Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I think a big problem is that siege can damage siege. this is how all siege wars begin, you cant ram or short range cata so you back off. guess what, they have a balli and maybe even a treb. so you build bubbles... etc. ad infinitum. possibly even revert ac nerfs. get rid of the stupid contested state for way points. seriously, why should one troll be able to prevent an entire server from way pointing? its lame. no one enjoys this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Wait, you want siege to only be useful against _players_? That's, like, the opposite of what I want. I'd rather siege _only damage siege_, if you want to damage the players come out and do it yourself instead of standing on an AC (or five) behind a wall. But I'll never get that so meh. =< People have been asking for adjustments to the contesting mechanics for years to avoid the cheesiness of individual players being able to shut down entire waypoints strictly for being within breathing distance of a guard. I agree, but I don't see that changing anytime soon. Perhaps change it so they have to at least kill a guard or two so nearby players have an opportunity to at least potentially respond. I dunno. ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > Wait, you want siege to only be useful against _players_? That's, like, the opposite of what I want. I'd rather siege _only damage siege_, if you want to damage the players come out and do it yourself instead of standing on an AC (or five) behind a wall. But I'll never get that so meh. =< so does the scenario I described not happen when you play? that sounds magical. when I used to play it happened all the time. some structures were literally invulnerable without dedicating an hour to siege wars. siege killing siege is the only force behind siege wars, and if I would hazard a guess I would say the majority hate siege wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliren.4985 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 With the way Gates and walls got their hp nerfed I don't see the need to change things as far as siege goes. If you can't afford building 2 shield generators and keep switching bubbles you probably don't deserve to take over the things your trying to break in to :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L A T I O N.8923 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > Wait, you want siege to only be useful against _players_? That's, like, the opposite of what I want. I'd rather siege _only damage siege_, if you want to damage the players come out and do it yourself instead of standing on an AC (or five) behind a wall. But I'll never get that so meh. =< > > People have been asking for adjustments to the contesting mechanics for years to avoid the cheesiness of individual players being able to shut down entire waypoints strictly for being within breathing distance of a guard. I agree, but I don't see that changing anytime soon. Perhaps change it so they have to at least kill a guard or two so nearby players have an opportunity to at least potentially respond. I dunno. > > ~ Kovu Unfortunatly the 'good defense' means building Infinite ac's on what i see most of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celsith.2753 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > Wait, you want siege to only be useful against _players_? That's, like, the opposite of what I want. I'd rather siege _only damage siege_, if you want to damage the players come out and do it yourself instead of standing on an AC (or five) behind a wall. But I'll never get that so meh. =< > > People have been asking for adjustments to the contesting mechanics for years to avoid the cheesiness of individual players being able to shut down entire waypoints strictly for being within breathing distance of a guard. I agree, but I don't see that changing anytime soon. Perhaps change it so they have to at least kill a guard or two so nearby players have an opportunity to at least potentially respond. I dunno. > > ~ Kovu Oh they changed it though Kovu. You used to have to hit the gate to contest. Now you just need to aggro a guard. Not even hit it. Just go by one on your mount. Siege should only hit siege imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 > @"Celsith.2753" said: > Siege should only hit siege imo. so do you disagree with the statement siege killing siege creates siege wars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliren.4985 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 > @"L A T I O N.8923" said: > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > Wait, you want siege to only be useful against _players_? That's, like, the opposite of what I want. I'd rather siege _only damage siege_, if you want to damage the players come out and do it yourself instead of standing on an AC (or five) behind a wall. But I'll never get that so meh. =< > > > > People have been asking for adjustments to the contesting mechanics for years to avoid the cheesiness of individual players being able to shut down entire waypoints strictly for being within breathing distance of a guard. I agree, but I don't see that changing anytime soon. Perhaps change it so they have to at least kill a guard or two so nearby players have an opportunity to at least potentially respond. I dunno. > > > > ~ Kovu > > Unfortunatly the 'good defense' means building Infinite ac's on what i see most of the time It wouldn't be WvW without 20 AC's ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Celsith.2753" said: > > Siege should only hit siege imo. > > so do you disagree with the statement siege killing siege creates siege wars? > Players building siege creates siege wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nol Fran Shee.1285 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 What is wrong with siege wars? You're bandying that statement around as if it's some kind of insult. Siege is one of the elements that sets WvW apart from PvE. You don't come into a WvW fight with a white, blue, green, or yellow (rare) sword. You have golden (exotic), lavender (ascended), or purple (legendary). And then you get one upped by a machine designed to kill. Siege should be the most devastating thing in the game. Walmart arrow carts ought to make a Rangers bow look like a toy; then Superior or Guild versions even moreso. So first the enemy has to break through your wall, then they have to pierce your armor, and then they hit you. Conventional weapons can't even damage a wall. Yeah, siege rocks. Not only that it adds the element of resource management. You can cut off your enemies access to supply in prelude to an attack. It's called strategy. If you just want to smash face go play the PvP option, it's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 > @"Nol Fran Shee.1285" said: > What is wrong with siege wars? it is totally un-interactive gameplay that 90% of the players can't and don't want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nol Fran Shee.1285 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Nol Fran Shee.1285" said: > > What is wrong with siege wars? > > it is totally un-interactive gameplay that 90% of the players can't and don't want to play. Press F to interact. Then press and hold 1 to choose a power level (a lot like Angry Birds). I guess your definition of non-interactive and mine differ slightly. My definition of non-interactive means hands not on keyboards. Using a siege engine is a lot easier than having to cycle through a series of keystrokes, watching skill cooldowns, and trying to stay on top of a rapidly moving command tag. Maybe I'm in that 10%, but I bet you'd love some covering fire from an Arrow Cart or a Healing Oasis from a Trebuchet. (Healing Oasis should be an ammo type, not a separate launch process) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"Nol Fran Shee.1285" said: > My definition of non-interactive means hands not on keyboards. > > Using a siege engine is a lot easier than having to cycle through a series of keystrokes > > Maybe I'm in that 10%, but I bet you'd love some covering fire from an Arrow Cart with some critical thinking my statement is clear. most people play the game to use their skills to kill other people, not to hop on an arrow cart and press 1 button over and over with great results. yes. no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 @"Stand The Wall.6987" Siege use is part of the RvR game mode design, so just adapt. If you want a more "pure" pvp experience please use Heart of the Mists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Nol Fran Shee.1285" said: > > What is wrong with siege wars? > > it is totally un-interactive gameplay that 90% of the players can't and don't want to play. You're just upset that opposing players aren't playing by your rules or preferences... You're getting outsmarted by enemies who are using all available tools and tactics to best you. Ultimately this scenario is a "you" problem, not one with the mode or other players. All working as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch.6507 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: when I used to play it happened all the time. I guess my question is,why are you concerned now? It would appear as though you have stopped playing the game, and this no longer affects you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 WvW is a siege PvP game mode. Siege is actually very easy to counter, it's that most tags today don't know or care about it, they will bang their heads on a wall for hours. I saw this in EBG, they wiped 3 times attacking red keep, because of ACs etc on the wall killing them and their catas. I told the tag how to fix this after the first wipe, they did nothing, after the 3rd, I went to the cliff with one other person and built a bali and cleared everything. Siege is nothing today, it doesn't even really hurt, back before the AC nerfs, now THAT was siege wars and people knew tactics and how to deal with it, people just can't be bothered anymore and then cry about it when people know how to use it correctly. I will agree about WP contesting, it was bad enough that people tapped keeps all the time, but now with mounts, ANYONE can do it, over and over again. A WP should not be contested by a single or few people running by. It should only trigger when siege damage is taken, or at the very least a higher metric of people attacking guards etc, say 5 or 10+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > WvW is a siege PvP game mode. Siege is actually very easy to counter, it's that most tags today don't know or care about it, they will bang their heads on a wall for hours. I saw this in EBG, they wiped 3 times attacking red keep, because of ACs etc on the wall killing them and their catas. I told the tag how to fix this after the first wipe, they did nothing, after the 3rd, I went to the cliff with one other person and built a bali and cleared everything. > This^. The best is the catas right up against most tower walls.... > I will agree about WP contesting, it was bad enough that people tapped keeps all the time, but now with mounts, ANYONE can do it, over and over again. A WP should not be contested by a single or few people running by. It should only trigger when siege damage is taken, or at the very least a higher metric of people attacking guards etc, say 5 or 10+. I want to get two of us to just continually run around the EBG keeps of our enemies on a mount, and just see how many laps it’ll be before some dismounts and kills me. Between the broken mount dodges and the ways you can contest a keep.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Nol Fran Shee.1285" said: > > What is wrong with siege wars? > > it is totally un-interactive gameplay that 90% of the players can't and don't want to play. ? Even I throw down siege and use it. It's another dynamic in WvW. And being able to use a treb or balista to clean up an objective plastered with arrow carts is a good thing. "Running between objectives is totally un-interactive gameplay that 90% of the players can't and don't want to play; let me double click their icon on minimap to teleport to them!". Being able to contest an objective so easily is kind of lame but it also is something ANYONE can do and doesn't require you to join a blob to contribute some chaos. If you cannot take camps not sentries because the enemy is super defending, start tagging stuff to confuse and distract. Again, it's a dynamic thing that makes WvW more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > snips if done right a t3 tower or keep can stop just about everything thrown at it. siege wars grinds everything to a standstill that can last a long time. why people think this is enjoyable is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > snips > if done right a t3 tower or keep can stop just about everything thrown at it. siege wars grinds everything to a standstill that can last a long time. why people think this is enjoyable is beyond me. Because some people like to fight instead of karma train empty objectives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"Justine.6351" said: > Even I throw down siege and use it. It's another dynamic in WvW. And being able to use a treb or balista to clean up an objective plastered with arrow carts is a good thing. > > "Running between objectives is totally un-interactive gameplay that 90% of the players can't and don't want to play; let me double click their icon on minimap to teleport to them!". > > Being able to contest an objective so easily is kind of lame but it also is something ANYONE can do and doesn't require you to join a blob to contribute some chaos. If you cannot take camps not sentries because the enemy is super defending, start tagging stuff to confuse and distract. Again, it's a dynamic thing that makes WvW more interesting. lol, that wouldn't be necessary if siege couldn't hurt other siege. ok... this was in reference to siege wars. having a permanently contested waypoint is incredibly lame. taking longer to reach things isn't interesting, its boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"Justine.6351" said: > Because some people like to fight instead of karma train empty objectives? cuz fighting with siege is fun for everyone... it actually makes people log off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlySynz.3471 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > snips > if done right a t3 tower or keep can stop just about everything thrown at it. siege wars grinds everything to a standstill that can last a long time. why people think this is enjoyable is beyond me. Not entirely true, usually flash building alpha or guild golems, or rams with 1 shield generator is enough to bust into any T3 very quickly. Especially with the golems, the gates can drop in less than 10 seconds. It’s pretty much unstoppable unless the defenders are already pre-firing their trebs from afar as the enemy is trying to build. Outside of that, there really is no defence to this, that’s why the attackers always have the advantage. There really is no excuse for attackers to break into an objective if they really want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > > snips > > if done right a t3 tower or keep can stop just about everything thrown at it. siege wars grinds everything to a standstill that can last a long time. why people think this is enjoyable is beyond me. > > Not entirely true, usually flash building alpha or guild golems, or rams with 1 shield generator is enough to bust into any T3 very quickly. Especially with the golems, the gates can drop in less than 10 seconds. It’s pretty much unstoppable unless the defenders are already pre-firing their trebs from afar as the enemy is trying to build. Outside of that, there really is no defence to this, that’s why the attackers always have the advantage. There really is no excuse for attackers to break into an objective if they really want to. > > And for most towers, self covering guild catas at range will also pop in fairly easily as well. ESPECIALLY if there is watchtower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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