My Wishlist for Warrior Balance

[Pati.2438]

Hey Guys. Im playing Warrior since Gamerelease and have some wishthings for my Mainclass. First, my main Thing for this ubdates are that Spellbraker should be a boonrip tank Specialisation and Berserker should be the Damage Specialisation but need a bit more Defence. (Sorry for this bad english but you hopefully know what i mean here). So here are my wishes for Warrior:

 

**Strength**:

Merciless Hammer: This skill switch his Slot with Hightened Focus.

Brave Stride: Gain 2 Stacks of Stability for 8 Seconds if you go Infight.

Great Fortitude: This skill switch his Slot with Sundering Mace.

 

**Discipline**:

Hightened Focus: This skill switch his Slot with Merciless Hammer. It Gain 3 seconds Quickness for a 50% Hitchance (Get a 10 Seconds Cooldown).

 

**Defence**:

Sundering Mace: This skill switch his Slot with Great Fortitude.

Lesser Balance Stance (Last Stand): This skills cooldown is reduced to 60 seconds.

 

**Spellbraker**

No Escape: Switched for a skill that will remove more boons.

Magebane-Tether: This Tether no longer gain might (PvP-WvW only)

 

**Berserker**

Eternal Champion: Gain Stability (1 Stack per Second for 1 Second) while your in Berserker Mode.

 

_Utility Skills_:

Bull`s Charge: Reduce the Damage of this skill for 50%.

"Fear me!" : This skill now get an monition load( 5 seconds cooldown). This skill have an 60 Seconds cooldown

[Hitman.5829]

Is this some kinda of a joke? or is this for reals? I ain't going to assume you are a real warrior player! This looks more like:

"My Wishlist for Warrior nerf"

 

Of all the thins that you said, the only ones that make sense are:

* Brave Stride: Gain 2 Stacks of Stability for 8 Seconds if you go Infight. (this should be on a 15 sec cooldown, not only when you go in combat)

* Great Fortitude: This skill switch his Slot with Sundering Mace.

* No Escape: Switched for a skill that will remove more boons.

* "Fear me!" : This skill now get a munition load( 5 seconds cooldown). This skill have an 60 Seconds cooldown

[Pati.2438]

Yes it should be a nerf too warr (for PvP only) to made this classes like what they should be. I say that in the first sentence. I would give a nerf to Spellbraker in PvP/WvW cause it seems to me that this Specialisation in combination with Mighty tether seems to be too broken (specialy with the rampage tether comb). As i said it is my personal Option for that Specialsiation :)

[Lighter.5631]

yes kill magebane please, it's op and single handily carry the entire class

and makes berserker pointless

 

also remove might give healing power please, i even take magebane in my theory craft support build just because it gives most might so more healing power

[Hitman.5829]

> @"Pati.2438" said:

> Yes it should be a nerf too warr (for PvP only) to made this classes like what they should be. I say that in the first sentence. I would give a nerf to Spellbraker in PvP/WvW cause it seems to me that this Specialisation in combination with Mighty tether seems to be too broken (specialy with the rampage tether comb). As i said it is my personal Option for that Specialsiation :)

 

let me get this straight, we lose:

* Our F1 tier 3 abilities by going spell breaker

* We lose synergy with berserker's power

* We lose synergy with cleansing ire

* We lose synergy with adrenal health

* We lose synergy with Destruction of the Empowered

* We lose stun duration on mace and hammer F1 and they get replace by 1 sec stun duration.

 

Are you keeping track of how much power we are losing? If no, dont worry I have the answer, just by making F1 abilities go from tier 3 to tier 1, that is a nerf of -33% damage.

Are you keeping track of how much sustain we are losing? if no, don't worry, I have the answer, we lose adrenal healing effectiveness by -66.66%, we lose cleansing ire effectiveness by -66.66%...

 

In any case:

* Spell breaker gets the power lost from Magebane Tether, Attacker's Insight, and Pure Strike and now you are asking for a nerf to those traits that balance the power lost by nerfing tier 3 F1 abilities.

* Spell breaker gets the sustain from full counter, revenge counter and Guard Counter.

 

We lose powerful F1 abilities that synergy with warrior traits in exchange for the traits that you want nerfed. Thus, why I wrote my previous comment

 

"Is this some kinda of a joke? or is this for reals? I ain't going to assume you are a real warrior player! This looks more like:

"My Wishlist for Warrior nerf"

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> yes kill magebane please, it's op and single handily carry the entire class

> and makes berserker pointless

>

> also remove might give healing power please, i even take magebane in my theory craft support build just because it gives most might so more healing power

 

When one trait is carrying a whole class, then something is wrong already, nerfing said trait without compensating for it makes the class become useless.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> yes kill magebane please, it's op and single handily carry the entire class

> and makes berserker pointless

>

> also remove might give healing power please, i even take magebane in my theory craft support build just because it gives most might so more healing power

 

Warrior craps out might. Magebane Tether is just another way to crap it out. Signet Mastery is another way to crap out might. So is Decapitate spam.

 

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"Pati.2438" said:

> > Yes it should be a nerf too warr (for PvP only) to made this classes like what they should be. I say that in the first sentence. I would give a nerf to Spellbraker in PvP/WvW cause it seems to me that this Specialisation in combination with Mighty tether seems to be too broken (specialy with the rampage tether comb). As i said it is my personal Option for that Specialsiation :)

>

> let me get this straight, we lose:

> * Our F1 tier 3 abilities by going spell breaker

> * We lose synergy with berserker's power

> * We lose synergy with cleansing ire

> * We lose synergy with adrenal health

> * We lose synergy with Destruction of the Empowered

> * We lose stun duration on mace and hammer F1 and they get replace by 1 sec stun duration.

>

> Are you keeping track of how much power we are losing? If no, dont worry I have the answer, just by making F1 abilities go from tier 3 to tier 1, that is a nerf of -33% damage.

> Are you keeping track of how much sustain we are losing? if no, don't worry, I have the answer, we lose adrenal healing effectiveness by -66.66%, we lose cleansing ire effectiveness by -66.66%...

>

> In any case:

> * Spell breaker gets the power lost from Magebane Tether, Attacker's Insight, and Pure Strike and now you are asking for a nerf to those traits that balance the power lost by nerfing tier 3 F1 abilities.

> * Spell breaker gets the sustain from full counter, revenge counter and Guard Counter.

>

> We lose powerful F1 abilities that synergy with warrior traits in exchange for the traits that you want nerfed. Thus, why I wrote my previous comment

>

> "Is this some kinda of a joke? or is this for reals? I ain't going to assume you are a real warrior player! This looks more like:

> "My Wishlist for Warrior nerf"

 

You do realize that Berserker's Power and Adrenal Health apply 1 stack per bar spent and that so long as you use bursts skills that more stacks are applied right @"Hitman.5829"? Full Counter -> F1 -> Full Counter in a large fight still gives you 3 stacks of Berserker's Power and Adrenal Health. With Might Makes Right and Magebane Tether there is a great deal of sustain as well (see @"Lighter.5631"'s comment if you need too) , in fact there is probably more sustain than if you did not take Spellbreaker.

 

Spellbreaker is a very well rounded E-Spec for both offense and sustain, which is part of why people complain about it and why FC got a damage nerf in WvW.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Doubling the power of brave stride, the worst warrior trait, isnt helping much.

 

0 x 2 = 0

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Brave Stride would be better if it granted Stability whenever you gained swiftness, or something more repeatable. Or if it pulsed Stability for the first 8s of combat. That'd be better as well.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Brave Stride would be better if it granted Stability whenever you gained swiftness, or something more repeatable. Or if it pulsed Stability for the first 8s of combat. That'd be better as well.

 

If this ever happened and the trait became worth to take the matchup against necro and any class that gains boon corruption would be terrible.

 

It needs some other way of triggering that won't be OP or detrimental to use as well as be fairly controllable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Well Shake It Off clears a large amount of condi, so call that fair.

[Lighter.5631]

 

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Brave Stride would be better if it granted Stability whenever you gained swiftness, or something more repeatable. Or if it pulsed Stability for the first 8s of combat. That'd be better as well.

 

warrior crap out stability,brave stride is just one way to shit out stability, stance is a way to crap out stability, signet is another way to crap out stability, rampage is other way

[ButterPeanut.9746]

Bull's Charge is the only skill that you could justify needing a nerf, IMO. The real shame is that nobody is talking about how horrible all of the meditations skills are. I would argue that spb meditations are currently the worst/least used utility skill type in the game. Imminent Threat and Sight Beyond Sight have never been used in any game mode, and Featherfoot, break enchantments, and bubble are just sad versions of what they were at launch. These utilities need a full rework IMO.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

>[blahblahblah]

> "Is this some kinda of a joke? or is this for reals? I ain't going to assume you are a real warrior player! This looks more like:

> "My Wishlist for Warrior nerf"

 

He wrote "My wishlist for warrior balance". You do understand the difference between "balance" and "buff", right? You seem to be a little confused here.

[Lighter.5631]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > yes kill magebane please, it's op and single handily carry the entire class

> > and makes berserker pointless

> >

> > also remove might give healing power please, i even take magebane in my theory craft support build just because it gives most might so more healing power

>

> When one trait is carrying a whole class, then something is wrong already, nerfing said trait without compensating for it makes the class become useless.

 

Yea, of course there's something wrong, but if you don't remove the single trait that carry an entire class, you won't expose the trashy parts.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > yes kill magebane please, it's op and single handily carry the entire class

> > > and makes berserker pointless

> > >

> > > also remove might give healing power please, i even take magebane in my theory craft support build just because it gives most might so more healing power

> >

> > When one trait is carrying a whole class, then something is wrong already, nerfing said trait without compensating for it makes the class become useless.

>

> Yea, of course there's something wrong, but if you don't remove the single trait that carry an entire class, you won't expose the trashy parts.

 

Yeaa... But then it takes months, years or even a whole expansion for arenanet to fix it or introduce some other broken trait that carries the whole class, starting this whole circlejerk of how "OP" warrior is again.

 

Imo the simplicity of the class is the whole reason why its either seen as op (especially by low skilled players who dont see what the warrior is going to do from a mile away) or as performing underwhelmingly.

 

There is no real depth to it, so anet can only play with dmg numbers rly to tweak it.

If you lower the dmg so new ppl dont get roflstomped, you have no way of killing someone who knows what he is doing, if you increase the dmg to be able to kill ppl who know what they are doing you will crush low skilled players (and low skilled players will crush others on different classes with it, because of its simplicity)

 

 

[Hitman.5829]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > yes kill magebane please, it's op and single handily carry the entire class

> > > > and makes berserker pointless

> > > >

> > > > also remove might give healing power please, i even take magebane in my theory craft support build just because it gives most might so more healing power

> > >

> > > When one trait is carrying a whole class, then something is wrong already, nerfing said trait without compensating for it makes the class become useless.

> >

> > Yea, of course there's something wrong, but if you don't remove the single trait that carry an entire class, you won't expose the trashy parts.

>

> Yeaa... But then it takes months, years or even a whole expansion for arenanet to fix it or introduce some other broken trait that carries the whole class, starting this whole kitten of how "OP" warrior is again.

>

> Imo the simplicity of the class is the whole reason why its either seen as op (especially by low skilled players who dont see what the warrior is going to do from a mile away) or as performing underwhelmingly.

>

> There is no real depth to it, so anet can only play with dmg numbers rly to tweak it.

> If you lower the dmg so new ppl dont get roflstomped, you have no way of killing someone who knows what he is doing, if you increase the dmg to be able to kill ppl who know what they are doing you will crush low skilled players (and low skilled players will crush others on different classes with it, because of its simplicity)

>

>

 

Pretty much this, I just want to add that due to warrior design as a power melee class without stealth, teleports, defensive boons, healing skills, slow attacks and long channeling skills; Anet's design for the warrior has been that of a brute fighter that excels at both:

* Survival by means enduring damage

* Dealing damage by means of brute force

 

If you look at warrior skills, most of them deal pure strike damage and are single target, unlike the skills of other professions that deal damage and also apply conditions, give defensive boons and/or buffs.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

Meh... the claim about magebane carrying the whole class is straight up false.

 

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > yes kill magebane please, it's op and single handily carry the entire class

> > > > and makes berserker pointless

> > > >

> > > > also remove might give healing power please, i even take magebane in my theory craft support build just because it gives most might so more healing power

> > >

> > > When one trait is carrying a whole class, then something is wrong already, nerfing said trait without compensating for it makes the class become useless.

> >

> > Yea, of course there's something wrong, but if you don't remove the single trait that carry an entire class, you won't expose the trashy parts.

> There is no real depth to it, so anet can only play with dmg numbers rly to tweak it.

 

I mean... I'm not sure what else you'd expect from a warrior class, which is a pretty well known 'simple yet efficient' brute force archetype since.... like... always. And I'm not only talking about the GW2 here.

I'll ask this question yet again: if you expect something else from the class you want to play then why pick warrior and then complain that it plays like warrior? Seriously, I don't understand that fixation of turning warrior into another class. If you want to play another class, pick another class.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Meh... the claim about magebane carrying the whole class is straight up false.

>

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > > yes kill magebane please, it's op and single handily carry the entire class

> > > > > and makes berserker pointless

> > > > >

> > > > > also remove might give healing power please, i even take magebane in my theory craft support build just because it gives most might so more healing power

> > > >

> > > > When one trait is carrying a whole class, then something is wrong already, nerfing said trait without compensating for it makes the class become useless.

> > >

> > > Yea, of course there's something wrong, but if you don't remove the single trait that carry an entire class, you won't expose the trashy parts.

> > There is no real depth to it, so anet can only play with dmg numbers rly to tweak it.

>

> I mean... I'm not sure what else you'd expect from a warrior class, which is a pretty well known 'simple yet efficient' brute force archetype since.... like... always. And I'm not only talking about the GW2 here.

> I'll ask this question yet again: if you expect something else from the class you want to play then why pick warrior and then complain that it plays like warrior? Seriously, I don't understand that fixation of turning warrior into another class. If you want to play another class, pick another class.

 

Did i ever say i wanted it to change to a very complex class? No.

I like its simplicity.

I just stated the fact, that its simplicity makes it hard to balance.

 

The most complex i would like to see would be to be able to use 2 different burst skills, like mainhand and offhand burst (gives another option, but doesnt rly impact the simplicity much)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Warrior is simple. It should be simple as hit key do damage, hit key get buff, hit key CC enemy. However, as has been mentioned in this thread that makes it difficult to balance. Make it too good and the Noobs QQ on the forums until it gets nerfed. Make it too bad and no one takes it. Interestingly that is the current state of warrior, noobs are QQing and longtime warrior players are saying the opposite. So it must be close to a decent balance at least in some regards with some builds.

 

Frankly, all the other classes have a plethora of ways to evade, teleport, blind, block, or heal(or barrier) through damage so I'm fine if Warrior gets some damage tweaks to deal with it. It's not like we're going to teleport to someone in the middle of a long windup skill and hit them before they can react like the other Heavy armor classes can.

 

If increasing damage numbers is not the answer, then reducing cast times would certainly make a difference.

 

As to @"Pati.2438"'s list, Brave Stride could use a rework, Heightened Focus could be reworked (frankly revert it back to the increased crit chance per bar of adrenaline please, like berseker's power but for crit chance or crit damage), but the other changes are somewhat out of left field.

 

Fear Me on an ammo system might be too powerful if its a 5s CD between using a charge. Eternal Champion making Berserk Mode pulse stab is lazy design, No Escape is fine, Magebane Tether NOT granting Might is just outright malicious to ask for although I can see merit to reducing the Might gain in PvP and maybe WvW, and the trait shuffling makes no sense.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > Meh... the claim about magebane carrying the whole class is straight up false.

> >

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > > > yes kill magebane please, it's op and single handily carry the entire class

> > > > > > and makes berserker pointless

> > > > > >

> > > > > > also remove might give healing power please, i even take magebane in my theory craft support build just because it gives most might so more healing power

> > > > >

> > > > > When one trait is carrying a whole class, then something is wrong already, nerfing said trait without compensating for it makes the class become useless.

> > > >

> > > > Yea, of course there's something wrong, but if you don't remove the single trait that carry an entire class, you won't expose the trashy parts.

> > > There is no real depth to it, so anet can only play with dmg numbers rly to tweak it.

> >

> > I mean... I'm not sure what else you'd expect from a warrior class, which is a pretty well known 'simple yet efficient' brute force archetype since.... like... always. And I'm not only talking about the GW2 here.

> > I'll ask this question yet again: if you expect something else from the class you want to play then why pick warrior and then complain that it plays like warrior? Seriously, I don't understand that fixation of turning warrior into another class. If you want to play another class, pick another class.

>

> Did i ever say i wanted it to change to a very complex class? No.

> I like its simplicity.

> I just stated the fact, that its simplicity makes it hard to balance.

>

> The most complex i would like to see would be to be able to use 2 different burst skills, like mainhand and offhand burst (gives another option, but doesnt rly impact the simplicity much)

 

Whoops, I guess I got blindsided by the usual demanding tone in this subforum, so I misinterpreted what you wrote. I've reread your post again and obviously it's my bad.

[Lighter.5631]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Meh... the claim about magebane carrying the whole class is straight up false.

>

 

actually it's true, you can replace anything in the build and still achieve simillar result as long as you have magebane, but not without it.

the whole SB pvp meta build center around having maximum magebane uptime or your effectiveness will be drastically reduced

 

 

also about complexity, why can't warrior be complex, i thought the purpose of having elite spec is to change one class's play style, yet warrior has been simple for the entirety.

 

[Rettan.9603]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Magebane Tether NOT granting Might is just outright malicious to ask for although I can see merit to reducing the Might gain in PvP and maybe WvW

 

I think magebane is not the biggest problem at Spellbreaker. Maybe reduce the Dmg multiplier because of the multiplier stacking, but the might is fine as it is.

 

The bigger problem (that nobody speaks about) is Attackers Insight. Its dmg boost is enormous (esp. with all the dmg modifiers) and in the current setup its easy to have a high uptime.

The first nerf of Spellbreaker should be that. (Replace the stacks with Might could be an option.)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Rettan.9603" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > Magebane Tether NOT granting Might is just outright malicious to ask for although I can see merit to reducing the Might gain in PvP and maybe WvW

>

> I think magebane is not the biggest problem at Spellbreaker. Maybe reduce the Dmg multiplier because of the multiplier stacking, but the might is fine as it is.

>

> The bigger problem (that nobody speaks about) is Attackers Insight. Its dmg boost is enormous (esp. with all the dmg modifiers) and in the current setup its easy to have a high uptime.

> The first nerf of Spellbreaker should be that. (Replace the stacks with Might could be an option.)

 

Magebane Tether is a 10% dmg modifier, and attacker's insight is 45 power and 45 ferocity per stack, which still need to be acquired.

That 10% modifier is fairly normal for a Grandmaster Trait by the way.

 

Meanwhile Fatal Frenzy on Berserker is 300 power (same with condi) in BMode, and Bloody Roar is a 15% or 20% increase depending on game mode.

 

So relative to other available modifiers Magebane and Attaker's Insight are either on par with or behind depending on game mode. The amount of potential boon ripping and refresh of burst skills on a successful FC is more of an issue, and I think boon ripping fueling Attacker's Insight maybe too much for it. One Kick with a sigil of absorption and you're looking at 2-5 stacks already relative to the game mode. I do not think the issue is the raw amount of bonuses that can be racked up with Attacker's Insight, but with the rate you can do so.

[DKRathalos.9625]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

 

> If you look at warrior skills, most of them deal pure strike damage and are single target, unlike the skills of other professions that deal damage and also apply conditions, give defensive boons and/or buffs.

 

Sadly even the damage get outclassed by revenant which also have pure strike damage CoR.