Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates

[Klypto.1703]

My two biggest problems with this is first that if you like to play rev if you switch builds its like a puzzle re-arranging every single skill where it is supposed to be in the build template. Then after that hoping and praying that when you press the button that it is actually the skill that is being shown. So this system for playing rev is like gambling at the roulette table when you try to use a skill. Then also wierd crap happens if you need to switch legendary pieces out because it may show you have infusions but then not actually have any at all and have to go find out exactly where these infusions are located if you play a lot of different characters.

 

So overall I had become bored with the game but then this build system made it entirely too frustrating to even bother with this game anymore. I would love to know whose great idea it was to say hey lets make it where it automatically strips every upgrade out of your legendary items and play hide and seek with them. So I guess the bigger picture here is that they want players to stop spending money on legendary items and replace them back with ascended(great job anet but I am kind of too annoyed to do that).

[susana.7814]

> @"Rubi Bayer.8493" said:

> Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in [last week's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099265/#Comment_1099265 "last week's post"), we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.

>

> We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.

>

> Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.

>

> This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.

>

 

This still doesn't address the over aggressive monetization models put in place.

[Rose Solane.1027]

> @"Rubi Bayer.8493" said:

> Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in [last week's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099265/#Comment_1099265 "last week's post"), we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.

>

> We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.

>

> Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.

>

> This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.

>

 

I am happy to see this update. Happy it see it coming, it solves the only part of build templates that was a direct downgrade in functionality for me. Now I have the same three equipment "templates" (PvE, PvP and WvW) I had before the build templates released but I can use the PvP one I did not needed for another build. Happy to see it coming earlier than I expected. And happy to see communication about it.

[Kravey.4563]

Among all the problems brought by templates the biggest one wasn't addressed - AGGRESSIVE MONETIZATION. It's obvious to me now you're not going to address it anyway. I will not pay for that. You are not having my gems. No. Just no.

 

 

 

No.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kravey.4563" said:

> Among all the problems brought by templates the biggest one wasn't addressed - AGGRESSIVE MONETIZATION. It's obvious to me now you're not going to address it anyway. I will not pay for that. You are not having my gems. No. Just no.

> No.

 

Well, the whole thing was obviously specifically designed for monetization. I don't think the devs who developed it didn't know a system similar to ArcDPS (which I never used) wouldn't have been more practical and overall the better way to go - with real templates instead of loadouts, no slot and saving option limits, and builds and equipment being linked. Separating builds and gear made for more loadouts, and this loadout system made for less convenience unless you buy more slots, which you pay for per slot per character. This was _all_ calculated, no doubt about it.

 

That's probably why they added equipment storage: they thought it would appease people as a QoL feature, just as they thought being able to use upgrades in several loadouts at once on legendary gear would be a QoL addition. They missed two important factors: the additional hassle another equipment location and the separate handling of upgrades would cause, and the vast inventory space we have nowadays.

[Mikuchan.7261]

> @"Rubi Bayer.8493" said:

> Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in [last week's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099265/#Comment_1099265 "last week's post"), we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.

>

> We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.

>

> Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.

>

> This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.

>

 

Thank you!

These are some nice improvements assuming care is taken to implement them in a way such that they don't become distruptive in other ways.

 

However now there have been 2 replies (which is good) without any word about people's concern over the monetization and other major issues (which is not as good).

It'd be very nice if we could have a word on what is planned to happen with that.

I get the "when it's done" or "when it's done enough" idea, but these are issues that could maybe be expedited a bit, for the sake of calming people down and preventing people from leaving and/or spreading sadness.

[Infusion.7149]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Kravey.4563" said:

> > Among all the problems brought by templates the biggest one wasn't addressed - AGGRESSIVE MONETIZATION. It's obvious to me now you're not going to address it anyway. I will not pay for that. You are not having my gems. No. Just no.

> > No.

>

> Well, the whole thing was obviously specifically designed for monetization. I don't think the devs who developed it didn't know a system similar to ArcDPS (which I never used) wouldn't have been more practical and overall the better way to go - with real templates instead of loadouts, no slot and saving option limits, and builds and equipment being linked. Separating builds and gear made for more loadouts, and this loadout system made for less convenience unless you buy more slots, which you pay for per slot per character. This was _all_ calculated, no doubt about it.

>

> That's probably why they added equipment storage: they thought it would appease people as a QoL feature, just as they thought being able to use upgrades in several loadouts at once would be a QoL addition. They missed two important factors: the additional hassle another equipment location and the separate handling of upgrades would cause, and the vast inventory space we have nowadays.

Beating the dead horse here, so to speak. No business makes extra features and doesn't intend to ROI on it. Monetization isn't something that needs to be bug-fixed though so that's sort of a side-issue.

 

The issue at hand is how much build storage and templates cost: prior to their release it was mentioned that it would be in line with bank tabs (i.e. 600 gems = 30 slots) and bag slots (i.e. 20 slots up to 32 slots for 400 gems).

 

What equipment templates ended up being was a bit more than that at 500 gems, which could possibly be justified in that they are hotkeyed and can hold "up to 60 items" when you include the infusions and upgrades that aren't held separate from armor/weapons/trinkets. People with legendary armor , weapons, & trinkets in multiple templates get ripped off a bit in that you can't have different wardrobe appearances and don't save on inventory spaces. What many are forgetting is that by eliminating the items from inventory, there's fewer variables involved for Arenanet to deal with since the location of an item in inventory is not a concern. Not deleting items was stated as a priority during development and the overflow result when encumbered shows this. Equipment templates are probably the way they are due to Berserker's + Viper's fitting the majority of a PvE-only userbase. Two is the bare minimum in order to showcase the feature.

 

Build templates at 300 gems are likely priced due to their hotkey function, but due to not being bound to game mode (i.e. PvE, PvP, WvW) there isn't an incentive over character slots for most PvE or WvW players as it isn't an account-wide unlock. For PvP since you can't swap builds mid-match there isn't a reason to purchase any over build storage. The best way this could be rectified without going accountwide unlock is having 1 or 2 PvE-only, 1 WvW, 1 PvP build template as the default given combination , with greater maximum build storage given to all players. Obviously an account-wide unlock is more appealing and would be similar to additional crafting license (800 gems).

 

Build storage is the most egregious portion of the system, because it doesn't do anything special: you're paying 500 gems ($6.25) for storage of 3 chatcodes which is mobile freemium level pricing. Given there's 9 classes there really should be a minimum of 9 given "for free" instead of the 3+3 free for the first month(s) , along with far greater amounts per purchase. The fact that there is 6x for purchase (at 3 each, up to 24 total) means it's way overpriced when it could have easily been up to two purchases and 9 slots per purchase if 24 is a technical hard limit. The best way to rectify this is to increase build storage size (if 9 packs it would go up to 60 total instead of 24 , as 6+54=60 while 6+18=24) and retroactively give everyone a pack of 9 that purchased a pack of 3. If it were truly in line with a bank tab (which admittedly has higher complexity due to more variables than 3 traitlines and 1-2-3) we'd see something similar to around 350 to 400 gems for 18 storage. When you frame it that way, it looks horrific.

[kharmin.7683]

In a game where one can play, earn gold, convert to gems and never have to spend any real money, we have complaints about extreme or excessive monetization?

[susana.7814]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> In a game where one can play, earn gold, convert to gems and never have to spend any real money, we have complaints about extreme or excessive monetization?

 

Do you know how long it will take to farm 30k gems worth of gold? The complaints are justified and i think you know that.

 

[fra.5241]

This is what I hate about it: **slots soulbound on unlock** and **high prices per item**.

I was remembering Guild Wars 1 while I wrote this one. People were capable to save/load builds and equipments easly without worrying about money. Anyway, I can understand the worries of a company like Arenanet, therefore I appreciate this Template System as it is (excluding that I said above).

[hyperboria.2136]

sorry, tldr

how about to make this build storage to a list of "role" builds those are combinations of trait builds and gear. and give the role build switching the hotkeys

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> Beating the dead horse here, so to speak.

 

I wasn't beating a dead horse, I was merely explaining that the design clearly shows that it _was specifically made_ for monetization, so anyone complaining about _that_ is beating the dead horse. ;) Had they had the best possible design in mind and not how to make the most money out of it, it would have been designed similar to ArcDPS.

 

As for the cost: yes, it _is_ too high, but that doesn't matter, because eventually those slots will be on sale for anyone who feels okay with supporting this design.

[Aaralyna.3104]

And yet still no word on fixing the revenant bugs caused by these templates. Its a full gamble to play on revenant atm (skills resetting, weapons sometimes just change by themselves unasked and I didn't even change legendaries in my play coz it would screw up every position of skill)... I am starting to loose faith in this game as it affects basic gameplay and its taking ages to even acknowledge they are working on a fix and will be high priority.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> And yet still no word on fixing the revenant bugs caused by these templates.

 

I'm sure this will be taken care of with the upcoming patch.

[Nick.5276]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> > And yet still no word on fixing the revenant bugs caused by these templates.

>

> I'm sure this will be taken care of with the upcoming patch.

 

I'm sure a lot of people thought the feedback before release would have been listened to but nope. I'm sure a lot of people thought the build system would be as good if not better than arcdps but nope. I'm sure a lot of people thought the basic class abilities would be a-ok with the build system but nope. I'm sure a lot of people thought the cost would be reasonable but nope.

 

They've fluffed everything else are you willing to stand on that line and take the risk?

[Pifil.5193]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> In a game where one can play, earn gold, convert to gems and never have to spend any real money, we have complaints about extreme or excessive monetization?

 

Yes and they're quite valid. They carved the solution up into three pieces so that they could charge and charge and charge again.

 

People tend to forget that the gems they are buying were paid for with real money by _someone_. The only exception being the small amounts you get from some achievement rewards.

[ylinky.5064]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > @"Kravey.4563" said:

 

>

> The issue at hand is how much build storage and templates cost: prior to their release it was mentioned that it would be in line with bank tabs (i.e. 600 gems = 30 slots) and bag slots (i.e. 20 slots up to 32 slots for 400 gems).

>

Not even just that.

500Gem+300Gem = 800Gem = A character slot

I don't see any reason to buy those "loadout" instead of just getting 1 more character slot which will give me much much more benefit from every aspect.

 

[Cuddy.6247]

> @"susana.7814" said:

> > @"Rubi Bayer.8493" said:

> > Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in [last week's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099265/#Comment_1099265 "last week's post"), we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.

> >

> > We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.

> >

> > Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.

> >

> > This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.

> >

>

> This still doesn't address the over aggressive monetization models put in place.

 

I think the plan of action is to blatantly ignore it until everyone who's against the policy leaves. I mean, it's not like games like Clash of Clans or Age of Magic are seeing dying days with aggressive monetization. ANet wants in on that pie instead, obviously.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Nick.5276" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> > > And yet still no word on fixing the revenant bugs caused by these templates.

> >

> > I'm sure this will be taken care of with the upcoming patch.

>

> I'm sure a lot of people thought the feedback before release would have been listened to but nope. I'm sure a lot of people thought the build system would be as good if not better than arcdps but nope. I'm sure a lot of people thought the basic class abilities would be a-ok with the build system but nope. I'm sure a lot of people thought the cost would be reasonable but nope.

>

> They've fluffed everything else are you willing to stand on that line and take the risk?

 

You must have completely missed my extensive criticism of ANet's version of a templates system in this and other threads, or you wouldn't be asking me that question in such an agitated way. ;)

 

All I said is that I believe they will take care of the Rev skill issue sooner than most other issues as it directly hampers gameplay to a certain extent. So yes, I do believe this is one of the first things that will get fixed.

 

Could I be wrong about it? Of course, I am not the Oracle of Delphi after all.

[Aeolus.3615]

Utilities order getting resented.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"susana.7814" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > In a game where one can play, earn gold, convert to gems and never have to spend any real money, we have complaints about extreme or excessive monetization?

>

> Do you know how long it will take to farm 30k gems worth of gold? The complaints are justified and i think you know that.

>

 

Not relevant. The gem-gold exchange is not meant to completely circumvent all transactions. The fact that it can is already a problem within the system.

 

The build/equipment templates are meant as quality of life features which players who are interested in can, but do not have to purchase. You can enjoy the game without invesnting any money in additional features. If you decide to cheap out and spend 0 money on the game while still desiring the feature, you are already not the target audience and not a high value/priority customer.

 

Going forward from that: obviously quality of life features need to then be improved or adressed if they do not match up with what build tempaltes provide. That should be a top priotiry. This means bug fixing, reestablishing past functionality and improving on the system as good as possible.

 

 

**TL;DR**:

There is customers who are worth keeping happy, and customers who are worth keeping happy but with less priority. Bringing features in line with valuable customers desires/demands is a top priority. Every one else gets attention once the afformentioned group has been satisfied via subsidizing resources for non revenue generating player pools . Might sound harsh, but that's how the real world works.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> **TL;DR**:

> There is customers who are worth keeping happy, and customers who are worth keeping happy but with less priority.

TL:DR:

There are whales, and there are players who aren't.

 

[BadHealer.3608]

> @"Rubi Bayer.8493" said:

> We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.

Sorry, but are you sure that this function wont confuse a lot of players in the first place? Shortly going into WvW or PVP lobby will switch the build and slot? People may be confused when there weapon change and will switch it back, messing with their build and so on.

 

The problem is that your templates are loadout and every change will mess with it. So maybe you just gave us back the three loadouts and start giving us the free three template builds that you have been promised to us?

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > **TL;DR**:

> > There is customers who are worth keeping happy, and customers who are worth keeping happy but with less priority.

> TL:DR:

> There are whales, and there are players who aren't.

>

 

I wasn't talking about whales, but yes, those do allow quite a few players to play this game without any charge, even if I personally am not a fan of this type of exploitation.

 

I was more refering to casual customers who occasionally spend money on something they enjoy, and those who want everything for free and more.

[Virdo.1540]

> @"Rubi Bayer.8493" said:

> Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in [last week's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099265/#Comment_1099265 "last week's post"), we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.

>

> We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.

>

> Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.

>

> This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.

>

 

please give us wardrobe templates too :bleep_bloop: