Many of us kind of take a lot of things in GW2 for granted.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> its easy to take gw2 for granted when gw1 did everything better.

That is a highly subjective statement.

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said:

> > > So because Bethesda is pulling some (*insert kitten here*) ANet is suddenly incredible company?

> >

> > Yes. It's called perspective. Seeing how bad other people have it let you know how good you have it.

>

> Be happy with your drink of urine, the guy over there paid for a plate of poop. It's not so bad.

>

> Just because other situations are bad doesn't automatically make everything else 'having it good', just comparatively *less bad*

>

> And GW2 is certainly not 'having it good' right now.

 

Quit being overdramatic. Nobody is forcing you to eat excrement.

[Dalec.9853]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said:

> > > > So because Bethesda is pulling some (*insert kitten here*) ANet is suddenly incredible company?

> > >

> > > Yes. It's called perspective. Seeing how bad other people have it let you know how good you have it.

> >

> > Be happy with your drink of urine, the guy over there paid for a plate of poop. It's not so bad.

> >

> > Just because other situations are bad doesn't automatically make everything else 'having it good', just comparatively *less bad*

> >

> > And GW2 is certainly not 'having it good' right now.

>

> Quit being overdramatic. Nobody is forcing you to eat excrement.

 

Yeah because I uninstalled it.

[Yasi.9065]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> Many of us kind of take a lot of things in GW2 for granted.

>

> Not all but many of us take some of the quality stuff we get in GW2 for granted, myself included.

>

> I been bored of the recent content gap and updates for SPvP /WvW, so I recently decided to try another MMO. It took me some time in this recent MMO to realize how important Polish alone means to me.

>

> Also certain big and small things like;

> *Open Tagging

> *Dynamic Events and Group content of all Levels

> *Easy to understand UI that is smooth enough to use and not clunky.

>

> And so much more.

> There is a lot to not like about GW2, but I tell you, there is a lot to like as well.

 

I have to disagree on the UI. Its anything but clean and straightforward. Just look at the hero panel. Everything crammed into that one window, and many things hidden into sub-sub menus.

Also, dynamic events have horrible to none scaling, making everything easy mode. One of the biggest issues actually with GW2 and its bad rep as "the beginner mmo".

 

There are other positive things about GW2, like how smooth the combat system is, or how well the server technology *usually* works.

[Super Hayes.6890]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> When people start simply playing the game for its content and what it is instead of adding layers of no-impact garbage like 'no dev communication' as factors to their playing decisions, the game indeed is quite good and lots of high value it offers. I think Anet strayed a bit for a while trying to retain fringe players ... let's hope they get back on track.

>

 

Man there's a lot of text walls up there but this post really sums the topic up nicely.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"C Cspace Cowboy.5903" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"c space cowboy.2764" said:

> > > I've spent more money on this game than any subscription.

> > >

> > > What have I received?

> > >

> > > A laggy bug filled game mode that hasn't received any content or fixes for said problems. Oh and empty promises.

> > >

> > > Now this "quality" of life update...

> > >

> > > LMFAO

> >

> > That's more than just a little dishonest ... if the game was that bad, you wouldn't have spent as much time or money on it that you are implying.

>

> We were promised, several times, fixes, population balance, updates, etc...

>

> And time and time again, many of us believed it.

>

> Naive is better word then dishonest.

>

> Slowly, as all of my friends and guild mates quit the game, I started to understand why.

>

> Not naive anymore.

>

> 400$ to max build/gear templates for one of each class..... LMFAO

>

> And here I thought 100$ subscription to FalloutFirst was a joke.

 

Hold on ... at first you were naive and that's all it would have been if you just stopped playing because you ACTUALLY felt that way. It became dishonest when you pretend the game offers you no value, yet you still engage with it.

[Dalec.9853]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> When people start simply playing the game for its content and what it is instead of adding layers of no-impact garbage like 'no dev communication' as factors to their playing decisions, the game indeed is quite good and lots of high value it offers. I think Anet strayed a bit for a while trying to retain fringe players ... let's hope they get back on track.

>

 

The game being quite good and offering high value is just an opinion, I'd say it is awful now* and offers little value at this point, but that is also just an opinion.

\* Obviously it wasn't always this way to me

 

Who were the fringe players they were trying to retain btw, are 7 year vets included in that? What were the actions they took that you consider to be straying?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > its easy to take gw2 for granted when gw1 did everything better.

> That is a highly subjective statement.

>

 

only if you don't know what i'm talking about.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

> @"hanabal lecter.2495" said:

> I think most people just get irritated because there is a lot of wasted potential in gw2, it's a good game but it can easily do better if there was better communication between the players and the devs from the start.

 

Exactly this.

GW2 is the best MMO I have ever played and that includes WOW (although that is probably a personal preference). BUT GW2 could be a lot better. Just look at the Build Templates - they aren't nearly what they could've been if anet had listened to the feedback they had gotten... And thats just the most recent example.

 

I do appreciate the game a lot but it is really frustrating to see all the little annoying avoidable things add up even though they keep getting a lot of constructive feedback.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > When people start simply playing the game for its content and what it is instead of adding layers of no-impact garbage like 'no dev communication' as factors to their playing decisions, the game indeed is quite good and lots of high value it offers. I think Anet strayed a bit for a while trying to retain fringe players ... let's hope they get back on track.

> >

>

> The game being quite good and offering high value is just an opinion, I'd say it is awful now* and offers little value at this point, but that is also just an opinion.

> \* Obviously it wasn't always this way to me

>

> Who were the fringe players they were trying to retain btw, are 7 year vets included in that? What were the actions they took that you consider to be straying?

 

It offers as much value as it did in the past ... Anet didn't remove anything.

 

Also, the price didn't change ... so what you are saying doesn't make sense.

 

But you uninstalled anyways ... so what do you care? You're done right?

[Iozeph.5617]

Well here's a question then for veteran players. Based on the quality and the quantity of content put out within the last few years, do you feel ANet takes its customers for granted?

[finkle.9513]

Funny there never seems to be a issue with developing items for the cash shop.. always seems thats the priority... maybe when they are down to the last few thousand players, they may change their ways and listen to the player base? but even then I wouldn't be so sure, been so stubborn and defensive to date even when made huge mistakes.

[finkle.9513]

> @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> Gw2 is a great pay for entry game. You can literally enjoy everything without paying a single dime. No sub fee no and pay to win is great business model.

 

But its got to be a fun meaningful experience, that makes you feel good.

 

Washing dishes and hoovering the floor is a awesome introduction into be a home owner and its free also.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

I think a lot of people here talk about lack of content..

 

But if you pull yourself out of the box and look at it from a different perspective, if the game has solid repeatable content that isn’t boring, it would yield the same if not better results as additional content.

 

I always use this as an example, but Megaman Battle Network is a game in which you basically beat it 6 times. Each time you beat the game which is essentially the same story wise, there comes an additional layer of complexity and learning that comes with each completion, and you are awarded fairly with each iteration.

 

Upon completion of the game, the end game content was S-ranking all the Navi’s. This means defeating opponents in less than 10 seconds. The hardest Navi being Bass Omega, and what I would consider to be the final final boss, you can often gain many many hours of gameplay ( months even years) to finally pull it off, and in summary you’ve experienced so much value from the same content.

 

I think it’s fair to compare how this game handles repeatable content, in that the amount of work the dev team puts out doesn’t even compete, because the value of the repeatable content isn’t really valuable at all. You beat it once, and the next time there’s nothing else to gain from it.

 

It very much comes down to mechanics, and how much these mechanics vary in complexity to give both beginners and end users the same level of enjoyment upon repetition. This is why PVP and WVW excel in keeping most of its players for long long periods of time, because the complexity is there and the neglect of these game modes is a huge HUGE mistake, watching it slowly die because of balance issues, lack of build diversity with every patch and neglect in fixing match making and population, it’s a shame that even the most veteran of players are beginning to quit

 

But aside from those game modes, PVE is the biggest source of or rather biggest sink of resources for minimal returns, and what ends up happening is people digest the content and then want more because it’s not complex enough to encourage repeatable play. It’s not hard to see why people take these massive living world updates for granted, and with just a bit of investment on analyzing how to make repeatable content more complex, I think people taking it for granted would go away.

 

[Krzysztof.5973]

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> I think a lot of people here talk about lack of content..

>

> But if you pull yourself out of the box and look at it from a different perspective, if the game has solid repeatable content that isn’t boring, it would yield the same if not better results as additional content.

>

> I always use this as an example, but Megaman Battle Network is a game in which you basically beat it 6 times. Each time you beat the game which is essentially the same story wise, there comes an additional layer of complexity and learning that comes with each completion, and you are awarded fairly with each iteration.

>

> Upon completion of the game, the end game content was S-ranking all the Navi’s. This means defeating opponents in less than 10 seconds. The hardest Navi being Bass Omega, and what I would consider to be the final final boss, you can often gain many many hours of gameplay ( months even years) to finally pull it off, and in summary you’ve experienced so much value from the same content.

>

> I think it’s fair to compare how this game handles repeatable content, in that the amount of work the dev team puts out doesn’t even compete, because the value of the repeatable content isn’t really valuable at all. You beat it once, and the next time there’s nothing else to gain from it.

>

> It very much comes down to mechanics, and how much these mechanics vary in complexity to give both beginners and end users the same level of enjoyment upon repetition. This is why PVP and WVW excel in keeping most of its players for long long periods of time, because the complexity is there and the neglect of these game modes is a huge HUGE mistake, watching it slowly die because of balance issues, lack of build diversity with every patch and neglect in fixing match making and population, it’s a shame that even the most veteran of players are beginning to quit

>

> But aside from those game modes, PVE is the biggest source of or rather biggest sink of resources for minimal returns, and what ends up happening is people digest the content and then want more because it’s not complex enough to encourage repeatable play. It’s not hard to see why people take these massive living world updates for granted, and with just a bit of investment on analyzing how to make repeatable content more complex, I think people taking it for granted would go away.

>

 

Why, there is a lot of content! There's been so much drama with the templates I've been entertained for over 2 weeks now!

[Krzysztof.5973]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > > > @"Krzysztof.5973" said:

> > > > > So because Bethesda is pulling some (*insert kitten here*) ANet is suddenly incredible company?

> > > >

> > > > Yes. It's called perspective. Seeing how bad other people have it let you know how good you have it.

> > >

> > > Be happy with your drink of urine, the guy over there paid for a plate of poop. It's not so bad.

> > >

> > > Just because other situations are bad doesn't automatically make everything else 'having it good', just comparatively *less bad*

> > >

> > > And GW2 is certainly not 'having it good' right now.

> >

> > Quit being overdramatic. Nobody is forcing you to eat excrement.

>

> Yeah because I uninstalled it.

 

You can't deny some people their plate of poop, they have right to enjoy it.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > At this point its too late, because they've been in this spiral of accretion for way too long, and theres simply way too much content to try and backport. Before the mass lay offs there was enough hope going forward that course corrections were still possible, and enough staff to clean up future mechanics. But never once was there any assumption that old content could be fixed.....

> > >

> > > Now that layoffs happened, and the direction shown by class balance teams is not at all promising, I'm now firmly in the camp that a clean slate is realistically our best possible scenario for more long term sustainability. Everything from HOT onward is built on experimentation, but haven't been properly cleaned up. Thats actually a HUGE problem if you look at story content as something new players are expecting to go through in order to get caught up. Something even WoW does it best to help speed up or bypass due to supersession, given its obsession with locking players into an endgame loop.

> > >

> > > The stuff you're also mentioning about advancing the time line has been shot down/lamented by gamers on 3 different occasions in 3 different games, largely for the same reasons. Most people didn't care about Realm Reborn, because the game prior was just such a mess that restarting with a new timeline wasn't a loss.

> > >

> > > LS1 and LS2 changed Tyria forever.... and new players got mad because they had no idea whats going on, and all the epic happenings of LS1 are locked off to them forever. Old LA still being part of the personal story exists entirely of necessity, as the system its built on is a black box. In fact, they can't even rectify a lot of Core Tyria's existing events; they can only disable whole sale, or insert new conditional variables, but have to maintain or point to all existing ones to avoid breakage. Grenth's Temple in Cursed Shore is the most dramatic change to an existing event since launch- and really all they did was change the Boss's skill profile (to make it easier to fight), repointed a failure condition in one event to the failure condition of another (to force the NPC to run away), and inserted in a break timer so it wouldn't kick off again immediately.

> > >

> > > Then theres WoW players still kind of pissed off about Cataclysm, as all previous areas and quests are now references to pre-cataclysm content that no longer exists. New players are confused because they don't know whats being referenced, and older players have no opportunities to revisit it if they wanted to.

> > >

> > > Rappelz was an old Korean game I used to play that used to do stuff like that a couple times per year, and later moved toward adding everything new as part of new maps and quest lines- since map changes started actively interfering with quest lines used for leveling. Being a Korean game with a kitten ton of leveling grinding, you can see why they wanted to stop having to reorganize them every 6 months or so.

> > >

> > > With FOMO being such a huge part of the current gaming culture, its compounding the already existing problem of how games age and burn out. MMOs have it the worst, since resetting the game back to zero is a non-option. At least single player games are structured in a way that you can fix new play throughs, and its finite format makes it tolerable or even desirable. But another thing to remember is that MMOs never had a precedent for long term content or story plans until WoW started doing rapid expansions in its early life. Up until then, most MMOs just adapted and added as needed, and this whole idea of a 10 year life cycle was not even a thing. No game that pitched a 10 year life cycle (like was popular at the turn of the decade) came even close to the stability that 10 year plan implied. Many were brought to the edge of failure within 1-2 years (with the reasons often being specific to each game), and I haven't even cared enough to see if many of them are even around anymore.

> > >

> > > So back to GW2..... we're faced with a problem of new content struggling to find a proper foot hold, and much of the old content now being an active detriment to the new player experience. Veteran players took a solid beating over the years with how HOT changed a lot of the game's underlying approach to game play and content, but we only had to deal with it in small chunks. New players are getting whip lash at every content block, because they're all built on different paradigms. Many of which had to be rectified later on in a different content block, or through a succeeding paradigm. Mounts and Gliding also have had a major impact in how we handle old content, and we've unofficially made it the defacto "Catch up" mechanic for the game.

> > >

> > > The glut of old content is starting to become dead weight. But we can't cull it, because players have an unhealthy obsession with content that drives their view of game value, as much as it corrupts it. Just looking at the whole net result of unique skin rewards and AP being tied to collections, made even more intense with the Legendary trinket collections. Plus at 7 years in, NOW would be the time to start laying the ground work for a new game if that 10 year life span is to be held to. Taking everything learned over all this time, and creating a better framework to do all the things this game and this engine struggled with.

> >

> > Guild wars 2 almost made this company go bankrupt and NCsoft expects more from this title, We will not if ever see guild wars 3 with the current climate in which it exists. It is out there and probably was being worked on but it won't be something we see for a good long while yet, that is if A-net even survives the constant tug-o-war going on between the players, the dev's and NCsoft. Hope is and has an expiration date and the new build templates yielding mine, I have little confidence or hope for this game and at this point It saddens me because I Feel like without something ANYTHING that is a major shake up this game is doomed. We have too much coming out in the coming few years, and we have more games going further than This one has with their willingness to change and grow. Clearly the formula isn't working anymore and the playerbase is discontent... this is not a good thing and I don't know how to fix it.

>

> False, its been confirmed that ArenaNet had other projects in development and that's where the funding was going, not GW2.

 

Not false, You didn't see what I meant. When guild wars 2 was originally in development it almost caused them to go bankrupt and its potential remains untapped in many ways; I am well aware that they stopped caring for and developing much for this game years ago. That much became evident with how long so many issues have remained, they were already planning on moving on.

 

One of those projects more than likely was a prototype for guild wars 3~

[Dalec.9853]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > When people start simply playing the game for its content and what it is instead of adding layers of no-impact garbage like 'no dev communication' as factors to their playing decisions, the game indeed is quite good and lots of high value it offers. I think Anet strayed a bit for a while trying to retain fringe players ... let's hope they get back on track.

> > >

> >

> > The game being quite good and offering high value is just an opinion, I'd say it is awful now* and offers little value at this point, but that is also just an opinion.

> > \* Obviously it wasn't always this way to me

> >

> > Who were the fringe players they were trying to retain btw, are 7 year vets included in that? What were the actions they took that you consider to be straying?

>

> It offers as much value as it did in the past ... Anet didn't remove anything.

>

> Also, the price didn't change ... so what you are saying doesn't make sense.

>

> But you uninstalled anyways ... so what do you care? You're done right?

 

Technically they did remove things - LW Season 1 for the big example.

Value and the game being good are personal opinions though and value of older content that was enjoyable still reduces over time after it's been repeated enough - that's why fresh content is important to an MMO. and What has been added for a while has been lacking in quality - again my opinion, shared by many from the complaints, disagreed with by many I assume from the defending.

 

Yeah I left but didn't realise that bans me from being frustrated at the path of the game I liked.

 

You ignored the question about fringe players btw.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > When people start simply playing the game for its content and what it is instead of adding layers of no-impact garbage like 'no dev communication' as factors to their playing decisions, the game indeed is quite good and lots of high value it offers. I think Anet strayed a bit for a while trying to retain fringe players ... let's hope they get back on track.

> > > >

> > >

> > > The game being quite good and offering high value is just an opinion, I'd say it is awful now* and offers little value at this point, but that is also just an opinion.

> > > \* Obviously it wasn't always this way to me

> > >

> > > Who were the fringe players they were trying to retain btw, are 7 year vets included in that? What were the actions they took that you consider to be straying?

> >

> > It offers as much value as it did in the past ... Anet didn't remove anything.

> >

> > Also, the price didn't change ... so what you are saying doesn't make sense.

> >

> > But you uninstalled anyways ... so what do you care? You're done right?

>

> Technically they did remove things - LW Season 1 for the big example.

> Value and the game being good are personal opinions though and value of older content that was enjoyable still reduces over time after it's been repeated enough - that's why fresh content is important to an MMO. and What has been added for a while has been lacking in quality - again my opinion, shared by many from the complaints, disagreed with by many I assume from the defending.

 

So in your opinion, Anet removed LS1 ... and that's why you are leaving? Did you not get to play LS1 and get the value from that content? See, I don't buy into sensational statements like what you're throwing around here ... You paid for access, you got access, you used access. If you play with any sort of regularity, you probably have up to hundreds if not thousands hours logged into the game for whatever you paid ... so your entertainment value is exceptionally high relative to almost anything else you can do for entertainment. And now you're going to claim because LS1 was removed it's awful value? Sure ... and that's why your credibility = zero.

 

We had some lackluster LS releases ... value is diminished some ... but your claim that it's awful ... for get it.

>

> Yeah I left but didn't realise that bans me from being frustrated at the path of the game I liked.

>

 

Be frustrated all you want ... but that's not a license to be sensational to try and drive whatever point you have home harder.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > its easy to take gw2 for granted when gw1 did everything better.

> > That is a highly subjective statement.

> >

>

> only if you don't know what i'm talking about.

 

Of course it is.

 

I played GW1 for the entire time it was out, i miss very little from that game, but what i do miss would make me love GW2 so much more if it had. I can never play GW1 again, but the stuff GW2 doesnt have makes me wish i could sometimes.

[Vancho.8750]

The UI is kinda bad, it is terrible for following boons and conditions, the crafting UI is a mess needs favorite recipes at least, the LFG is getting really annoying to navigate, some stuff should be put in different categories and some should be made into one like dungeons, and why isn't there a shortcut button for the achievement menu so it is possible to see you achievement quest progress when you want instead of clicking several times over and over.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

How many gems did Anet lie about giving you to write this obvious derail?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> Of course it is.

>

> I played GW1 for the entire time it was out, i miss very little from that game, but what i do miss would make me love GW2 so much more if it had. I can never play GW1 again, but the stuff GW2 doesnt have makes me wish i could sometimes.

 

wat. heretic lol! how can you not miss _everything_. biggest thing for me is the sheer amount of skills gw1 had. so many choices, so many theory crafting options... one can dream man. keep it alive!

[Dalec.9853]

@"Obtena.7952"

 

The LWS1 example was just because you said they had not removed anything when you know that isn't true, of course it's not the reason I left so not sure why you latched onto that. That wouldn't even make sense when I've said I enjoyed the game at that point.

 

As you rightly say with many thousands of hours in the game the value has been exceptionally high, time and money very well spent, but that is in the past and the game cannot live on old content alone, it gets stale and boring and has no continuing value once it has outlived its fun times.

 

I'm not counting old content in current value as it is at that boring point for me so there is no current continued value in it just because it had in the past, and recent releases (or well since PoF a fair amount of them) have been a negative experience so personally have no value either.

 

 

[Super Hayes.6890]

I just watched my kids jump into the pit in the Queen's Arena over and over for an hour chanting "I can make it, I can make it." Now they are laughing uncontrollably because of it. Shame on us for not remembering how to have fun lol.