Obtena.7952 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 So your thread is just a rant about all the things you don't like about WvW and NOT really about a roadmap of the game. Probably should rename the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > So your thread is just a rant about all the things you don't like about WvW and NOT really about a roadmap of the game. Probably should rename the title. > no friend, it's not so difficult to understand, i want anet to explain us what are they gonna do with pvp and wvw in this game, which changes are they expecting, how this game will improve, what are they planning for us, how they expect us to play idk if you share all the changes i've seen past 2 years, but i see a group of devs catering over pve/new players, giving them easy ways to avoid fights, inmortal abusive builds, and now turning wvw an **open world pvp zone** into a pve zone with a few red named players running around waving on their mounts either that or just be honest and tell us, we only want to improve gem store content, and the story, we don't care anymore about pvp/wvw so all of us still waiting for something can just move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > So your thread is just a rant about all the things you don't like about WvW and NOT really about a roadmap of the game. Probably should rename the title. > So.., you figured you’d comment twice about... the same thing? > @"Obtena.7952" said: > I love how the request for a roadmap always reveals the true intention of the poster's disapproval of the game. So let's talk about that Warclaw again. Clever. Maybe offer something new to the thread? Off topic posts aren’t constructive. Back to topic; @"kharmin.7683" had a good point further up with the thread he linked. There has been a ‘semi roadmap’ Where the OP is.., right I guess? Is that often that info is sporadic at best, and honestly, feels as if (yeah,, that whole feelings thing is crap) it’s a continued stall tactic. Hard to get behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Offair.2563" said: > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > [https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/ "https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/") > > > > Wish they would redo this quarterly and share honestly. I believe they don't since posters will go to the "Soon" emote. But a general roadmap ongoing would be a nice to have. > > Ask yourself how they got the soon emote in first place. Yup by not sharing anything.. I would disagree, I watched it more that they shared a little and then they go dark. To me that's the problem, it's the tease and lack of follow up that I think they could do better with. On top of that all programmers/developers are terrible at estimating time even when they are allowed to be focused on projects. But when they go to share the "oops we ran into delays" the forum goes to the soon emote. I know if I was a dev reading a post with that posted in it that wouldn't motivate me, it would do the opposite and that would delay things further. Which also leads to the self-fulfilling reaction of why don't the devs read the forum. Cause and effect. All that said that's also where you should have levels between developers and gamers that should be responsible with providing that high level roadmap to both inform, interest and not over hype but give a directional basis on where we are headed. As kharmin linked, we got that early this year, wouldn't mind similar updates in the future. I know if I was them I would be targeting each of the game modes with updates staged over time interlaced with the festivals and events. If they have that general plan share it. We know some of it already...Templates, Halloween, ?????, Christmas, ????, .... Example, if they knew that the Warclaw changes were closing in on release, that would have been fair to share as an upcoming release. Last we heard about it was after Warclaw was released prompting many to wonder if it had been dropped. Balance team is doing much better with starting to share earlier ideas with players. That allowed people to consider and understand intent. Nothing worse then to be re-gearing a toon to a new build to find out the build you were setting up for just got axed. Long story short communication is a fine balancing act and it isn't easy, posters though can help encourage it by keeping it constructive, informative and reconsidering when they feel the need to take jab at dev post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > @"Offair.2563" said: > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > [https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/ "https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/") > > > > > > Wish they would redo this quarterly and share honestly. I believe they don't since posters will go to the "Soon" emote. But a general roadmap ongoing would be a nice to have. > > > > Ask yourself how they got the soon emote in first place. Yup by not sharing anything.. > > I would disagree, I watched it more that they shared a little and then they go dark. To me that's the problem, it's the tease and lack of follow up that I think they could do better with. On top of that all programmers/developers are terrible at estimating time even when they are allowed to be focused on projects. But when they go to share the "oops we ran into delays" the forum goes to the soon emote. I know if I was a dev reading a post with that posted in it that wouldn't motivate me, it would do the opposite and that would delay things further. Which also leads to the self-fulfilling reaction of why don't the devs read the forum. Cause and effect. > > All that said that's also where you should have levels between developers and gamers that should be responsible with providing that high level roadmap to both inform, interest and not over hype but give a directional basis on where we are headed. As kharmin linked, we got that early this year, wouldn't mind similar updates in the future. I know if I was them I would be targeting each of the game modes with updates staged over time interlaced with the festivals and events. If they have that general plan share it. We know some of it already...Templates, Halloween, ?????, Christmas, ????, .... I really can't agree that is a roadmap, most of the items listed are already "coming soon" since like 2 to 4 years ago, also i belive they don't even talk about events till release because lets admit it last 5 holidays were a crap of event with a hidden mechanic to make it so they could monetize it, either that or a copy paste of last events with new skins > Example, if they knew that the Warclaw changes were closing in on release, that would have been fair to share as an upcoming release. Last we heard about it was after Warclaw was released prompting many to wonder if it had been dropped. Balance team is doing much better with starting to share earlier ideas with players. That allowed people to consider and understand intent. Nothing worse then to be re-gearing a toon to a new build to find out the build you were setting up for just got axed. well you are right, balance team is actually letting us know what they are planning, but what i hate is they do this so they can "ask for feedback" and later they ignore everything we say, look at last changes, players had like 100+ pages of feedback, still they didn't adress any of it, and now we have even more complains because of how they unintentionally buff necros, something tons of players anticipated and warned > Long story short communication is a fine balancing act and it isn't easy, posters though can help encourage it by keeping it constructive, informative and reconsidering when they feel the need to take jab at dev post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 they already did explain their plans. now we gotta wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxoglanis.1904 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 It may not have been anets vision for gw2, but 2 words can completely describe what this game is now: Cash cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"kraai.7265" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > [https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/ "https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/") > > This is not a roadmap in any sense, it's just a lot of unfulfilled promises tagged as "work in progress" same story with alliances, they've been working on it for 3 years now and counting... > And it is empty. It does not say anything of any weight. While I am not sure why this is a WvW thread. I dunno why people keep repeating this question. The answer is pretty obvious, same as last year. A story episode + map every ~3 month. Some minor QoL. Minor sPvP and PvP changes. Minor class balance ~3 month. There is no "vision" or secret plan. Between the layoffs, some big name devs leaving and the last "saga' reveal the direction is crystal clear. NCSOFT is not willing to invest in the game and will try to cut cost while milking the remaining player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > So your thread is just a rant about all the things you don't like about WvW and NOT really about a roadmap of the game. Probably should rename the title. > > > > So.., you figured you’d comment twice about... the same thing? I don't follow ... is this some poor attempt to police the forums for posts you don't approve of? You don't like that there isn't a 'contribution' to the thread? Thread wasn't made for one to begin with. Here, this will explain it for you. > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > [https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/ "https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/") > > > > This is not a roadmap in any sense, it's just a lot of unfulfilled promises tagged as "work in progress" same story with alliances, they've been working on it for 3 years now and counting... > > > > And it is empty. It does not say anything of any weight. > > While I am not sure why this is a WvW thread. I dunno why people keep repeating this question. The answer is pretty obvious, same as last year. A story episode + map every ~3 month. Some minor QoL. Minor sPvP and PvP changes. Minor class balance ~3 month. There is no "vision" or secret plan. Between the layoffs, some big name devs leaving and the last "saga' reveal the direction is crystal clear. NCSOFT is not willing to invest in the game and will try to cut cost while milking the remaining player base. > Correct ... people asking for a roadmap already know we aren't going to get one. It's just a poor attempt to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > So your thread is just a rant about all the things you don't like about WvW and NOT really about a roadmap of the game. Probably should rename the title. > > > > > > > So.., you figured you’d comment twice about... the same thing? > > I don't follow ... is this some poor attempt to police the forums for posts you don't approve of? You don't like that there isn't a 'contribution' to the thread? Thread wasn't made for one to begin with. Here, this will explain it for you. > > Oh no. It’s all good. It’s impressive that in that one post, your penchant for hypocrisy is spelled out by you. It’s all good. ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser.9873 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Inertia and entropy as near as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > So your thread is just a rant about all the things you don't like about WvW and NOT really about a roadmap of the game. Probably should rename the title. > > > > > > > > > > So.., you figured you’d comment twice about... the same thing? > > > > I don't follow ... is this some poor attempt to police the forums for posts you don't approve of? You don't like that there isn't a 'contribution' to the thread? Thread wasn't made for one to begin with. Here, this will explain it for you. > > > > > Oh no. It’s all good. It’s impressive that in that one post, your penchant for hypocrisy is spelled out by you. > > It’s all good. > > ?????? > > If what I said was hypocritical, you might have something. It was never the Op's intention to have a reasonable discussion in the first place. He just wanted to complain about everything he didn't like about WvW .. under the guise that Anet hasn't provided us a roadmap, which they NEVER have done. I got no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalary.3561 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"Knighthonor.4061" said: > Stop just stop. Roamers are a small minority of WvW players and many people were asking for Mounts in WvW. > > WvW was dead prior to Mounts getting added. Mounts actually made WvW more popular. Just how long you been playing WvW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimator.3589 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I'm not convinced Anet actually **_HAS_** a vision for WvW. They probably "balance" every couple of months by throwing darts at a giant board of skills and then flipping a coin to decide whether whatever skills were hit get buffed or nerfed. Most likely, if there is a vision, it's probably a wish that WvW would just go away so they could focus all their resources on microtransactions and the easier to please PvE crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > So your thread is just a rant about all the things you don't like about WvW and NOT really about a roadmap of the game. Probably should rename the title. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.., you figured you’d comment twice about... the same thing? > > > > > > I don't follow ... is this some poor attempt to police the forums for posts you don't approve of? You don't like that there isn't a 'contribution' to the thread? Thread wasn't made for one to begin with. Here, this will explain it for you. > > > > > > > > Oh no. It’s all good. It’s impressive that in that one post, your penchant for hypocrisy is spelled out by you. > > > > It’s all good. > > > > ?????? > > > > > > If what I said was hypocritical, you might have something. It was never the Op's intention to have a reasonable discussion in the first place. He just wanted to complain about everything he didn't like about WvW .. under the guise that Anet hasn't provided us a roadmap, which they NEVER have done. I got no problem with that. they used to give us roadmaps... back before WvW tournies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nthmetal.9652 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"kraai.7265" said: > "And yet, strangely, since I joined WvW a little over a year ago," > m8 i've been in wvw for 5 years, this game is a shell of what it was, and i know, as several other "veterans", we won't never see the amount of players we once saw, back at pre hot, or hot post patch, not even if they merge every server possible. Those were the golden eras, i feel pitty for every pvp oriented player that joined this game at pof launch I don't doubt that. I can only judge the last year, and I can only judge what I see right now. In a way, I guess that's an advantage: I can appreciate what I see, I am not burdened by 5+ years of experiencing this game mode and its changes. > plus not only population decreased, **but the mentality of players became so lame in the past year**, [...] Wow, this quickly turned into "oh no! the game is changing!". M8, the world is changing, we can't turn it back, so we better accept it. We do our best to accept the community _as it now is_, the game as it now is and work with what we have. There may come a point where I find WvW unfun; when I started out I couldn't appreciate it at all, but now it's almost all I do. Things change. For the last few months I couldn't even really play PvE anymore; many little bits annoyed me (and some still do), but guess what? New character build, newly approaching the story again and suddenly I can do it again. So what happens when I won't like WvW anymore? I might whine once or twice, but I'll return to PvE, to fractals, hell, maybe even Raids if someone still does them. Maybe, one day I'll not be afraid to touch sPvP anymore and just do it. Maybe the next balance patch destroys the playstyle I like about Warrior right now. Who knows? If it happens I'll be sad. For about two weeks I guess, then I'll try out another character, have a new reason to replay the story _again_, discover content anew. The game changes, so we have to change with it. Way better than only being salty and grumpy and clinging to the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick.8967 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 https://imgflip.com/i/3cs5p3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1)wvw is great 2)no new map needed 3)don't play as chrno if you think that is nerfed. Find and play with OP. 4)Small improvement - will be nice have on eternal bg also same pips progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said: >they keep listening to the wrong people when it comes to any type of balance changes. It's pretty funny, since it almost always is "the wrong people" who make that remark. It is actually _really easy to see_ if a poster is right or wrong. Those who are right can and will explain **who** represents the right and wrong. They can explain **why** they are right or wrong and they can explain **what makes them** right or wrong or what the greater ramifications are of the decisions they make. That is basic argumentation which is taught to basically everyone through junior high- and highschool. Arguments allow for discussion while mere oppinion does not. It is through that (a basic scientific method) that we can conclude who is right or wrong and distinguish truth from feeling. People who just spam their oppinions are sadly a byproduct of the F2P era of MMO games where the companies who make the games have begun caring less about what makes their product good and more about what makes things popular. Oppinions are awesome to measure popularity. Oppinions are worthless to measure truth. It also explains why Anet care so little about their forums. > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said: >All PoF spec's have been decimated except for 1, the firebrand. For whatever reason, this class has been allowed to run amok, and completely untouched. I suspect many of the complaints going against other classes and calling for nerfs have been coming from firebrands/guardians, and to a lesser extent warriors. Let's use your oppinion here as an example: I would propose that WvW is made alive by the content that exist at different scales. They are all important but large scale is the most common. Large scale or pickup groups rests entirely upon the shoulders of the people who tag up (and the support structures around them). People who tag up have traditionally played Guardians. Another perspective is to look at the very basic functions and behaviours that exist in the mode. If you look at large scale and pickup groups (a perspective that I am taking because you are taking it with the examples that you list) then you can rather quickly conclude that they are primarily ranged. In order to crush distance you need to move. So in order to go from long range to short range you have to go through your opponents abilities. Therein lies the balance effects. If a meta is long ranged it is very likely that offenses are overbalanced relative defenses and control is overbalanced relative peeling. That's basic logic. Now look at the Firebrand. Does it primarily affect offense and control or defense and peeling? The answer is yet again very obvious and simple. So what can we conclude from this? Well, you can not exaplain who, why or for what reasons. You also reach a completely illogical conclusion. That makes you the wrong person to listen to. It is simple fact. > The meta basically is comprised of 4 classes: You are right, the pickup meta is basically comprised of 4 classes, but it is comprised of 4 classes because pickup commanders does not expect you to be good enough to play the other classes. That is what meta is and I can explain why. > Mirage/Chrono - Mirage only used in WvW for griefing, while Chrono allegedly a shell of it's former self in groups. Why another option when we can use Firebrand again? Most groups still run Mesmers. Why? Because Mesmers still have multiple builds that work if you understand how a Mesmer is meant to be played. Mesmers generally have their core functionality and then they copy or mimic the role of another class to smaller but functional degree. For example, you can still play a support Mesmer and it is still a functional thing to play because in most cases a Firebrand-Mesmer combination is better than a Firebrand-Firebrand combination. The Mesmer heals, cleanses and stabs sufficiently in a pair to make the core class functionalities shine (the stealths, the portals, the pull speciality, the cooldown reduction, the illusion, etc.). Furthermore, a Mesmer is still an excellent support choice for a ranged groups that requires less support because it operates at longer distance. A glass Ele for example needs heals, cleanses and stab, but it actually needs less heals, cleanses and stab because it is not meant to move in to soak damage from opponents. The only reason we rarely see Mesmers used in a group with glass staff Eles is simply because a pickup commander organising everything alone has trouble maintaining that and he will not expect the players around him to be good enough to handle it or take the initiative to do it themselves. He carries them and treats them thereafter. That is a result of guilds and groups that provide the support structures around commanders disappearing. They disappear because the developers have prioritized development for players who are not in guilds, groups, take initiatives or tag up (or, obviously, who doesn't play WvW at all, but that is another discussion). Those groups have been taken for granted (and that is why WvW is where it is at). Take the back- and forth about the Warclaw for example: Is it the Warclaws fault or not? Well, it both is and isn't. The Warclaw was made to sell skins, to help pickup players more easily reach public tags and to transplant something good from PvE into WvW (mounts have been the success for PoF looking at it game-wide). Was it asked for? Sure, and Anet most likely just wanted to bring a PvE success to WvW. The problem with that is that it demonstrates how the developers do not understand WvW. None of that caters to the most important voices in WvW. It was not made for public commanders, for private commanders or for roamers: The three groups that primarily creates the WvW content. So was the mount alone the fault? No, but it is a representation of the direction that has caused WvW to become what it is. WvW is where it is at because of a lack of overall attention and the little attention that has been given has not been focused on the things that create the content in WvW. Like most other things, it is, at its core, pretty simple. > Weaver/Tempest - We rarely see Weaver's anymore due to retaliation (thanks again to the Guardian), and Tempest more useful for party support Many guilds play Tempests again, they are being reestablished as meta there which means that they will also begin to see more spread in pickups. Weavers may have fallen out of the immidiate meta in favour of Revenants but perhaps not as much after the CoR nerf. They have never falling comepletely out of meta for the simple reason that was stated above. The commander does not expect the average player to be good enough to play them. They are still a good class but the average level of experience and organisation has dropped below what is required to comp and use them properly. That is why we see less of them. People are no longer good enough to play them or organised enough to use them properly. > Deadeye/Daredevil - They can't even step into WvW without a tsunami of complaints, but again, we see more daredevils in WvW as is The Daredevil is even more outstanding in that regard. It has been in the guild meta throughout all of PoF. Guilds still run DD's. Guilds who zerbust still run DD's. Roaming groups who zergbust still run DD's. The reason that DD is not in the pickup meta is solely because the commander does not expect you to be good enough to play it. It is too difficult for the players who the meta is aimed at. Do you see the pattern? That also explains what meta is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > So your thread is just a rant about all the things you don't like about WvW and NOT really about a roadmap of the game. Probably should rename the title. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.., you figured you’d comment twice about... the same thing? > > > > > > I don't follow ... is this some poor attempt to police the forums for posts you don't approve of? You don't like that there isn't a 'contribution' to the thread? Thread wasn't made for one to begin with. Here, this will explain it for you. > > > > > > > > Oh no. It’s all good. It’s impressive that in that one post, your penchant for hypocrisy is spelled out by you. > > > > It’s all good. > > > > ?????? > > > > > > If what I said was hypocritical, you might have something. It was never the Op's intention to have a reasonable discussion in the first place. He just wanted to complain about everything he didn't like about WvW .. under the guise that Anet hasn't provided us a roadmap, which they NEVER have done. I got no problem with that. love how you talk about me like you know everything or i have some sort of hidden intention, it's pretty clear friend, the game keeps advertising as something that is not there, the "road map" they already gave us is filled with promises we've been waiting for 3 years now, all i want is an update, on which current philosophy is running gw2 right now, some say cash cow, some say it's still pvp and pve centric, but all i see is full focus in pve and some aspects of cash cowing. and if i complain it's because maybe it has something to do with what im claiming, or proves a point of what im concearned about, maybe if you spend some more time reading instead of beeing a smartkitten... and btw you were hypocrital, beeing a police if my post you dislike and then using that to defend from someone who doesn't share your pov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristalyan.5728 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said: > >they keep listening to the wrong people when it comes to any type of balance changes. > It's pretty funny, since it almost always is "the wrong people" who make that remark. It is actually _really easy to see_ if a poster is right or wrong. > > > > Mirage/Chrono - Mirage only used in WvW for griefing, while Chrono allegedly a shell of it's former self in groups. Why another option when we can use Firebrand again? > Most groups still run Mesmers. Why? Because Mesmers still have multiple builds that work if you understand how a Mesmer is meant to be played. Mesmers generally have their core functionality and then they copy or mimic the role of another class to smaller but functional degree. For example, you can still play a support Mesmer and it is still a functional thing to play because in most cases a Firebrand-Mesmer combination is better than a Firebrand-Firebrand combination. The Mesmer heals, cleanses and stabs sufficiently in a pair to make the core class functionalities shine (the stealths, the portals, the pull speciality, the cooldown reduction, the illusion, etc.). > > Furthermore, a Mesmer is still an excellent support choice for a ranged groups that requires less support because it operates at longer distance. A glass Ele for example needs heals, cleanses and stab, but it actually needs less heals, cleanses and stab because it is not meant to move in to soak damage from opponents. The only reason we rarely see Mesmers used in a group with glass staff Eles is simply because a pickup commander organising everything alone has trouble maintaining that and he will not expect the players around him to be good enough to handle it or take the initiative to do it themselves. He carries them and treats them thereafter. > I wonder what other game you play has **Mesmer** as a class. But - the statement was for Chrono/Mirage. As a core Mesmer you lost (almost) nothing - don't mean that it really has too much. But a Chrono lost (almost) every way to act in WvW. I try to understand if you are trolling or this is a mockery for the Chronomancers. To heal / give stability you frst have to raise your clones (because the Illusionary persona is lost now). The longest weapon range belongs to GS. BUT - this weapon is not an option in a zerg battle - the clone generation is not good enough. You should use a sceptre - but in this case you should go in the 900 range to generate clones. And you are dead before even creating one. The boon sharing is long go, once the _Signet of inspiration_ has been .... reworked. Use mantras? Is this a real Chrono build? What about a Chrono who want to play the Wells? If you don't believe me, go play a Chrono in WvW. If you play it **after** being used with a Firebrand, you will even notice differences in randament. I don't want to continue. Because it seems that **you** know what is good and what is bad. And the others are the **wrong people**. By offering from the start to the others the _presumption of incompetence_ (a pickup commander organising everything alone has trouble maintaining that and **he will not expect the players around him to be good enough** to handle it) you think you are the **right** player to speak? Stop considering yourself so good that you have the right to spell sentences. We are all here for our _opinions_. I will answer to the OP's problem: "Anet's vision of the game" with a question - What vision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said: > >they keep listening to the wrong people when it comes to any type of balance changes. > It's pretty funny, since it almost always is "the wrong people" who make that remark. It is actually _really easy to see_ if a poster is right or wrong. > > Those who are right can and will explain **who** represents the right and wrong. They can explain **why** they are right or wrong and they can explain **what makes them** right or wrong or what the greater ramifications are of the decisions they make. That is basic argumentation which is taught to basically everyone through junior high- and highschool. Arguments allow for discussion while mere oppinion does not. It is through that (a basic scientific method) that we can conclude who is right or wrong and distinguish truth from feeling. > > People who just spam their oppinions are sadly a byproduct of the F2P era of MMO games where the companies who make the games have begun caring less about what makes their product good and more about what makes things popular. Oppinions are awesome to measure popularity. Oppinions are worthless to measure truth. It also explains why Anet care so little about their forums. > > > > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said: > >All PoF spec's have been decimated except for 1, the firebrand. For whatever reason, this class has been allowed to run amok, and completely untouched. I suspect many of the complaints going against other classes and calling for nerfs have been coming from firebrands/guardians, and to a lesser extent warriors. > Let's use your oppinion here as an example: I would propose that WvW is made alive by the content that exist at different scales. They are all important but large scale is the most common. Large scale or pickup groups rests entirely upon the shoulders of the people who tag up (and the support structures around them). People who tag up have traditionally played Guardians. > > Another perspective is to look at the very basic functions and behaviours that exist in the mode. If you look at large scale and pickup groups (a perspective that I am taking because you are taking it with the examples that you list) then you can rather quickly conclude that they are primarily ranged. In order to crush distance you need to move. So in order to go from long range to short range you have to go through your opponents abilities. Therein lies the balance effects. If a meta is long ranged it is very likely that offenses are overbalanced relative defenses and control is overbalanced relative peeling. That's basic logic. > > Now look at the Firebrand. Does it primarily affect offense and control or defense and peeling? The answer is yet again very obvious and simple. > > So what can we conclude from this? Well, you can not exaplain who, why or for what reasons. You also reach a completely illogical conclusion. That makes you the wrong person to listen to. It is simple fact. > > > The meta basically is comprised of 4 classes: > You are right, the pickup meta is basically comprised of 4 classes, but it is comprised of 4 classes because pickup commanders does not expect you to be good enough to play the other classes. That is what meta is and I can explain why. > > > Mirage/Chrono - Mirage only used in WvW for griefing, while Chrono allegedly a shell of it's former self in groups. Why another option when we can use Firebrand again? > Most groups still run Mesmers. Why? Because Mesmers still have multiple builds that work if you understand how a Mesmer is meant to be played. Mesmers generally have their core functionality and then they copy or mimic the role of another class to smaller but functional degree. For example, you can still play a support Mesmer and it is still a functional thing to play because in most cases a Firebrand-Mesmer combination is better than a Firebrand-Firebrand combination. The Mesmer heals, cleanses and stabs sufficiently in a pair to make the core class functionalities shine (the stealths, the portals, the pull speciality, the cooldown reduction, the illusion, etc.). > first, most groups don't run mesmer, unless they are pugmanding, mesmer had 1 build called boonshare but it was so heavily nerfed and replaced with revs, renegades and fb's it's now useless, after that most mesmers found an answer in an interrupt dps build, the only problem was that it needed chrono to properly land and give enough preassure, after chrono was gutted there was no more room for mesmers in **organized** zergs, after all this mess, that core support build you are talking about was developed, but didn't last, theres nothing that mesmer can do that a second fb or a renegade can't do better, mesmer heals are a joke, it has only one cleanse, no resistance application, renegades give way more alacrity with less rotations, (a unique mechanic of the profession right anet?) portal is not used right now unless you run with a thief, but it's a troll move and once the wall is down is rare to see a group stay behind sending a thief inside, i don't understand what you mean by the illusion, but the only thing right you said about mesmers is that our only tool that it's somehow unique is the pull... > Furthermore, a Mesmer is still an excellent support choice for a ranged groups that requires less support because it operates at longer distance. A glass Ele for example needs heals, cleanses and stab, but it actually needs less heals, cleanses and stab because it is not meant to move in to soak damage from opponents. The only reason we rarely see Mesmers used in a group with glass staff Eles is simply because a pickup commander organising everything alone has trouble maintaining that and he will not expect the players around him to be good enough to handle it or take the initiative to do it themselves. He carries them and treats them thereafter. > > That is a result of guilds and groups that provide the support structures around commanders disappearing. They disappear because the developers have prioritized development for players who are not in guilds, groups, take initiatives or tag up (or, obviously, who doesn't play WvW at all, but that is another discussion). Those groups have been taken for granted (and that is why WvW is where it is at). > > Take the back- and forth about the Warclaw for example: Is it the Warclaws fault or not? Well, it both is and isn't. The Warclaw was made to sell skins, to help pickup players more easily reach public tags and to transplant something good from PvE into WvW (mounts have been the success for PoF looking at it game-wide). Was it asked for? Sure, and Anet most likely just wanted to bring a PvE success to WvW. > > The problem with that is that it demonstrates how the developers do not understand WvW. None of that caters to the most important voices in WvW. It was not made for public commanders, for private commanders or for roamers: The three groups that primarily creates the WvW content. So was the mount alone the fault? No, but it is a representation of the direction that has caused WvW to become what it is. > > WvW is where it is at because of a lack of overall attention and the little attention that has been given has not been focused on the things that create the content in WvW. Like most other things, it is, at its core, pretty simple. > > > Weaver/Tempest - We rarely see Weaver's anymore due to retaliation (thanks again to the Guardian), and Tempest more useful for party support > Many guilds play Tempests again, they are being reestablished as meta there which means that they will also begin to see more spread in pickups. Weavers may have fallen out of the immidiate meta in favour of Revenants but perhaps not as much after the CoR nerf. They have never falling comepletely out of meta for the simple reason that was stated above. The commander does not expect the average player to be good enough to play them. They are still a good class but the average level of experience and organisation has dropped below what is required to comp and use them properly. That is why we see less of them. People are no longer good enough to play them or organised enough to use them properly. > > > Deadeye/Daredevil - They can't even step into WvW without a tsunami of complaints, but again, we see more daredevils in WvW as is > The Daredevil is even more outstanding in that regard. It has been in the guild meta throughout all of PoF. Guilds still run DD's. Guilds who zerbust still run DD's. Roaming groups who zergbust still run DD's. The reason that DD is not in the pickup meta is solely because the commander does not expect you to be good enough to play it. It is too difficult for the players who the meta is aimed at. Do you see the pattern? That also explains what meta is. > > I would love that your mentality about commanders not expecting to have great and skilled players around was true, but the real deal behind that is that why a comm would want a chrono giving 3 to 5 stacks of alacrity, when a renegade can dip tons more with less rotation, and way faster, why would he want a mesmer to stealth for 2 to 4 seconds when he can have a scrapper drop a smoke field and get like 15 seconds in less time with no visual tell except for fields that dissapear after 3 seconds, or a mediocre healer, that only cleanses twice, when he can have another fb healing, giving resistance and tons more buffs and i talk about mesmers because is my class, but this happened to tons of other builds that got ruined to make space for easier, braindead builds that outshine and overperform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 something that happened a few years ago - a gvg near windmill. halfway through it this anet dev came in and said that we were ruining his game mode. i'll never forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > something that happened a few years ago - a gvg near windmill. halfway through it this anet dev came in and said that we were ruining his game mode. i'll never forget that. ofc you were!! shame on you, why where you fighting in an open world pvp zone??? you should have been storming empty castles, towers and camps, thats how wvw is supposed to be played! please notice sarcasm xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"Knighthonor.4061" said: > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > warclaws in wvw without thinking how it would affect community > > -after years of wvwers asking please not to add mounts in game you did anyways, killing roaming in this game, > > Stop just stop. Roamers are a small minority of WvW players and many people were asking for Mounts in WvW. > > WvW was dead prior to Mounts getting added. Mounts actually made WvW more popular. Turning WvW into silverwastes/istan doesn't make WvW more popular, it changes WvW in farmable PvE which is more popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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