Will Camelot Unchained Kill WvW

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> One word: **Subscription.**

 

*le gasp *

[CrimsonNeonite.1048]

Does this game mode have enough popularity, to be able to have healthy competion in the genre?

Idk, but battle royale is doing okay right now, with multiple games, competing for an active palyerbase, even though I'm not a fan of that.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"spectrito.8513" said:

> For me wow vanilla will kill gw2.

> its a **REAL open world PvP**.

> I wish i could stick to gw2 because i like the combat system. But they killed WvW PvP with warclaw.

>

>

 

It will be interesting to see how they implement it, but also, how the players react.

 

See vanilla WoW PvP was great as a concept, in terms of open field fighting, no objectives or rewards, just two factions mad at each other, tearing each other apart. But the execution was terrible. If you think WvW is imbalanced, it's got nothing on vanilla WoW. If you think WvW has a lack of diversity in builds, it's got nothing on vanilla WoW. If you think server / skill lag in WvW is bad, it's got nothing on what you saw in vanilla WoW, when entire servers would crash if too many people showed up, though I would assume they have improved the technology / scaling by this point.

 

People tend to have rose coloured glasses, and once people start complaining about priests getting 1-shot backstabbed by rogues, warlocks dotting up and melting people by pressing 3 buttons, and retribution paladins being laughed at for not being holy, I suspect interest in vanilla wow will subside, again, assuming they plan to revert the game to actual vanilla. Also subscription based.

[spectrito.8513]

> @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > @"spectrito.8513" said:

> > For me wow vanilla will kill gw2.

> > its a **REAL open world PvP**.

> > I wish i could stick to gw2 because i like the combat system. But they killed WvW PvP with warclaw.

> >

> >

>

> Arent there mounts in WoW vanilla?

 

Yes, but it only serves as a mobility tool.

No Hp, dodges,invunerability to cc, also a 3 sec cast

This is how warclaw should be.

[spectrito.8513]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"spectrito.8513" said:

> > For me wow vanilla will kill gw2.

> > its a **REAL open world PvP**.

> > I wish i could stick to gw2 because i like the combat system. But they killed WvW PvP with warclaw.

> >

> >

>

> It will be interesting to see how they implement it, but also, how the players react.

>

> See vanilla WoW PvP was great as a concept, in terms of open field fighting, no objectives or rewards, just two factions mad at each other, tearing each other apart. But the execution was terrible. If you think WvW is imbalanced, it's got nothing on vanilla WoW. If you think WvW has a lack of diversity in builds, it's got nothing on vanilla WoW. If you think server / skill lag in WvW is bad, it's got nothing on what you saw in vanilla WoW, when entire servers would crash if too many people showed up, though I would assume they have improved the technology / scaling by this point.

>

 

 

Have you ever considered that people play PvP just for the fun of it ?

There's no need of rewards if its fun.

Thats why i used to play WvW, for the fun of fighting people instead of killing npc's all day and capturing empty towers.

 

Also implying that vanilla didnt have rewards its just a lie, you can get rewards even before reaching level cap.

 

Lack of build diversity is only applied to hardcore PvP/PvE groups.

 

> People tend to have rose coloured glasses, and once people start complaining about priests getting 1-shot backstabbed by rogues, warlocks dotting up and melting people by pressing 3 buttons, and retribution paladins being laughed at for not being holy, I suspect interest in vanilla wow will subside, again, assuming they plan to revert the game to actual vanilla. Also subscription based.

 

Blizzard isnt releasing Vanilla for the casual audience, but for the people who were playing it since 2014 on trash private servers(myself include) because no other MMO's were good enough.

 

As for the people start complaining by dying in a open world PvP, dont worry i'll recomend Gw2 WvW to them.

 

 

[LetoII.3782]

GW2 is game

GW2 is life

Though shalt have no other upon ones ssd

[aspirine.5839]

> @"spectrito.8513" said:

> > @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > > @"spectrito.8513" said:

> > > For me wow vanilla will kill gw2.

> > > its a **REAL open world PvP**.

> > > I wish i could stick to gw2 because i like the combat system. But they killed WvW PvP with warclaw.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Arent there mounts in WoW vanilla?

>

> Yes, but it only serves as a mobility tool.

> No Hp, dodges,invunerability to cc, also a 3 sec cast

> This is how warclaw should be.

 

Damn, I agree.

[Optimator.3589]

Options should be "Yes", "No", "Toaster"

 

As for me and my opinion, CU has the potential to kill WvW **_IF_** and only if it releases before 2021 and isn't a steaming pile of garbage. We have no way of telling right now whether both of those conditions will be met. At the very least, if CU fails, CSE could potentially license their engine to other developers, since it is actually built for RvR. So there is that.

[reddie.5861]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

 

> See vanilla WoW PvP was great as a concept, in terms of open field fighting, no objectives or rewards, just two factions mad at each other, tearing each other apart. But the execution was terrible.

 

 

erm? seriously?

WoW PvP was bad if u want good PvP with good reasons u need to go for korean mmo's

 

here u had actually open world pvp with no save zones where people could kill u for no reason and had no annoying alliance on ur ass if u didnt want some1 u could kill him. same goes for old UO and DAOC

u didnt go for raids in instance like WoW/GW2 no u went for it in open world and u had PvP's like the one above if not far bigger pvp's.

that was fun nowadays in all mmo's u farm shitty instances u gear up u go pvp wow the joy.. atleast old koreans u had gear up far harder and had no silly free raids in instance to farm your gear from but had big ass PvP's for a crappy raid with low chance to actually drop something good :disappointed:

 

not saying this new camelot will be good but if its anything like the old one i think a large amount of people will leave from gw2.

 

[aspirine.5839]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

>

> > See vanilla WoW PvP was great as a concept, in terms of open field fighting, no objectives or rewards, just two factions mad at each other, tearing each other apart. But the execution was terrible.

>

>

> erm? seriously?

> WoW PvP was bad if u want good PvP with good reasons u need to go for korean mmo's

>

>

> here u had actually open world pvp with no save zones where people could kill u for no reason and had no annoying alliance on ur kitten if u didnt want some1 u could kill him. same goes for old UO and DAOC

> u didnt go for raids in instance like WoW/GW2 no u went for it in open world and u had PvP's like the one above if not far bigger pvp's.

> that was fun nowadays in all mmo's u farm kitten instances u gear up u go pvp wow the joy.. atleast old koreans u had gear up far harder and had no silly free raids in instance to farm your gear from but had big kitten PvP's for a crappy raid with low chance to actually drop something good :disappointed:

>

> not saying this new camelot will be good but if its anything like the old one i think a large amount of people will leave from gw2.

>

 

wtf is this aids of a game.

[Ni In.6578]

If a game doesn't have a strong PvE presence, it won't kill WvW/GW2. You can't have a sustainable game with just try hards... you must have the casuals to supplement (think FIRE, PB, MAGI [insert NSP guild here]).

[Iozeph.5617]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

>

> > See vanilla WoW PvP was great as a concept, in terms of open field fighting, no objectives or rewards, just two factions mad at each other, tearing each other apart. But the execution was terrible.

>

>

> erm? seriously?

> WoW PvP was bad if u want good PvP with good reasons u need to go for korean mmo's

>

>

> here u had actually open world pvp with no save zones where people could kill u for no reason and had no annoying alliance on ur kitten if u didnt want some1 u could kill him. same goes for old UO and DAOC

> u didnt go for raids in instance like WoW/GW2 no u went for it in open world and u had PvP's like the one above if not far bigger pvp's.

> that was fun nowadays in all mmo's u farm kitten instances u gear up u go pvp wow the joy.. atleast old koreans u had gear up far harder and had no silly free raids in instance to farm your gear from but had big kitten PvP's for a crappy raid with low chance to actually drop something good :disappointed:

>

> not saying this new camelot will be good but if its anything like the old one i think a large amount of people will leave from gw2.

>

 

If it's remotely similar to the old one nobody will give a damn. The original DAoC ruined its own chances by introducing semi raiding with Darkness Falls, Dartmoor, and Trials of Atlantis -where each respective expansion's content made gear more and more important as oposed to just your character, your spec, and your skill. It also allowed players to exploit content via the use of concentration buffs so that someone running a dual box left a zombie enhancement class at the portal keep, fully enhanced the stealth character they actually wanted to play in the frontier -an assassin or archer class- and then went around stomping people who didn't have those same advantages with a character that effectivly was five to ten levels stronger than those without it depending on enhancement spec and their realm level.

 

Between that, the terrible lag, and the zergs/blobs doing nothing but running around following speed classes running radar and win trading with other realms, that's why so many left and why a good deal of those who stayed no longer bothered fully kitting out and levelling characters to fifty, they just twinked out low levels and stayed in battlegrounds.

 

Make no mistake DAoC pioneered most of the concepts we have today in competitive game modes but Mythic screwed itself out of relevance and got absorbed by EA for it. Warhammer failed, ToR is a ghost town, but Marc Jacobs want you to believe that that sort of mismanagement won't happen all over again. And with so many of the people who made DAoC successful now scattered across the industry. Part of that failure resulted in making ESO possible.

 

WvW sucks- largely due to the same sort of lack of attention and dedication to keeping a level playing field that sunk Mythic. There's still third party cheating. There's still win trading. There are no buff bots though, but that's besides the point.

 

It isn't October, 2001 anymore. The game space is glutted with competitive mode fare of just about every stripe imaginable now. CU to me just comes off as a nostalgia grab for the forty and over set who were heavily into DAoC in the early oughts but I doubt that's enough to make it anything beyond niche today.

 

The story's terrible, the races are stupid(because they screwed themselves losing the rights to what they'd previously worked so hard on with DAoC), and the classes just aren't that interesting. It's as though they said, "Well we did this and this and this with the last game, but they(EA) own all that now. So I guess we just settle for whatever scraps fell off the editing table last time, lean heavy on that public domain backbone of a story, change a few names around to avoid those fifteen points of similarity that will get us sued into the ground, and try to pass this off as something new."

[LetoII.3782]

If CU fails it won't be due to lore.

This supposedly has great story but I get lored to tears after 5 minutes of listening to it

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

>

> > See vanilla WoW PvP was great as a concept, in terms of open field fighting, no objectives or rewards, just two factions mad at each other, tearing each other apart. But the execution was terrible.

>

>

> erm? seriously?

> WoW PvP was bad if u want good PvP with good reasons u need to go for korean mmo's

>

>

> here u had actually open world pvp with no save zones where people could kill u for no reason and had no annoying alliance on ur kitten if u didnt want some1 u could kill him. same goes for old UO and DAOC

> u didnt go for raids in instance like WoW/GW2 no u went for it in open world and u had PvP's like the one above if not far bigger pvp's.

> that was fun nowadays in all mmo's u farm kitten instances u gear up u go pvp wow the joy.. atleast old koreans u had gear up far harder and had no silly free raids in instance to farm your gear from but had big kitten PvP's for a crappy raid with low chance to actually drop something good :disappointed:

>

> not saying this new camelot will be good but if its anything like the old one i think a large amount of people will leave from gw2.

>

That is quite literally 5 minutes of... effects... dotting the landscape. I dont even see anything remotely resembling PvP.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

Let's see if CU actually launches in a stable state. Haven't seen a release date yet. I doubt we are looking at anything before end of 2020.

 

Then once that has been achieved, let's see if the game even survives the initial 6 months and garners enough gamers and attention.

 

Once that is the case, let's see if CU's WvW is superior to GW2's WvW.

 

That's a lot of "let's sees" there to even begin to worry about CU killing WvW. Currently the chances of Arenanet killing WvW are way higher than CU.

 

EDIT: and that's me as an old time DAoC and Warhammer Online veteran thinking. I'm not even sure where newer players might stand on this issue.

[floppypuppy.5789]

I really hope CU turns out good enough to kill this game... not sure which direction the cynicism/realism should point though.

[Kaiser.9873]

I don't want to say CU will never happen, but that is looking more and more likely. At this point by the time it's released, if it's released, it will be obsolete.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

>

> EDIT: and that's me as an old time DAoC and Warhammer Online veteran thinking. I'm not even sure where newer players might stand on this issue.

 

The same way we were before all those disappointments: Overenthusiastic about manufactured hype. Mr. Jacobs tends to bite off more than he can chew, consistently.

[Mil.3562]

If ANet continues to listen and give in to what the forumers (20%) want instead of considering the wants of the rest of the vast majority of players (60%) who never or hardly visit here. Oh yes, the other 20% already stopped playing or moved to other games, like me and some of my friends and guildlies.

 

Of course, occasionally we will come back to check and hope for positive changes, but knowing ANet's policies, the only changes we will get are nerfs and more nerfs in the name of balance, of course. I doubt if most of the veteran forumers still play this game.

[kash.9213]

I like working on my build and trying stupid stuff in WvW, I'll play another game if there is a build that hits all the right notes for me a little better than what I'm playing right now, but it also needs to have similar variety of things to do and it would go a long way tying them all together somehow to give an open world feel. I really would like an open pvp mirror mega server some day.

[Chorazin.4107]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

 

> WoW PvP was bad if u want good PvP with good reasons u need to go for korean mmo's

 

Korean mmo's are all pay 2 win. No thanks. I have played a few, Archeage, BDO, B&S.

 

As for DAoC, it was certainly the best I have played for open field wvw/rvr. It of course had it's problems being a pioneer, for those that played remeber when there were no immunity timers and you could just be perma stunned over and over until death? Or when they had purge locked behind a bunch of pre requisites so new players didnt have access to it until they purchased all the pre req 's to get it?

 

Those problems were resolved, there were so many ways to clear mez by the end, heavy tanks had determination, light tanks and hybrids had charge, bolstering raw from heavy tanks, mez cleanses from support classes. Etc. They overhauled the realm abilities system so it was actually intuitive and balanced. Your first buy into a skill netted you a large return and as you scaled up the chart you had diminishing returns for stat boosts. This lessened the difference between new players and those RR8+'s.

 

The fact that Realm Abilities actually meant your character had some progression in RvR was a good thing. What do you do with the abilities in this game? Im sure I have a bunch of points just sitting around unspent, or you buy worthless siege upgrades which are hardly exciting. Each individual class had specialised RvR abilities in DAoC, plus a pool of abilities they could invest in based upon their class grouping as they ranked up in RvR(heavy tank, light tank, caster, support, healer).

 

ToA(Trials of Atlantis) was a massive PvE grind which was mostly the death of the game. The power creep between those with ToA artifacts leveled to 10 and ML10 vs those without was laughable. I mostly 8v8'd and recall running into a group that hadnt got all their gear and ML's done and we had, the encounter was a joke. And the majority of the playerbase was RvR focused, having to sit around and farm mobs over and over to level artifacts was tedious. The previous expansion Shrouded Isles had personal jewelcrafting which was a definite upgrade in customising stats but could still be overcome with decent skilled play.

 

I have little faith in CU, will give it a look but it will probably be meh.

[Absconditus.6804]

Of course it won't kill WvW. What an absolutely stupendously stupid thing to stupidly assume.

The vote options are also stupendously terrible — obviously it will die _some_ day.

[DemonSeed.3528]

I don't think it will kill it. It will just get curious people checking it out, finding out it wasn't all it was cropped up to be, maybe enjoy it and play for a little while, and move on back to other things. Of course I could be wrong though. I just hope that the people who find themselves enjoying that game don't get the rug pulled from under them by the devs.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> I just hope that the people who find themselves enjoying that game don't get the rug pulled from under them by the devs.

 

buff rug

[Ashen.2907]

I will give CU a shot. If it is good my wvw play time will diminish greatly. Still, not going to get hyped until I see the final finished product. ANet successfully cured me of trusting a studio rather than waiting to judge the product based solely on its merits.