GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Griffon is not OP and mounts are just mobile HoT masteries. Raptor - almost like leyline gliding (in terms of horizontal movement) Springer - shrooms, updrafts Jackal - nuhoch wallows Skimmer - leylines again (get to areas gated by hard environment) Griffon is basically gliding on steroids but only if used when you climbed up with other mount or waypoint. It doesn't allow you to use updrafts and leylines and you also can't mount in combat. It is also less precise than actual gliding. In general, mounts are tools for movement and as mentioned above, they are copypasting HoT masteries. Nothing is obsolete because of mounts and calling griffon OP is simply not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovel.5706 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I have to agree with some of the people in this thread. The griffon does not replace the other mounts. The raptor is the fastest on flat terrain, scales wide gaps, and clumps mobs of enemies together on top of doing damage. The sand jackal can survive long falls by using its teleport ability, can teleport up hills when the raptor's leap fails, applies barrier and damage, and rivals the raptor when it comes to speed. The springer deals CC and jumps higher than any other mount which is really useful for navigating over high obstacles. The skimmer flies over bodies of water, its main ability when the jackal's masteries are maxed provides the most useful evade in my opinion, doesn't suffer from falling damage, glides/hovers between gaps, and heals when entering battles. The griffon is slow on land, doesn't jump as high as the springer, can't evade combat as well as the others, and only deals damage on its engage skill. It can only fly if diving from a high spot which is a questionable advantage given we have waypoints in the game that'll take us places many times faster than the griffon. The only advantage that I see is that it'll take you farther than the skimmer when it comes to aerial travel which is okay since the skimmer hovers over bodies of water and evades better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikal.4921 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @Vavume.8065 said: > For me mounts suffer the same problem that ranger pets suffer, we are forced to use specific ones to min/max, this completely ruins any sense of freedom of choice, and for me freedom of choice is huge, I really dislike having to swap between different mounts for different terrain, I would rather every mount has access to the same skills (via Masterys) and allow me to ride the mount I visually prefer all of the time, I could say a similar thing about ranger pets too but that is a different topic, I just hate being locked into using specific things meta that Anet has going, I'm currently lookin for a new game that offers me better freedom. I was going to say I wish we had just one mount that could do everything the raptor, springer, skimmer, and jackal could do. I find it really, really super-annoying that we have to switch mounts all the time. It's awkward, cumbersome, very user-unfriendly. Not to mention the frequency with which we are forced into drawn out fights before we can board the mount we are having to switch to. A choice of mounts with all the same attributes as you suggest works, too, or a choice of skins. I don't understand the thought processes behind this inelegant mount switching scheme, and that we can't can't mount when we have any sort of aggro. Not even HoT with its gliding was that mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallesafe.5932 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @ROMANG.1903 said: > Hello there > In this topic I'll try to adress two problems I've encountered concerning mounts in PoF. Before we begin, yes, I have both expansions, and yes, I have the griffon, so this is not a rage thread. > > The first problem I see is that, even with the diversity of mounts we have in the game, none of them compete with the Griffon. With a little trick, it can do almost everything the others mounts can do, albeit sometimes slower. And even without the griffon, others mounts compete with each other. Would the Jackal be better than the Raptor in any situation if it wasn't for the sand portals specially designed for it? The raptor jumps further and with more height... > So we end up with a lot of very cool mounts, but in most situations, only one or maybe two are really useful... > > I think that a way to adress this problem would be to change the way we have access to our mounts, as well as increasing their respective particularities. Making Raptor the best one for speed, the Bunny for height, finding a way that the Jackal's teleportation is useful without being a copycat of the Raptor's jump... > The griffon needs restrictions too. I don't like it as mutch as the others mounts, but I end up using it all the time because, well it's simply better than all the others... > Finding how to get in a specific area with tricky jumps is part of the fun, but when you can just fly there, I think it looses its interest. > > For now, I feel like it's just "Okay, I jump here with the Springer, now I make that Raptor Jump, now I take the Jackal to use that sand portal, now I go back to the Springer...". Perhaps making stables in larges cities where we can change our mounts, and making us able to only take one or two at a time, would fix the problem, and lead us to make real choices concerning which ones we choose to take with us in our adventures? > > _____ > [place smooth transition here] > _____ > > The second problem I'd like to adress is the obsolescence of the gliders compared to the griffon, or even the Skimmer. Why would I ever use my glider ever again? I can even use the Griffon mid air to save myself from a fall. It's uable in combat? It's a nice thing but does that alone really makes the difference? I think Arenanet should greatly reduce the Skimmer's "gliding" capacities. This would change nothing to how it can float on water or elevate itself above the ground, but it would certainly remove him from the glider's competition. > > And for the griffon, well... I think Arenanet should find a way to restrict its use, without removing the interest in acquiring it nor the fun in using it. But I have no idea of how to do that... I use all the mounts except the jackal. The jackal is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 For me, the Griffon is the least useful mount, but maybe I'm just not using it to its full potential. I find myself using Jackal mostly, and if I have to fly, I glide. There are very few situations where I find the Griffon the most useful option to cover space, and it's hard to control, so you can easily find yourself on the ground below. When the JP in Caldeon Forest was daily yesterday, there were people using the Griffon to get up to the chest, it was hilarious. Mostly I saw Bunnies though. I also find the Griffon the second least appealing mount we have, and hopping around on flat ground looks stupid. I think people are still showing off and use it in situations where it's not as useful as other mounts. Soon we will see less people use them all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irreverent.3594 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Mounts are perfect as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @Fallesafe.5932 said: > > @ROMANG.1903 said: > > Hello there > > In this topic I'll try to adress two problems I've encountered concerning mounts in PoF. Before we begin, yes, I have both expansions, and yes, I have the griffon, so this is not a rage thread. > > > > The first problem I see is that, even with the diversity of mounts we have in the game, none of them compete with the Griffon. With a little trick, it can do almost everything the others mounts can do, albeit sometimes slower. And even without the griffon, others mounts compete with each other. Would the Jackal be better than the Raptor in any situation if it wasn't for the sand portals specially designed for it? The raptor jumps further and with more height... > > So we end up with a lot of very cool mounts, but in most situations, only one or maybe two are really useful... > > > > I think that a way to adress this problem would be to change the way we have access to our mounts, as well as increasing their respective particularities. Making Raptor the best one for speed, the Bunny for height, finding a way that the Jackal's teleportation is useful without being a copycat of the Raptor's jump... > > The griffon needs restrictions too. I don't like it as mutch as the others mounts, but I end up using it all the time because, well it's simply better than all the others... > > Finding how to get in a specific area with tricky jumps is part of the fun, but when you can just fly there, I think it looses its interest. > > > > For now, I feel like it's just "Okay, I jump here with the Springer, now I make that Raptor Jump, now I take the Jackal to use that sand portal, now I go back to the Springer...". Perhaps making stables in larges cities where we can change our mounts, and making us able to only take one or two at a time, would fix the problem, and lead us to make real choices concerning which ones we choose to take with us in our adventures? > > > > _____ > > [place smooth transition here] > > _____ > > > > The second problem I'd like to adress is the obsolescence of the gliders compared to the griffon, or even the Skimmer. Why would I ever use my glider ever again? I can even use the Griffon mid air to save myself from a fall. It's uable in combat? It's a nice thing but does that alone really makes the difference? I think Arenanet should greatly reduce the Skimmer's "gliding" capacities. This would change nothing to how it can float on water or elevate itself above the ground, but it would certainly remove him from the glider's competition. > > > > And for the griffon, well... I think Arenanet should find a way to restrict its use, without removing the interest in acquiring it nor the fun in using it. But I have no idea of how to do that... > > I use all the mounts except the jackal. The jackal is garbage. It's good... for sand portals. And... um... There's something else I'm sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenon.5270 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I find having to stop and switch mounts increasingly annoying, because almost every time I stop to switch I wind up in a fight or flee situation. Either way I have to wait to get out of combat to get going again. Since the griffon is the most versatile of the five mounts, I find myself switching from the griffon only when absolutely necessary. Otherwise, it's griffon and glider for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuzz.6580 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I used Griffon at the very start a lot because I had it the 3th day of the xpac so it was somewhat special. now-a-days though I hardly use it. It sure is nice if you come from high ground but other then that I use all the other mounts a lot more. When doing full bounty trains I almost always use Jackal (very slightly slower then a raptor, but since terrain is mostly always uneven the Jackal pulls ahead, also a very important factor is the 3 dodges opposed to just 2, this means a lot more evading enemy fire). I use Skimmer when there is the environmental hazards (East vhabbi in particular). Bunny will always be used for vertical movement obviously and is probably the most important mount to have overall. (especially with mastery). Want the Griffon? sure get it, it is a luxury mount though. Don't have the gold? then stop complaining.. fyi it costs less than 20 euro if you really want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 since i always disliked gliders, i liked the griffon. Glider is very immersion break, It's modern, it's a sportsman's thing, no one has ever used it in wars, and if ever used it was in an exceptional situation, nobody uses glider not even in the jungle. Mounts make more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costepj.5120 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > Glider is very immersion break, It's modern, it's a sportsman's thing, no one has ever used it in wars, and if ever used it was in an exceptional situation, nobody uses glider not even in the jungle. Whereas there are many documented examples of armies riding to battle on the back of griffons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauderi.8706 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > everything the others mounts can do, albeit sometimes slower. Which becomes a deliberate balancing factor with the griffon. And it requires a high jumping point to glide, as the max height of its glide is only slightly higher than the griffon's starting point (per a statement released by ANet). How do you get to that high point? Sure, you could scramble up a wall looking for footholds to elevate from, but the Springer gets more height much faster. Griffon is fine as it is, and my default is still set to Raptor. The Raptor v Jackal thing, though... yeah, I agree. It's hard to justify using the Jackal for anything other than blindly jumping into sand portals that give no indication where one is going. (ANeeeet, if you're seeing this, maybe give portals arrows like Nuhoch Wallows, it's roughly the same thing.) I suppose the blinking regenerates a little faster which might give it gains on raptor's travel distance, but it's more vulnerable to the terrain. The mounts have their tradeoffs, and best-in-slot is situational. That's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 of course you still have choice. Any mount is faster than walking barefoot, and even then, if you want to walk barefoot, you can. It's you who wants to cross the most distance in the least time, so yea, then you have to take the fastest mount. No one is forcing you to use the gryffon, the raptor, or the flying carpet, just do whatever you like, the game isnt a race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @costepj.5120 said: > > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > Glider is very immersion break, It's modern, it's a sportsman's thing, no one has ever used it in wars, and if ever used it was in an exceptional situation, nobody uses glider not even in the jungle. > > Whereas there are many documented examples of armies riding to battle on the back of griffons? > > And bunnies. And canines as big as people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > @costepj.5120 said: > > > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > > Glider is very immersion break, It's modern, it's a sportsman's thing, no one has ever used it in wars, and if ever used it was in an exceptional situation, nobody uses glider not even in the jungle. > > > > Whereas there are many documented examples of armies riding to battle on the back of griffons? > > > > > > And bunnies. > And canines as big as people. In fantasias this is commo, and every way has that mix with "mythology". Glider is not even mythological, it is a modern tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > @costepj.5120 said: > > > > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > > > Glider is very immersion break, It's modern, it's a sportsman's thing, no one has ever used it in wars, and if ever used it was in an exceptional situation, nobody uses glider not even in the jungle. > > > > > > Whereas there are many documented examples of armies riding to battle on the back of griffons? > > > > > > > > > > And bunnies. > > And canines as big as people. > > In fantasias this is commo, and every way has that mix with "mythology". Glider is not even mythological, it is a modern tool. > So.... how much do you rage when you're in Shiverpeaks or Ascalon? With the Black Citadel/Charr vehicles and those Steam machines? Or the choppers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > @costepj.5120 said: > > > > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > > > Glider is very immersion break, It's modern, it's a sportsman's thing, no one has ever used it in wars, and if ever used it was in an exceptional situation, nobody uses glider not even in the jungle. > > > > > > Whereas there are many documented examples of armies riding to battle on the back of griffons? > > > > > > > > > > And bunnies. > > And canines as big as people. > > In fantasias this is commo, and every way has that mix with "mythology". Glider is not even mythological, it is a modern tool. > It is a fairly modern tool...as are tanks, helicopters, submarines, flamethrowers, rapid fire mortars, grenades, assault rifles, machine pistols, compound bows, chainsaws, and so many other things in gw2. GW2 is a modern(ish) setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > @costepj.5120 said: > > > > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > > > Glider is very immersion break, It's modern, it's a sportsman's thing, no one has ever used it in wars, and if ever used it was in an exceptional situation, nobody uses glider not even in the jungle. > > > > > > Whereas there are many documented examples of armies riding to battle on the back of griffons? > > > > > > > > > > And bunnies. > > And canines as big as people. > > In fantasias this is commo, and every way has that mix with "mythology". Glider is not even mythological, it is a modern tool. > Modern like sentient robots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenzify.6832 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Raptor is faster in more practical situations. Springer is better to reach higher places in more practical situations. Skimmer is the best on water, without question. I love the Jackal the most, but I'd have to say it's the least useful outside of PoF maps. I mean, unless you're going from point A to point B, and always have a high vantage point, the Griffon isn't exactly great for exploration, or if you're on the ground level and need to get somewhere. It's hardly practical to always have to find a really high place to have continued flight. And once you get down, then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @Frenzify.6832 said: > Raptor is faster in more practical situations. Springer is better to reach higher places in more practical situations. Skimmer is the best on water, without question. I love the Jackal the most, but I'd have to say it's the least useful outside of PoF maps. I mean, unless you're going from point A to point B, and always have a high vantage point, the Griffon isn't exactly great for exploration, or if you're on the ground level and need to get somewhere. It's hardly practical to always have to find a really high place to have continued flight. And once you get down, then what? I mostly find griffon the best to use when you're like level 2 and want to explore a level 80 area. And yes... it's fun as long as nothing sees you... ...and as long as you get waypoints along the way as checkpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dovienya.6597 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > I have to say, when the mounts were originally pitched, I thought they would be 90% the same with some slight advantages, and you could just pick the one that you liked the look of, so I was a bit saddened to find that they were more of a "tool box," with each having specific roles that it was good for, and was mostly outclassed outside that box. That said, I still like the different mounts, and there really is no way to balance them out to be roughly equal without killing what makes them interesting. I've really come to love how the Griffon plays. Generally agree, except that I like the toolbox aspect. My only small gripe is having to dismount one and mount another when following a group in situations where it requires both luck and speed to remount without killing a bunch of things. If you're the unlucky one focused and your group is inconsiderate, you get left behind. I also love the Griffon, but I disagree with OP that it displaces the other mounts. They all have their "toolbox" uses, and do very well at their use once accustomed to their mechanics and have the associated mastery lines completed. Sometimes I will even ride one when it isn't the most useful because I'm alone or with friends who don't care if we're going slower, just for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoarChaos.8320 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @Nikal.4921 said: > > @Vavume.8065 said: > > For me mounts suffer the same problem that ranger pets suffer, we are forced to use specific ones to min/max, this completely ruins any sense of freedom of choice, and for me freedom of choice is huge, I really dislike having to swap between different mounts for different terrain, I would rather every mount has access to the same skills (via Masterys) and allow me to ride the mount I visually prefer all of the time, I could say a similar thing about ranger pets too but that is a different topic, I just hate being locked into using specific things meta that Anet has going, I'm currently lookin for a new game that offers me better freedom. > I was going to say I wish we had just one mount that could do everything the raptor, springer, skimmer, and jackal could do. I find it really, really super-annoying that we have to switch mounts all the time. It's awkward, cumbersome, very user-unfriendly. Not to mention the frequency with which we are forced into drawn out fights before we can board the mount we are having to switch to. > > A choice of mounts with all the same attributes as you suggest works, too, or a choice of skins. I don't understand the thought processes behind this inelegant mount switching scheme, and that we can't can't mount when we have any sort of aggro. Not even HoT with its gliding was that mean. > Hell no, and never. Just reopens the complaints that they aren't able to strafe and move perfectly, on top of it's something we don't need at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikal.4921 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @MoarChaos.8320 said: > > @Nikal.4921 said: > > > @Vavume.8065 said: > > > For me mounts suffer the same problem that ranger pets suffer, we are forced to use specific ones to min/max, this completely ruins any sense of freedom of choice, and for me freedom of choice is huge, I really dislike having to swap between different mounts for different terrain, I would rather every mount has access to the same skills (via Masterys) and allow me to ride the mount I visually prefer all of the time, I could say a similar thing about ranger pets too but that is a different topic, I just hate being locked into using specific things meta that Anet has going, I'm currently lookin for a new game that offers me better freedom. > > I was going to say I wish we had just one mount that could do everything the raptor, springer, skimmer, and jackal could do. I find it really, really super-annoying that we have to switch mounts all the time. It's awkward, cumbersome, very user-unfriendly. Not to mention the frequency with which we are forced into drawn out fights before we can board the mount we are having to switch to. > > > > A choice of mounts with all the same attributes as you suggest works, too, or a choice of skins. I don't understand the thought processes behind this inelegant mount switching scheme, and that we can't can't mount when we have any sort of aggro. Not even HoT with its gliding was that mean. > > > > Hell no, and never. Just reopens the complaints that they aren't able to strafe and move perfectly, on top of it's something we don't need at all. Why would a unified mount re-open such a complaint? What has that to do with being forced to switch for every type of obstacle? Perhaps it's something we don't need, but it would sure be helpful for navigation. Imagine if we had to switch gilder types for ley-line riding, stealth gliding, and updrafts. And couldn't use a glider if we had aggro. We might not need a unified glider, but imagine how difficult and time-consuming it would be to have to get around without one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > @costepj.5120 said: > > > > @ugrakarma.9416 said: > > > > Glider is very immersion break, It's modern, it's a sportsman's thing, no one has ever used it in wars, and if ever used it was in an exceptional situation, nobody uses glider not even in the jungle. > > > > > > Whereas there are many documented examples of armies riding to battle on the back of griffons? > > > > > > > > > > And bunnies. > > And canines as big as people. > > In fantasias this is commo, and every way has that mix with "mythology". Glider is not even mythological, it is a modern tool. > Have you ever heard of Icarus, from Greek Mythology? That would have technically been the worlds first glider, so I think you can say the glider is part mythological in that sense. As for the current mounts, I have no problem switching between mounts on the fly...for one I try and not do it around mobs, which isn't that hard and I still find myself using the raptor more than anything, even in PoF maps(I end up going down hill more than up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanners.9428 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 ''I really dislike having to swap between different mounts for different terrain, I would rather every mount has access to the same skills (via Masterys) and allow me to ride the mount I visually prefer all of the time.'' +1 THIS and just add mount skills to those empty bar, 1st skill slot = raptor leap, 2nd skill slot = springer jump and so on. Utility slots are respective engaging skills for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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