Hey Non WvWers, what turns you off about WvW?

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

Well, I play mainly WvW and let me tell you why: in any game, open world PvP is my go-to. In this game we get WvW so it's good enough.

 

But if you want to know why some people go WvW/PvP and some stay in PvE, it's actually very simple: some people have no competitive spirit. Not saying that in a bad way of course, just some people have 0 interest in competing with each other, maybe they find it stressful or whatever.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"kratan.4619" said:

> Hate the fact that the commanders I end up following want to run in circles "looking for fights" and not capping objectives. It is a rare venture into WvW when I find people fighting over objectives rather than circle jerking with the other server's zergs. This is why I only go into WvW once every few weeks.

 

That bothers me too. Luckily on my server (Desolation) I see a mix of commanders, so it's usually just a matter of map hopping or coming back another night to find one who is actually playing actively, but it is annoying to join a map, join a squad, run out to meet them and then find they're just going in circles attacking another zerg for absolutely no reason.

 

I know some people say you get more rewards overall that way than by taking and defending objectives, but it makes it feel even more pointless. It's like the PvE grinding you'd do in other MMOs to level up, but with targets that sometimes move a bit more.

[AliamRationem.5172]

The two main reasons I never enjoyed wvw are the time wasted walking around the map to reach objectives and/or find fights. The warclaw has resolved this issue for me.

 

The other is being unable to just form a group and go. So few people just happen to be on my server. If I could just play the way i do in other game modes it would feel more accessible.

[Balsa.3951]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> Well, I play mainly WvW and let me tell you why: in any game, open world PvP is my go-to. In this game we get WvW so it's good enough.

>

> But if you want to know why some people go WvW/PvP and some stay in PvE, it's actually very simple: some people have no competitive spirit. Not saying that in a bad way of course, just some people have 0 interest in competing with each other, maybe they find it stressful or whatever.

 

But some go spvp and hate wvw I think it’s more than about competitive

[Hoon.1524]

Another thing that ticks me off about WvW is that I got kicked from a zerg for playing a ranger/druid... is this normal or was the kicker just douchey? Spotter, glyphs etc. I was told "It should be obvious by now" and... nope, genuinely didn't know or how or why I should know. Are support classes really that bad in WvW?

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

 

You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

[Zet.9130]

I don't much care for WvW. That said I usually do 2 or 3 dailies there...exactly as if it was a PvE experience! Kill a Vet, buy 3 catapults, kill a guard cap the spot, kill 5 guards, stand on a shrine till it's done and capture 2 camps and leave. I've learned to check the clock to see if I'm 2-3 mins from next reward and sort inventory til it hits. The rewards I care about are obi shards and clovers and other rewards are the usual stream of kitten & kitten & blues and green. /meh I do the dailies because they are quicker than doing 5 PvE events and more palatable than running in circles with a slimy crab.

 

Why don't I much care for WvW?

 

1. Not fun.

a. No sense of identity. My server was swallowed by another - I pay little attention to servers these days.

b. No sense of accomplishment. Oh we took the keep just to take it tomorrow. Talk about spending life rolling a boulder up the hill.

 

2. Not rewarding -

a. IMO Anet game wide reward system was a broken concept. It's only redeeming quality was that it was easy for Anet to manage and it appears that they have dropped that ball.

b. The WvW armor is really not to my taste - belongs in a Mardi Gra parade. I doubt multiple styles of reward armor is affordable at this point.

c. I started counting the currencies that we have in WvW and stopped - enough said.

 

I'd talk about the issues with zergs but it just seems inherent to WvW and I've no solution.

 

 

done

[sorudo.9054]

it's just a PvP arena with some PvE elements in it, i don't like PvP so no matter what they do it's a no go for me.

[Dami.5046]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

>

> You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

 

Another reason to dislike WvW.

Right there.

Right Right there.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

>

> You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

 

But see I was called a pve noob and was then removed and told to play a real class so....

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

> >

> > You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

>

> But see I was called a pve noob and was then removed and told to play a real class so....

 

Ahh, you didnt say that. They were jerks no doubt about it then. Ideally you should have been given some constructive input as to how to contribute if you wished to participate on someone's team. Without the hostility.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"Zet.9130" said:

> b. No sense of accomplishment. Oh we took the keep just to take it tomorrow. Talk about spending life rolling a boulder up the hill.

This, as well. In addition to my hate for zergs, the lack of any impact this all struggle brings to world of Tyria makes it too abstract to me. I don't like sports, in general, they seem too abstract to me as well :) Like a surrogate of a good ol' fight. I like good fight :) So if my team wins in WvW, it must really seem like we won something tangible. Like, we got more powerful and influential in this virtual world. And that's what PvP fails to provide. Except form some titles and a few armor sets you only can get in PvP there is nothing which would make you stand out for everybody you meet on the street.

 

It would be nice to have much more unique skins only available to top performing teams/players, and only until they keep performing well. Also for some of those skins to be of limited access, so one guild could "seize" the right of wearing them from another by beating them in WvW for some time. Also would be nice if the top performing players would be allowed to affect some parts of the world. Like, would be allowed to trigger some events on will, choose which activity will be available on certain days, select one item Anet will have to put on sales at the closest opportunity - things like that. The idea is to give them a little bit of power in the world, even if it's mostly laughably small bit.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

I have enjoyed being in WvW these last 2 weeks and enjoyed contributing to some good battles. What i don't enjoy is the constant berating of others who don't know the ropes yet. I've said it before, if the intent is to grow the community stop driving players away and then go crying to Anet the mode is dead lol! If someone makes a mistake, tell them and explain why it was a problem, don't spend the next 15 minutes trashing them over and over again and expect them to want to stick around.

 

[Narcemus.1348]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but I find it repetitive. Probably because I don't get into the social aspect of things. I don't find PvE as repetitive because I am given more of an incentive through story and lore. WvW just doesn't have much story to keep me interested, just capture a keep and move on to the next.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Dami.5046" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

> >

> > You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

>

> Another reason to dislike WvW.

> Right there.

> Right Right there.

 

I honestly dont understand this point. Joining a team effort should involve trying to fit into the team. If I join a pick up basketball game I dont put on a baseball catcher's mask and glove and park myself next to the hoop expecting my team to be happy about it.

[Zexanima.7851]

As someone who plays WvW and likes roaming/havoc(salty ranger here), it's the mindset of the community. Meta this and meta that, kitten everything that doesn't fart boons and sneeze AoE. Despite what people seem to think, WvW is NOT a competitive mode. The only one it can be said is slightly competitive for is someone who commands every day as they are the only people who can have an impact on the outcome of the things. Everyone else is just fodder and are only as impactful as their tag is smart. (not entirely true, I think that good scouts that provide intel for their team are very valuable)

 

Run around and capture stuff, kill people, spam siege disablers, ect. is the most your average non-commander player can hope for and that's fun enough for me. I guess you could also mindlessly follow an icon on your map and smack your face on your keyboard, if you're into that sorta thing.

 

I got more kills than I died today and I had a blast? That's a win in my book.

[Dami.5046]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Dami.5046" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

> > >

> > > You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

> >

> > Another reason to dislike WvW.

> > Right there.

> > Right Right there.

>

> I honestly dont understand this point. Joining a team effort should involve trying to fit into the team. If I join a pick up basketball game I dont put on a baseball catcher's mask and glove and park myself next to the hoop expecting my team to be happy about it.

 

and you never will.

nevermind, eh?

[Meestercat.2748]

My main reason is that it’s not as tactical as I was expecting it to be. I’d imagined that you’d have multiple squads carrying out specific tasks all for a common aim. Instead it’s the odd Zerg bashing their heads against a brick wall (literally or figuratively) and occasional solo players having seemingly no real impact on anything.

[Aaralyna.3104]

What turns me off has actually more to do with some QoL.

 

Pve > you have a gear set and slots on your character (pve works based on your items)

PvP > your gear does not influence... You could technically go without.

WvW > you have a gear set and slots on your character (wvw works based on your items)

 

Now as a PvE player I only have storage on my character for 1 set of gear. Which leaves me only 2 options.

 

1) Play wvw on my pve gears and build (I am mainly pve player and I don't like swapping everything around)

2) Store a second set in my inventory, but that means dragging every single item over every time and less space in inventory (and still issue of no build save for easy swaps)

 

So if we had 2 full gears/weapons slots and build templates (so I can save 2 different builds), it would be a lot easier to just hop into wvw randomly (and without annoying wvw vets for not using pve builds and items).

[LadyRhonwyn.2501]

> @"Dreamy Lu.3865" said:

> I know the answer for 3 of my friends, so I can share it for them (they are not active on this forum).

> - For 2 of them: They did not even started it ever (playing game since beta). They are simply PvE players with zero interest in WvW globally. They don't want to play against real players and if it is for fight against NPCs, they find PvE more interesting and varied. The idea to capture a camp, tower and such, escort dolyaks or use sieges on repeat in always the same maps does not interest them.

> - For 1 of them: He made several tentatives. He found it boring if played the casual way, stressful and a bother if played more seriously, as in globally no fun.

>

> For all 3 of them, globally in game, the idea to have to play a specific class with specific build, learning a skills rotation and taking care of performances, is seen as a work, taking off their fun. They don't want that. They want to take it easy, equip whatever they want and play their own way. That's why they don't do WvW, but also don't do raid and fractals above 25.

>

This kind of sums it up for me as well. Especially learning a specific class, using a specific skill rotation, trying to max my output doesn't sound like fun at all. I do that daily at work already (and I do love my work!) I play to relax, not to be annoyed or do other stressful things.

 

I do twaddle in there once in a while, I don't mind zergs (it's the only way I can stay alive long enough :p) but after being killed once or twice and then trying to get back into the melee but failing because I always will get killed by one or two foes on my way back to the group, will make me leave WvW very fast again.

 

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> What turns me off has actually more to do with some QoL.

>

> Pve > you have a gear set and slots on your character (pve works based on your items)

> PvP > your gear does not influence... You could technically go without.

> WvW > you have a gear set and slots on your character (wvw works based on your items)

>

> Now as a PvE player I only have storage on my character for 1 set of gear. Which leaves me only 2 options.

>

> 1) Play wvw on my pve gears and build (I am mainly pve player and I don't like swapping everything around)

> 2) Store a second set in my inventory, but that means dragging every single item over every time and less space in inventory (and still issue of no build save for easy swaps)

>

> So if we had 2 full gears/weapons slots and build templates (so I can save 2 different builds), it would be a lot easier to just hop into wvw randomly (and without annoying wvw vets for not using pve builds and items).

 

It's a tricky thing. In sPVP you don't actually equip gear, but use an amulet system, which means changing your gear/build has zero cost associated with it. WvW is identical to PvE in that if you want to change your build, you need new gear, runes, sigils, etc, and can be very expensive. And while some in WvW have expressed a desire for WvW to adopt the amulet system of sPvP, many others oppose that direction because it prevents you from tinkering with different stat combinations, as well as it would invalidate all the investment players have already made in their gear.

 

When I first started WvW I was using my PvE character (lolranger), and I kept telling myself that I was going to have to just live with the fact I was using PvE gear because, like you, I wasn't about to build a 2nd set of gear. That had disastrous results lol.

 

Eventually I discovered that Hammer Revenant is meta for zerging, and the gear is almost identical to PvE in that a backline Rev wears zerk gear with scholar runes, with maybe some marauder trinkets. I grabbed a hammer and gave it a go, and now, I don't play my Rev in PvE at all, ever.

 

Best advice I can offer is to dedicate a character to the game mode. You could try to cheese it by just getting a 2nd set of accessories, but really, WvW players use so many things that a PvE build wouldn't use, such as specific runes (pack, tormenting, vampirism, sanctuary) and sigils (cleansing, energy) that if you try to mix/mash PvE/WvW gear, you'll end up underperforming.

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"Dami.5046" said:

> The people.

> Moving on, with the fact we have no idea how long this game has, people still insist on being obnoxious. Be it on chat or here. The fear of 'failure' is extreme.

> The new mount certainly showed this.

>

 

I was going to say something along those lines, and I actually do WvW (not as super often as many, but enough) and many of the issues are with the people.

1. Commanders who don't communicate with their zerg and suddenly waypoint away or want to talk to their zerg exclusively with teamspeak

2. Commanders who don't wait for their tail, add the commander using a mount to this and these are even more frustrating. It sucks to fall behind and get picked off by the enemy. New players without mounts will have this happen even more often.

3. Team chat where people just constantly insult each other for not going to X location or for going to X location too soon. Or not even giving reasons and just filling the chat with insults.

4. People who are just way too intense and serious about WvW in general.

 

That said I've also met some cool people in WvW. People who are relaxed and chill about the game.

 

A lot of people complain and say they don't like the big zergs but I've always found them kind of fun (roaming is also fun) since it makes me feel like I am a part of something. The large ZvZ battles can be rather intense and exciting. Although I will say I have found them a little less enjoyable since scourges became a thing.

 

I suppose if someone wants open world PvP and imagines it to be "playing the game normally but people can PvP as well" then yea, the zergs aren't going to be what they want. But that's not what WvW is or was intended to be. WvW is a big three-way war. You don't go to the front lines of war to quest for npcs and occasionally bump into someone and fighting them. You go there to fight and win. You can be the main army by joining a zerg, or you can be a small strike party of roamers interrupting the enemy's supply lines and distracting the enemy armies.

 

That said, a lot of WvW is finding a server that works for you. Want big zergs? Find out which server has the most activity during times you would be playing. Want to do small groups or solo roaming. You'll want a server that is less active during your play times.

[Aaralyna.3104]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> > What turns me off has actually more to do with some QoL.

> >

> > Pve > you have a gear set and slots on your character (pve works based on your items)

> > PvP > your gear does not influence... You could technically go without.

> > WvW > you have a gear set and slots on your character (wvw works based on your items)

> >

> > Now as a PvE player I only have storage on my character for 1 set of gear. Which leaves me only 2 options.

> >

> > 1) Play wvw on my pve gears and build (I am mainly pve player and I don't like swapping everything around)

> > 2) Store a second set in my inventory, but that means dragging every single item over every time and less space in inventory (and still issue of no build save for easy swaps)

> >

> > So if we had 2 full gears/weapons slots and build templates (so I can save 2 different builds), it would be a lot easier to just hop into wvw randomly (and without annoying wvw vets for not using pve builds and items).

>

> It's a tricky thing. In sPVP you don't actually equip gear, but use an amulet system, which means changing your gear/build has zero cost associated with it. WvW is identical to PvE in that if you want to change your build, you need new gear, runes, sigils, etc, and can be very expensive. And while some in WvW have expressed a desire for WvW to adopt the amulet system of sPvP, many others oppose that direction because it prevents you from tinkering with different stat combinations, as well as it would invalidate all the investment players have already made in their gear.

>

> When I first started WvW I was using my PvE character (lolranger), and I kept telling myself that I was going to have to just live with the fact I was using PvE gear because, like you, I wasn't about to build a 2nd set of gear. That had disastrous results lol.

>

> Eventually I discovered that Hammer Revenant is meta for zerging, and the gear is almost identical to PvE in that a backline Rev wears zerk gear with scholar runes, with maybe some marauder trinkets. I grabbed a hammer and gave it a go, and now, I don't play my Rev in PvE at all, ever.

>

> Best advice I can offer is to dedicate a character to the game mode. You could try to cheese it by just getting a 2nd set of accessories, but really, WvW players use so many things that a PvE build wouldn't use, such as specific runes (pack, tormenting, vampirism, sanctuary) and sigils (cleansing, energy) that if you try to mix/mash PvE/WvW gear, you'll end up underperforming.

 

Yes thats exactly the point. I don't mind getting the gear for wvw but i don't like to clutter my backpack with 2 gears/weapons/accessories sets (and the on the fly build changing, if something saves settings so I can swap easily that is insta fix). I know theres ppl that use another character for this but I don't really prefer to make 1 toon dedicated to wvw. I like the versitality of using anything I want at any given moment.

 

This whole thing would be fixed if:

 

- we have a 2nd gear slot for our whole build (weapons/trinkets/armor). So you can equip both pve as wvw equipment and just swap by the click of 1 button (other games have this)

- we get some build template (so we can save up to 2 builds). I.e 1 build saving is the pve setup and 2nd build saving is the wvw setup.

 

The fact that wvw needs gears unlike spvp is all fine with me. It doesn't need an amulet system.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Dami.5046" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Dami.5046" said:

> > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > > Some new rewards came out a while ago with warbringer etc. I loved it so I jumped in and got kicked out of squads I was trying to play with for being the wrong class. The group wasnt even full yet I was kicked. That really turns me off when you are snubbed as a pve noob. Like ok you dont want me.... sorry I wasted your time... I'll just leave then and you will be left with the small community you have.

> > > >

> > > > You werent being snubbed as a pve noob, you were removed f4om squad for playing a class or build that is an actual detriment to the group.

> > >

> > > Another reason to dislike WvW.

> > > Right there.

> > > Right Right there.

> >

> > I honestly dont understand this point. Joining a team effort should involve trying to fit into the team. If I join a pick up basketball game I dont put on a baseball catcher's mask and glove and park myself next to the hoop expecting my team to be happy about it.

>

> and you never will.

> nevermind, eh?

 

I tend to prefer to try to avoid being selfish and put others before myself in a group environment. You are right, I never will truly understand the mindset that that "I" am the center of everything and that everyone else should sacrifice their experience so that the world can revolve around "me."

[Kaliwenda.3428]

> @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:

> I have enjoyed being in WvW these last 2 weeks and enjoyed contributing to some good battles. What i don't enjoy is the constant berating of others who don't know the ropes yet. I've said it before, if the intent is to grow the community stop driving players away and then go crying to Anet the mode is dead lol! If someone makes a mistake, tell them and explain why it was a problem, don't spend the next 15 minutes trashing them over and over again and expect them to want to stick around.

>

 

I've enjoyed it very much too, and I've seen improvement in my understanding of what to do/map layouts/reward structure. I haven't been made to feel bad for not being on a preferred class, there were a few comments here and there but I just keep plugging away and coming back as often as I can to participate. It sounds like I've been lucky that way, and I agree that trashing new people who just need to learn their way around is not the way to attract people to WvW.