Sirius Lemuria Draconis.78 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 As a player from Belgium it's been a while now since I was last able to buy keys for the black lion chests thanks to some national laws here preventing the selling of RNG lootboxes for actual money. Personally I think it's good to get rid of all these "surprise mechanics" eventhough I never really bothered them existing if it was for something as small as the black lion chests or dye kits etc. With Belgium in the lead I'm sure that eventually a lot of countries and probably the whole of the EU will follow in these laws that forbid these kind of practises so I think it might be nice to start thinking about a proper solution so people in my situation can still get some of the nice rewards that are found within these chest. One solution I had in mind would be putting the Black Lion Statuette up for sale in the Gemstore, be it at the price of a black lion key or a little less. It wouldn't hurt any of the other players outside of my situation since every black lion chest comes with a statuette anyway. But this gives players like me the chance to also get lovely items like the Fire-Breathing Package or any of the other nice items sold in the Black Lion Statuette menu. I'm sure in there would be better idea's in the longterm, but right now while only a smaller percentage of the playerbase is affected, it would seems like a nice and fair solutions. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonatanen.1568 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 sounds like a pretty god idea, im sure it could use a little rework and a little adjusting but the general concept is a good idea, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I love this idea. I won't buy black lion keys because I don't gamble with real money (and converting gold to buy them whilst using real money to buy gems for other things gets far too complicated) so my only opportunity to get things from black lion chests is with occasional free keys. But I'd absolutely buy statuettes directly if they were available because then there's no gambling element to it. Of course some items are very experience that way. For example if a statuette cost 125 gems - the same as a key - then the Roaring Dragon Glider and other 60 statuette items would cost £80. Or £54 if it was possible to buy them in packs of 25 and 5 at the same price as keys, which is much better but still expensive. But very expensive is still preferable to items being impossible to get for some players. At least then you have the option to buy it, with real money or gold or a combination, and the option to choose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 The statuette exists specifically to reduce the impact of bad luck streaks for those spending gems on BL keys. I can't imagine that anyone doing so is going to consider it fair that people can bypass the process, unless it was priced much higher than a BL key. > this gives players like me the chance to also get lovely items like the Fire-Breathing Package or any of the other nice items sold in the Black Lion Statuette menu. These are available through another source already: the [black Lion Exclusives Chest](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Exclusives_Chest). Any of the account bound, uncommon items exclusive to BL chests eventually end up here, too. It's horribly overpriced today, since it hasn't dropped for a while. When it returns to the BL chest, it can eventually be obtained for under 500 gold (and sometimes under 300g, if you're patient enough). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirius Lemuria Draconis.78 Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > The statuette exists specifically to reduce the impact of bad luck streaks for those spending gems on BL keys. I can't imagine that anyone doing so is going to consider it fair that people can bypass the process, unless it was priced much higher than a BL key. How is it considered an unfair bypass if the statuette is a guaranteed drop from the chests? By selling them the same price as the keys the people buying the keys would still come out better since they would get both the statuette as well as the other drops, for the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristalyan.5728 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Sirius Lemuria Draconis.7864" said: > > How is it considered an unfair bypass if the statuette is a guaranteed drop from the chests? By selling them the same price as the keys the people buying the keys would still come out better since they would get both the statuette as well as the other drops, for the same price. > In this case I don't think too many persons will buy them. If you have 1 statuette + some extra chance of something good at the same price as 1 statuette .... Hm. By selling the statuette in this way in the countries where the laws don't allow the chests ANet will give a clear signal that it is only interested to make profit with any price, disregarding any ethic principle. I won't buy anymore any Gemstore product. In fact, I think I will uninstall the game at that moment. The only thing ANet can do (and close to be very correct) is to offer the statuettes **only** in the countries where BLTC are not allowed at a **lower** price than the price for a key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Selling statuettes at the price of a key, in the countries where keys cannot be sold, seems like the most ethical option that I have seen suggested so far. After all it is the people in those areas where keys may not be sold who decided that they do not wish to have the option to receive the contents of the chests beyond the statuette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder.3719 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Well if ANET would charge More than double the price of a black lion key for each statuette; than this would be a good alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donari.5237 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I've been convinced on every side of this with each new post. Seems to me there are very good arguments for and against. In the end I agree with the solution Cristalyan and Ashen suggest, offer this only in the no-chest countries. That way keys are still the way to get statuettes anywhere else, and in the no-chest countries players aren't completely frozen out of any BLC items. As to price, I can see arguments both for matching a key price and for reducing the price some, so I'd defer to ANet on figuring that part out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"OutOfOrder.3719" said: > Well if ANET would charge More than double the price of a black lion key for each statuette; than this would be a good alternative. I don't understand this thinking. Buying a black lion key already guarantees you a black lion statuette, plus 3-4 other items. But some people can't buy them because they live in a place where that's illegal. Why does buying just a statuette without any of the other items from a black lion chest need to cost more than twice as much to be acceptable to you? What's the difference between buying a key knowing you will get a statuette from the chest and buying a statuette directly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I think several of the comments on this thread are going too 'macro'. This is an isolated issue with a country who has outlawed BL chests, and the OP is trying to get to a solution where they can at least get statuettes so they can buy BL exclusive items. @ OP : I sympathize, but what you are asking is for a company to implement a fix to circumvent legislation passed by your local politicians. Should this extend to the rest of the EU as you suggest, there would surely be some changes. But for the moment, how much revenue do you think is generated solely from Belgium? I don't expect you to answer, as nobody but ANET knows, but given the omni-present problem of lack of resources, will ANET devote development time to try and figure out a way to monetize Belgium players around the new laws? Only if it was worth it for them to do so. So unless that revenue is substantial, or ANET decides to be proactive and design a workaround in case the rest of the EU falls Belgium's lead, I doubt anything will be in the near future. You could always lobby your politicians to revoke the legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > I think several of the comments on this thread are going too 'macro'. This is an isolated issue with a country who has outlawed BL chests, and the OP is trying to get to a solution where they can at least get statuettes so they can buy BL exclusive items. > > @ OP : I sympathize, but what you are asking is for a company to implement a fix to circumvent legislation passed by your local politicians. Should this extend to the rest of the EU as you suggest, there would surely be some changes. But for the moment, how much revenue do you think is generated solely from Belgium? > > I don't expect you to answer, as nobody but ANET knows, but given the omni-present problem of lack of resources, will ANET devote development time to try and figure out a way to monetize Belgium players around the new laws? Only if it was worth it for them to do so. So unless that revenue is substantial, or ANET decides to be proactive and design a workaround in case the rest of the EU falls Belgium's lead, I doubt anything will be in the near future. > > You could always lobby your politicians to revoke the legislation. One advantage this system has over other proposed solutions to this problem is it's relatively little work for Anet. Black Lion Statuettes already exist and are already updated regularly with new items from the chests. All they need to do is agree on a price and add them to the store - something they already have a process for since they add new items on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Make them tradeable and allow people to buy/sell them on the TP. In fact everything in the chest should be tradeable to be honest. Get something you don't like, doesn't mean someone else might not want it and now the item has a value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder.3719 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Well 25 black lion keys currently cost 2100 gems. So buying 25 black lion statuettes should at least cost 2100 gems, if not more. It would also upset previous black lion chest buyers, if the price was still the same. For example, Mount skins cost 400 gems to gamble, but cost 1200 to buy the skin by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etria.3642 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I really. Really. Really. Am not understanding why folks would charge more. Its like. You can buy a mcdonalds value meal for five bucks(drink which might be a shake or coffee, guaranteed sandwich, guaranteed fries, and if you're really lucky they accidentally put in a pie) but if you ONLY want the sandwich well, then it's six bucks. Wat. Let em buy their sandwich. For the person who said well it takes out the rng, it ONLY removes the fries and drink and dessert. The statuettes, IE sandwich, is guaranteed every time. What rng? Another example. If I buy 60 *keys* currently I will FOR SURE be able to buy the Dragon glider. If I buy 60 *statuettes* I will FOR SURE be able to buy the Dragon glider. The only rng is what is already there. I see no reason Anet couldn't put this in not only for Belgium but for minors, to remove any rng yet they can still get the statuette items that you can't buy on the tp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 If the statues are guaranteed with every chest anyway, and players would have to pay the same amount of gems as they would for a key, then i don’t see what the issue is. It’d be like charging players the key price for one of those guaranteed minis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos.2503 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Being in Europe, and seeing my current government's penchant for régulations, I wouldn't be surprised if that change came to my country as well. I think statuettes should be -nominally- cheaper. Atleast to reflect the fact that keys give you 3 more items. One needs to remember that you need several, and often -many- statuettes to get anything nice from the seller, so while there is no RNG, the difficulty of getting specific goodies is retained. By nominally cheaper, I mean Something like a 5 gem difference on individual statuettes. It may not be much, but in bulk it has an effect, and it should reflect that you're getting less than what a key would normally grant you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"OutOfOrder.3719" said: > Well 25 black lion keys currently cost 2100 gems. > > So buying 25 black lion statuettes should at least cost 2100 gems, if not more. It would also upset previous black lion chest buyers, if the price was still the same. > > For example, Mount skins cost 400 gems to gamble, but cost 1200 to buy the skin by itself. I think your airing on the dramatic tbh. This is about offering a solution that actually requires little to no work other than a price tag presented by anet... everything else is already devolped, artwork, coding and its done every day or three on the gemstore.. heck it's a win-win even at the price of a key for a single statty... I don't understand your issue. ANET get to open an alternative revenue source, affected players get the opportunity to purchase items out of reach at a price similar to what they would cost at the statty vendor (which are priced to cost more already). It also offers a future proof for ANET should eu countries expand on the decisions to ban loot boxes Where is the issue and why do you think they should be marked up even higher than they already are now... they still loose out on the other 3 loot spots and the chance of a special 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder.3719 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Well. If they offered those few countries that don’t have access to black lion chests/keys an option to buy black lion statuettes, I would have no problem with this. But if ANET were to offer black lion statuettes to be bought by everyone, I would want them to be more expensive than a regular black lion key. RNG comes with a discount, whereas paying for a specific skin should be more expensive. Although I understand you want to receive the best value possible and avoid RNG altogether, it will upset previous buyers that paid a premium for those items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder.3719 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Also 9 out of 10 black lion keys typically award junk items, with 1 out of 10 BLC award uncommon and rare category items. So in all honestly, you should be paying at least the price of a black lion key for 1 black lion statuette of 100 gems or more. The exception to this junk item rule is when you receive guarantee Wardrobe unlocks which has the potential to be more valuable than the uncommon or rare category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"OutOfOrder.3719" said: > Well. If they offered those few countries that don’t have access to black lion chests/keys an option to buy black lion statuettes, I would have no problem with this. > > But if ANET were to offer black lion statuettes to be bought by everyone, I would want them to be more expensive than a regular black lion key. > > RNG comes with a discount, whereas paying for a specific skin should be more expensive. > > Although I understand you want to receive the best value possible and avoid RNG altogether, it will upset previous buyers that paid a premium for those items. Do you understand that we're talking about [black Lion Statuette's](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette "Black Lion Statuette's") here? There is no RNG involved - if you use a key you are 100% guaranteed to get at least one of them. There's a chance you may get more. They are one of those 'junk items'. The one thing absolutely every black lion chest will always, always drop for everyone. No one in this topic has suggested that there should be a way to buy the RNG items from the chest, only to buy one of the guaranteed drops which every key will always give you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder.3719 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 And... you use those black lion statuettes to buy BLC exclusive items. These items have value as they cannot be obtained any other way than from Black Lion Chests . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 One BL Key (125 Gems) awards 1 Black Lion Statuette (always). Proposed: One Black Lion Statuette able to be purchased for 125 Gems. What is the misunderstanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos.2503 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"OutOfOrder.3719" said: > And... you use those black lion statuettes to buy BLC exclusive items. > > These items have value as they cannot be obtained any other way than from Black Lion Chests . What Dani and others are saying is : In the price of a black lion key, a black lion statuette is Already included. It makes no sense for an individual statuette to be More expensive when it gives you -Less-. It doesn't need to be much cheaper, but cheaper is what it should be. You're getting less value for what you're paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder.3719 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I keep stating that the cost for a black lion statuette should be at least the same cost as 1 BL key AT least the same, Equal, if not more ! 5,000 gems for 60 Black lion statuettes would be a fair price for the Elementalist Sword or other black lion Exclusive items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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