Cardolan.9123 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 As we know, game companies develop games to make money, thus they only consider how to make the most profit out of the least input as they should. In the case of GW2, it is unlikely for PVP balance to get the attention it needs if other aspects of this game (mainly PVE) promise better profit with less input required. Therefore to make it reasonable to spend resource on PVP balance, it needs to somehow yield a profit that's on par or better than the other aspects of this game. Late edit: I think I fail to make the point of this thread clear, for which I apologize. Here I'll clarify that by saying "better balance" I mean the assumption of literally better balance, the ideal situation where our payment will guarantee a better balance in all terms than it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 what makes you think these morons could do it even if you gave them one billion pounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardolan.9123 Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"choovanski.5462" said: > what makes you think these morons could do it even if you gave them one billion pounds? You can simply hire better balance devs with way less than one billion pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"Cardolan.9123" said: > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > what makes you think these morons could do it even if you gave them one billion pounds? > > You can simply hire better balance devs with way less than one billion pounds. they have had millions of pounds to spend on Devs for the last 7 or so years this game has been out, and look who they hired, and look what they have done. both HoT and PoF show a massive misunderstanding of what is good for a PvP game. anet don't know what they are doing. they don't care either. you can't throw money at them to make them understand how balance works for pvp, it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I would not even mind a monthly subscribtion payment when Anet finally see the high potential this game has in particular for competitive gamemodes. But Anet would need to prove they put the money into development of pvp/ wvw content and balance and not into weird side projects no one rly knows about or into pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardolan.9123 Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > @"Cardolan.9123" said: > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > what makes you think these morons could do it even if you gave them one billion pounds? > > > > You can simply hire better balance devs with way less than one billion pounds. > > they have had millions of pounds to spend on Devs for the last 7 or so years this game has been out, and look who they hired, and look what they have done. both HoT and PoF show a massive misunderstanding of what is good for a PvP game. > > anet don't know what they are doing. they don't care either. you can't throw money at them to make them understand how balance works for pvp, it will never happen. Millions of pounds spent on devs of the whole game, not necessarily on PVP. And the expansions did bring some revenue so not a bad call. As for PVP, maybe it was also because there's this consistency of low profit per input over the past 7 years so they just did't have the reason to share their immense resource on it. Can't care what can't be cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"Cardolan.9123" said: > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > @"Cardolan.9123" said: > > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > what makes you think these morons could do it even if you gave them one billion pounds? > > > > > > You can simply hire better balance devs with way less than one billion pounds. > > > > they have had millions of pounds to spend on Devs for the last 7 or so years this game has been out, and look who they hired, and look what they have done. both HoT and PoF show a massive misunderstanding of what is good for a PvP game. > > > > anet don't know what they are doing. they don't care either. you can't throw money at them to make them understand how balance works for pvp, it will never happen. > > Millions of pounds spent on devs of the whole game, not necessarily on PVP. And the expansions did bring some revenue so not a bad call. As for PVP, maybe it was also because there's this consistency of low profit per input over the past 7 years so they just did't have the reason to share their immense resource on it. Can't care what can't be cared. c'mon my dude. this company has been doing constantly bad balance patches for pvp for years. they don't decide to do bad patches because they don't think the gamemode makes enough money. don't be stupid. revenue effects the frequency of updates sure, but not the quality of the actual balance changes made. stupid balancing decisions arnt made to punish the community for not giving them enough money. no. stupid balancing decisions are made by incompetent devs who don't know what they are doing. paying them more won't magically teach them how to balance a PvP game. it's something they do not know, and over the last 7 years have not been able to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Where is the "no" option? I already paid for balance when I bought the game, expansions and gems. What's next? You buy the game and then a balance dlc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellsqueen.3045 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > @"Cardolan.9123" said: > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > @"Cardolan.9123" said: > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > > what makes you think these morons could do it even if you gave them one billion pounds? > > > > > > > > You can simply hire better balance devs with way less than one billion pounds. > > > > > > they have had millions of pounds to spend on Devs for the last 7 or so years this game has been out, and look who they hired, and look what they have done. both HoT and PoF show a massive misunderstanding of what is good for a PvP game. > > > > > > anet don't know what they are doing. they don't care either. you can't throw money at them to make them understand how balance works for pvp, it will never happen. > > > > Millions of pounds spent on devs of the whole game, not necessarily on PVP. And the expansions did bring some revenue so not a bad call. As for PVP, maybe it was also because there's this consistency of low profit per input over the past 7 years so they just did't have the reason to share their immense resource on it. Can't care what can't be cared. > > c'mon my dude. this company has been doing constantly bad balance patches for pvp for years. they don't decide to do bad patches because they don't think the gamemode makes enough money. > > don't be stupid. > > revenue effects the frequency of updates sure, but not the quality of the actual balance changes made. stupid balancing decisions arnt made to punish the community for not giving them enough money. > > no. stupid balancing decisions are made by incompetent devs who don't know what they are doing. > > paying them more won't magically teach them how to balance a PvP game. it's something they do not know, and over the last 7 years have not been able to learn. What makes you think you could do balance better or in a way that doesn't completely mess up other characters? In games like this, it isn't east to balance multiple classes to come up against each other and you can look at any MMO game to prove it. Heck, you can look at MOBA's to prove it. Balancing isn't easy. Balancing things that don't have some level of similarity between another makes balancing harder still. Look at WoW. Heck, even look at Overwatch. Look at League. Balancing things that are different isn't easy. This isn't like CSGO where you just tweak some numbers on bullets and maybe fire rate and w/e. Everything is different, things require more changes than just number tweaks to bring them in line. You are being arrogant and cruel to the Devs who aren't necessarily being faced with the easiest job especially when it comes to facing different classes against each other. PvE complains a tad less about the balance because they don't have to face each other, they get to work with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"hellsqueen.3045" said: > What makes you think you could do balance better or in a way that doesn't completely mess up other characters? > > In games like this, it isn't east to balance multiple classes to come up against each other and you can look at any MMO game to prove it. Heck, you can look at MOBA's to prove it. > > Balancing isn't easy. > Balancing things that don't have some level of similarity between another makes balancing harder still. > > Look at WoW. Heck, even look at Overwatch. Look at League. > > Balancing things that are different isn't easy. > This isn't like CSGO where you just tweak some numbers on bullets and maybe fire rate and w/e. > Everything is different, things require more changes than just number tweaks to bring them in line. > > You are being arrogant and cruel to the Devs who aren't necessarily being faced with the easiest job especially when it comes to facing different classes against each other. > > PvE complains a tad less about the balance because they don't have to face each other, they get to work with each other. I don't know dude, at least I'm smart enough to realise 20k+ crits from a single ability might be bad for pvp. I'm also smart enough to realise the importance of the input of top players, which is something anet ignored back when we had an actual PvP scene. so yeah, I do think I could have done a better job. does that make me mean and arrogant? maybe arrogant sure, but mean- no. definitely not. to say the Devs have done a poor job of balancing PvP in gw2 is not an insult, it's not mean. it's the truth. it's also the main reason why population barely exists, and there is no PvP scene for this game. PvP in gw2 is an absolutely abysmal state. the balancing team have turned what was a promising PvP mmo mode into an absolute clown fiesta. gw2 PvP in 2019 is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuickFox.3826 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Other: I will only pay for balance if this results in balance adjustments into my direction. ;) But really: Balance can be improved from where we are now, but I'm not willing to pay extra for it. (I miss this option in the poll) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 How about I already paid and devs should do what they are responsible for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague Memory.2817 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 This is a ridiculous poll. The op hasn't even got an option for saying no. Dude do an internet search on how to construct a non-biased poll if you are attempting to be serious. Forgetting the poll absurdity. No I wouldn't pay for balance. Why would anyone want to pay someone that they know has zero competency in performing a desired service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave.6819 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I'm not willing to pay anthing. I already paid lots of money for this game. And apparently game devs are still incompetent when it comes to pvp and balancing profs. So why pay more? Show me some real good decisions and real good balancing.. we already paid and we already spent lots of time in your game. Now it's time for you to deliver. Some people been waitin patiently for ages to see a decent balance patch. Still waiting on that .... I for example since HoT days been waitin for my fav. prof to be balanced (thief).. and what i got was a slap on the face. So why the hell should we pay more? This game is "flavor of the month". And for peeps like me that don't want to switch classes and stick to their mains in every game modes.. this just doesnt work. U gotta keep switching classes to stay competetive. That's a NO for me. Besides... u notice how every class has just 1 build basically? What about diverse builds? What about something off-meta and some weird builds that people enjoy? GW2 used to promote itself as "choose whatever u want to be and play however u want". Nope. It's one way tunnel. Meta or be rekt. We'd probably need to pay like 10million bucks straight to balance devs accounts if we want to see some clear changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardolan.9123 Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > Where is the "no" option? > > I already paid for balance when I bought the game, expansions and gems. > > What's next? You buy the game and then a balance dlc? > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > Other: I will only pay for balance if this results in balance adjustments into my direction. ;) > > But really: Balance can be improved from where we are now, but I'm not willing to pay extra for it. (I miss this option in the poll) > @"otto.5684" said: > How about I already paid and devs should do what they are responsible for? > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > This is a ridiculous poll. The op hasn't even got an option for saying no. Dude do an internet search on how to construct a non-biased poll if you are attempting to be serious. > > Forgetting the poll absurdity. No I wouldn't pay for balance. Why would anyone want to pay someone that they know has zero competency in performing a desired service. Just one fact for this: unless you bring it to legal level of business, otherwise Anet CAN AND WILL do whatever they want to suit their best interest, including not doing what you think they should do, so customers in this scene really don't have the option to negotiate. And of course there's always the option to quit, but that's just common sense so I didn't list. Real quiters don't care to answer this poll. It's just like if Anet chose to not listen to the community's complaint, then the community's complaint of "Anet not listening to us" would be certainly also not listened to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomNexus.5324 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I would pay. I'd even pay a monthly subscription only for pvp mode if this could help to actually fix the balance and make the game mode really enjoyable again, even tho I really hate subscription models in general. But I'm afraid that wouldn't help either. Anet just shows us patch after patch, year after year, that they have either absolutely no interest in actually putting any effort into competitive game modes or they have absolutely no clue. Just look at what happened to eSport, they had every incentive to actually improve while they still had the chance but decided to rather let ESL-GW2 and also the entire game mode die, because they couldn't care less about balance and only focused on PvE alone. I don't know whether this is just because of money or just lack of effort tbh. I guess it's just completely irrelevant how fast/slow or easy/hard you can kill a boss so they can do whatever they want and just listen to the player Q_Q with 0 braincells involved. Oh wow.. I've just seen the Core Swap Event announcment.. wow anet.. wow.. congratulations on making an event that will imbalance WvW even more! I didn't think that was actually possible unless breaking the game itself but you've proven me wrong once more :+1: Just imagine.. Revenants roaming with Withdraw instead of one of those useless easy-to-outplay rev heals or basically any mesmer skill.. Don't get me wrong, I really love the idea tbh, my first thought was "WOW that is nice!" but when I'm thinking about that for just a bit it seems obvious.. My hope would be that GW2 gets a dual-class system just like GW1 had but then again.. balance is already meh so why even bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James.1065 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"Cardolan.9123" said: > As we know, game companies develop games to make money, thus they only consider how to make the most profit out of the least input as they should. In the case of GW2, it is unlikely for PVP balance to get the attention it needs if other aspects of this game (mainly PVE) promise better profit with less input required. Therefore to make it reasonable to spend resource on PVP balance, it needs to somehow yield a profit that's on par or better than the other aspects of this game. Sorry but I bought the game and the expansion.... I have paid already which is why I expect balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying.6509 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Where's the **no** option? I already payed the full price (and then some), and if they can't get their shit together any time soon I'd rather just move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Being trreated more as cash cow... where are the results? Where did my values as a customer concerns are prioritized go? **Until there is a need to transparency, collaboration and alignment, there will not be any will to spend money** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"Cardolan.9123" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > Where is the "no" option? > > > > I already paid for balance when I bought the game, expansions and gems. > > > > What's next? You buy the game and then a balance dlc? > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > Other: I will only pay for balance if this results in balance adjustments into my direction. ;) > > > > But really: Balance can be improved from where we are now, but I'm not willing to pay extra for it. (I miss this option in the poll) > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > How about I already paid and devs should do what they are responsible for? > > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > > This is a ridiculous poll. The op hasn't even got an option for saying no. Dude do an internet search on how to construct a non-biased poll if you are attempting to be serious. > > > > Forgetting the poll absurdity. No I wouldn't pay for balance. Why would anyone want to pay someone that they know has zero competency in performing a desired service. > > Just one fact for this: unless you bring it to legal level of business, otherwise Anet CAN AND WILL do whatever they want to suit their best interest, including not doing what you think they should do, so customers in this scene really don't have the option to negotiate. And of course there's always the option to quit, but that's just common sense so I didn't list. Real quiters don't care to answer this poll. > It's just like if Anet chose to not listen to the community's complaint, then the community's complaint of "Anet not listening to us" would be certainly also not listened to. I agree with you, the poll is poorly setup. But the sentiment that Anet performance in regards to class balance and sPvP support (and not only these areas btw) has been lacking as of late, is correct. Anet is bound to continuously support and update the game. The quality and the quantity of the effort they put determines how much income they can make. This is how MMOs operate. Anet can do and will do whatever they want. But if it is not what the customer is willing to buy/spend money on, it impacts their bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I'd be willing to pay for a better balance team :) One that has nothing to do with the current one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillze.7689 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Absolutely not, this issue should of been dealt with. No money will change that incompetence. So i will not be voting as i do not see a NO option to giving them free money for old rope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Money isn't always the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"MyPuppy.8970" said: > Money isn't always the answer. Yeah but no money also isn't a solution :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Yeah. Sure. If it gets the balance in order, you can give me a sub or charge access to pvp. I'm willing to pitch in gem/moneywise if it gets us: *A transparent view as to what the devs currently consider balance and why they consider things balanced, as well as plans for balancing/adjusting in the near future *More frequent balance patches *Some kind of frequent discourse between developers and players as to why certain playstyles are the way they are (A pvp devstream would be nice.) *A team of devs actively playing with/against what they push into the game Thanks for the constructive post, even if its regarding helping Anet see more ways to take money from my wallet. Kinda needed a bit more eyes actively suggesting how to fix things . Make no mistake though. if the service to the game mode does not address at the very least the major issues with its current state, I'm leaving. I am willing to help motivate, not be exploited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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