Thief - Upcoming Balance Notes - 10/1/2019

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > I really do not see much in the way of downsides to the patches for thief. Of the changed SA skills I am still leery on the benefits of taking CIS. I really am going to have to test this further. In particular how that siphoning works against multiple enemies and a blind or with Combo's used in a field as it would appear those the times the skill maximized.

> >

> > As commented elsewhere the changes to improv might be a boost as far as I am concerned if that wording means what I think it does. I really did not use it just for that dagger storm reuse as much as others seem to have.

> >

> > If it a sure thing rest of any one of those utility skills on cool down , it will be fine and especially in a build that can reuse steal more easily via mercy or the s/x reset. The lower cool down on swipe also helps here.

>

> CiS is still a *gigantic* downgrade from the previous versions. It does siphon from every single blinded foe, but you have to get a total of 15 blinds just to gain as much healing as stopping the crit from 1 autoattack wouldve done. So even in the least useful scenario for the old CiS, it still massively outperforms the current one (Among other things because you dont get 15 blinds ever. Even Black Powder into Heartseeker, with both hitting 5 players is only 10 players. ). The current version is so insanely undertuned, that a 1000% buff would not even make it good.

 

That makes zero sense. Blinded foes deals zero damage. So while you're healing from siphon health, your target does no damage due to blind. If blind prevented a 2k damage, you practically extended your effective health by 2k, then add the siphon healing to that.

 

CIS works in conjunction with Shadow Siphoning; siphon health when you go in stealth, then siphon again when you sneak attack. If you take Leeching, you get to siphon 3 times (CiS, Shadow, Leeching). So in the same trait line, all the siphoning adds up that's why they are very careful not to give too much to CiS.

 

EDIT:

In my S/D build, I siphon with CnD, then siphon twice using tactical strike front stab (CiS + Shadow), then siphon again from leeching. At the current iteration, it's not that great, but this change might improve things.

[babazhook.6805]

The way I look at the old CIS over the new is in the Old you were not outputting damage when you were mitigating damage. The numbers on CIS as exists now are just too low to warrant taking over the other two traits. With revised numbers this MIGHT be more competitive. It is siphon after all with health being drained even as you gain the same.

 

With higher numbers it might be worthwhile taking more blind sources. Weave stealth for shadow flickering and keep the blinds up even as life drained with attacks. There some great potential mitigation there.

 

It will be one of the first things I test on patch day. Superior sigil of Mischief anybody?

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> @"UNOwen.7132"

>

> Use Smoke Screen and Pistol or Rifle. Blinds for days. Not saying the updated numbers will be enough but if you want to try using the trait the best way is to Sneak Attack through the Smoke Screen (each bullet is a 100% finisher and applies a total of 5 blinds if all shots hit). Dancing Dagger is also a 100% finisher.

>

> TLDR: drop Smoke Screen and combo projectiles through it at a busy mid fight and you will blind a lot of targets.

 

You wont, actually. On Pistol, your projectiles all have a 20% chance to blind a single target. Well, the ones you use anyway. So most likely, youll get (assuming 3 unloads) about 4 blinds. Remember, you need 15 just to possibly break even. You wont blind nearly enough doing that. And thats the issue.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > I really do not see much in the way of downsides to the patches for thief. Of the changed SA skills I am still leery on the benefits of taking CIS. I really am going to have to test this further. In particular how that siphoning works against multiple enemies and a blind or with Combo's used in a field as it would appear those the times the skill maximized.

> > >

> > > As commented elsewhere the changes to improv might be a boost as far as I am concerned if that wording means what I think it does. I really did not use it just for that dagger storm reuse as much as others seem to have.

> > >

> > > If it a sure thing rest of any one of those utility skills on cool down , it will be fine and especially in a build that can reuse steal more easily via mercy or the s/x reset. The lower cool down on swipe also helps here.

> >

> > CiS is still a *gigantic* downgrade from the previous versions. It does siphon from every single blinded foe, but you have to get a total of 15 blinds just to gain as much healing as stopping the crit from 1 autoattack wouldve done. So even in the least useful scenario for the old CiS, it still massively outperforms the current one (Among other things because you dont get 15 blinds ever. Even Black Powder into Heartseeker, with both hitting 5 players is only 10 players. ). The current version is so insanely undertuned, that a 1000% buff would not even make it good.

>

> That makes zero sense. Blinded foes deals zero damage. So while you're healing from siphon health, your target does no damage due to blind. If blind prevented a 2k damage, you practically extended your effective health by 2k, then add the siphon healing to that.

>

> CIS works in conjunction with Shadow Siphoning; siphon health when you go in stealth, then siphon again when you sneak attack. If you take Leeching, you get to siphon 3 times (CiS, Shadow, Leeching). So in the same trait line, all the siphoning adds up that's why they are very careful not to give too much to CiS.

>

> EDIT:

> In my S/D build, I siphon with CnD, then siphon twice using tactical strike front stab (CiS + Shadow), then siphon again from leeching. At the current iteration, it's not that great, but this change might improve things.

 

Im strictly comparing it to the old version, which prevented crits on you while in stealth. That part is what we lost in the change. And blind only lasts for one hit. The problem is that even if you just prevented one autoattack worth of crit with the old version, it still is way ahead of the new one until you blind 15 times (which you wont. Youll barely blind 5 times).

 

No, it really doesnt. CiSs siphoning is so incredibly weak, it legitimatelly will *never* matter (because in order for it to matter, you have to die within 300 hp of your max hp. Usually you will be overkilled by considerably more. Likewise, shadow siphoning is not good. The thing is, previously you had 25% less damage in stealth *and* no crits in stealth. These siphons need to be hitting for hundreds of times before they can approach that level of usefulness. And they simply do not.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > I really do not see much in the way of downsides to the patches for thief. Of the changed SA skills I am still leery on the benefits of taking CIS. I really am going to have to test this further. In particular how that siphoning works against multiple enemies and a blind or with Combo's used in a field as it would appear those the times the skill maximized.

> > > >

> > > > As commented elsewhere the changes to improv might be a boost as far as I am concerned if that wording means what I think it does. I really did not use it just for that dagger storm reuse as much as others seem to have.

> > > >

> > > > If it a sure thing rest of any one of those utility skills on cool down , it will be fine and especially in a build that can reuse steal more easily via mercy or the s/x reset. The lower cool down on swipe also helps here.

> > >

> > > CiS is still a *gigantic* downgrade from the previous versions. It does siphon from every single blinded foe, but you have to get a total of 15 blinds just to gain as much healing as stopping the crit from 1 autoattack wouldve done. So even in the least useful scenario for the old CiS, it still massively outperforms the current one (Among other things because you dont get 15 blinds ever. Even Black Powder into Heartseeker, with both hitting 5 players is only 10 players. ). The current version is so insanely undertuned, that a 1000% buff would not even make it good.

> >

> > That makes zero sense. Blinded foes deals zero damage. So while you're healing from siphon health, your target does no damage due to blind. If blind prevented a 2k damage, you practically extended your effective health by 2k, then add the siphon healing to that.

> >

> > CIS works in conjunction with Shadow Siphoning; siphon health when you go in stealth, then siphon again when you sneak attack. If you take Leeching, you get to siphon 3 times (CiS, Shadow, Leeching). So in the same trait line, all the siphoning adds up that's why they are very careful not to give too much to CiS.

> >

> > EDIT:

> > In my S/D build, I siphon with CnD, then siphon twice using tactical strike front stab (CiS + Shadow), then siphon again from leeching. At the current iteration, it's not that great, but this change might improve things.

>

> Im strictly comparing it to the old version, which prevented crits on you while in stealth. That part is what we lost in the change. And blind only lasts for one hit. The problem is that even if you just prevented one autoattack worth of crit with the old version, it still is way ahead of the new one until you blind 15 times (which you wont. Youll barely blind 5 times).

>

> No, it really doesnt. CiSs siphoning is so incredibly weak, it legitimatelly will *never* matter (because in order for it to matter, you have to die within 300 hp of your max hp. Usually you will be overkilled by considerably more. Likewise, shadow siphoning is not good. The thing is, previously you had 25% less damage in stealth *and* no crits in stealth. These siphons need to be hitting for hundreds of times before they can approach that level of usefulness. And they simply do not.

 

I now get 33 percent less damage while revealed. I find this superior to 25 less damage while in stealth because I am dealing damage when revealed. You are trying to compare apples and oranges lumping in the old CIS with the old Shadows resilience. These were two separate traits.

 

The only comparison you should be making is the old CIS versus the new and the old CIS did not provide 25 percent less damage when stealthed.

 

Again I quite liked the OLD cis in my DE build but have since adapted to the changes. As example (and I speak to WvW) one current build uses Flickering shadows (33 percent less damage) along with long boon duration in a DE build for using mali 7 for high protection uptime with damage mitigating food. Protection is 33 percent mitigation as well and this runs with Iron sight (10 percent mitigation) and the food that gives 10 percent mitigation. The build also has a high weakness uptime on the enemy. That is a whole lot of mitigation that happens WHEN I am dealing damage.

 

So back to old CIS versus new. I can deal with that loss of the ability not to be critted while stealthed. I just do not see any reason to take the new trait over the other two GM traits. I am going to test this come tuesday to see if it now more competitive. I do not feel it needs 1000 times more the heal as it obvious the intent of this skill is to force to thief into being less passive when using stealth. I do agree that those numbers might still need tweaking upwards , but again I will wait till I test it.

[saerni.2584]

@"UNOwen.7132"

 

Not unload. Sneak Attack is 100% on each bullet.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Maybe arenet should spend some time buffing daggers so u dont have to kill someone with a thousand paper cuts. I've tried pure power and condi and either way they are weak ass garbage dps compared to sword. Shame cuz their more fun.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > I really do not see much in the way of downsides to the patches for thief. Of the changed SA skills I am still leery on the benefits of taking CIS. I really am going to have to test this further. In particular how that siphoning works against multiple enemies and a blind or with Combo's used in a field as it would appear those the times the skill maximized.

> > > > >

> > > > > As commented elsewhere the changes to improv might be a boost as far as I am concerned if that wording means what I think it does. I really did not use it just for that dagger storm reuse as much as others seem to have.

> > > > >

> > > > > If it a sure thing rest of any one of those utility skills on cool down , it will be fine and especially in a build that can reuse steal more easily via mercy or the s/x reset. The lower cool down on swipe also helps here.

> > > >

> > > > CiS is still a *gigantic* downgrade from the previous versions. It does siphon from every single blinded foe, but you have to get a total of 15 blinds just to gain as much healing as stopping the crit from 1 autoattack wouldve done. So even in the least useful scenario for the old CiS, it still massively outperforms the current one (Among other things because you dont get 15 blinds ever. Even Black Powder into Heartseeker, with both hitting 5 players is only 10 players. ). The current version is so insanely undertuned, that a 1000% buff would not even make it good.

> > >

> > > That makes zero sense. Blinded foes deals zero damage. So while you're healing from siphon health, your target does no damage due to blind. If blind prevented a 2k damage, you practically extended your effective health by 2k, then add the siphon healing to that.

> > >

> > > CIS works in conjunction with Shadow Siphoning; siphon health when you go in stealth, then siphon again when you sneak attack. If you take Leeching, you get to siphon 3 times (CiS, Shadow, Leeching). So in the same trait line, all the siphoning adds up that's why they are very careful not to give too much to CiS.

> > >

> > > EDIT:

> > > In my S/D build, I siphon with CnD, then siphon twice using tactical strike front stab (CiS + Shadow), then siphon again from leeching. At the current iteration, it's not that great, but this change might improve things.

> >

> > Im strictly comparing it to the old version, which prevented crits on you while in stealth. That part is what we lost in the change. And blind only lasts for one hit. The problem is that even if you just prevented one autoattack worth of crit with the old version, it still is way ahead of the new one until you blind 15 times (which you wont. Youll barely blind 5 times).

> >

> > No, it really doesnt. CiSs siphoning is so incredibly weak, it legitimatelly will *never* matter (because in order for it to matter, you have to die within 300 hp of your max hp. Usually you will be overkilled by considerably more. Likewise, shadow siphoning is not good. The thing is, previously you had 25% less damage in stealth *and* no crits in stealth. These siphons need to be hitting for hundreds of times before they can approach that level of usefulness. And they simply do not.

>

> I now get 33 percent less damage while revealed. I find this superior to 25 less damage while in stealth because I am dealing damage when revealed. You are trying to compare apples and oranges lumping in the old CIS with the old Shadows resilience. These were two separate traits.

>

> The only comparison you should be making is the old CIS versus the new and the old CIS did not provide 25 percent less damage when stealthed.

>

> Again I quite liked the OLD cis in my DE build but have since adapted to the changes. As example (and I speak to WvW) one current build uses Flickering shadows (33 percent less damage) along with long boon duration in a DE build for using mali 7 for high protection uptime with damage mitigating food. Protection is 33 percent mitigation as well and this runs with Iron sight (10 percent mitigation) and the food that gives 10 percent mitigation. The build also has a high weakness uptime on the enemy. That is a whole lot of mitigation that happens WHEN I am dealing damage.

>

> So back to old CIS versus new. I can deal with that loss of the ability not to be critted while stealthed. I just do not see any reason to take the new trait over the other two GM traits. I am going to test this come tuesday to see if it now more competitive. I do not feel it needs 1000 times more the heal as it obvious the intent of this skill is to force to thief into being less passive when using stealth. I do agree that those numbers might still need tweaking upwards , but again I will wait till I test it.

 

I was comparing the -25% to the new Shadow siphoning. for that matter ,the 33% while revealed is not as good, actually. Because its a lot harder to reactively reveal yourself to avoid damage than to stealth yourself to avoid damage. And youre not gonna be using a build that tries to maximize revealed uptime (in no small part because most stealth attacks suck).

 

Yeah I did. Old CiS preventing one crit auto is better than new one after 15 blinds. And I can already tell you, its gonna be just as useless. The intent was not to make the thief less passive when using stealth (because the old trait was awful if you used stealth passively). I cant say exactly what their intent was, but running the trait into the ground has quite high odds. But to say that the numbers might need tweaking upwards is like saying that the sun is a bit warm. The numbers are hilariously pathetic. Consider the trait "vampiric presence" that Necro has. It gives siphoning on not just blinds, but every single hit. To not just the necro himself, but every ally around him as well. On a master Trait. And the values are only 1/4 as bad as the CiS one. Its by all accounts massively better than CiS's life siphon. And you know what? It still isnt very good (its picked because the other 2 traits are even worse).

 

To put it bluntly, if you have to blind 10 times for 660 health (or now, 1320 health), which a thief wont even be able to do, youre just not gonna see any benefit from it. With how often a thief is realistically going to blind someone, each blind would have to siphon upwards of at least 660 health. Even then itd be a massive downgrade to the previous versions and quite bad. The problem is that thief is not a 5v5 or higher class. Its a class for 2v1s and 3v2s. So you have to balance it around those. But at some point, the AoE potential becomes a problem. If you could simply limit it to 1 player thatd allow for the buffs it needs, but Im not sure thats even doable. As is, the best way to handle this trait is to revert it completely.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> @"UNOwen.7132"

>

> Not unload. Sneak Attack is 100% on each bullet.

 

Question; as far as I know, life leech from sneak attack and venoms do not stack, they overwrite. So would the cloaked in shadow life leech be overwritten in a similar way?

[saerni.2584]

Let’s put this into context with the other traits:

 

Leeching Venoms (now faster stacking) x6 and Shadow Siphon now heal for a base 2455. Then you get 132 healing per blind.

 

A Sneak Attack through a Smoke Screen dropped on top of the target will blind x5 and apply an additional x1 blind per second. Assuming you add in a Dancing Dagger or get another few blinds off you are looking at around 8 blinds easily. That’s another 1056 healing for a combined potential total of roughly 3500. That’s without taking any healing power.

 

Its combined potential with other SA traits and other sustain options is really high. That’s probably why they are being careful here.

 

 

[saerni.2584]

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132"

> >

> > Not unload. Sneak Attack is 100% on each bullet.

>

> Question; as far as I know, life leech from sneak attack and venoms do not stack, they overwrite. So would the cloaked in shadow life leech be overwritten in a similar way?

 

Let me test this because overwriting each other sounds like a bug to me.

[saerni.2584]

@"Jugglemonkey.8741"

 

They don’t overwrite. I get Shadow Siphoning and then I get all six Leeching Venom procs.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> Let’s put this into context with the other traits:

>

> Leeching Venoms (now faster stacking) x6 and Shadow Siphon now heal for a base 2455. Then you get 132 healing per blind.

>

> A Sneak Attack through a Smoke Screen dropped on top of the target will blind x5 and apply an additional x1 blind per second. Assuming you add in a Dancing Dagger or get another few blinds off you are looking at around 8 blinds easily. That’s another 1056 healing for a combined potential total of roughly 3500. That’s without taking any healing power.

>

> Its combined potential with other SA traits and other sustain options is really high. That’s probably why they are being careful here.

>

>

 

Most of your siphoning came from just leeching venoms. A trait that isnt even considered very good mind you. The fact that you had to go out of your way to use exactly smoke screen and sneak attack just to possibly get 1k healing (which is assuming the enemy doesnt block) isnt exactly impressive. Especially when you consider how little stealth access you get with mainhand pistol without sacrificing your damage.

 

Nah, the other SA traits (specifically Leeching Venom) have the high potential. CiS's potential is non-existent. They are not being careful, they are simply letting the trait remain dead. Frankly, if youre already taking the massive damage hit that is picking SA, it better be damn good. Given that its not even 1/10 as good as the old CiS trait (which noone used), youre not even close. As I said, either buff the trait massively, or revert it. Personally, Id prefer the revert.

[saerni.2584]

My point is that you have to consider the total healing.

 

I can personally get off over 15 blinds easily. I just pointed out that 8 is where you get 1k or 1.5k if you count Shadow Siphon. That’s a bonus heal and doesn’t include the maximum you could heal from other traits/abilities.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> My point is that you have to consider the total healing.

>

> I can personally get off over 15 blinds easily. I just pointed out that 8 is where you get 1k or 1.5k if you count Shadow Siphon. That’s a bonus heal and doesn’t include the maximum you could heal from other traits/abilities.

 

The point is that you have to consider the total healing *while also considering the damage prevented by the old trait*. What do you think is better? Healing 3k without any damage prevention, or healing 2k while also preventing 2k+ damage? Because thats what youre comparing it to. And 2k is the bare minimum, youre likely preventing a whole lot more damage, while youre not gonna be healing more than 1k.

 

15 blinds over the course of an entire fight, maybe. 15 blinds in the same time the old trait saves you 2k damage? Not even remotely close.

[saerni.2584]

Ok, but that trait is gone.

 

It’s not really useful to compare the current iteration to a completely deprecated trait.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> Ok, but that trait is gone.

>

> It’s not really useful to compare the current iteration to a completely deprecated trait.

 

I disagree, because were comparing the new CiS to the old One. If the old one didnt see much play, why would a vastly inferior one do? For that matter, since the old one still was vastly superior, they should either admit that the new trait is hot garbage and just revert it, or stop being so scared and go in with big buffs that maybe could make it be as good as the old one.

[SoulSin.5682]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> **Can Improvisation recharge my Heal or Elite?**

> Improvisation recharges one of your utility skills. It does not recharge the Heal or the Elite.

>

 

To the subject.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > My point is that you have to consider the total healing.

> >

> > I can personally get off over 15 blinds easily. I just pointed out that 8 is where you get 1k or 1.5k if you count Shadow Siphon. That’s a bonus heal and doesn’t include the maximum you could heal from other traits/abilities.

>

> The point is that you have to consider the total healing *while also considering the damage prevented by the old trait*. What do you think is better? Healing 3k without any damage prevention, or healing 2k while also preventing 2k+ damage? Because thats what youre comparing it to. And 2k is the bare minimum, youre likely preventing a whole lot more damage, while youre not gonna be healing more than 1k.

>

> 15 blinds over the course of an entire fight, maybe. 15 blinds in the same time the old trait saves you 2k damage? Not even remotely close.

 

I am in full agreement here. See my post regarding using runes of sanctuary on a thief. They key to healing is not the skills on an individual basis. It is using them in conjunction with other traits that heal. This is the same thing with damage. One can look at something like sigil of force on its own and say "this is crap..On a 10k hit all I get is 500 added damage. 500 damage is nothing" (i know the number not precise just using as example). It is NOT nothing when the other traits that add damage are all tallied up.

 

An in game example of existing heals are those Tormenting runes. The heal off an application of torment is lower then this siphon heal BUT i use these things on my p/d thief because all those heals add up allowing me to actively remain in a battle inflicting damage as I heal.

 

Personally I would not trait the new CIS and take just that as an additional heal source and for that matter I am as interested in the life siphon damage on that build in any case. I was trying leeching venoms old style in a build for a time. The life leech add was a significant damage add to the condition build I was testing it with. The problem was that there was little else in SA that was helping that specific build at the time.

 

If I am in SA and can add three or 400 damage on each of those blinds, it might be worthwhile. The larger question is which weaponset and trait loadout has enough blind sources to make this thing work.

[Exitus.3297]

I like that they are giving Swipe a little love... Given, I would rather if they just buffed the range.

 

I'm glad they are giving non-acro S/D builds some love. None of the changes are huge but I'm okay with that, I would rather they take it slow than overshoot it. Good stuff ANet.

 

EDIT: It just occurred to me that will the 20 second cooldown on Improvisation also be looked at? Because that means if a Daredevil who got Sleight of Hand uses Swipe off of cooldown, it will only recharge an ability every other Swipe.

[Xenji.4907]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > > @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > > > * Improvisation: Instead of recharging an entire skill category at random, this trait now recharges one of your equipped utility skills at random.

> > >

> > > Question: I don't like the wording on this. "Utility Skills" only means one of the 3 utility skills equipped not including healing and elite skills. If it includes healing and elite, it might not be too bad. But if "utility skills" only...aaahh...no thank you. Resetting an Elite skill is the only reason I would take this.

> >

> > I can't believe I didn't notice that. Shooot... this concerns me. Are they quietly getting rid of dagger storm improv COMBO!?

>

> Yeah, it's very carefully worded and quite sneaky.

 

 

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

> **Can Improvisation recharge my Heal or Elite?**

> Improvisation recharges one of your utility skills. It does not recharge the Heal or the Elite.

 

Boom...

 

[Alatar.7364]

> @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > > > @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > > > > * Improvisation: Instead of recharging an entire skill category at random, this trait now recharges one of your equipped utility skills at random.

> > > >

> > > > Question: I don't like the wording on this. "Utility Skills" only means one of the 3 utility skills equipped not including healing and elite skills. If it includes healing and elite, it might not be too bad. But if "utility skills" only...aaahh...no thank you. Resetting an Elite skill is the only reason I would take this.

> > >

> > > I can't believe I didn't notice that. Shooot... this concerns me. Are they quietly getting rid of dagger storm improv COMBO!?

> >

> > Yeah, it's very carefully worded and quite sneaky.

>

>

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

> > **Can Improvisation recharge my Heal or Elite?**

> > Improvisation recharges one of your utility skills. It does not recharge the Heal or the Elite.

>

> Boom...

>

 

Shit

[roamzero.9486]

> @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > > > @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > > > > * Improvisation: Instead of recharging an entire skill category at random, this trait now recharges one of your equipped utility skills at random.

> > > >

> > > > Question: I don't like the wording on this. "Utility Skills" only means one of the 3 utility skills equipped not including healing and elite skills. If it includes healing and elite, it might not be too bad. But if "utility skills" only...aaahh...no thank you. Resetting an Elite skill is the only reason I would take this.

> > >

> > > I can't believe I didn't notice that. Shooot... this concerns me. Are they quietly getting rid of dagger storm improv COMBO!?

> >

> > Yeah, it's very carefully worded and quite sneaky.

>

>

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

> > **Can Improvisation recharge my Heal or Elite?**

> > Improvisation recharges one of your utility skills. It does not recharge the Heal or the Elite.

>

> Boom...

>

 

It should still be really good if you get a guaranteed utility proc (thief has a lot of good utilities like shadowstep). But if its like, RNG and the steal can pick a utility that's not on CD over one that is then it seems like a straight nerf.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

It almost certainly will reset a random slotted utility whether on CD or not as most would consider it OP if the player had that much control over which utility was reset. Especially since its thief in question

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"roamzero.9486" said:

> > @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > > @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > > > > @"Xenji.4907" said:

> > > > > > * Improvisation: Instead of recharging an entire skill category at random, this trait now recharges one of your equipped utility skills at random.

> > > > >

> > > > > Question: I don't like the wording on this. "Utility Skills" only means one of the 3 utility skills equipped not including healing and elite skills. If it includes healing and elite, it might not be too bad. But if "utility skills" only...aaahh...no thank you. Resetting an Elite skill is the only reason I would take this.

> > > >

> > > > I can't believe I didn't notice that. Shooot... this concerns me. Are they quietly getting rid of dagger storm improv COMBO!?

> > >

> > > Yeah, it's very carefully worded and quite sneaky.

> >

> >

> > > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > > Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

> > > **Can Improvisation recharge my Heal or Elite?**

> > > Improvisation recharges one of your utility skills. It does not recharge the Heal or the Elite.

> >

> > Boom...

> >

>

> It should still be really good if you get a guaranteed utility proc (thief has a lot of good utilities like shadowstep). But if its like, RNG and the steal can pick a utility that's not on CD over one that is then it seems like a straight nerf.

 

From Buff perspective: 33% chance to reset Assassin's signet on steal. "OP one-shot damage" river cry ensues. How about Binding Shadow reset for condi build 25 stacks of Vuln on one go?

 

From Nerf perspective: No Elite reset. Booo!!