GW2 isn't WoW

[Thundabolt.8541]

Typically there was bound to be an influx of suggestions for the game once WoW Classic arrived, and far be it from me to kerb the expression of wanting more out of GW2.

 

But I don't play GW2 for WoW inspired content. If I wanted an experience that only WoW offers, I'd just play WoW.

 

You get a lot more uniqueness out of games that stand up on their own two feet instead of bootlegging ideas from another game.

 

I just feel people currently playing WoW are thinking "I wish this was in GW2" simply because the games have similarities. But the whole point is still that they do their own thing instead of copying one another.

[Shep.4026]

Verdammt... I read the thread title and thought "Yes, a welcome opportunity to be sarcastic and snarky!" and then you end up making sense and saying things I can only agree with, forcing me to applaud you. Boring, so boring.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

It's funny to me how people leave a game because they're not happy with it, then come to a new game and complain that it doesn't have the same things as the other game.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Thundabolt.8541" said:

> I just feel people currently playing WoW are thinking "I wish this was in GW2" simply because the games have similarities. But the whole point is still that they do their own thing instead of copying one another.

 

I'd bet money the opposite is happening too. Maybe not with WoW Classic, because the whole point of that is it's recreating exactly the way the game was at launch, but with 'current' WoW. I know it happens with GW2 and Elder Scrolls Online - people will suggest things from this game should be in ESO and things from ESO should be in this game.

 

In fact I've done it myself. Mainly with relatively minor things, like saying GW2 could have something like ESO's personalities that change how your character stands and moves, so people who don't like the way their character looks now could change it without affecting everyone else. (For example they could have a personality that makes charr stand upright - so each person can choose which they want.) In my case it's partially because I'm rubbish at coming up with ideas completely from scratch, I find it much easier to build on someone else's starting point. (One reason me and my boss work well together, she's the opposite - she can throw out ideas all day long but will never think about how it would work.) But I think it's also easier to explain an idea when you've got an example to refer to, even if you still need to describe how it works because you can't assume everyone reading has played that other game.

 

I do sometimes think if all my favourite aspects of all my favourite games could somehow be combined into one maybe it would be my perfect game...but I'd want that to be something new, not changing the ones which already exist to make them all identical. And also I suspect that would be a horrible mess because some of those ideas are contradictory or virtually impossible to fit together. For example I like sandbox games where the player has dozens of options and almost total freedom to decide what to do, how and when, but I also like RPGs with long complicated storylines involving lots of characters and events which make permanent changes to the world and those two don't really work together, or at least not without spending a lot of time and money developing content only a minority of players will ever get to see.

 

Other than that fantasy situation which is never going to happen (even if I had any inclination to make it myself) I absolutely wouldn't want all the games I play to be the same because then there would be no point playing a lot of them, and that would be boring. And I like seeing how games do things differently. But sometimes I see an idea in one I think could work in another, and I can see how alongside other people's suggestions (and some people who do seem to want all games to be basically reskins of their personal favourite in the genre) I can see how it might come across as if that is what I'm asking for.

[Dawdler.8521]

WoW isnt GW2 either so it balances out.

[Arden.7480]

Both are unique in different ways.

 

But I notice that by the story: WoW has amazing, iconic characters, but GW2 has phenomenal storytelling. WoW tells the story by facial expressions, by maps themself, it's indirect, and GW2 tells the story much more directly - it happens what you actually see, more transparent.

 

[Danikat.8537]

Funny thing with these two games - there is a chance that at one point WoW could have been much more similar to GW1 and Guild Wars wouldn't have happened. That was back in 1999 or 2000 before Mike O'Brien, Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain left Blizzard to found their own studio and create their own game.

 

I remember hearing about the 'controversy' at the time, with rumours ranging from a "massive schism" with dozens of people quitting to "actually just a few people" to "oh but it's some fairly high up people" and annoyingly I stopped following the rumours before it got to what they were planning to do. However I never heard what the split was actually about other than differences of opinion about how to build an MMO. I suspect, given Mike O'Brien was the person who created the tech behind the original Battle.net used to enable online play for Warcraft 2, Starcraft and Diablo - which was notable for not requiring a subscription - that the plan for WoW to be pay-to-play was one of the points they disagreed on. And given GW1's relatively rapid development after Anet was founded (yes it took 5 years, but that's not much time to found a studio, develop an idea, get funding and build an MMO) I suspect they had quite a few other ideas they took with them as well. But I don't know which ones.

 

It's intriguing to me though because Warcraft 2 remains one of my favourite games (I like 1 and 3 as well), and I spent literally years imagining how great a Warcraft RPG could be, even going as far as making my own pen and paper one using adapted Fighting Fantasy rules years before the Warcraft RPG book was released. So when I first heard about WoW I thought it could be exactly the game I wanted, but by the time it was released I realised that, for a whole variety of reasons, it wasn't the game I wanted. A couple of years later I discovered Guild Wars and spent ages thinking if only WoW had been like that it would have been so utterly perfect for me. It was a bit heartbreaking to learn how close that might have come to happening.

 

(Incidentally I have a character called Alleria Wildrunner - Windrunner was taken - in both GW1 and 2 and every so often when I'm playing her I get told to "go back to WoW" and I always find it amusing, because to me that character is a reminder of why I don't play WoW, that the game I wanted never existed, but I got 2 pretty great ones in it's place.)

[Endless Soul.5178]

"Guild Wars 2 isn't World of Warcraft" - And thank goodness for that because I have 0% interest in playing World of Warcraft.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @"Thundabolt.8541" said:

> Typically there was bound to be an influx of suggestions for the game once WoW Classic arrived, and far be it from me to kerb the expression of wanting more out of GW2.

>

> But I don't play GW2 for WoW inspired content. If I wanted an experience that only WoW offers, I'd just play WoW.

>

> You get a lot more uniqueness out of games that stand up on their own two feet instead of bootlegging ideas from another game.

>

> I just feel people currently playing WoW are thinking "I wish this was in GW2" simply because the games have similarities. But the whole point is still that they do their own thing instead of copying one another.

 

They are both MMO's though, and people will naturally form opinions on features that a game may have that the other doesn't have. Just ignore it as it's bound to happen, especially if you don't care to engage in said discussions.

 

WoW does have better marketing though which provides longevity and better MMO presence overall. These are marketing aspects that could be compared that ArenaNet as a company should be looking at taking advantage of. This is outside of comparing the 2's in-game features though.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> Funny thing with these two games - there is a chance that at one point WoW could have been much more similar to GW1 and Guild Wars wouldn't have happened. That was back in 1999 or 2000 before Mike O'Brien, Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain left Blizzard to found their own studio and create their own game.

>

> I remember hearing about the 'controversy' at the time, with rumours ranging from a "massive schism" with dozens of people quitting to "actually just a few people" to "oh but it's some fairly high up people" and annoyingly I stopped following the rumours before it got to what they were planning to do. However I never heard what the split was actually about other than differences of opinion about how to build an MMO. I suspect, given Mike O'Brien was the person who created the tech behind the original Battle.net used to enable online play for Warcraft 2, Starcraft and Diablo - which was notable for not requiring a subscription - that the plan for WoW to be pay-to-play was one of the points they disagreed on. And given GW1's relatively rapid development after Anet was founded (yes it took 5 years, but that's not much time to found a studio, develop an idea, get funding and build an MMO) I suspect they had quite a few other ideas they took with them as well. But I don't know which ones.

>

> It's intriguing to me though because Warcraft 2 remains one of my favourite games (I like 1 and 3 as well), and I spent literally years imagining how great a Warcraft RPG could be, even going as far as making my own pen and paper one using adapted Fighting Fantasy rules years before the Warcraft RPG book was released. So when I first heard about WoW I thought it could be exactly the game I wanted, but by the time it was released I realised that, for a whole variety of reasons, it wasn't the game I wanted. A couple of years later I discovered Guild Wars and spent ages thinking if only WoW had been like that it would have been so utterly perfect for me. It was a bit heartbreaking to learn how close that might have come to happening.

>

> (Incidentally I have a character called Alleria Wildrunner - Windrunner was taken - in both GW1 and 2 and every so often when I'm playing her I get told to "go back to WoW" and I always find it amusing, because to me that character is a reminder of why I don't play WoW, that the game I wanted never existed, but I got 2 pretty great ones in it's place.)

 

Mike O'Brien worked on the RTS games (and Diablo) for Blizzard, had no involvement in World Of Warcraft. He then left Blizzard to work on GW1. Also, Patrick worked together with Mike and handled multiplayer aspects of those very games. They both had no involvement in WoW and actually left during WoW's Conceptual -> Alpha development stage. Jeff did work on WoW though.

[Randulf.7614]

GW2 whilst extremely weak in narrative storytelling has the superior pick up and play gameplay and I think that, with the way it shared the world with players is what keeps it strong.

 

GW2 marketing and self promotion is lacking and that has stifled it from being even bigger

 

 

 

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Thundabolt.8541" said:

> Typically there was bound to be an influx of suggestions for the game once WoW Classic arrived, and far be it from me to kerb the expression of wanting more out of GW2.

>

> But I don't play GW2 for WoW inspired content. If I wanted an experience that only WoW offers, I'd just play WoW.

>

> You get a lot more uniqueness out of games that stand up on their own two feet instead of bootlegging ideas from another game.

>

 

 

I hate this mentality from the Anti WoW community. These were the same people against Mounts and Raids. Stuff like that which can be fun as shown in the expansions we got here.

 

WoW did many things well which is why it historically been the biggest more successful MMO in western history. The developers there are humans as well. They make mistakes. But smart people learn to pick up on the good and leave the bad and innovate it in your own manner.

 

Many good ideas from Vanilla WoW would be great additions here. WvW for example could learn a lot from Old AV's game design elements on what it did right, and what it did wrong as its own developers killed it off. its current state suffers the same issues that WvW does, and WvW is also dying.

 

Dungeons in WoW were epic back in the day with great story elements. I would love that kind of thing going forward to replace these things we call Dungeons here.

 

Class Quest and background CLass story was great back then. Would love any improvement to storytelling in this game and new fun ways to get background lore on classes/elite specs and just the world in general.

 

> I just feel people currently playing WoW are thinking "I wish this was in GW2" simply because the games have similarities. But the whole point is still that they do their own thing instead of copying one another.

 

and No. WoW has always Copied others. Thats what makes their MMO so great over the years for so long. They know how to adopt concepts from other games into their own fancy for WoW. Warhammer Online had sieges and PvP themed, so WoTLK took those same things for example. Great stuff.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

Not playing WoW classic, what recent suggestions have been driven by its release? Not sure I have seen any that have stemmed from it or at least have been labeled as such.

[zealex.9410]

I sure as hell suggested an actual guild search function as well as proper friendlist with friend requests and all.

 

Tho i guess the uniqueness of gw2 in this aspects is to be scuffed?

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> Funny thing with these two games - there is a chance that at one point WoW could have been much more similar to GW1 and Guild Wars wouldn't have happened. That was back in 1999 or 2000 before Mike O'Brien, Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain left Blizzard to found their own studio and create their own game.

>

> I remember hearing about the 'controversy' at the time, with rumours ranging from a "massive schism" with dozens of people quitting to "actually just a few people" to "oh but it's some fairly high up people" and annoyingly I stopped following the rumours before it got to what they were planning to do. However I never heard what the split was actually about other than differences of opinion about how to build an MMO. I suspect, given Mike O'Brien was the person who created the tech behind the original Battle.net used to enable online play for Warcraft 2, Starcraft and Diablo - which was notable for not requiring a subscription - that the plan for WoW to be pay-to-play was one of the points they disagreed on. And given GW1's relatively rapid development after Anet was founded (yes it took 5 years, but that's not much time to found a studio, develop an idea, get funding and build an MMO) I suspect they had quite a few other ideas they took with them as well. But I don't know which ones.

>

> It's intriguing to me though because Warcraft 2 remains one of my favourite games (I like 1 and 3 as well), and I spent literally years imagining how great a Warcraft RPG could be, even going as far as making my own pen and paper one using adapted Fighting Fantasy rules years before the Warcraft RPG book was released. So when I first heard about WoW I thought it could be exactly the game I wanted, but by the time it was released I realised that, for a whole variety of reasons, it wasn't the game I wanted. A couple of years later I discovered Guild Wars and spent ages thinking if only WoW had been like that it would have been so utterly perfect for me. It was a bit heartbreaking to learn how close that might have come to happening.

>

> (Incidentally I have a character called Alleria Wildrunner - Windrunner was taken - in both GW1 and 2 and every so often when I'm playing her I get told to "go back to WoW" and I always find it amusing, because to me that character is a reminder of why I don't play WoW, that the game I wanted never existed, but I got 2 pretty great ones in it's place.)

 

GW1 was not a MMO. The developers that left Blizzard to form Anet did Diablo 2 I believe. its why GW1 is a 3D view Diablo game. The world is instanced like a Diablo game, cant jump, and have skills and classes .

 

WoW was a full on EQist MMO with Warcraft skin on top. EQ and Diablo are both RPGs with two radically different approaches. One is a MMO, other is a MO/SP game. WoW would have never been a major success like it was back then had it went that route.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > @"Thundabolt.8541" said:

> > Typically there was bound to be an influx of suggestions for the game once WoW Classic arrived, and far be it from me to kerb the expression of wanting more out of GW2.

> >

> > But I don't play GW2 for WoW inspired content. If I wanted an experience that only WoW offers, I'd just play WoW.

> >

> > You get a lot more uniqueness out of games that stand up on their own two feet instead of bootlegging ideas from another game.

> >

> > I just feel people currently playing WoW are thinking "I wish this was in GW2" simply because the games have similarities. But the whole point is still that they do their own thing instead of copying one another.

>

> I hate this mentality from the Anti WoW community. These were the same people against Mounts and Raids. Stuff like that which can be fun as shown in the expansions we got here.

>

> WoW did many things well which is why it historically been the biggest more successful MMO in western history. The developers there are humans as well. They make mistakes. But smart people learn to pick up on the good and leave the bad and innovate it in your own manner.

>

> Many good ideas from Vanilla WoW would be great additions here. WvW for example could learn a lot from Old AV's game design elements on what it did right, and what it did wrong as its own developers killed it off. its current state suffers the same issues that WvW does, and WvW is also dying.

>

> Dungeons in WoW were epic back in the day with great story elements. I would love that kind of thing going forward to replace these things we call Dungeons here.

>

> Class Quest and background CLass story was great back then. Would love any improvement to storytelling in this game and new fun ways to get background lore on classes/elite specs and just the world in general.

 

legion did also alot of class stuff, class campaigns with class themed rewards and challenges updating over the course of that expnasion.

 

Ff14 also does a similar thing each expansion with job quests thats deff a thing that would only improve gw2.

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> Not playing WoW classic, what recent suggestions have been driven by its release? Not sure I have seen any that have stemmed from it or at least have been labeled as such.

 

I most likely wont play it as well. But Pretending like Vanilla WoW and WoW in general didnt do many things right that could greatly improve GW2, is just wrong. Thats stuff I hate. I dont play WoW anymore but I hate the Anti-WoW attitude I see from other MMO game communities especially when said game isnt perfect either. Far from it.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> I sure as hell suggested an actual guild search function as well as proper friendlist with friend requests and all.

>

> Tho i guess the uniqueness of gw2 in this aspects is to be scuffed?

 

Have seen this in many MMOs, would you consider your request driven from some unique feature of classic though? If you had just posted a suggestion above I wouldn't have guessed your thoughts came from whatever classic released.

[zealex.9410]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > I sure as hell suggested an actual guild search function as well as proper friendlist with friend requests and all.

> >

> > Tho i guess the uniqueness of gw2 in this aspects is to be scuffed?

>

> Have seen this in many MMOs, would you consider your request driven from some unique feature of classic though? If you had just posted a suggestion above I wouldn't have guessed your thoughts came from whatever classic released.

 

I believe classic might not have a guild search function but looks like it has actual friendlists so thats something.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > Not playing WoW classic, what recent suggestions have been driven by its release? Not sure I have seen any that have stemmed from it or at least have been labeled as such.

>

> I most likely wont play it as well. But Pretending like Vanilla WoW and WoW in general didnt do many things right that could greatly improve GW2, is just wrong. Thats stuff I hate. I dont play WoW anymore but I hate the Anti-WoW attitude I see from other MMO game communities especially when said game isnt perfect either. Far from it.

 

I can't remember what philosopher first stated it but it has been restated in many fiction novels and coined slightly differently but the gest of it is what is of the utmost value, timeliness. I am not bashing WoW but in some cases being earlier to market has an edge and gets you credit for many things even if multiple people already had that idea as well. I don't fault companies for taking ideas from each other, if anything I think they should. Waiting for a game to take GW2's dodge and ESO's block mechanic together, I would hate it when it lagged but would be a nice combo. Same, if GW2 had ESO's pubic dungeons or a queuing system for raids that would be nice features. Take Warhammer's parry stats and system, that would be cool here and I think it could work well in this environment. But from the OP's original statement I haven't seen a flood of suggestions that I would gauge are from the release of classic or that I would contribute to it. And as all forums, there are a lot of the sky are falling posts to be had.

[Rauderi.8706]

But they do kinda crib off one another.

WoW added GW2-style mob tagging, resource lockers, and starting with Timeless Isle was pretty much the GW2 experience, including jumping puzzles. :p

GW2 added . . raids. ..k.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

Same, if GW2 had ESO's pubic dungeons or a queuing system for raids that would be nice features.

 

I keep thinking the opposite - I wish ESO had a LFG system like GW2 where you can choose which group to join instead of being dumped into the first one with a space. The current system in ESO only really works for speed runners with meta-builds, and then only because they'll kick anyone who doesn't meet their requirements and hope the next person dropped into their group is a better fit and that's set up a perception that the group finder is only for people with meta builds looking for a speed run and for anything else you're expecting to stand outside the dungeon spamming zone chat, or ask your guild. It would also be nice if their LFG tool could be used for more than just group dungeons.

 

Maybe the best would be a combination of both - you can let the game choose a group for you, with the understanding that you have absolutely no control over who you're grouped with, or you can choose a group or advertise for one, with the understanding that this requires more effort and communication on your part.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> Maybe the best would be a combination of both - you can let the game choose a group for you, with the understanding that you have absolutely no control over who you're grouped with, or you can choose a group or advertise for one, with the understanding that this requires more effort and communication on your part.

 

As usual, having optional markers could be a big help.

[✓] Speed run

[ ] Story mode

etc.

 

Then the system can help usher things along, as long as players use the system remotely properly.

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > Not playing WoW classic, what recent suggestions have been driven by its release? Not sure I have seen any that have stemmed from it or at least have been labeled as such.

>

> I most likely wont play it as well. But Pretending like Vanilla WoW and WoW in general didnt do many things right that could greatly improve GW2, is just wrong. Thats stuff I hate. I dont play WoW anymore but I hate the Anti-WoW attitude I see from other MMO game communities especially when said game isnt perfect either. Far from it.

 

I don't think this thread means "don't suggest any changes in GW2 because of WoW" or that there isn't anything that different games can learn from each other.

 

I think they are just saying that it is okay for the games to have some differences and that the games have different philosophies. So people shouldn't make suggestions to make the game more like WoW if those suggestions would change a major thing that makes the game different and is what draws people to GW2 instead of WoW. Or that just because WoW has something, it doesn't make it a must-have for every mmo on the market.

 

Things like the gear treadmill in which each new expansion or major content update gives gear with better stats than the one before. This just doesn't belong in GW2, it was even a decent part of the games marketing that your top-gear gear would remain top-tier gear.

[zionophir.6845]

WoW Classic is akin to Microsoft Making 64 bit compilers to make 32 bit files.

 

and yes, They already got 32 bit compilers specifically for that task.

 

that's the trend in Computer Science/Information Technology - going forward and then retarding..