SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 up, just fighted another condi thief, he was stacking 11 stacks of poison plus 8 different kind of condi in only ONE atk, then teleporting around and perma evading/healing, then everyone is asking thenselves why pvp is so empty, maybe because of that kind of fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > up, just fighted another condi thief, he was stacking 11 stacks of poison plus 8 different kind of condi in only ONE atk, then teleporting around and perma evading/healing, then everyone is asking thenselves why pvp is so empty, maybe because of that kind of fun > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > up, just fighted another condi thief, he was stacking 11 stacks of poison plus 8 different kind of condi in only ONE atk, then teleporting around and perma evading/healing, then everyone is asking thenselves why pvp is so empty, maybe because of that kind of fun Guild Wars PvP is where fun is and where it ends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdy.5107 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > up, just fighted another condi thief, he was stacking 11 stacks of poison plus 8 different kind of condi in only ONE atk, then teleporting around and perma evading/healing, then everyone is asking thenselves why pvp is so empty, maybe because of that kind of fun Cant put 11 stacks of poison and 8 other condi in 1 attack... its impossible. you got hit with 3-4 attacks AT LEAST. Learn to cleanse and learn to counter attack. its not Anets fault YOU lack the skills or are too lazy to learn to counter a condi thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 > @"rowdy.5107" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > up, just fighted another condi thief, he was stacking 11 stacks of poison plus 8 different kind of condi in only ONE atk, then teleporting around and perma evading/healing, then everyone is asking thenselves why pvp is so empty, maybe because of that kind of fun > > Cant put 11 stacks of poison and 8 other condi in 1 attack... its impossible. you got hit with 3-4 attacks AT LEAST. Learn to cleanse and learn to counter attack. its not Anets fault YOU lack the skills or are too lazy to learn to counter a condi thief. > > The current build works like that atm even if it misses one attack the next attack applies multiple conditions. Also fucking up doesn't set them back > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"rowdy.5107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it. > > > > > > > > > > Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say the condi thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He's 100% right though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that... > > > > > > > > > > > > And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided. > > > > > > > > > > I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective. > > > > > > > > Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD. > > > > > > > > Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo. > > > > > > Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief. > > > > > > I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them. > > It is not OP it is just cheesy, everyone knows what happen and the only way to stop is to build just for it, but that is just annoying to play the tune of someone else cause he wants to play safe lazy hit and run speck. The problem with such cheesy specks is that they invoke people to play bunker builds, and we end up in another bunker meta after. > > > > I changed little in my existing power thief build to deal with the "new" condition thief. I changed nothing in my existing warrior build to deal with condition thief. What I did instead was play those builds, find out how they worked, found out how they were countered by players who take the time to learn to deal with them and adjusted tactics accordingly. Your "annoyance" means nothing here. Annoyance is subjective and everyone is "annoyed" by different things. On any build you care to name i can claim "annoyance" when facing it. > > As to lazy hit and run spec, what I deem lazy is entirely different then you. I deem lazy someone who does not want to learn how to deal with those specs. What I deem lazy is a person who will not change their builds in the slightest when the one they found on meta battle is poor when dealing against specific builds. What I deem lazy is someone expecting a build that deals well against another power build to perform just as well with the same tactics and traits when facing a condition build. Learning how to deal with these specs, how to adjust tactics on the fly, how to tweak a build so it can mitigate the strengths of another all take time and practice. Lazy people , in my opinion , just do not want to do that. They run to the boards and whine and demand ANET change things so that they do not have to be the ones making changes. Your argument doesn't hold up cause the build is lazy, mess up get cleansed, miss it doesn't matter, teleport out reset do it again or move to another place the poor bugger has to walk to the place to help. That is the issue here is that most professions need to walk to the place atm thieves by design can't lose it is either win or a draw cause it ran away. I dislike it cause most of the people jump on the bandwagon on this lazy build cause it is easy to play and safe, but at the same time they end up being useless cause they don't know how to use thief properly. It is a selfish build that puts more burden on the rest of the team. And that returns it to my point that it will just rotate us back in bunker meta since half of the classes can't fucking deal with it, why would i bother to play lets say reaper when i can just be lazy and make bunker ele or scrapper and squat at the sides and be unmovable. You can't have one guy dictate what the rest 9 should play, everyone is happy that scourge is off the meta since now people can play more builds, but here we go again with the cheesy lazy builds before it was 4 mirages per game now its 4 thieves and before that was 4 scrappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 > @"asterix.9614" said: > Yea, nerf them in wvw but they seem ok in pvp. In wvw they have that big kitten space to reset as soon as they get damage, whilst they reset the player they are attacking is inflicted with a loooooong kitten poison and whatever other On wvw they are way more strong than pvp... the values of the initial condi burst it’s a joke...a bad one. Maybe a decent warrior can counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollbirtan.2915 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Just dodge ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdy.5107 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > @"rowdy.5107" said: > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > up, just fighted another condi thief, he was stacking 11 stacks of poison plus 8 different kind of condi in only ONE atk, then teleporting around and perma evading/healing, then everyone is asking thenselves why pvp is so empty, maybe because of that kind of fun > > > > Cant put 11 stacks of poison and 8 other condi in 1 attack... its impossible. you got hit with 3-4 attacks AT LEAST. Learn to cleanse and learn to counter attack. its not Anets fault YOU lack the skills or are too lazy to learn to counter a condi thief. > > > > > The current build works like that atm even if it misses one attack the next attack applies multiple conditions. Also kitten up doesn't set them back > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"rowdy.5107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it. > > > > > > > > > > > Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say the condi thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He's 100% right though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided. > > > > > > > > > > > > I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD. > > > > > > > > > > Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo. > > > > > > > > Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief. > > > > > > > > I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them. > > > It is not OP it is just cheesy, everyone knows what happen and the only way to stop is to build just for it, but that is just annoying to play the tune of someone else cause he wants to play safe lazy hit and run speck. The problem with such cheesy specks is that they invoke people to play bunker builds, and we end up in another bunker meta after. > > > > > > > I changed little in my existing power thief build to deal with the "new" condition thief. I changed nothing in my existing warrior build to deal with condition thief. What I did instead was play those builds, find out how they worked, found out how they were countered by players who take the time to learn to deal with them and adjusted tactics accordingly. Your "annoyance" means nothing here. Annoyance is subjective and everyone is "annoyed" by different things. On any build you care to name i can claim "annoyance" when facing it. > > > > As to lazy hit and run spec, what I deem lazy is entirely different then you. I deem lazy someone who does not want to learn how to deal with those specs. What I deem lazy is a person who will not change their builds in the slightest when the one they found on meta battle is poor when dealing against specific builds. What I deem lazy is someone expecting a build that deals well against another power build to perform just as well with the same tactics and traits when facing a condition build. Learning how to deal with these specs, how to adjust tactics on the fly, how to tweak a build so it can mitigate the strengths of another all take time and practice. Lazy people , in my opinion , just do not want to do that. They run to the boards and whine and demand ANET change things so that they do not have to be the ones making changes. > Your argument doesn't hold up cause the build is lazy, mess up get cleansed, miss it doesn't matter, teleport out reset do it again or move to another place the poor kitten has to walk to the place to help. That is the issue here is that most professions need to walk to the place atm thieves by design can't lose it is either win or a draw cause it ran away. I dislike it cause most of the people jump on the bandwagon on this lazy build cause it is easy to play and safe, but at the same time they end up being useless cause they don't know how to use thief properly. It is a selfish build that puts more burden on the rest of the team. And that returns it to my point that it will just rotate us back in bunker meta since half of the classes can't kitten deal with it, why would i bother to play lets say reaper when i can just be lazy and make bunker ele or scrapper and squat at the sides and be unmovable. You can't have one guy dictate what the rest 9 should play, everyone is happy that scourge is off the meta since now people can play more builds, but here we go again with the cheesy lazy builds before it was 4 mirages per game now its 4 thieves and before that was 4 scrappers. Its "lazy" "bad" "broken" because YOU lack the skills and are too LAZY to figure out how to fight it... Its literally the weakest condi build for a thief.. It is a 1 trick pony.. As a S/D condi thief, I tend to stay away from people that learned to ADAPT to condi classes. You cant scratch somebody that actually knows how to play against a condi. don't matter what class they are. Instead, ill seek out people like YOU to farm instead. You are crying about a S/D.. What happens when you run into a SA D/D condi thief that has not 1 trick.. but lots of tricks up its sleeve with bleeding on top of the poison? They are 10x more deadly.. Learn to adapt to the new meta or you will be left in the dust. Crying doesn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 > @"rowdy.5107" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > > @"rowdy.5107" said: > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > up, just fighted another condi thief, he was stacking 11 stacks of poison plus 8 different kind of condi in only ONE atk, then teleporting around and perma evading/healing, then everyone is asking thenselves why pvp is so empty, maybe because of that kind of fun > > > > > > Cant put 11 stacks of poison and 8 other condi in 1 attack... its impossible. you got hit with 3-4 attacks AT LEAST. Learn to cleanse and learn to counter attack. its not Anets fault YOU lack the skills or are too lazy to learn to counter a condi thief. > > > > > > > > The current build works like that atm even if it misses one attack the next attack applies multiple conditions. Also kitten up doesn't set them back > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rowdy.5107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Condi thieves are the easiest things to kill if you actually learn how to play against them. But most of you wont. instead, you will keep doing what you do with the same fail build getting the same results. And after the condi thief farms you in a match or two because you CHOOSE to not learn how to play against them, You come here and cry about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Condi thief doesn't need a nerf.. YOU need a personal skill buff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say the condi thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He's 100% right though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This version of condi thief is much easier to deal with than ghost thief or perplexity thieves back in the day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to play devils advocate and say condi thief is OP, I even made a thread about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I only have shadow step and weapon swap as my condi clear (play glass core dp) and I rarely lose to this kit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trying to see things from a different perspective, didn't want to be the thief defending any broken stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back when potent poison was 33/33 and the conditions of lotus training lasted twice as long, and panic strike poison lasted twice as long, people had something to complain about with legitimacy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YOU HAVE TO SPEC MORE CLEARS WHEN YOU SEE A DAREDEVIL... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or play a spec that has no problem with it...weaver, ranger, guardian, (sometimes) warrior, another daredevil, condi mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > note: but I know what their rotation is and what thief animations look like by heart, so there is that... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And thats the discussion... Guardian Vs Condi Thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was mostly trying to tell the other guy that every spec has a way to deal with it, Guardian most of all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing as thats the class that was brought up I said DH and Core guard should be able to handle it and burst the thief quick enough to not be an issue, I was foolish enough to try and help someone with thier class until thier consistent tears revved me up to play a full pve DH build with less than 15 fps and lag so bad it makes people warp to drive the point home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power thief using s/x and traited acro can deal with this build with few issues. Withdraw as the heal will cleanse all the movement impairing conditions on use. Trait trickster and say goodbye to the poison and torment stacks on an under 15 seconds cooldown. Your own dodges will apply will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. Your own #2 port will apply swiftness and remove movement impairing conditions. That port will also remove a condition on use. If you are in the DD spech escapists removes a condition on dodge if an attack evaded. If the condi thief in sword uses port/dodge/dodge just dodge after the port and his impaling lotus avoided. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also play a warrior that has plenty of cleanses to deal with that build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I call a good thief... someone not relying on condi cheese and can still be effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully your post helps those thieves who struggle against condi DD. > > > > > > > > > > > > Condi daredevil is used by scrubs to kill scrubs imo. > > > > > > > > > > Oh I use a condi thief as well. It a p/d build however and I find it much more effective as it does not rely on the use of #2 spam , dodge , dodge to do its work. Virtually every skill on the p/d set has its use. A predictable thief is a dead thief. > > > > > > > > > > I have no problems with any thief that wants to play a certain build. My larger issue is with people who insist there nothing they can do about playing against one. There are certainly OP specs that need looking at but s/d condition is not one of them. In my mind to qualify as OP a given spec must be able to operate with impunity and will never face a spec/build that can neutralize them. > > > > It is not OP it is just cheesy, everyone knows what happen and the only way to stop is to build just for it, but that is just annoying to play the tune of someone else cause he wants to play safe lazy hit and run speck. The problem with such cheesy specks is that they invoke people to play bunker builds, and we end up in another bunker meta after. > > > > > > > > > > I changed little in my existing power thief build to deal with the "new" condition thief. I changed nothing in my existing warrior build to deal with condition thief. What I did instead was play those builds, find out how they worked, found out how they were countered by players who take the time to learn to deal with them and adjusted tactics accordingly. Your "annoyance" means nothing here. Annoyance is subjective and everyone is "annoyed" by different things. On any build you care to name i can claim "annoyance" when facing it. > > > > > > As to lazy hit and run spec, what I deem lazy is entirely different then you. I deem lazy someone who does not want to learn how to deal with those specs. What I deem lazy is a person who will not change their builds in the slightest when the one they found on meta battle is poor when dealing against specific builds. What I deem lazy is someone expecting a build that deals well against another power build to perform just as well with the same tactics and traits when facing a condition build. Learning how to deal with these specs, how to adjust tactics on the fly, how to tweak a build so it can mitigate the strengths of another all take time and practice. Lazy people , in my opinion , just do not want to do that. They run to the boards and whine and demand ANET change things so that they do not have to be the ones making changes. > > Your argument doesn't hold up cause the build is lazy, mess up get cleansed, miss it doesn't matter, teleport out reset do it again or move to another place the poor kitten has to walk to the place to help. That is the issue here is that most professions need to walk to the place atm thieves by design can't lose it is either win or a draw cause it ran away. I dislike it cause most of the people jump on the bandwagon on this lazy build cause it is easy to play and safe, but at the same time they end up being useless cause they don't know how to use thief properly. It is a selfish build that puts more burden on the rest of the team. And that returns it to my point that it will just rotate us back in bunker meta since half of the classes can't kitten deal with it, why would i bother to play lets say reaper when i can just be lazy and make bunker ele or scrapper and squat at the sides and be unmovable. You can't have one guy dictate what the rest 9 should play, everyone is happy that scourge is off the meta since now people can play more builds, but here we go again with the cheesy lazy builds before it was 4 mirages per game now its 4 thieves and before that was 4 scrappers. > > Its "lazy" "bad" "broken" because YOU lack the skills and are too LAZY to figure out how to fight it... Its literally the weakest condi build for a thief.. It is a 1 trick pony.. As a S/D condi thief, I tend to stay away from people that learned to ADAPT to condi classes. You cant scratch somebody that actually knows how to play against a condi. don't matter what class they are. Instead, ill seek out people like YOU to farm instead. You are crying about a S/D.. What happens when you run into a SA D/D condi thief that has not 1 trick.. but lots of tricks up its sleeve with bleeding on top of the poison? They are 10x more deadly.. Learn to adapt to the new meta or you will be left in the dust. Crying doesn't help either. Bam lost the argument there you attack the person not the argument. I never said i had trouble with fending off thieves, you assume too much, i said that it is lazy build and you confirm it since it is one trick pony that hits and then runs away. You can always run scrapper, weaver or spellbreaker. My issue it is just lame build that does safe damage and can never lose a battle. It just doesn't follow the rules of the game there is not much drawback port in apply some conditions miss do another attack apply them anyway port out zippity zap with shortbow. There isn't much risk involved for the reward given. That why it is called cheese it is simple tactic that forces people to fully play around it, the effort to play that build is way way lower than the effort to stop it, so now because some people can't be bothered to play the game everyone should roll specific builds just to counter that one guy. DH was like that, scrapper was like that and mirage was like that(if it is not still). My problem is that every time there is cheese like that there are people climbing rating on it it the fallacy that they know shit about the game and when it gets changed they bandwagon something else while shafting the matchmeker even more and everyone is playing a worse game cause of them.Most people leave cause the game is too spammy, too cheesy, too lazy where effort is not worth much and the effortless builds are better. The meta is crap cause people play crappy builds like that. When the bunker meta comes again when people "adapt", thieves will be ones crying but i can't play it, though luck maybe next time don't cheese. Funny thing this has happened multiple times now, it is on repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > @"asterix.9614" said: > > Yea, nerf them in wvw but they seem ok in pvp. In wvw they have that big kitten space to reset as soon as they get damage, whilst they reset the player they are attacking is inflicted with a loooooong kitten poison and whatever other > > On wvw they are way more strong than pvp... >**the values of the initial condi burst it’s a joke...a bad one.** > Maybe a decent warrior can counter it. Correct!! The true value is to once after all, remove Thief Profession from the game, **PERIOD!!** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > @"asterix.9614" said: > > > Yea, nerf them in wvw but they seem ok in pvp. In wvw they have that big kitten space to reset as soon as they get damage, whilst they reset the player they are attacking is inflicted with a loooooong kitten poison and whatever other > > > > On wvw they are way more strong than pvp... > >**the values of the initial condi burst it’s a joke...a bad one.** > > Maybe a decent warrior can counter it. > > Correct!! > > The true value is to once after all, remove Thief Profession from the game, **PERIOD!!** and necromancer, mesmer, and elementalist. we only need ranger, engi, warrior, and revenant.... who cares about guardian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 **Why condi thief is bad for GW2** -with constructive feedback- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > > @"asterix.9614" said: > > > > Yea, nerf them in wvw but they seem ok in pvp. In wvw they have that big kitten space to reset as soon as they get damage, whilst they reset the player they are attacking is inflicted with a loooooong kitten poison and whatever other > > > > > > On wvw they are way more strong than pvp... > > >**the values of the initial condi burst it’s a joke...a bad one.** > > > Maybe a decent warrior can counter it. > > > > Correct!! > > > > The true value is to once after all, remove Thief Profession from the game, **PERIOD!!** > > and necromancer, mesmer, and elementalist. > > we only need ranger, engi, warrior, and revenant.... > > who cares about guardian > interesting lists...no love for guardian profession?? (You do know that Guardian Profession is connected to Gwen Thackeray in Guild Wars right :) ) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Logan_Thackeray As for Mesmer Profession--Gwen is Guild Wars -Mesmer Profession stays but must return to its root- --not to change your mind though... you are entitled :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Why not add a small-ish cast time to Infiltrator's strike, or slightly increase the time in between the gap closer finishing and the hit landing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdy.5107 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > **Why condi thief is bad for GW2** > -with constructive feedback- > > This build was nerfed 8 months ago tho… You guys don't realize condi thief was much much more deadly before they took away traps, venom stack on hit exc. The ONLY reason why everybody uses it now is because power d/p thief is useless in the new meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 All I need is to interrupt and auto atack playing condi daredevil, daze interrup boon removal escapes, it could be a bit more balanced tho. It’s easy to overrun targets with a initial self made condi bomb/burst ... it’s should be more tactical. Still some classes are harder to fight some just melt .. Tdlr it can’t be nerfed cause it carries once u discover how to steal boons and interrup spam targets, and there are other classes with carry builds... so there’s the game balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean.1469 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 > @"Razor.6392" said: > The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge. > > Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it. > > With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao. The problem is that, with low population this kind of cheese build is counter productive in bringing any new players to pvp or keeping new players and even many old players do not like this build. I don't understand the support for condi theif myself, pretty much everyone I have actually spoken to in game, even the ones playing condi theif have all said they would sooner see it gone but just play it because it carries vs new players easily. People in this game seem to forget that we have low population at the moment and can't afford for builds like this to be upsetting the status further, we need to look at balancing builds better without constant spike damage and focus on creating a meta which has more counter play other than who can nuke who first and snowball the fastest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge. > > > > Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it. > > > > With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao. > > The problem is that, with low population this kind of cheese build is counter productive in bringing any new players to pvp or keeping new players and even many old players do not like this build. > > I don't understand the support for condi theif myself, pretty much everyone I have actually spoken to in game, even the ones playing condi theif have all said they would sooner see it gone but just play it because it carries vs new players easily. > > **People in this game seem to forget that we have low population at the moment and can't afford for builds like this to be upsetting the status further, we need to look at balancing builds better without constant spike damage and focus on creating a meta which has more counter play other than who can nuke who first and snowball the fastest.** +1 Many and many more are refusing to play, give support in resulting in financially investing in guild wars 2 because of this --just past september; a new player said these words to us in streaming, 'don't expect Anet to change...we've motivated them enough. Take your desire and your hope on your way out of the door'-- We can't force Anet to care about the well being of the game and its communities, if they don't want to we are only hurting ourselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge. > > > > Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it. > > > > With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao. > > The problem is that, with low population this kind of cheese build is counter productive in bringing any new players to pvp or keeping new players and even many old players do not like this build. > > I don't understand the support for condi theif myself, pretty much everyone I have actually spoken to in game, even the ones playing condi theif have all said they would sooner see it gone but just play it because it carries vs new players easily. > > People in this game seem to forget that we have low population at the moment and can't afford for builds like this to be upsetting the status further, we need to look at balancing builds better without constant spike damage and focus on creating a meta which has more counter play other than who can nuke who first and snowball the fastest. Nothing but hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense in your post. I play a Condition thief and do not want to see it gone. I really can not see how any person that is legit can claim "I play condition thief and want to see it gone". If they want to see it gone do not play it. I play p/d condition thief using the DE spec. It hardly OP and does not do any of what you suggest in your post. If you want to talk about a specific thief , in this case s/d condition then you are talking about THAT build and not condition thief. I do not understand how people can not grasp this. And yes as rowdy suggests the condition thief using the old traps was deadlier then today's version. S/d thief is not that great a build if people would take the time to understand how it works. They do not want to do that so pretend that the issue is with all condition thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean.1469 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge. > > > > > > Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it. > > > > > > With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao. > > > > The problem is that, with low population this kind of cheese build is counter productive in bringing any new players to pvp or keeping new players and even many old players do not like this build. > > > > I don't understand the support for condi theif myself, pretty much everyone I have actually spoken to in game, even the ones playing condi theif have all said they would sooner see it gone but just play it because it carries vs new players easily. > > > > People in this game seem to forget that we have low population at the moment and can't afford for builds like this to be upsetting the status further, we need to look at balancing builds better without constant spike damage and focus on creating a meta which has more counter play other than who can nuke who first and snowball the fastest. > > Nothing but hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense in your post. I play a Condition thief and do not want to see it gone. I really can not see how any person that is legit can claim "I play condition thief and want to see it gone". If they want to see it gone do not play it. I play p/d condition thief using the DE spec. It hardly OP and does not do any of what you suggest in your post. > > If you want to talk about a specific thief , in this case s/d condition then you are talking about THAT build and not condition thief. I do not understand how people can not grasp this. > > And yes as rowdy suggests the condition thief using the old traps was deadlier then today's version. S/d thief is not that great a build if people would take the time to understand how it works. They do not want to do that so pretend that the issue is with all condition thieves. I would have thought it is obvious that we were talking about s/d condition. The deadeye spec is far better and has some counter play I agree, but you completely missed my point. With S/d condi theif in the current meta game in a ranked game where you are often playing with 1 good player on each team and 3-4 low silver or lower, they have absolutely no understanding and all you do is watch the condi theif evade over each one of them twice and they die one by one, there is nothing you can do to carry these games sometimes and like I said in my post this is counter productive in helping to keep new players in ranked and bring new ones in. Low population is our biggest problem and for as long as people refuse to see cheese builds being a big part of that problem and call it a l2p git gud issue, low population will always be a massive problem for the game. But it's whatever, like burnfall said I'm just hurting myself talking about it. I should really just try and enjoy whats left of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge. > > > > > > > > Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it. > > > > > > > > With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao. > > > > > > The problem is that, with low population this kind of cheese build is counter productive in bringing any new players to pvp or keeping new players and even many old players do not like this build. > > > > > > I don't understand the support for condi theif myself, pretty much everyone I have actually spoken to in game, even the ones playing condi theif have all said they would sooner see it gone but just play it because it carries vs new players easily. > > > > > > People in this game seem to forget that we have low population at the moment and can't afford for builds like this to be upsetting the status further, we need to look at balancing builds better without constant spike damage and focus on creating a meta which has more counter play other than who can nuke who first and snowball the fastest. > > > > Nothing but hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense in your post. I play a Condition thief and do not want to see it gone. I really can not see how any person that is legit can claim "I play condition thief and want to see it gone". If they want to see it gone do not play it. I play p/d condition thief using the DE spec. It hardly OP and does not do any of what you suggest in your post. > > > > If you want to talk about a specific thief , in this case s/d condition then you are talking about THAT build and not condition thief. I do not understand how people can not grasp this. > > > > And yes as rowdy suggests the condition thief using the old traps was deadlier then today's version. S/d thief is not that great a build if people would take the time to understand how it works. They do not want to do that so pretend that the issue is with all condition thieves. > > I would have thought it is obvious that we were talking about s/d condition. The deadeye spec is far better and has some counter play I agree, but you completely missed my point. > > With S/d condi theif in the current meta game in a ranked game where you are often playing with 1 good player on each team and 3-4 low silver or lower, they have absolutely no understanding and all you do is watch the condi theif evade over each one of them twice and they die one by one, there is nothing you can do to carry these games sometimes and like I said in my post this is counter productive in helping to keep new players in ranked and bring new ones in. > > Low population is our biggest problem and for as long as people refuse to see cheese builds being a big part of that problem and call it a l2p git gud issue, low population will always be a massive problem for the game. > > But it's whatever, like burnfall said I'm just hurting myself talking about it. I should really just try and enjoy whats left of this game. No it was not rather obvious you were talking about s/d thief. The very title of this thread is nerf Condition thief. It does not say Nerf s/d condition thief. Added to that theso called fixes (see venoms) affect other condition builds. If one is talking only about s/d condition then why on earth suggest fixes that impact those other builds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean.1469 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge. > > > > > > > > > > Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it. > > > > > > > > > > With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao. > > > > > > > > The problem is that, with low population this kind of cheese build is counter productive in bringing any new players to pvp or keeping new players and even many old players do not like this build. > > > > > > > > I don't understand the support for condi theif myself, pretty much everyone I have actually spoken to in game, even the ones playing condi theif have all said they would sooner see it gone but just play it because it carries vs new players easily. > > > > > > > > People in this game seem to forget that we have low population at the moment and can't afford for builds like this to be upsetting the status further, we need to look at balancing builds better without constant spike damage and focus on creating a meta which has more counter play other than who can nuke who first and snowball the fastest. > > > > > > Nothing but hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense in your post. I play a Condition thief and do not want to see it gone. I really can not see how any person that is legit can claim "I play condition thief and want to see it gone". If they want to see it gone do not play it. I play p/d condition thief using the DE spec. It hardly OP and does not do any of what you suggest in your post. > > > > > > If you want to talk about a specific thief , in this case s/d condition then you are talking about THAT build and not condition thief. I do not understand how people can not grasp this. > > > > > > And yes as rowdy suggests the condition thief using the old traps was deadlier then today's version. S/d thief is not that great a build if people would take the time to understand how it works. They do not want to do that so pretend that the issue is with all condition thieves. > > > > I would have thought it is obvious that we were talking about s/d condition. The deadeye spec is far better and has some counter play I agree, but you completely missed my point. > > > > With S/d condi theif in the current meta game in a ranked game where you are often playing with 1 good player on each team and 3-4 low silver or lower, they have absolutely no understanding and all you do is watch the condi theif evade over each one of them twice and they die one by one, there is nothing you can do to carry these games sometimes and like I said in my post this is counter productive in helping to keep new players in ranked and bring new ones in. > > > > Low population is our biggest problem and for as long as people refuse to see cheese builds being a big part of that problem and call it a l2p git gud issue, low population will always be a massive problem for the game. > > > > But it's whatever, like burnfall said I'm just hurting myself talking about it. I should really just try and enjoy whats left of this game. > > No it was not rather obvious you were talking about s/d thief. The very title of this thread is nerf Condition thief. It does not say Nerf s/d condition thief. Added to that theso called fixes (see venoms) affect other condition builds. If one is talking only about s/d condition then why on earth suggest fixes that impact those other builds? I'll save you the hassle and tell you that every "nerf condi theif" thread is about s/d condition. Also I did not mention any fixes let alone fixes that affect other builds, so please don't get on the defensive about your build potentially getting nerfed, that's not what I or anyone else is asking for. Personally I don't have a problem with deadeye condi, fought one the other day and I thought it had good counter play to it, but then I haven't fought that build enough either to say that with full confidence. I'm not extremely knowledgeable when it comes to technicalities, I'm a solo player, I don't have a lot of time and I have to learn everything for myself. What you are not seeing is my perspective, all you care about is your build. What I am saying is that s/d condi trolls through and destroys new players far too easily. It is making ranked games lop sided and thus not enjoyable to play. It is an ez mode build with not much counter play and is not healthy to the spvp game mode with long term low population issues. I literally picked this build up in one game during season and was trolling through new players and even supposed experienced players no problems at all, because everyone is playing solo que s/d theif can even troll right up in plat as well because you can't communicate where he is to easily counter him. He ports in with a condi bomb and in a split second the fight can be over. The way I feel is that anybody actually defending this build has no idea what it's like to play ranked up at top 250 level and see how difficult games are when you actually get matched with all high plat players only then for them to use s/d theif to easily pick off your stray team mates. It's all good if people swap to counter comp but otherwise you are looking at a lop sided boring game. So if s/d theif can troll platinum players imagine how hard it can troll through new players, it's multiplicative. This skews leaderboards and makes the game even more unenjoyable, I really can't understand why people don't see this?? How can you enjoy something which kills the game?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > > The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao. > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that, with low population this kind of cheese build is counter productive in bringing any new players to pvp or keeping new players and even many old players do not like this build. > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the support for condi theif myself, pretty much everyone I have actually spoken to in game, even the ones playing condi theif have all said they would sooner see it gone but just play it because it carries vs new players easily. > > > > > > > > > > People in this game seem to forget that we have low population at the moment and can't afford for builds like this to be upsetting the status further, we need to look at balancing builds better without constant spike damage and focus on creating a meta which has more counter play other than who can nuke who first and snowball the fastest. > > > > > > > > Nothing but hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense in your post. I play a Condition thief and do not want to see it gone. I really can not see how any person that is legit can claim "I play condition thief and want to see it gone". If they want to see it gone do not play it. I play p/d condition thief using the DE spec. It hardly OP and does not do any of what you suggest in your post. > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about a specific thief , in this case s/d condition then you are talking about THAT build and not condition thief. I do not understand how people can not grasp this. > > > > > > > > And yes as rowdy suggests the condition thief using the old traps was deadlier then today's version. S/d thief is not that great a build if people would take the time to understand how it works. They do not want to do that so pretend that the issue is with all condition thieves. > > > > > > I would have thought it is obvious that we were talking about s/d condition. The deadeye spec is far better and has some counter play I agree, but you completely missed my point. > > > > > > With S/d condi theif in the current meta game in a ranked game where you are often playing with 1 good player on each team and 3-4 low silver or lower, they have absolutely no understanding and all you do is watch the condi theif evade over each one of them twice and they die one by one, there is nothing you can do to carry these games sometimes and like I said in my post this is counter productive in helping to keep new players in ranked and bring new ones in. > > > > > > Low population is our biggest problem and for as long as people refuse to see cheese builds being a big part of that problem and call it a l2p git gud issue, low population will always be a massive problem for the game. > > > > > > But it's whatever, like burnfall said I'm just hurting myself talking about it. I should really just try and enjoy whats left of this game. > > > > No it was not rather obvious you were talking about s/d thief. The very title of this thread is nerf Condition thief. It does not say Nerf s/d condition thief. Added to that theso called fixes (see venoms) affect other condition builds. If one is talking only about s/d condition then why on earth suggest fixes that impact those other builds? > > I'll save you the hassle and tell you that every "nerf condi theif" thread is about s/d condition. Also I did not mention any fixes let alone fixes that affect other builds, so please don't get on the defensive about your build potentially getting nerfed, that's not what I or anyone else is asking for. Personally I don't have a problem with deadeye condi, fought one the other day and I thought it had good counter play to it, but then I haven't fought that build enough either to say that with full confidence. I'm not extremely knowledgeable when it comes to technicalities, I'm a solo player, I don't have a lot of time and I have to learn everything for myself. > > What you are not seeing is my perspective, all you care about is your build. What I am saying is that s/d condi trolls through and destroys new players far too easily. It is making ranked games lop sided and thus not enjoyable to play. It is an ez mode build with not much counter play and is not healthy to the spvp game mode with long term low population issues. I literally picked this build up in one game during season and was trolling through new players and even supposed experienced players no problems at all, because everyone is playing solo que s/d theif can even troll right up in plat as well because you can't communicate where he is to easily counter him. He ports in with a condi bomb and in a split second the fight can be over. > > The way I feel is that anybody actually defending this build has no idea what it's like to play ranked up at top 250 level and see how difficult games are when you actually get matched with all high plat players only then for them to use s/d theif to easily pick off your stray team mates. It's all good if people swap to counter comp but otherwise you are looking at a lop sided boring game. So if s/d theif can troll platinum players imagine how hard it can troll through new players, it's multiplicative. This skews leaderboards and makes the game even more unenjoyable, I really can't understand why people don't see this?? How can you enjoy something which kills the game?? > > If you would properly identify the TYPE of condition build that is causing the problem then you can more readily counter that build. Port/dodge/dodge might work against poorer players but once it understood how they get those conditions on then the port/dodge/dodge thief has to change tactics. They have few other ways of applying conditions. The dodge missiles from impaling have a limited range. In fact after the initial port to the target with an infiltrators if that target just dodges back he is very often out of range of those missiles. You do not have to STAND there. Dodge out of range of the impaling followup strikes and you are left with a couple of stacks of poison. There plenty of counterplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 take a good look at this....how much is too much for allowing this profession to break the game without having severe consequences for their actions whatsoever? -This easily demonstrates the full potential of Thief Profession and it not even against a player but a against a wvw boss- Just like blaming every opponents that it's their fault cause they didn't 'Dodge', so it's same with the wvw boss...**He Died Cause He Did Not Dodge'** correct?? Right!! The only one who i see dodging almost endlessly is who else than the one whose entitled...blameless **Thief Profession** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean.1469 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > > > The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that, with low population this kind of cheese build is counter productive in bringing any new players to pvp or keeping new players and even many old players do not like this build. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the support for condi theif myself, pretty much everyone I have actually spoken to in game, even the ones playing condi theif have all said they would sooner see it gone but just play it because it carries vs new players easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this game seem to forget that we have low population at the moment and can't afford for builds like this to be upsetting the status further, we need to look at balancing builds better without constant spike damage and focus on creating a meta which has more counter play other than who can nuke who first and snowball the fastest. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing but hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense in your post. I play a Condition thief and do not want to see it gone. I really can not see how any person that is legit can claim "I play condition thief and want to see it gone". If they want to see it gone do not play it. I play p/d condition thief using the DE spec. It hardly OP and does not do any of what you suggest in your post. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about a specific thief , in this case s/d condition then you are talking about THAT build and not condition thief. I do not understand how people can not grasp this. > > > > > > > > > > And yes as rowdy suggests the condition thief using the old traps was deadlier then today's version. S/d thief is not that great a build if people would take the time to understand how it works. They do not want to do that so pretend that the issue is with all condition thieves. > > > > > > > > I would have thought it is obvious that we were talking about s/d condition. The deadeye spec is far better and has some counter play I agree, but you completely missed my point. > > > > > > > > With S/d condi theif in the current meta game in a ranked game where you are often playing with 1 good player on each team and 3-4 low silver or lower, they have absolutely no understanding and all you do is watch the condi theif evade over each one of them twice and they die one by one, there is nothing you can do to carry these games sometimes and like I said in my post this is counter productive in helping to keep new players in ranked and bring new ones in. > > > > > > > > Low population is our biggest problem and for as long as people refuse to see cheese builds being a big part of that problem and call it a l2p git gud issue, low population will always be a massive problem for the game. > > > > > > > > But it's whatever, like burnfall said I'm just hurting myself talking about it. I should really just try and enjoy whats left of this game. > > > > > > No it was not rather obvious you were talking about s/d thief. The very title of this thread is nerf Condition thief. It does not say Nerf s/d condition thief. Added to that theso called fixes (see venoms) affect other condition builds. If one is talking only about s/d condition then why on earth suggest fixes that impact those other builds? > > > > I'll save you the hassle and tell you that every "nerf condi theif" thread is about s/d condition. Also I did not mention any fixes let alone fixes that affect other builds, so please don't get on the defensive about your build potentially getting nerfed, that's not what I or anyone else is asking for. Personally I don't have a problem with deadeye condi, fought one the other day and I thought it had good counter play to it, but then I haven't fought that build enough either to say that with full confidence. I'm not extremely knowledgeable when it comes to technicalities, I'm a solo player, I don't have a lot of time and I have to learn everything for myself. > > > > What you are not seeing is my perspective, all you care about is your build. What I am saying is that s/d condi trolls through and destroys new players far too easily. It is making ranked games lop sided and thus not enjoyable to play. It is an ez mode build with not much counter play and is not healthy to the spvp game mode with long term low population issues. I literally picked this build up in one game during season and was trolling through new players and even supposed experienced players no problems at all, because everyone is playing solo que s/d theif can even troll right up in plat as well because you can't communicate where he is to easily counter him. He ports in with a condi bomb and in a split second the fight can be over. > > > > The way I feel is that anybody actually defending this build has no idea what it's like to play ranked up at top 250 level and see how difficult games are when you actually get matched with all high plat players only then for them to use s/d theif to easily pick off your stray team mates. It's all good if people swap to counter comp but otherwise you are looking at a lop sided boring game. So if s/d theif can troll platinum players imagine how hard it can troll through new players, it's multiplicative. This skews leaderboards and makes the game even more unenjoyable, I really can't understand why people don't see this?? How can you enjoy something which kills the game?? > > > > > > If you would properly identify the TYPE of condition build that is causing the problem then you can more readily counter that build. > > Port/dodge/dodge might work against poorer players but once it understood how they get those conditions on then the port/dodge/dodge thief has to change tactics. They have few other ways of applying conditions. The dodge missiles from impaling have a limited range. In fact after the initial port to the target with an infiltrators if that target just dodges back he is very often out of range of those missiles. You do not have to STAND there. Dodge out of range of the impaling followup strikes and you are left with a couple of stacks of poison. There plenty of counterplay. Again you don't acknowledge a single thing I said. Just spewing out advice to somebody who doesn't need it, quite clearly on the defensive and not willing to see what is good for the game, it's very selfish. By the way I played with and against you, and shock horror (not) you were playing s/d condi theif. Omegalul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > > > > > @"Ocean.1469" said: > > > > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > > > > The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that, with low population this kind of cheese build is counter productive in bringing any new players to pvp or keeping new players and even many old players do not like this build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the support for condi theif myself, pretty much everyone I have actually spoken to in game, even the ones playing condi theif have all said they would sooner see it gone but just play it because it carries vs new players easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this game seem to forget that we have low population at the moment and can't afford for builds like this to be upsetting the status further, we need to look at balancing builds better without constant spike damage and focus on creating a meta which has more counter play other than who can nuke who first and snowball the fastest. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing but hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense in your post. I play a Condition thief and do not want to see it gone. I really can not see how any person that is legit can claim "I play condition thief and want to see it gone". If they want to see it gone do not play it. I play p/d condition thief using the DE spec. It hardly OP and does not do any of what you suggest in your post. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about a specific thief , in this case s/d condition then you are talking about THAT build and not condition thief. I do not understand how people can not grasp this. > > > > > > > > > > > > And yes as rowdy suggests the condition thief using the old traps was deadlier then today's version. S/d thief is not that great a build if people would take the time to understand how it works. They do not want to do that so pretend that the issue is with all condition thieves. > > > > > > > > > > I would have thought it is obvious that we were talking about s/d condition. The deadeye spec is far better and has some counter play I agree, but you completely missed my point. > > > > > > > > > > With S/d condi theif in the current meta game in a ranked game where you are often playing with 1 good player on each team and 3-4 low silver or lower, they have absolutely no understanding and all you do is watch the condi theif evade over each one of them twice and they die one by one, there is nothing you can do to carry these games sometimes and like I said in my post this is counter productive in helping to keep new players in ranked and bring new ones in. > > > > > > > > > > Low population is our biggest problem and for as long as people refuse to see cheese builds being a big part of that problem and call it a l2p git gud issue, low population will always be a massive problem for the game. > > > > > > > > > > But it's whatever, like burnfall said I'm just hurting myself talking about it. I should really just try and enjoy whats left of this game. > > > > > > > > No it was not rather obvious you were talking about s/d thief. The very title of this thread is nerf Condition thief. It does not say Nerf s/d condition thief. Added to that theso called fixes (see venoms) affect other condition builds. If one is talking only about s/d condition then why on earth suggest fixes that impact those other builds? > > > > > > I'll save you the hassle and tell you that every "nerf condi theif" thread is about s/d condition. Also I did not mention any fixes let alone fixes that affect other builds, so please don't get on the defensive about your build potentially getting nerfed, that's not what I or anyone else is asking for. Personally I don't have a problem with deadeye condi, fought one the other day and I thought it had good counter play to it, but then I haven't fought that build enough either to say that with full confidence. I'm not extremely knowledgeable when it comes to technicalities, I'm a solo player, I don't have a lot of time and I have to learn everything for myself. > > > > > > What you are not seeing is my perspective, all you care about is your build. What I am saying is that s/d condi trolls through and destroys new players far too easily. It is making ranked games lop sided and thus not enjoyable to play. It is an ez mode build with not much counter play and is not healthy to the spvp game mode with long term low population issues. I literally picked this build up in one game during season and was trolling through new players and even supposed experienced players no problems at all, because everyone is playing solo que s/d theif can even troll right up in plat as well because you can't communicate where he is to easily counter him. He ports in with a condi bomb and in a split second the fight can be over. > > > > > > The way I feel is that anybody actually defending this build has no idea what it's like to play ranked up at top 250 level and see how difficult games are when you actually get matched with all high plat players only then for them to use s/d theif to easily pick off your stray team mates. It's all good if people swap to counter comp but otherwise you are looking at a lop sided boring game. So if s/d theif can troll platinum players imagine how hard it can troll through new players, it's multiplicative. This skews leaderboards and makes the game even more unenjoyable, I really can't understand why people don't see this?? How can you enjoy something which kills the game?? > > > > > > > > > > If you would properly identify the TYPE of condition build that is causing the problem then you can more readily counter that build. > > > > Port/dodge/dodge might work against poorer players but once it understood how they get those conditions on then the port/dodge/dodge thief has to change tactics. They have few other ways of applying conditions. The dodge missiles from impaling have a limited range. In fact after the initial port to the target with an infiltrators if that target just dodges back he is very often out of range of those missiles. You do not have to STAND there. Dodge out of range of the impaling followup strikes and you are left with a couple of stacks of poison. There plenty of counterplay. > > Again you don't acknowledge a single thing I said. Just spewing out advice to somebody who doesn't need it, quite clearly on the defensive and not willing to see what is good for the game, it's very selfish. By the way I played with and against you, and shock horror (not) you were playing s/d condi theif. Omegalul. No you did not play against me, I do not have nor have i played a s/d condi thief. . The only s/x spec I have is s/p power and I have used s/d power. My condition build is a p/d sb thief using the DE line and has always been and I have also played d/d condition. If you look back at my posting history to the time Daredevil released I was never fond of the Daredevil condition build for p/d and always felt it substandard. If you have to make things up to make a point you have no argument whatsoever and are not worth the bother. You cant not be taken seriously because you just make things up. As to leaderboards and the like, I do not care about them. As further evidence that you just make things up, I do not PvP. Never have so you could not possibly have played with me or against me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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