Hey Non WvWers, what turns you off about WvW?

[Danikat.8537]

I do play WvW periodically (I'm up to the lower end of the bronze ranks) but for me the problem is it gets repetitive. The combat itself can be fun, but after a while I get tired of going round and round the same 3 maps (counting both alpine borderlands as 1) with the same few objectives (only difference between one keep and another is slight differences in layout) attacking and defending them over and over and over again. And then after a week everything you've done is reset and you start over from scratch so even if you were somehow making progress it's all wiped out. So then I stop playing for a while and come back to it later when either I feel like doing it again or I want something which can only come from WvW.

 

And no I don't mean it's boring because I'm running with groups who never defend so it's just an endless karma-train of taking objectives and then letting the enemy take them over so we can take them back with no actual PvP. I've seen that happen occasionally but even when we're defending it's still the same few locations we're going between over and over. As I said the combat can be fun but that on it's own isn't enough to hold my interest indefinitely.

 

It's like if PvE was only the HoT maps and the only option was to do the same 4 meta events over and over and over, that would get boring too. I know some people are ok with that (some people will even pick just 1 meta event and do nothing else unless it's changed and no longer the most profitable) but I just can't do that, it starts to feel like a chore instead of a game I'm playing for fun.

 

What could fix that? Nothing WvW players would be happy with. New maps with more varied objectives would be a big help. My favourite current map is the desert borderlands, just because the layout of the keeps is a bit more interesting and the addition of the shrines and terrain effects (like the foggy area in the middle) adds some variety and changes the tactics required. I'd also like to play on the Edge of the Mists more but it feels a bit pointless when it doesn't count towards your worlds score, you don't get skirmish chests and there's such a high chance of being dumped into an empty map with no way to find an active one when no one advertises EOTM squads in LFG.

 

Maybe also something like the WvW Seasons they used to do which made the end of a match feel a bit more final and meaningful - like something had finished and your world had placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd instead of just "Oh, it's Friday, time to start over."

[castlemanic.3198]

what turns me off about wvw is the pvp aspect of it. I don't enjoy meta builds generally because the skills that are meta are not enjoyable for me to use and generally go against the fantasy of the character that i created and enjoy. and the fantasy is a big draw for me when it comes to playing games like mmos. i do enjoy the fantasy of siege warfare (and particularly defending stonemist has felt like a blast, whether we win or lose) which has been the most exciting part of wvw, and occasionally the rewards are worth it, but as a whole i don't see myself spending a significant amount of time in wvw compared to pve because of the necessity of meta builds and pvp elements.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> Hey Non WvWers, what turns you off about WvW? And what may get you interested in playing it more often?

Zergs. I hate zergs, in PvE as well. It's total disorienting chaos where you can't get what to do and what's going on, can't react to anything as it's impossible to distinguish a particular event in this mess. On top of that, you also feel like your contribution becomes close to zero, like you are not really even needed there and could just afk around the corner without affecting odds of winning for your team.

 

I would get more interested if small-scale (5-10 ppl) encounters would be more viable and frequent. That also implies current ability of certain professions to one-shot you from stealth will be nerfed.

[kharmin.7683]

I like to play my own builds, so I don't get into the whole meta thing. In WvW I'm just not good enough to handle other players, so I don't enjoy getting trounced. Some, but not all, of my experiences have been less than positive with the community there, too. I have limited time to be online due to work, family, etc and I prefer to spend it with content that I enjoy. WvW is not that content.

[Mushuchalaka.9437]

I'm not a non wvw player but I definitely don't play it as much as I would like to for most of the same reasons mentioned.

 

I think most have summed it up really well. It really is about the incentive and it really has gotten stale. I too also have found zerging boring after about 15 minutes. there's really no reason to win the match up besides your world staying in higher ranks for better zerg/zerg action.

 

Another player summed it up in chat recently. He called for help at NC and no one came. He was furious and said we used to protect camps/towers. I thought to myself there's really not that big of an incentive to.

 

They definitely need to spice up WVW. It has been highly neglected but can be the endgame that keeps alot of players and can make money if they invest in it. Taking camps/towers can get really boring fast.

 

Perhaps a game mode similar to stronghold on the side maps, where winning and keeping objectives can help spawn some useful npcs to help certain objectives (that can help the main map EBG). The main map should be kept to mostly zerg vs zerg and the importance defending/keeping towers/keeps.

 

It's nice that they made an incentive to level up your rank for the nicer ascended WVW armor skins and legendary armor. However there's nothing in between to keep you going. They need some incentives for 200,500,1000,etc. Something unique only obtained in WVW of course.

 

I also brought this up another thread and will re-paste below:

 

It would be great if they can design a map for more smaller scale fights. I.E., perhaps have objectives where you stand in a square if you're interested and 5 people can start the the escort(or insert objectives). This would also require the enemy to start the objective on their end. Or something dynamic where 3-5 people with some NPCS. Perhaps design maps that are for 5 on 5, 10 on 10, 15 on 15 action for specific objectives.

 

How to stop a zerg from crashing the party? Perhaps have an aura for those who are part of the objective(like agony resist and if you don't have that aura your health will drop fast) if you attack those with the aura. Or a NPC that is very powerful that will attack those who don't have the rights to do the objective. These maps should have smaller queues, perhaps 25 max?, and many objectives can go on at the same time. Perhaps rewards for the main maps(supply drops,etc). But that shouldn't be the only reward.

 

Perhaps give a magic buff for those that participated the previous matchup and the winners of the matchup get bigger buffs. Insert other global rewards, if anyone has some good ideas.

 

They need to make rewards more interesting. I do understand Anet needs to make money. If they can somehow incorporate something one can buy on the gemstore that may enhance a reward from a game mode (wvw). Perhaps a infusion or aura that will enchance wvw specific items. This can apply to pvp/pve specific items too.

 

I think they should start selling emotes/dances that can be earned in specific game modes.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I feel like wvw would appeal to more players if zergs combat dynamics were different. If players in zergs actually battled each other and had to think about thier rotations and defensive strategies it would be a lot more enjoyable for most people. Right now people try wvw and zergs and what they experience is this pirate ship meta garbage mess where everyone hangs back and spams any of their ranged attacks randomly into the blobbed mess for fear that if the even come close to melee range for anything resembling an interesting fight they will get completely destroyed in seconds by scourge/fb aoe spam that covers the whole Zerg and everywhere even close to it in a 360 direction. Both sides push and pull back depending on who has more scourge spamming,so fun lol good job arenanet.

[hugo.4705]

The mode is totally flat and not exciting, we should have mobile weapons, not like golems but bigger and stronger like charr cauldron, lightning cannon, charr tanks, Watchknights... exterminator mark golems welp, WHERE ARE THE BIG GUNS?

Currently it's just catapults doing 1% damages each 20 secs, so welp look at that wall! *pouet* *couick couick*

Holo shield should protect from arrows, it's the goal of a shield nah?

[Ben.2160]

Whilst I primarily am a PVE player (got game in 2015, 18 characters, all 100% central map completion and storied up to the end of POF. Only 1 doing LS4 as it's still in progress). I have got more into WvW especially since the warclaw came out and using my many exp boosters I've gone from rank 134 to 261 in the last two weeks. I did use to go in for the odd daily. And to get the wood chests done for the extra pip it gives the following week but that was it.

 

 

For me there's several issues with WvW and the community.

 

1) Repetitive. Same maps, same objectives, same behaviour, same builds. Over and over. It'll be like only doing say the same 3 PVE maps constantly.

 

2) Higher skilled players - As many WvWer's are dedicated players and know how to play their class/build to every inch they are impossible to fight against. Being

beaten effortlessly in 9 out of 10 fights is just frustrating/disheartening. I hate it when you release hell on another player and you barely get them to like 97% health whilst their attacks to you are pow pow... you're dead! Get good you say? How when you lack the experience and the enemy players are merciless? What is worse is when you get gank(or troll) squads, several mesmers/thieves typically with 1 shot builds or perma evades/invulnerability/blocks. Literally the other night about 8 of us were whooped by two perma evade daredevils. Not one of them got below 60% health either...

 

3) Zergs - either you steamroll them or you get steamrolled. Not to mention lag... laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag. the ground red with AOE circles, the flashy effects ergh! Or if your zerg is not facing another zerg you steam roll into an objective with ease.

 

4) Servers themselves. Being linked about constantly, the bandwagoning, the international servers results in population misbalance. The French, germans and Spanish are very prone to blobbing particularly and if you have no zerg of your own. They will walk all over you or keep you out of their keeps/towers.

 

5) WVW long term players. Moan the mode is boring and/or neglected. A-net does something new. WvW players moan that A-net changed their WvW.

WvW players moan there's no new players. A-net does something to bring in new players. WvW players - wah! There's noobs in here! Get them out of here!

A-net just can't win it seems and I can see just why A-net has not really focused on WVW that much.

 

 

Now it can be a 'fun' experience. Whilst capping something is repetitive. There's still the thrill(and worry) of defenders turning up. But then the defenders can well result in issue 2 occurring. A few times I've killed the guards, had the camp at 90% capture to have a high skilled player from server 3 turn up and kill me and take the objective with ease, thanks to my work. Also there's the thrill/worry of chance encounters whilst traveling. Whilst I do struggle in 1v1's I have only won a few - best being a mithril level player. But the win rate for me is low and very frustrating. Or being able to outrun someone to safety can be a thrill or even catching a high mobility player.

 

So in all there is the thrill of un-expectedness about it but largely it is a repetitive mode that could do with some spicing up.

 

Alliances to stop the population/time balances - imagine having the germans/French/Spanish players mixed with you rather than on their own in great big blobs?

 

Different maps and rotate them! - having just the 2xalpine, EBG & desert borderland is dull. Add new maps and rotated every so often. This includes colours.

Blue desert red alpine etc...

 

 

Different objectives/layouts - not just camps. keeps towers with the largely same layout. Maybe have each one unique. Maybe add multiple levels for a tower, narrow spiral exterior stairs to the lord to aid defenders/hinder attackers. not the same copy and paste designs/layouts. Fair enough people will adapt to new changes and form strategies to defend/capture objectives but at least it will be different each time. Catapulting a wall/ramming a gate and running up a flight of stairs to the lord is not fun. For defenders or attackers. This could make more builds useful for zergs. Soulbeasts/rangers whilst usually seen as useless for zergs could be used to pick off defenders atop towers, or to snipe at attackers from atop of towers.

 

 

That's my ideas, thoughts and issues for WvW.

 

 

 

 

 

[hugo.4705]

Yeah at least they could add new underground map, one taking place in mountains, in ascalon or within an archipelago. After 6 years may know perfectly Eternal Battleground and all of its locations, even its rocks.

 

Since the beginning, the main focus was PvE, they could have alternated between 1 time developing WvW map, the second time 1 Pve maps etc... respecting a cycle.

[Xaiveer.6832]

Wvw doesn't not take advantage of the technologies and ideas offered to pve. All the maps are flat compared to vertically of HOT. Why not add a map where a keep is floating in the air and the only way to it is via updraft or pact airship. Bring in the air skills from Bloodstone Fen fight in the air. Fight on Airship. Repeal the air invasion from the keep ect.. Allow for air invasion and move the champion underground. Try new stuff ect...

[Danikat.8537]

I've been trying to think about the differences between WvW and PvE meta events (which seems to be the PvE activity they're most similar to) - what makes me more willing to do meta events than WvW? I think it really comes down to repetition and a sense of actually achieving something.

 

Take Silverwastes for example, which is _very_ similar to WvW in that you're capturing and then defending a series of forts (and even defending dolyaks which bring supplies to them). Yes you capture a fort, then defend it and bring in supplies to upgrade it, and defend it from further attacks...but if you do that well the map moves on to the next phase where you fight the bosses under each fort - each with their own mechanics which require them to be defeated in different ways. If that goes well you then fight your way up the 3 lanes to defeat the Vinewrath by fighting another 3 unique bosses and then it's finished, you've won! Everyone gets their rewards and a little bit of 'down time' to check out all the other stuff the map has to offer. Yes it will reset soon, but at least there is an end point and then the start of a new game.

 

Compare that to WvW where you capture a camp, use the supply to capture a tower or keep, defend it and the camp/s as supply comes in, defend it from attack, upgrade it, defend it...defend it again (or maybe go to capture something else), re-take a camp...and it just keeps going round and round and round until you have to stop playing for whatever reason. When you come back maybe you've lost everything you've done, maybe you've gained more but you're still only going to get a small section of an ongoing war that just keeps going round and round with no end in sight except for all the progress everyone has made being wiped away once a week when the whole thing resets. There's a brief sense of satisfaction from taking a camp, tower or keep (or Stonemist) but even that gets old eventually.

 

If there was more of a sense of actually achieving something, a reason why taking these points mattered beyond slight changes in a scoreboard, and a sense of building towards something if you're doing well, then it would be more enjoyable instead of feeling like there's no point beyond getting rewards for yourself and (indirectly) the people you're playing with.

 

However I still wouldn't want to do WvW all the time, even then. I very rarely complete a meta event more than once in a row, I'll usually play through to the end then go and do something else and come back later, and I don't do the same events every single day unless I really need something from it. But that could be addressed by giving each map (or each area of the map - like each keep and it's camps) a different 'meta event' so there's some variety and a reason to play on different ones beyond slightly different scenery.

 

However that's what makes me think this is unlikely to ever happen - changes to WvW maps have historically been_ very _badly received. Even now the desert borderlands is almost always the emptiest and I've seen people joke that no one ever plays there unless they can't get into any other map. Same with Edge of the Mists - I've heard that when it was being tested by WvW guilds it got great feedback, especially for the unique mechanics, then it was released and it almost immediately became a WvW dead zone only ever used for PvE karma trains. So I can't imagine adding new mechanics or progression systems to the existing maps, or adding new ones that work that way, would be popular.

[Biff.5312]

I didn't play WvW for years. I recently started and at first didn't like it, but it's growing on me. I think the main obstacle was simply not having a clue what to do. You enter a map and often there's nothing going on that you can easily discern, so you wander around this huge map looking for something to do. Sometimes someone ganks you out of the blue - before you even see them coming you are dead and have to rez waaaay back at the starting point.

Once you get an idea of how things work the improvement is huge, but at first you're sort of a babe in the woods with no real guidance from the game itself about what to do. That's what kept me out for years, because every tentative foray I made was ultimately fruitless. Even once I started playing more regularly, it took a while to figure out the reward system.

[Hoon.1524]

I don't like fights that have 1 person controlling them, people should learn how play the game without having someone saying which buttons to press.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

I tried pretty hard to get into WvW a few years ago, but generally I agree with a lot of the posts above, the zerging/large group combat is the real problem for me. It feels like you're playing as a single unit in a strategy game, but there's no actual strategy - in part because there are no win conditions (I guess the win condition is just: have the most points when the time runs out). I tried roaming, but I either encountered groups that I obviously couldn't beat, or got spiked by permastealth thieves.

 

I don't think there's anything that would attract me back to it though. For me, the combat system and skill system in this game are at their best with very small numbers of players (I find 1-3 is probably optimal, and even 5 is too many). Fights involving large numbers of players just feel (and look) like a mess to me, and in WvW this is exacerbated by the fact that the fights are always unbalanced - my experience was that you either win easily, or have no chance of winning at all, depending on which side happened to have the most players. I have similar feelings about large group events in PvE - I usually enjoy big events like world bosses and the big HoT group events for the spectacle rather than the gameplay, so I tend to do them once and then never go back.

[kratan.4619]

Hate the fact that the commanders I end up following want to run in circles "looking for fights" and not capping objectives. It is a rare venture into WvW when I find people fighting over objectives rather than circle jerking with the other server's zergs. This is why I only go into WvW once every few weeks.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Hoon.1524" said:

> I don't like fights that have 1 person controlling them, people should learn how play the game without having someone saying which buttons to press.

 

That is a highly inaccurate means of describing zerg play, unless you also have an issue with Quarterbacks calling out plays, Center players driving the puck forward, or Catchers prompting specific pitches. WvW zerging is meant to be a team effort, and nothing demonstrates that better then watching a pug squad fighting against an all guild squad; Col. Custer would be shocked at the scale of pwnage.

[Durzlla.6295]

> @"Kyon Sama.8301" said:

> Honestly conceptually I love open world pvp. But what turns me off about WvW is zerging. I already know that is how the meta has been established and we can't change that fact now. But I doubt I'd ever get into WvW as long as zerging is a thing.

 

Pretty much this exactly for me, also defending is pretty much pointless since defenders don’t really have anywhere safe to stand when they’re trying to repel attackers. Etc

 

Also there’s an utter lack for solo and small groups (5 players) to do to actually contribute to WvW game, sure you can roam around and flip some camps or do small skirmishes but the skirmishes are nearly pointless in the grand scheme of things and the camp flipping doesn’t end up doing much when a Zerg will inevitably come barreling through.

 

Imo they should add some PvE objectives around the map that solo players and small groups can do to help bolster the rest of the server with the rewards (maybe something like extra supply or extra guards or something) would also create areas for players to fight over that aren’t explicitly capture circles.

[TwiceDead.1963]

> @"Hoon.1524" said:

> I don't like fights that have 1 person controlling them, people should learn how play the game without having someone saying which buttons to press.

 

If you don't like joining zergs, then Roam. We always need people to cap those camps and kill those reinforcements for the enemy zerg. A zerg can deliver a big punch in one place, but roamers can choke the enemy zergs lifeline if more people DECIDED TO DO IT. It's a call to arms, you godlike sPvP'ers.

 

> @"Durzlla.6295" said:

> Pretty much this exactly for me, also defending is pretty much pointless since defenders don’t really have anywhere safe to stand when they’re trying to repel attackers. Etc

>

> Also there’s an utter lack for solo and small groups (5 players) to do to actually contribute to WvW game, sure you can roam around and flip some camps or do small skirmishes but the skirmishes are nearly pointless in the grand scheme of things and the camp flipping doesn’t end up doing much when a Zerg will inevitably come barreling through.

>

> Imo they should add some PvE objectives around the map that solo players and small groups can do to help bolster the rest of the server with the rewards (maybe something like extra supply or extra guards or something) would also create areas for players to fight over that aren’t explicitly capture circles.

 

The game provides you with Siege Equipment to help you defend against large numbers. 5 Superior Arrowcarts on a tower can pressure a large enemy zerg pretty heavily until reinforcements arrive. If you were expecting to be Legolas on-top of Helms Deep, yeah no that's not gonna work when 30+ are just waiting for you to peek your head out.

 

Havoc groups have a lot more to do than you'd think. I can't count how many times I've been in groups no larger than 4 PPT'ing enemy towers while the enemy zerg is off doing whatever. And if they come back, so what? We did our job. 4 people forced the enemy zerg of 40 to come-a-knocking which provides your side with ample time to bolster defenses or capture something else. If you know there's only one enemy zerg active on their server at a specific time, change maps and steal their shit.

 

Capturing camps and killing dollies is as PvE as it get's and is never difficult. People just got to get over the fear of going deep into enemy territory by their lonesome. If you manage to get to an enemy camp without being detected, odds are you'll flip it before the enemy even reacts.

 

If you make the PvE rewards better than the active contribution rewards to the war effort, then you'll just get an even larger number of people doing buzz-all in the game-mode because people will ALWAYS pick the path of least resistance for their loot.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

[Cerioth.7062]

I play WvW but what keeps turning me away from it is the WvW community.

[Leethe.3514]

To be honest... WvW lacks goals for me to work towards. There is sooo much to do in PvE to keep you busy. I love raiding and t4 fractals and whenever I set foot there I know I might end the evening with something nice that made it worth my while. So even if I work towards far away goals in PvE, which might take a looong time to reach, there is always a good secondary reason to be there and do whatever you are doing. For excample: If I need a bit for my next legendary from fractals, I know that I will gain fractal relics/pristine fractal relics that are useful in so many ways.

 

I find legendary WvW armors to look great, I really want one - it's one of those extremely far away goals to reach, but I have little to nothing to expect on the way there. I have been playing since release. I tried to get into WvW on multiple occasions, but gave up again and again due to boredom. In the end, I just got myself as many gifts of battle as I needed for my legendaries and got a few bits of armor from reward tracks. Personally, I feel like I spent a huuuuge amount of time in wvw, because I got so little out of it when I was there, and I am only rank 208. Do I have any hopes of ever reaching 2000 for the leggy armor ? Hell no, might as well be 20 000, it just seems like a goal I could not possibly reach within the next 5 years of gaming. Perhaps not even if I really tried, but it's so far off that I can't seem to be able to make predictions.

 

 

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

Same thing that turns me off from raids. Anything that "requires" voice clients and carbon copies of the same meta builds is not for me. Also, while I can get by with the fps I get in big PVE metas without lowering graphics, WvW zerg battles kill performance for me.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I was a wvw player but stopped cuz numbers count more then skill. cant zerg bust like the old days, and that's the only reason for me to play wvw.

[Excursion.9752]

Three things really. These are not in any order just a list.

 

Number one no clue what was going on and did not really care to go find out how by any other means than playing the game mode. I know that's my fault but it is a reason.

 

Number two was mobility this has now been taken care of by the warclaw. When you are learning the ropes you die a lot. When you just already died now I have to kill my patience running back to the fight. I understand its part of the punishment for death but when your not a vested wvw player it turns you off like a light switch. So I am one of the ones thankful for the warclaw.

 

Number three toxic people not the community. Being raged on by your team does not encourage people to play it actually does quite the opposite. It makes people leave with a bad taste in the mouth and they may never come back. What goes through peoples mind when ever they think of coming back is that one bad encounter. Regardless if that person is playing or not in the abused persons mind they are there 24/7 and it just deters them from coming back.

 

I since have got over all of that in the past two weeks and I have really grown to enjoy the game mode. I was thinking the other day anet puts their time and money were the people are playing / paying. Now they have monetized two things for wvw recently with the warclaw skins and the new Armistice Bastion Pass. I believe this may be a push for new things to come for wvw. So they are getting the paying portion down now we just need to keep people playing the game mode.

 

Here is my PSA I beg the awesome vets to take these new players under their wing and show them the ropes and extend a helping hand to this new generation wvw players. Sure more players equals longer ques but its a small price to pay for some new content. Maybe I'm wrong about the updates but its worth a try in my book.

[TexZero.7910]

I dislike the very static nature of sieges.

 

I've tried my hand at WvW many times, enjoyed it for a good while as well. That being said sieges suck and there's actually very little strategic choice open to players in that regard. Every server knows "placement" and the "easiest" breach spots which leads to counter siege walls.

 

You're likely to ask what i'd do to fix this and it's simple in nature but probably far too complex for Anet's servers to handle and that's to change how walls function. Ideally i'd like to see all walls be vulnerable to attack and destructible at various sizes. I'd also like to see fixed sieges pieces (Cannons and Mortars) removed and be made deployables with a decay timer so that sieges have choices and consequences.

 

TL;DR more strategy and complex interactions for Siege warfare.