steki.1478 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"SoV.5139" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepwalker.1398 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 OK, so i tried Soulbeast. Very first thing i noticed...Unstoppabled Union. So merge with your pet > Mount up > See an enemy, Dismount or use skill 1 to dismount >Unstoppabled Union (This trait actives on its own automatically which i think it shouldn't) > fire away unblockable shots and see everyone cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silinsar.6298 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Generally I think Slb is fine and the oneshot gimmick builds aren't even the strongest of their specs. I can see the frustrating design for the one on the receiving end though, since it is a low risk, high range burst that counters 2 important defensive tools from the get go: block and stealth. That said, they're only really effective in certain spots, where they have elevated terrain and you have nothing to hide behind. If you're mounted you have enough time to react with dodges (it doesn't dismount you instantly, you have a chance to notice the Slb, the arrows and react fast enough), before you get dismounted you can do it yourself to avoid the CC. Then LB #4 is the only cc Slb has at that range, which you can break and dodge what comes afterwards. At this point, almost every class has tools to further keep on living, extra dodges, heals, mobility to get behind cover, ports, invulns / damage negation ... If you use those to break LOS the Slb takes a while to come close, which means you get to recover endurance & lower CDs. In close range Slb loses effectiveness, they used 1-2 utilities for the burst, so you have a chance to fight back. If you have a good awareness you can also charge them on open field with the mount while dodging, they waste their burst and their positional advantage, you should have a decent chance to beat them on roaming specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. > > Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? > > What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? > > You are doing exactly what I stated in the quoted post, trying to compare thing A to thing B, and again, GW2 is not balanced on ability homogenization, where doing the same thing yields the same result. Its likely you are playing either a non optimal build, or an optimal build that does something else much better than the soulbeast. The claim of the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast is simply not true. I hard counter them on both my mesmers, as well as my d/p thief. I can tell when someone knows this and when they do not, because they will still try their little sic'em+LB2 burst on a mesmer to see if they can get an easy down on someone not paying attention, but when it fails, the ones who understand mesmer can hard counter range fairly easily run off usually blowing all their mobility cooldowns to do so, while those who do not understand this attempt to stick around, and are summarily crushed in short order. I have also seen dragonhunter burst builds take them down (the old sword+traps burst). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOStaticOo.9467 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. > > Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? > > What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? > > Long Range projectiles can be affected by Terrain, Line of Sight, Reflects, Evades, Dodges, Stealth, Invulns..... If not timed perfectly, there are all kinds of ways you can avoid a Ranger's supposed 30k damage. Most Rangers are not running the Glass-Cannon Sic'em build. Most are running Boonbeast. I don't even run the Sic'em Glass Cannon Build. I know that if I get caught with it I will be deleted in .1 seconds by just about everybody I come across. Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrito.8513 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > ...If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll **FIX** the Glass Cannon build.... at least you acknowledge that its broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > > > > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > > > > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > > > > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > > > > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. > > > > Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? > > > > What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? > > > > > > Long Range projectiles can be affected by Terrain, Line of Sight, Reflects, Evades, Dodges, Stealth, Invulns..... If not timed perfectly, there are all kinds of ways you can avoid a Ranger's supposed 30k damage. Most Rangers are not running the Glass-Cannon Sic'em build. Most are running Boonbeast. I don't even run the Sic'em Glass Cannon Build. I know that if I get caught with it I will be deleted in .1 seconds by just about everybody I come across. Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. Isn't boonbeast supposed to be bunker anyway? Why would it need 40% extra damage? There's no reason for tanky builds to have high damage nor for glass builds to have 0 risk oneshots, regardless of class and scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. Said everyone on every build on every class ever right before Anet nerfs them because its always the "balanced" builds that suffer the most from nerfs to extreme builds. Do you defend every class or just ranger? There is only one proper answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Morbius.1759 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 The fact that they put this out thinking it's balanced speaks volumes in my mind and is the root of the balancing issues we are faced with. We need a bloody test server and if anything these insane builds that keeping making into the game 7 years on is proof of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOStaticOo.9467 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. > > Said everyone on every build on every class ever right before Anet nerfs them because its always the "balanced" builds that suffer the most from nerfs to extreme builds. Do you defend every class or just ranger? There is only one proper answer. The only other class I go against is Thief, and it's not Thief that I hate it's Stealth. I would be perfectly fine with Thief if Stealth was either removed completely or made to be in such a way that it can't be used in combat. I do somewhat have an issue also with the red carpet of death that Necros pump out, but that's more of an issue where I feel like diminishing returns should be placed into the game to affect stuff like that and stacking boons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOStaticOo.9467 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > > > > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > > > > > > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > > > > > > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > > > > > > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > > > > > > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. > > > > > > Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? > > > > > > What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? > > > > > > > > > > Long Range projectiles can be affected by Terrain, Line of Sight, Reflects, Evades, Dodges, Stealth, Invulns..... If not timed perfectly, there are all kinds of ways you can avoid a Ranger's supposed 30k damage. Most Rangers are not running the Glass-Cannon Sic'em build. Most are running Boonbeast. I don't even run the Sic'em Glass Cannon Build. I know that if I get caught with it I will be deleted in .1 seconds by just about everybody I come across. Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. > > Isn't boonbeast supposed to be bunker anyway? Why would it need 40% extra damage? > > There's no reason for tanky builds to have high damage nor for glass builds to have 0 risk oneshots, regardless of class and scenario. Because when you go Bunker build you usually do not put out enough damage to do decent damage, most of the time Bunker builds end in a stalemate or the other person giving up and running away to go fight something else. It's no fun to just sit there and take damage and not be able to retaliate in return. It's boring. 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Anput.4620 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. > > Said everyone on every build on every class ever right before Anet nerfs them because its always the "balanced" builds that suffer the most from nerfs to extreme builds. Do you defend every class or just ranger? There is only one proper answer. Ok, fair enough, let's discuss nerfing necros and firebrands into the ground then, stats show that rangers are low impact and barely played compared to those 2 which are high impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > > > > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > > > > > > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > > > > > > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > > > > > > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > > > > > > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. > > > > > > Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? > > > > > > What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? > > > > > > > > > > Long Range projectiles can be affected by Terrain, Line of Sight, Reflects, Evades, Dodges, Stealth, Invulns..... If not timed perfectly, there are all kinds of ways you can avoid a Ranger's supposed 30k damage. Most Rangers are not running the Glass-Cannon Sic'em build. Most are running Boonbeast. I don't even run the Sic'em Glass Cannon Build. I know that if I get caught with it I will be deleted in .1 seconds by just about everybody I come across. Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. > > Isn't boonbeast supposed to be bunker anyway? Why would it need 40% extra damage? > > There's no reason for tanky builds to have high damage nor for glass builds to have 0 risk oneshots, regardless of class and scenario. There is also no reason for firebrands to spam every boon including stab and heals or necros to have the amount of AoE damage and corrupts they have or Scrappers to have infinite cleanse either or rev sword which does as much damage as sicc em or holos to have infinite CC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlySynz.3471 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. That combo on a typical WvW target running typical amounts of toughness won't hit for more than 3K, so rapid fire or anything coming out of the rangers arsenal being called OP is asinine at best. If Soulbeasts were as powerful as some claim they are, and do the amount of damage people claim they do; you'd see a whole hoard of Soulbeast commanders and Soulbeast ladened squads, but alas we see not one. We don't see one because for all intents and purposes, they are the absolutely worst class to bring into WvW bar none. People can claim this, and people can claim that, but the day to day game play proves exactly just how viable Soulbeasts are. But if we're going to entertain why a class can have one shot ranges from stealth (which they don't on normal targets in WvW whereas others do like Mesmer and Rev), then you have to throw the class some sort of bone as their usefulness in small group and zerg play is laughable. If the Soulbeast actually had the ability to one-shot down someone out of a charging group (which they don't), it wouldn't make a lick of difference when the rest of the group simply runs over the Soulbeast, then rez's their buddy. This is what people don't want to admit; because they are obviously coming from a standpoint of roaming, a 1v1, where the person complaining is either complete glass, or fairly close to it. A typical WvW target who roams, won't even get phased by a Soulbeast fully unloading into them, that's just the way it is. People have got to stop coming down on classes coming from the standpoint of roaming or groups less than 5. Sure it can be done in WvW but that isn't what it's primarily about. Those running in groups of 5 or less are simply just going to have to deal with whatever balance Anet decides to throw towards the large group play because that is what primarily happens in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > > > > > > > > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > > > > > > > > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > > > > > > > > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > > > > > > > > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. > > > > > > > > Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? > > > > > > > > What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long Range projectiles can be affected by Terrain, Line of Sight, Reflects, Evades, Dodges, Stealth, Invulns..... If not timed perfectly, there are all kinds of ways you can avoid a Ranger's supposed 30k damage. Most Rangers are not running the Glass-Cannon Sic'em build. Most are running Boonbeast. I don't even run the Sic'em Glass Cannon Build. I know that if I get caught with it I will be deleted in .1 seconds by just about everybody I come across. Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. > > > > Isn't boonbeast supposed to be bunker anyway? Why would it need 40% extra damage? > > > > There's no reason for tanky builds to have high damage nor for glass builds to have 0 risk oneshots, regardless of class and scenario. > > Because when you go Bunker build you usually do not put out enough damage to do decent damage, most of the time Bunker builds end in a stalemate or the other person giving up and running away to go fight something else. It's no fun to just sit there and take damage and not be able to retaliate in return. It's boring. Tell that to @"Anput.4620" who plays his sword weaver with 11 evades and always wins duels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > That combo on a typical WvW target running typical amounts of toughness won't hit for more than 3K, so rapid fire or anything coming out of the rangers arsenal being called OP is asinine at best. If Soulbeasts were as powerful as some claim they are, and do the amount of damage people claim they do; you'd see a whole hoard of Soulbeast commanders and Soulbeast ladened squads, but alas we see not one. We don't see one because for all intents and purposes, they are the absolutely worst class to bring into WvW bar none. People can claim this, and people can claim that, but the day to day game play proves exactly just how viable Soulbeasts are. > > But if we're going to entertain why a class can have one shot ranges from stealth (which they don't on normal targets in WvW whereas others do like Mesmer and Rev), then you have to throw the class some sort of bone as their usefulness in small group and zerg play is laughable. If the Soulbeast actually had the ability to one-shot down someone out of a charging group (which they don't), it wouldn't make a lick of difference when the rest of the group simply runs over the Soulbeast, then rez's their buddy. This is what people don't want to admit; because they are obviously coming from a standpoint of roaming, a 1v1, where the person complaining is either complete glass, or fairly close to it. A typical WvW target who roams, won't even get phased by a Soulbeast fully unloading into them, that's just the way it is. > > People have got to stop coming down on classes coming from the standpoint of roaming or groups less than 5. Sure it can be done in WvW but that isn't what it's primarily about. Those running in groups of 5 or less are simply just going to have to deal with whatever balance Anet decides to throw towards the large group play because that is what primarily happens in WvW. Just because it's unviable in squad, doesn't mean that it has to kill people with every combo. I don't know what planet you live on, but toughness is only used on supports and a joke of a weaver roaming build, with a few other rare celestial exceptions. And even when you stack toughness you can get hit for 20k by random skills (which aren't necessarily from soulbeast, but it's the most popular offender because it's hard to fail on it), making toughness a waste of stats. What's the point of reducing damage taken when combos still one shot you even with toughness and protection? That's where all these complaints come from, damage output is too high and needs nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMe.1960 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 There aren't many good Soulbeast Rangers. I met max 2 Rangers per server who actually were dangerous for me. The reasons why people hate it so much and i dind't play anything else since Warclaw came out is: You can get people off the Warclaw in 99% and that makes them angry. *walks away with his best evil laugh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokturnal Lunacy.3186 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > Lol cheers OP. Similar thing with me. Killing randoms on the side of a zerg is funny. > > If you call me a no skill ganker, well cool, I have never been too afraid to admit that. > > Blame mounts imo. It does give a false sense of security though. Yeah i even made a vid on how to turn wvw into your very own shooter br starring rangers. hopefully it makesmore players play ranger. lets make wvw a shit show until anet finally takes off their blinders. i used to just play reaper but with the mounts and the one shot mesmers and carry me warriors and burn guards the only feasible class right now is ranger and these gankers want to complain rangers arent letting them gank only makes me play ranger even more. ive even been working on a high dps semi unkillable build to make them even more angry at rangers. they created this mess themselves by exploiting broken game mechanix so im going to do the exact same thing. idc if it makes the mode more toxic, its dying anyway and wont last much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOStaticOo.9467 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 > @"Nokturnal Lunacy.3186" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > Lol cheers OP. Similar thing with me. Killing randoms on the side of a zerg is funny. > > > > If you call me a no skill ganker, well cool, I have never been too afraid to admit that. > > > > Blame mounts imo. It does give a false sense of security though. > > Yeah i even made a vid on how to turn wvw into your very own shooter br starring rangers. hopefully it makesmore players play ranger. lets make wvw a kitten show until anet finally takes off their blinders. i used to just play reaper but with the mounts and the one shot mesmers and carry me warriors and burn guards the only feasible class right now is ranger and these gankers want to complain rangers arent letting them gank only makes me play ranger even more. ive even been working on a high dps semi unkillable build to make them even more angry at rangers. they created this mess themselves by exploiting broken game mechanix so im going to do the exact same thing. idc if it makes the mode more toxic, its dying anyway and wont last much longer. Could you be more Hyperbolic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaessevar.8051 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Ranger lives matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > > > > > > > > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > > > > > > > > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > > > > > > > > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > > > > > > > > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. > > > > > > > > Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? > > > > > > > > What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long Range projectiles can be affected by Terrain, Line of Sight, Reflects, Evades, Dodges, Stealth, Invulns..... If not timed perfectly, there are all kinds of ways you can avoid a Ranger's supposed 30k damage. Most Rangers are not running the Glass-Cannon Sic'em build. Most are running Boonbeast. I don't even run the Sic'em Glass Cannon Build. I know that if I get caught with it I will be deleted in .1 seconds by just about everybody I come across. Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. > > > > Isn't boonbeast supposed to be bunker anyway? Why would it need 40% extra damage? > > > > There's no reason for tanky builds to have high damage nor for glass builds to have 0 risk oneshots, regardless of class and scenario. > > There is also no reason for firebrands to spam every boon including stab and heals or necros to have the amount of AoE damage and corrupts they have or Scrappers to have infinite cleanse either or rev sword which does as much damage as sicc em or holos to have infinite CC? Necro AoE damage? Even full glass cannon, one hit from shroud is what, 3-4k? Must be terribly hard to avoid that pulsing AoE of death after getting hit from it once, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substance E.4852 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > > > > > > > > > > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. > > > > > > > > > > Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? > > > > > > > > > > What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long Range projectiles can be affected by Terrain, Line of Sight, Reflects, Evades, Dodges, Stealth, Invulns..... If not timed perfectly, there are all kinds of ways you can avoid a Ranger's supposed 30k damage. Most Rangers are not running the Glass-Cannon Sic'em build. Most are running Boonbeast. I don't even run the Sic'em Glass Cannon Build. I know that if I get caught with it I will be deleted in .1 seconds by just about everybody I come across. Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. > > > > > > Isn't boonbeast supposed to be bunker anyway? Why would it need 40% extra damage? > > > > > > There's no reason for tanky builds to have high damage nor for glass builds to have 0 risk oneshots, regardless of class and scenario. > > > > There is also no reason for firebrands to spam every boon including stab and heals or necros to have the amount of AoE damage and corrupts they have or Scrappers to have infinite cleanse either or rev sword which does as much damage as sicc em or holos to have infinite CC? > > Necro AoE damage? Even full glass cannon, one hit from shroud is what, 3-4k? Must be terribly hard to avoid that pulsing AoE of death after getting hit from it once, huh? People can face tank 4k damage. They can't face tank 4k damage ten times in one second. Or do you live in some alternate reality where scourge isn't the main AoE damage dealer for large groups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substance E.4852 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? I can't help but notice the lack of videos being posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > > > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > > > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > > > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok then, why do I have to press 7 buttons to do 20k damage over 5 seconds while soulbeast can do 30k damage with 4 buttons in 2 seconds? > > > > > > > > > > > > What's the point of mentioning rock-paper-scissor philosophy when the main counter to long range projectiles can be completely ignored on soulbeast? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long Range projectiles can be affected by Terrain, Line of Sight, Reflects, Evades, Dodges, Stealth, Invulns..... If not timed perfectly, there are all kinds of ways you can avoid a Ranger's supposed 30k damage. Most Rangers are not running the Glass-Cannon Sic'em build. Most are running Boonbeast. I don't even run the Sic'em Glass Cannon Build. I know that if I get caught with it I will be deleted in .1 seconds by just about everybody I come across. Running the build I run I NEVER auto hit for more than 5k damage, and in no way would I ever be able to pump out 30k damage in 4 seconds. The build I run is perfectly balanced to do good damage, decent survivability, and some mobility. If you nerf Sic'em or Strength of the Pack sure you'll fix the Glass Cannon build, but you will severely cripple every other Ranger build and Rangers have been crippled for far too long in WvW. > > > > > > > > Isn't boonbeast supposed to be bunker anyway? Why would it need 40% extra damage? > > > > > > > > There's no reason for tanky builds to have high damage nor for glass builds to have 0 risk oneshots, regardless of class and scenario. > > > > > > There is also no reason for firebrands to spam every boon including stab and heals or necros to have the amount of AoE damage and corrupts they have or Scrappers to have infinite cleanse either or rev sword which does as much damage as sicc em or holos to have infinite CC? > > > > Necro AoE damage? Even full glass cannon, one hit from shroud is what, 3-4k? Must be terribly hard to avoid that pulsing AoE of death after getting hit from it once, huh? > > People can face tank 4k damage. They can't face tank 4k damage ten times in one second. > > Or do you live in some alternate reality where scourge isn't the main AoE damage dealer for large groups? Dunno, it seems to me that people also wouldnt be able to facetank rapidfire with all damage modifiers from 10 soulbeasts in one second, but I could be wrong here. I live in an alternate reality where heralds are the main damage dealers of the zerg, followed by scourges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 > @"Substance E.4852" said: > People can face tank 4k damage. They can't face tank 4k damage ten times in one second. > How can people dodge rapid fire from 1800 range but they cant dodge a visible aoe field on the ground right in front of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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