvP ganks beyond occasionally keeping their tick active for the simple reason it is boring "PvP", it is no different from zergers that chase down 2 guys with 50, ganker, zerger, they are all "PvE plebs" that have no real concern for decent or even fun PvP. > Also Roaming isn't the same as PvP, they are two completely different game modes. Even with the lack of updates and the random balance changes..I was fine with the state of WvW until now, with mounts it isn't even playable. If you were fine with the state of WvW before mounts, then really that just says you have very, very low standards. > Nope, I disagree.. In my server (Deso)/ Gandara/ AG/ Underworld there are a huge number of roamers and roaming guilds. LOL, the number of roamers / guilds is pitiful compared to what it was, the amount of hanging around spawns, trailing zergs, duelling, that PvE plebs call "roaming" now is hilarious, maybe you are new... > And every roamer has their own code, it's stupid to assume every roamer hunts down only ministrel FB supports. What is stupid is coming to the conclusion I said every roamer behaves like that, when I didn't. WvW is "PvP" for PvE players and that includes roamers (especially the last 3 or so years), Mike O'Brien was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus.3192 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > I would say its a poor tactical choice to bring builds that apparently could not range down a mount that was even limited by a capping circle when you **know** you'll encounter mounted foes at every turn now. > Lol so if i was a spellbreaker i have to completely change my build and carry a longbow or rifle to counter mounts now? ok thanks for the amazing advice. LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal.9324 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Roaming is so boring now. No one wants to fight until they outnumber you to the point that you don't have a chance to fight back, at which point they will happily run you over. And before anyone starts with that whole "oh ur just a ganker git gud lol nub" crap, I play a tanky warrior that probably couldn't gank even if I wanted it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. > > > > I think the thing that is a bit strange here is that if players that are truly seeking that GOOD, HONEST and CHALLENGING 1 vs. 1 experience ... why are they looking for it in WvW? That seems really off to me. Is there some secret gathering area where people do fight club or something? It appears that with the introduction of mounts, Anet doesn't seem to think too much different either. > > Its not really a secret. There are areas where you generally dont get attacked because people go there to duel. Perfect ... so what's the problem with Warclaw then? Why are all these people complaining they can't get 1 vs. 1 encounters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. > > In your opnion > > Imo zerging too doesnt have a positive impact in the overall results, because in the end of the day, winning **DOESNT MATTER** > > WvW is about having fun the way you want. > But If you want to kill npcs and not die to players..... Your place os not here > You can do this in ANY **PvE** map > I don't think that's JUST my opinion ... mounts move WvW away from the sandbox and closer to the theme park. That's an INTENDED move. Sure WvW is about playing how you want ... so if you can still find people foolish enough to put themselves in a position for a gank ... you can still play that way. It's not a problem. ... and no one is talking about not dying or killing NPCS. No one is advocating turning WvW into PVE. Don't be sensational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > I was speaking of flipping camps, soloing towers, hiding in towers / keeps after a takeover to solo the lord, taking bloodlust, etc. -- that's what I understand as roaming. Dueling is dueling, not roaming. > > By the way the same problem occurs for a 3 on 3 with people on warclaw. Whoever gets off first, is at a disadvantage so better come with superior firepower to compensate. Only when groups get sufficiently large that half of your team has enough firepower to get people to dismount it starts to change. And none of those activities are killed by mounts and mounts doesn't prevent you from get a 1 vs. 1 encounter in those encounters either. If anything, getting to those places are facilitated by mounts to allow people to play that kind of game, so I'm betting you are MORE likely to get a 1 vs. 1 encounter soloing a camp than you were before because a person can get their faster to fight you. They actually have a chance to prevent the camp flip if they can beat the attacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nxsage.6578 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Sylosi.6503" said: > You missed the point, actual PvP players have an issue with the "PvP" in WvW because so much of the "PvP" is simply trash tier. The whole basis for good, fun PvP is competitiveness, not in some e-sport sense, but simply that a match or encounter is close enough that it provides engaging gameplay, pushes you at least somewhat to perform, etc. WvW fails miserably at that on every level from zergs to guilds to roaming. > You seem to have issues with the entire game mode.. if you think PvP solves those issues that's great. I'm not here to argue that PvP is so much better WvW, it might be for you. This is the closest thing we have to open world pvp and with all its flaws I still like WvW and I want it to get better..I'm talking about the state of mounts and how it doesn't help the mode in the slightest. > No one actually bothered about good PvP ganks beyond occasionally keeping their tick active for the simple reason it is boring "PvP", it is no different from zergers that chase down 2 guys with 50, ganker, zerger, they are all "PvE plebs" that have no real concern for decent or even fun PvP. > > If you were fine with the state of WvW before mounts, then really that just says you have very, very low standards. > Yep, I've grown to have really low standards with WvW updates. > LOL, the number of roamers / guilds is pitiful compared to what it was, the amount of hanging around spawns, trailing zergs, duelling, that PvE plebs call "roaming" now is hilarious, maybe you are new... > I agree the state of wvw is pitiful compared to what it was years back..but that isn't what we're discussing here, is it? It is in a really bad state, that doesn't mean we allow it to get worse with unbalanced mounts. And no, I'm not new.. I'm new to the forums because I've never had a reason to use it but now that I'm on the verge of quitting I'm trying to figure out what makes these devs so clueless.. > > What is stupid is coming to the conclusion I said every roamer behaves like that, when I didn't. > > WvW is "PvP" for PvE players and that includes roamers (especially the last 3 or so years), Mike O'Brien was right. > I don't think this is the right forum to vent your hate for the game mode. If you have an argument for why mounts are good in their current state, I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddie.5861 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said: > Warclaw has killed ganking not roaming. People are often confusing roaming for ganking. You can still roam around on warclaw, flip camps and attack towers with a small group. You can also attack other small groups trying to take camps or towers once they're dismounted. You can also duel with other like roamers who have warclaw, just jump off and start attacking each other. > > Hiding in stealth ready to ambush someone, or killing them on the way to their group or objective isn't roaming, it's ganking. Especially if the player isn't sitting in a build capable of fending off someone in a single or small group setting. That is what warclaw basically ended, and thankfully it did. We're likely to find more pve players starting to filter into WvW now because they can confidently get to their groups and participate. > > Just as Magnuzone pointed out, play against people interested in fighting you (as they likely are in a build made to do so), problem solved. Ganking is not roaming. ganking is a part that helps people alot.. if i gank 2 firebrands getting back to their commander its a huge difference for that blob missing 2 firebrands means 2 groups are more or less useless.. but i figured out for them gankers what to do. just go gank on shiro/demon torment build rev they pop off their running mounts so fast, and while they are stunned u poo so much condi on em they will almost insta die. enjoy build gl :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaeira.2651 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > I was speaking of flipping camps, soloing towers, hiding in towers / keeps after a takeover to solo the lord, taking bloodlust, etc. -- that's what I understand as roaming. Dueling is dueling, not roaming. > > > > By the way the same problem occurs for a 3 on 3 with people on warclaw. Whoever gets off first, is at a disadvantage so better come with superior firepower to compensate. Only when groups get sufficiently large that half of your team has enough firepower to get people to dismount it starts to change. > > And none of those activities are killed by mounts and mounts doesn't prevent you from get a 1 vs. 1 encounter in those encounters either. If anything, getting to those places are facilitated by mounts to allow people to play that kind of game, so I'm betting you are MORE likely to get a 1 vs. 1 encounter soloing a camp than you were before because a person can get their faster to fight you. They actually have a chance to prevent the camp flip if they can beat the attacker. > It seems you didn't read the part about a stalemate for low numbers. So say you're arriving to defend a camp. All veterans are cleared, the circle is up and the enemy roamer mounts up. How does it go on from there? Edit: typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrito.8513 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. > > > > In your opnion > > > > Imo zerging too doesnt have a positive impact in the overall results, because in the end of the day, winning **DOESNT MATTER** > > > > WvW is about having fun the way you want. > > But If you want to kill npcs and not die to players..... Your place os not here > > You can do this in ANY **PvE** map > > > > I don't think that's JUST my opinion ... mounts move WvW away from the sandbox and closer to the theme park. That's an INTENDED move. That was not the intent and we all know why they released the Warclaw >Sure WvW is about playing how you want ... so if you can still find people foolish enough to put themselves in a position for a gank ... you can still play that way. It's not a problem. . Thats exactly the problem. Warclaw promotes PvP avoidance and outnumbered ganking. You avoid a fight because you think you cant win, it will happen in 1v1,2v2,3v3,20v20 and so on. People will only pick fights they are sure to win. And THIS is not healthy for the gamemode It will kill roaming because they are the fools in position of a gank....most likely a outnumbered gank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaeira.2651 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. > > > > > > I think the thing that is a bit strange here is that if players that are truly seeking that GOOD, HONEST and CHALLENGING 1 vs. 1 experience ... why are they looking for it in WvW? That seems really off to me. Is there some secret gathering area where people do fight club or something? It appears that with the introduction of mounts, Anet doesn't seem to think too much different either. > > > > Its not really a secret. There are areas where you generally dont get attacked because people go there to duel. > > Perfect ... so what's the problem with Warclaw then? Why are all these people complaining they can't get 1 vs. 1 encounters? You are switching between arguments: when we are speaking about roaming (flipping camps, etc) you bring up duels (people who fight only other duelers). When we are speaking about duels you bring up gankers (people who prey on weak targets, often when outnumbering them). When we are speaking about ganking you bring up roamers. All of these are (potential) one on one situations but they are obviously different. Please don't mix them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > > > > > > > Its open world PvP... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup ... and even though that's true, there are going to be behaviours that simply aren't a positive impact on the health of the game mode or really don't have a significant impact in the overall results of the game mode. Seeking 1 vs. 1 encounters is one of those. > > > > > > In your opnion > > > > > > Imo zerging too doesnt have a positive impact in the overall results, because in the end of the day, winning **DOESNT MATTER** > > > > > > WvW is about having fun the way you want. > > > But If you want to kill npcs and not die to players..... Your place os not here > > > You can do this in ANY **PvE** map > > > > > > > I don't think that's JUST my opinion ... mounts move WvW away from the sandbox and closer to the theme park. That's an INTENDED move. > That was not the intent and we all know why they released the Warclaw > > >Sure WvW is about playing how you want ... so if you can still find people foolish enough to put themselves in a position for a gank ... you can still play that way. It's not a problem. > . > Thats exactly the problem. > Warclaw promotes PvP avoidance and outnumbered ganking. > You avoid a fight because you think you cant win, it will happen in 1v1,2v2,3v3,20v20 and so on. > People will only pick fights they are sure to win. > And THIS is not healthy for the gamemode > > It will kill roaming because they are the fools in position of a gank....most likely a outnumbered gank Running away promotes PVP avoidance too and no one had a problem with that prior to warclaw ... the only thing the Warclaw does is that it gives people choice because they can't be ganked from stealth anymore. No roaming is killed .. you just have to do it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Deaeira.2651" said: > > > > > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said: > > > > > > Gankers are upset because they get double boned. They get way less kills vs players that don't wanna 1 vs 1 for a dozen reasons and they get chased down now because we all have mounts. You want fights? Stop roaming around for easy ganks and take camps/def camps. I will fight anyone when trying to take camps but no I'm not hopping off my mount to fight 1 dude in the middle of nowhere when I get way more wxp or help my team more taking objectives. > > > > > > > > > > It's the other way around... noone will go for 1:1 fights anymore, poeple will only attack when they're outnumbering you. Warclaw promotes ganking, > > > > > > > > here is the thing ... in what way does 'going for' 1 vs. 1 encounters in WvW have ever benefited your side in WvW? Is there any scenario in WvW where solo people seeking other solo players to kill is in the spirit of what WvW is about. > > > > > > > > Of course, if one player encounters another because a player is soloing camps or something, there could be a fight and someone wins, but if there is any benefit for **seeking out duels**, it's insignificant to the WvW result at best. Killing a player in transit to somewhere ... almost no meaningful benefit to the WvW activity. > > > > > > > > So why would Anet preserve that? Warclaw promotes a group of people ganking solo players, even on warclaws? I don't see a problem with that ... those players have a chance or at least have the ability to respond, make a decision, etc ... Maybe THAT is the goal here. Giving players choice, allowing them to fight as a defender at some level on their terms ... not just being one-shotted from no where. > > > > > > I was speaking of flipping camps, soloing towers, hiding in towers / keeps after a takeover to solo the lord, taking bloodlust, etc. -- that's what I understand as roaming. Dueling is dueling, not roaming. > > > > > > By the way the same problem occurs for a 3 on 3 with people on warclaw. Whoever gets off first, is at a disadvantage so better come with superior firepower to compensate. Only when groups get sufficiently large that half of your team has enough firepower to get people to dismount it starts to change. > > > > And none of those activities are killed by mounts and mounts doesn't prevent you from get a 1 vs. 1 encounter in those encounters either. If anything, getting to those places are facilitated by mounts to allow people to play that kind of game, so I'm betting you are MORE likely to get a 1 vs. 1 encounter soloing a camp than you were before because a person can get their faster to fight you. They actually have a chance to prevent the camp flip if they can beat the attacker. > > > > It seems you didn't read the part about a stalemate for low numbers. So say you're arriving to defend a camp. All veterans are cleared, the circle is up and the enemy roamer mounts up. How does it go on from there? > > Edit: typo I don't know. How does it go from there? If there is a problem with mounts preventing camp capping, you need to plan for it until it gets changed. I mean, people need to stop pretending like unintended uses leads to the conclusion that mounts are bad. and we shouldn't have them. No, it means with good feedback, Anet can change how mounts work so they aren't being used in unintentional ways ... or maybe give ground players a tool to dismount players that do these activities. You're not looking at how to move forward here, only back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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