SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 aren't then supposed to be tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 From my experience with this game, tanking doesn't mean wear bulky armor made from dragon's bones, that's why Mesmer of all classes is (used to be?) No. 1 Tank in Raid. Guardian have lot of skills to heal themself or reduce damage. this come to mind: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > From my experience with this game, tanking doesn't mean wear bulky armor made from dragon's bones, that's why Mesmer of all classes is (used to be?) No. 1 Tank in Raid. Guardian have lot of skills to heal themself or reduce damage. this come to mind: > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing of course you can build whatever you want, but classes have some role from the start and guardians have the role of a tank, but warriros have way more hp and defensive skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > > From my experience with this game, tanking doesn't mean wear bulky armor made from dragon's bones, that's why Mesmer of all classes is (used to be?) No. 1 Tank in Raid. Guardian have lot of skills to heal themself or reduce damage. this come to mind: > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing > > of course you can build whatever you want, but classes have some role from the start and guardians have the role of a tank, but warriros have way more hp and defensive skills Well if Guardian is like Warrior then........why do Guardian need to exist? Also Guardian have more defensive skills than Warrior, but most them are for defending/healing teammates. They can both tank but in different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > > > From my experience with this game, tanking doesn't mean wear bulky armor made from dragon's bones, that's why Mesmer of all classes is (used to be?) No. 1 Tank in Raid. Guardian have lot of skills to heal themself or reduce damage. this come to mind: > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing > > > > of course you can build whatever you want, but classes have some role from the start and guardians have the role of a tank, but warriros have way more hp and defensive skills > > Well if Guardian is like Warrior then........why do Guardian need to exist? Also Guardian have more defensive skills than Warrior, but most them are for defending/healing teammates. They can both tank but in different way. well guardian are not supposed to be like warriors, but why warriors have more hp if they have way more damage? stats=/= playstyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > > > > From my experience with this game, tanking doesn't mean wear bulky armor made from dragon's bones, that's why Mesmer of all classes is (used to be?) No. 1 Tank in Raid. Guardian have lot of skills to heal themself or reduce damage. this come to mind: > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing > > > > > > of course you can build whatever you want, but classes have some role from the start and guardians have the role of a tank, but warriros have way more hp and defensive skills > > > > Well if Guardian is like Warrior then........why do Guardian need to exist? Also Guardian have more defensive skills than Warrior, but most them are for defending/healing teammates. They can both tank but in different way. > > well guardian are not supposed to be like warriors, but why warriors have more hp if they have way more damage? stats=/= playstyle Do you fight against lot of Guardian? Any class can stay alive and can kill high hp if players know how to use them! stats =/= skills Edit: also because of Anet brilliant balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > @"Ultramex.1506" said: > > > > > From my experience with this game, tanking doesn't mean wear bulky armor made from dragon's bones, that's why Mesmer of all classes is (used to be?) No. 1 Tank in Raid. Guardian have lot of skills to heal themself or reduce damage. this come to mind: > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing > > > > > > > > of course you can build whatever you want, but classes have some role from the start and guardians have the role of a tank, but warriros have way more hp and defensive skills > > > > > > Well if Guardian is like Warrior then........why do Guardian need to exist? Also Guardian have more defensive skills than Warrior, but most them are for defending/healing teammates. They can both tank but in different way. > > > > well guardian are not supposed to be like warriors, but why warriors have more hp if they have way more damage? stats=/= playstyle > > Do you fight against lot of Guardian? Any class can stay alive and can kill high hp if players know how to use them! stats =/= skills > Edit: also because of Anet brilliant balance. yes i know guardians have more sustain so that make them tankier but if you dont build for heal all the sustain is gone and you have left with 11k base health Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > yes i know guardians have more sustain so that make them tankier but if you dont build for heal all the sustain is gone and you have left with 11k base health I'm sure players who run glass-cannon guardian know how to sustain but ehhhh i only know pure tank/support little dps build in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 'Intent' (your intent, specifically) doesn't matter as much as you might think. There's only...what the class can do, and how, in comparison to the others. If you look at Guardian as a whole, instead of narrowing your focus to JUST their base health, you'll start to get somewhere. Also, mesmer (used to?) be the no 1 tank in raids because the gear set that made it extremely valuable as a support also happened to offer a large amount of toughness (and I think vit? Idk). That, combined with their class design - medium health, evades/distorts, and blocks made them the most EFFICIENT in that slot. That the majority of their defenses (again, distorts, evades, blocks) did NOT depend on health meant they could switch armor a bit to put out some decent damage, too, if they were comfortable with mechanics and could use their active defenses properly. Mesmer carried the pve meta for years because it could do so much. Compared to warr, who has a little more passive defense, well. *shrug* Anyway, that's why mucking about with 'guardian only has 11k health so it isn't a tank' is terrible. 'guardians have role of tank from beginning' says who? xD And if someone said it, why does that matter compared to reality? I mean, if guardian is falling short of anet's vision, then that might be something...but if it's just you going 'this is how I think things should work', then. Uh. Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > aren't then supposed to be tank? From what I remember, in beta Guardian had the same health tier as warrior. But it was deemed op due to guardians access to a multitude of blocks, aegis and boons in general. So they were nerfed to the lowest tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtoPScrub.5476 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Because the original design behind the low hp pool was that Core Guard would be what FB support is today. It might've been true for a little bit in WvW but these days it no longer makes sense to impose 11k hp on Core/DH. Many balancing issues would be solved if they had elite spec specific hp pools rather than class wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 It's a really basic tradeoff: **Healthpool, sustain, team support, mobility, damage**. When making a build on any class, choose 3 to be above average, or 2 to be really good at. If the game doesnt forces you to choose, thats is a huge balancing issue (_cough_ holo for the last 2 years _cough_) So yeah, guardians have better sustain and lower health. As they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said: > Because the original design behind the low hp pool was that Core Guard would be what FB support is today. It might've been true for a little bit in WvW but these days it no longer makes sense to impose 11k hp on Core/DH. Many balancing issues would be solved if they had elite spec specific hp pools rather than class wide. agree 100%, same with armour types, for example I can see medium armoured elementalist as a support/tanky type and spellbreaker being lightarmoured anticaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"Aza.2105" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > aren't then supposed to be tank? > > From what I remember, in beta Guardian had the same health tier as warrior. But it was deemed op due to guardians access to a **multitude of blocks, aegis and boons in general**. So they were nerfed to the lowest tier. isn't that what a warrior/holo/ranger are now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 OP is just biased by the archetype of a paladin with high health pool and last-man-standing-mentality. GW2 broke with many of those unwritten 'rules'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 guardians already have alot of heals, blocks and retaliation and you want high health on top of all that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > guardians already have alot of heals, blocks and retaliation and you want high health on top of all that? well maybe more hp than a deadeye? also 90% of the classes has access to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > OP is just biased by the archetype of a paladin with high health pool and last-man-standing-mentality. GW2 broke with many of those unwritten 'rules'. so why they wear heavy armor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > guardians already have alot of heals, blocks and retaliation and you want high health on top of all that? > > well maybe more hp than a deadeye? also 90% of the classes has access to it not to guardians level they don't. that's ike saying necro isn't condi focused because other classes have condi's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > guardians already have alot of heals, blocks and retaliation and you want high health on top of all that? > > > > well maybe more hp than a deadeye? also 90% of the classes has access to it > > not to guardians level they don't. that's ike saying necro isn't condi focused because other classes have condi's yes they do, guardians only have better heals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > OP is just biased by the archetype of a paladin with high health pool and last-man-standing-mentality. GW2 broke with many of those unwritten 'rules'. > > so why they wear heavy armor? The armor doesn't make a big difference. I think they wanted look him like this archetype. Think outside of the box. Nothing is set in stone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > > OP is just biased by the archetype of a paladin with high health pool and last-man-standing-mentality. GW2 broke with many of those unwritten 'rules'. > > > > so why they wear heavy armor? > > The armor doesn't make a big difference. I think they wanted look him like this archetype. Think outside of the box. Nothing is set in stone... well i know you can do whatever you want on the class but at least 15k base health for guardians is legit, 11k is the same as thief health, if you don't build for heals/hp you are dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepwalker.1398 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > guardians already have alot of heals, blocks and retaliation and you want high health on top of all that? > > > > > > well maybe more hp than a deadeye? also 90% of the classes has access to it > > > > not to guardians level they don't. that's ike saying necro isn't condi focused because other classes have condi's > > yes they do, guardians only have better heals So what exactly do you want to play if you had high hp guard? dps? support? condi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Guards can be extremely tanky given their defensive skills. Their skills would need massive heavy nerfs if hp was increased on any significant level. Imagine guards having the sustain they do now plus tank level hp lol no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 You have to check for effective hp not for base hp. Classes with a lot of healing abilities often have lower base hp but still the highest effective hp, same with Ele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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