Please add dueling hubs

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Tiviana.2650" said:

 

> I dont see how anyone can play a game and lock themselves into one mode, how boring. When i play i try to get a little of every game mode in. Because its fun to do different things everyday instead of running the same path over and over.

 

Then we have a disconnect. What one person finds boring, another may find entertaining.

 

I'm not against dueling per se; rather, I do not want to see it in OPvE. Currently, there are areas designed for dueling. Apparently, they aren't what you want -- I don't know as I don't go into those areas of GW2 (I find beating up on other players boring). Now, if you would like to advocate for the developers to create an entirely new dueling only area, that is not in OPvE, then I wouldn't be against the idea in principle. I would only question if the support for such an area is high enough to justify developer time and resources when there are so many other things in GW2 that affect a larger section of the player base that would better benefit from their attention.

 

>Deciding what content to put in only on one type of gameplay is a bad idea.

Entirely your opinion.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"LaFurion.3167" said:

> > @"yoni.7015" said:

> > There is an arena in the mists and there is also an arena in the guild halls.

>

> People keep saying that but nobody goes to mists to duel and it's so lame. I want to fight in Tyria where it looks cool and not have to be in party with someone and go to the trouble of going into pvp lobby etc.. same with guild halls. Only guildies zzz

 

I’m sure you already read the dev quote provided by @"Illconceived Was Na.9781", but I have a question for you...

 

You state that nobody uses the current areas for dueling, so why do you want the devs to waste time and money creating more places to duel when nobody really uses the areas the devs already spent time and money creating?

[Aaralyna.3104]

We already have duelling places:

 

In PvE ones:

 

- Sun's Refuge (this is technically in open world yet seperated for ppl not interested by it)

- Costume Brawl (anywhere you like)

- Guild Hall arena

 

In PvP ones:

 

- WvW (you can technically duel here)

- Custom servers (just make your own match on map of choice, rarely others hop in your match or make a private server)

- Mists Arena

- Armstice Bastion Hub Arena

 

Next to that you may find an "empty / almost empty" map in festivals with pvp-ish content (Wintersday, Festival of Four Winds, Lunar Festival). Same with activities from LA (like crab toss and the likes).

 

Theres plenty of options to fullfill your need to duel pvp.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> We already have duelling places:

>

> In PvE ones:

>

> - Sun's Refuge (this is technically in open world yet seperated for ppl not interested by it)

> - Costume Brawl (anywhere you like)

> - Guild Hall arena

>

> In PvP ones:

>

> - WvW (you can technically duel here)

> - Custom servers (just make your own match on map of choice, rarely others hop in your match or make a private server)

> - Mists Arena

> - Armstice Bastion Hub Arena

>

> Next to that you may find an "empty / almost empty" map in festivals with pvp-ish content (Wintersday, Festival of Four Winds, Lunar Festival). Same with activities from LA (like crab toss and the likes).

>

> Theres plenty of options to fullfill your need to duel pvp.

 

Requisite devil's advocate reply:

* PvE rule sets apply in Sun's Refuge, Guild Halls

* Transformed fights aren't about demonstrating prowess with the builds everyone practices with (Costume Brawl, Festival content, Activities)

* It's not possible to avoid interruption in WvW, Armistice Bastion Hub, & Mists Arena

* Custom arenas require leaving the map, thus defeating the purpose of "killing time by killing others."

 

I'm sympathetic to the first three objections: the form & ruleset is important to the sort of dueling for which proponents are asking. The fourth... I don't find that compelling (and it appears that ANet doesn't either).

 

Personally I think the pro-duelers would have a stronger case if they could actually show that (a) a lot of people already duel which means that (b) a lot of people would participate if it were added to the game. I think the argument that "no one uses PvP arenas for dueling" weakens their argument: it makes it sound like even proponents think it's a very niche pastime for a tiny fraction of players (regardless of their preferred game mode).

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Requisite devil's advocate reply:

> * PvE rule sets apply in Sun's Refuge, Guild Halls

They'd apply in pve duel arenas as well.

 

> * Custom arenas require leaving the map, thus defeating the purpose of "killing time by killing others."

Duel arenas would exist in few specific places only as well, so the same would apply. And Guild Hall has the advantage of returning you back to the spot you entered it from so it is even better in that regard than what OP is asking for.

 

> Personally I think the pro-duelers would have a stronger case if they could actually show that (a) a lot of people already duel which means that (b) a lot of people would participate if it were added to the game. I think the argument that "no one uses PvP arenas for dueling" weakens their argument: it makes it sound like even proponents think it's a very niche pastime for a tiny fraction of players (regardless of their preferred game mode).

Agreed. Such an argument definitely doesn't help the duelers' case.

 

 

[Aaralyna.3104]

Exactly... But I have a feeling these topics are not at all about duelling for fun, but instead all about get rewards/ranks in duel form ranked pvp with pvp skills. So only your skills depend on the outcome and not some strange random attached to you... And all that in a pvp map without queue nor others interfering into duels. Basically á la gauntlet but with a plethora of arena's so pll don't have to wait long for ppl to finish... Especially since any other form already exists as explained earlier. Duelling would always have a timer and arena or it becomes mass pvp (basically wvw), like in games with a pvp toggle in open world.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> Exactly... But I have a feeling these topics are not at all about duelling for fun,

I don't think it matters what motivates anyone offering a suggestion, whether they are being sincere or disingenuous or fooling themselves about their reasons. A good idea can be promoted by anyone. And it's equally moot whether the community agrees that this is good for the game. ANet's already given it some thought and rejected it as unviable for the foreseeable future.

 

I'm fine if duelers want to keep updating the old threads every six months, just to make sure ANet hasn't forgotten (I doubt very much if they have; it's such an obvious option). I just think folks should take time to understand why non-PvPers can reasonably dislike the concept and ANet's reasons for deciding that it's not coming to _this game_ "soon," if ever.

[Blude.6812]

Waste of limited resources and $$$$.. to address the personal desires of the OP negatively effects other players that don't want dueling by taken the limited resources away from what is really needed to address issues with the game. (As has reflected in the many many many......... threads and posts over the years.) As noted there are places one can go to duel

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> Seriously stop saying theres one in the mists. The mists is ugly and has a bad atmosphere.

 

But there is though, and they're not ugly.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Asura_Arena

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courtyard

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hall_of_the_Mists

 

You can add the basic maps as a custom to duel in just the same, you can't say every single map is ugly for the purpose of a duel and if you are well... hm. Good luck.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> > Exactly... But I have a feeling these topics are not at all about duelling for fun,

> I don't think it matters what motivates anyone offering a suggestion, whether they are being sincere or disingenuous or fooling themselves about their reasons. A good idea can be promoted by anyone. And it's equally moot whether the community agrees that this is good for the game. ANet's already given it some thought and rejected it as unviable for the foreseeable future.

>

> I'm fine if duelers want to keep updating the old threads every six months, just to make sure ANet hasn't forgotten (I doubt very much if they have; it's such an obvious option). I just think folks should take time to understand why non-PvPers can reasonably dislike the concept and ANet's reasons for deciding that it's not coming to _this game_ "soon," if ever.

 

Aside from the "limited resources" complaint (which comes up as a counter to literally every suggestion ever made!), I don't understand why some players harbor such negative views of dueling. It seems to me that if you don't wish to participate, nobody is forcing you to it. Am I missing something?

 

Perhaps I lack perspective? I'm not the sort of player who gets upset about losing a fight. In fact, while I enjoy winning fights, it's only the most challenging opponents I encounter while roaming that I seek out for a duel.

 

For instance, I met a new dueling buddy just yesterday. He plays the same class I do and we seem to be about as equal in skill as it's possible to be. We've gone pretty much dead even 50/50 split in duels and one of them lasted so long my participation started to degrade and dropped all the way from T6 down to T3 before it ended! When it was over we were both laughing about it because our eyes were literally burning with tears running down our faces from not blinking for so long! Best duel ever!

 

That's what I'm looking for in a duel. It's all about finding those good opponents who really challenge you. Would I like to have a better way to facilitate doing that? Yes, I would! So I don't really understand why some people seem so against the idea of even having it in proper form (resource considerations aside).

 

 

[Chay.7852]

Meanwhile on reddit (not the gw2 reddit - the mmo reddit though)

[https://reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/b9gbky/are_pve_mmos_dying_no_more_space_for_pve_in_mmos/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/b9gbky/are_pve_mmos_dying_no_more_space_for_pve_in_mmos/ "https://reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/b9gbk/are_pve_mmos_dying_no_more_space_for_pve_in_mmos/")

 

There are many interesting comments but there's one that nailed it (imo):

"80% of all mmorpg's are PvE 10% role players 10% pvp and out of those 10% PvP 8% are cash shop warriors and chase everyone away. **Just remember PvE built mmorpg's and PvP is killing them now." **

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> Aside from the "limited resources" complaint (which comes up as a counter to literally every suggestion ever made!), I don't understand why some players harbor such negative views of dueling. It seems to me that if you don't wish to participate, nobody is forcing you to it. Am I missing something?

Yes. You're missing practically the whole history of duelling in all those other MMO games that do have it.

 

You seem to be genuinely interested in duelling, and in duelling against other people like you. The problem is, as far as duelers go, you are in a minority. A lot of players that want that option (or that use that option in games where it does exist) are not like that. They are there to show off against others, and in front of others, _whether those others want it or not_. And, unfortunately, it's always the most visible group of players, and a very disruptive one.

 

Notice, how the players that do want genuine duels for challenge and fun are far more likely to be already using the options this game currently offers to them. Notice, how the group of players that want specifically pve duels (in any form) is very tiny to start with. If we consider all this, the question appears - do we really want to introduce an element that historically is known to be significantly disruptive and generate a lot of troubles, in order to satisfy a small number of people, of whom those that could really use that feature well are already quite covered by what's already in the game?

 

My opinion is that no, the cost for it is way, way too big for too small of a gain. And that's even _before_ considering how much resources it would cost to develop.

 

 

 

[phs.6089]

1. I would be against dueling in OW, flags, duel invitation spam etc.

2. I wouldn't mind dueling arenas, there are enough room on maps with drunken norns and grumpy charrs, where this will fit very well

3. Arena, 2 players enter, free of outside heals and boons. 1 walks away

4. All those sun refuge, private arena etc are just lack of casual, friendly duels with 'gf' on end

5. Have you seen any LFG 'come duel me in my sus refuge'(doesn't this include tedious upgrades?) ? I haven't, You know why? Because it's dumb, same goes to PvP private arenas

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > Aside from the "limited resources" complaint (which comes up as a counter to literally every suggestion ever made!), I don't understand why some players harbor such negative views of dueling. It seems to me that if you don't wish to participate, nobody is forcing you to it. Am I missing something?

> Yes. You're missing practically the whole history of duelling in all those other MMO games that do have it.

>

> You seem to be genuinely interested in duelling, and in duelling against other people like you. The problem is, as far as duelers go, you are in a minority. A lot of players that want that option (or that use that option in games where it does exist) are not like that. They are there to show off against others, and in front of others, _whether those others want it or not_. And, unfortunately, it's always the most visible group of players, and a very disruptive one.

>

> Notice, how the players that do want genuine duels for challenge and fun are far more likely to be already using the options this game currently offers to them. Notice, how the group of players that want specifically pve duels (in any form) is very tiny to start with. If we consider all this, the question appears - do we really want to introduce an element that historically is known to be significantly disruptive and generate a lot of troubles, in order to satisfy a small number of people, of whom those that could really use that feature well are already quite covered by what's already in the game?

>

> My opinion is that no, the cost for it is way, way too big for too small of a gain. And that's even _before_ considering how much resources it would cost to develop.

>

>

>

 

Again, resource considerations aside, couldn't the issues with dueling be mitigated by design?

 

For instance, a flag that defaults to "off". Until you toggle it on, other players can't offer to duel you. No annoying confirmation dialogue boxes popping up every time you walk past. And if someone is being obnoxious, block them just like you do now.

 

 

[Orion Templar.4589]

I know the arena in Armistice Bastion cannot prevent bystanders from interrupting, however I have witnessed people using it for dueling with great success, and they were apparently having a lot of fun. I watched while a group of 5 or 6 players gathered around the edges of that arena and took turns one at a time dueling. They'd go in, /bow to each other, and then usually the winner would stay in to face the next challenger. It actually made me go up to the arena seating area and watch for a while.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> > > Exactly... But I have a feeling these topics are not at all about duelling for fun,

> > I don't think it matters what motivates anyone offering a suggestion, whether they are being sincere or disingenuous or fooling themselves about their reasons. A good idea can be promoted by anyone. And it's equally moot whether the community agrees that this is good for the game. ANet's already given it some thought and rejected it as unviable for the foreseeable future.

> >

> > I'm fine if duelers want to keep updating the old threads every six months, just to make sure ANet hasn't forgotten (I doubt very much if they have; it's such an obvious option). I just think folks should take time to understand why non-PvPers can reasonably dislike the concept and ANet's reasons for deciding that it's not coming to _this game_ "soon," if ever.

>

> Aside from the "limited resources" complaint (which comes up as a counter to literally every suggestion ever made!),

I think you'll find that it doesn't always.

 

> I don't understand why some players harbor such negative views of dueling.

People have explained it quite clearly. The existence of dueling changes the atmosphere, regardless of whether it's optional.

 

> It seems to me that if you don't wish to participate, nobody is forcing you to it. Am I missing something?

In other communities with optional open world dueling, people who don't want to duel feel that they have to deal with people who do. Discussions about builds devolve to people saying, "duel me or give up." The effects are sometimes subtle and sometimes not.

 

>

> Perhaps I lack perspective?

It's a pretty common human foible: it's hard to see things from the point of view of someone who has different priorities. It's hard to have a productive conversation when people aren't starting with the same set of facts.

 

> I'm not the sort of player who gets upset about losing a fight.

And a lot of PvE-only players are the sort who get uncomfortable with the idea of fighting other players altogether.

 

> In fact, while I enjoy winning fights, it's only the most challenging opponents I encounter while roaming that I seek out for a duel.

Great, that's honorable. The problem is that there are tons of people out there that look for easy fights; they'd be in the same game.

 

Or as Frank Gallop once sang about the 142nd fastest gun in the West...

> A hundred and forty-one could draw faster than he

> But Irving was looking for one forty-three

 

[DeanBB.4268]

There isn't dueling in-game right now, yet when I've been in WvW I've been hassled by players who follow me around and pester me endlessly to duel them. And all I wanna do is cap a few things for a daily, usually. So no, I don't want this added to PvE/open world.

[Jermoe Morrow.9501]

> @"LaFurion.3167" said:

> > @"yoni.7015" said:

> > There are always people fighting in the arena in the mists

>

> Yes but you get + 2 every 3 seconds and it's not the same. Even the pvp lobby looks so stale and dark and gloomy. Wouldn't you much rather fight somebody in Tyria? Imagine fighting on that plateu in desert highlands!!

 

Did you know you can costume brawl anywhere in Tyria?

 

One of my most memorable fights ever was against my bro at the top of that tower of nightmares on the little platform next to final instance. I actually killed him with a costume brawl skill when I sent him flying off the platform. Good times.

 

And lets be realistic here: Costume brawls look a hell of a lot more impressive than "real" fighting. I mean, you get a crown over your head for being good! Nobody knows whats really going on in a duel from the outside, you're just dancing in fancy color effects while numbers only you can see appear. Costume brawl skills are obvious and have nice sound effects.

 

> @"Phineas Drayke.6381" said:

> Nah, I'm still waiting for my bar brawl mini game...

 

Aren't we all? Also waiting for caudickus to finish up that party at the shooting gallery...

[Blude.6812]

Time to let the topic die, quit responding to the OP. No matter what anyone who disagrees says the OP will stick to his misguided opinion. (Ditto for all the recurring fishing and housing requests that have been dismissed)

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > There isn't dueling in-game right now, yet when I've been in WvW I've been hassled by players who follow me around and pester me endlessly to duel them. And all I wanna do is cap a few things for a daily, usually. So no, I don't want this added to PvE/open world.

>

> Oh wow, you go to pvp zone and wish no one to pvp you? The logic is undeniable.

Fair enough. Don't you think though that the logic of going into a PvE zone and wanting to PvP there is pretty much on the same level?

 

[phs.6089]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > > There isn't dueling in-game right now, yet when I've been in WvW I've been hassled by players who follow me around and pester me endlessly to duel them. And all I wanna do is cap a few things for a daily, usually. So no, I don't want this added to PvE/open world.

> >

> > Oh wow, you go to pvp zone and wish no one to pvp you? The logic is undeniable.

> Fair enough. Don't you think though that the logic of going into a PvE zone and wanting to PvP there is pretty much on the same level?

>

 

Hence I mentions that I would be against duels, flags in Open world unless its a specially designated areas like arenas, can be very much look good with drunken norns and grumpy chars standing around, drinking and talking of life. People that want socialize and get friendly duels is pretty much biggest social aspect of any MMO in my experience. Those that don't want to see/participate don't have to go to this areas. I mean how often one bypasses all those norn and char hubs?

[sephiroth.4217]

 

 

It was suggested a long time ago that there should be an instanced area in Divinities Reach that players could enter for duels or free for all area for players in PvE gear to go wonkers on each other but even then this would apparently be too disruptive to immersion and game play for everyone else.

 

6 years of people asking, its not going to happen.

 

Your best bet is to get a tonne of gold together to build an arena for guild halls, or to use the restrictions of the mists FFA arena.

 

The other option is to pay gems for a server transfer to an opposing WvW server for your quick duel.

 

They aren't realistic options but those are the options.

[DeanBB.4268]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > There isn't dueling in-game right now, yet when I've been in WvW I've been hassled by players who follow me around and pester me endlessly to duel them. And all I wanna do is cap a few things for a daily, usually. So no, I don't want this added to PvE/open world.

>

> Oh wow, you go to pvp zone and wish no one to pvp you? The logic is undeniable.

 

There's a difference between someone coming along and attacking me and someone dancing around me begging me to duel them.

[phs.6089]

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > > There isn't dueling in-game right now, yet when I've been in WvW I've been hassled by players who follow me around and pester me endlessly to duel them. And all I wanna do is cap a few things for a daily, usually. So no, I don't want this added to PvE/open world.

> >

> > Oh wow, you go to pvp zone and wish no one to pvp you? The logic is undeniable.

>

> There's a difference between someone coming along and attacking me and someone dancing around me begging me to duel them.

 

If you meet such players often, then I don't see why you are against dueling arenas, away from wvw and in special designated places.