What is the point of heavy/medium/light armor?

[SeikeNz.3526]

if everyone can have the same power? even if toughness do little because of the power creep why heavy armor classes can have more power than light armor classes?

[Crab Fear.1624]

Broken and abandoned philosophies about armor, health, risk, and reward.

 

I read or heard that the squeaky wheel gets greased.

[Ragnar.4257]

Are you seriously asking the question "why are classes different" ?

 

Do you think the game would be better if there was only 1 class, with everyone locked to the exact same weapon/utility skills, only the same traits allowed, only the same equipment/amulet/sigil?

 

Why do you think there are different options?

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> Are you seriously asking the question "why are classes different" ?

>

> Do you think the game would be better if there was only 1 class, with everyone locked to the exact same weapon/utility skills, only the same traits allowed, only the same equipment/amulet/sigil?

>

> Why do you think there are different options?

 

not sure if serious but if everyone has the same power why not give everyone the same toughness and just change the skin, if they want the philosophy of light armor being low defense they should give heavy armor classes lower power

[Highlie.7641]

Just play another game man, this one is no good now. and the playerbase will make sure it never get's better.

 

 

[PeerlessArch.6547]

LOL -- the difference in armor rating (which gives you toughness) is SO minute, it really doesn't even matter.

 

There should be no armor "class" in this game.

 

Heavy/Med/Light is just a dumb implementation for this game in its current state. I'll argue that even when GW2 first came out -- the difference in toughness given by armor weight did NOT matter one bit.

 

They wanted to get rid of the "holy trinity" for Tank/Heal/DPS, but still developed Light/Med/Heavy armors? Haha -- joke.

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"PeerlessArch.6547" said:

> LOL -- the difference in armor rating (which gives you toughness) is SO minute, it really doesn't even matter.

>

> There should be no armor "class" in this game.

>

> Heavy/Med/Light is just a dumb implementation for this game in its current state. I'll argue that even when GW2 first came out -- the difference in toughness given by armor weight did NOT matter one bit.

>

> They wanted to get rid of the "holy trinity" for Tank/Heal/DPS, but still developed Light/Med/Heavy armors? Haha -- joke.

 

i know right but i think the armor rating difference give like 10~15% damage reduction what is good enough

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> if everyone can have the same power? even if toughness do little because of the power creep why heavy armor classes can have more power than light armor classes?

 

That's a good question actually, and I don't think there's any definitive answer to it. To sell skins would be my first and only guess.

 

Personally, I don't mind it as is for 3 reasons.

1. Being the actual effect base armor rating has on the damage you take is beyond negligible.

2. Being that condition damage nullifies all 3 armor types.

3. Being that the tradeoff for having high armor/toughness is lower damage. Every amulet besides Demolishers trades DPS for sustain, and even then; you can see most Warriors and Revs are just as squishy as everything else because armor is an **additive** divider in damage, countered by power. There's always more power than toughness, particularly when taking Demolisher's ammy. On the other hand, Protection is 33% **multiplier** to your armor value, therefore spamming that boon is always more reliable and 2/3 of the heavy armor classes have little to no consistent ways to apply it. 3/3 if you play something like Core Guard, and FB shouldn't have the same damage as a support spec. [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage")

[Eddbopkins.2630]

To me the only point to different armor classes is to have some classes innately be better off then other classes. There is no rym or reason as to why all the classes have different armor values in PvP. At least to me.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> To me the only point to different armor classes is to have some classes innately be better off then other classes. There is no rym or reason as to why all the classes have different armor values in PvP. At least to me.

 

You don't think light classes have other advantages that heavy classes don't have?

 

You know, different strengths and weaknesses? Trade-offs?

 

To make it so there is some variety in the game? So that everything isn't boring and homogeneous?

 

You think heavy classes are just better than light in every single way?

 

???

 

Its not like light classes have dominated the meta at various points in the last 7 years. Noooooo. Because heavy classes are innately better. Right? That's why every single tournament has featured only heavy classes, literally nobody ever plays a light class. Not once, in 7 years.

 

The meta where literally everyone was playing 5x celestial Elementalist. That didn't happen. Because light classes are innately worse. Right?

 

There is literally nothing a Weaver or Mirage or Reaper has that can POSSIBLY overcome that god-mode 300 toughness difference. They might as well just log out.

 

....

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > @"PeerlessArch.6547" said:

> > LOL -- the difference in armor rating (which gives you toughness) is SO minute, it really doesn't even matter.

> >

> > There should be no armor "class" in this game.

> >

> > Heavy/Med/Light is just a dumb implementation for this game in its current state. I'll argue that even when GW2 first came out -- the difference in toughness given by armor weight did NOT matter one bit.

> >

> > They wanted to get rid of the "holy trinity" for Tank/Heal/DPS, but still developed Light/Med/Heavy armors? Haha -- joke.

>

> i know right but i think the armor rating difference give like 10~15% damage reduction what is good enough

 

- If we assume a maximum power from amulett: 1,200 (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Build)

- If we assume average weapon strength of 900 (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon_Strength)

- If we assume a weapon damage coefficient of 1.0

- If we use the given formula for power damage:

- > Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

- If we use the exotic defense values for each weight provided on https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor

 

The results are as follows against a target with base 1,000 toughness:

Light armor is hit for 549

Medium armor is hit for 509

Heavy armor is hit for 475

 

Which constitutes a damage difference of around 13% between light and heavy armor. That is only against power, maximum glasscanon versus classcanon and without taking into account any class abilities which might allow more offensive or defensive setups in stats.

[Hannelore.8153]

Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

 

I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

 

Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

[crepuscular.9047]

next to non existence, hence pretty much all going to offensive builds, it's the skills that keep survivability up, not the armor rating

it's not uncommon for get smacked with 25 invul within secs

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > Are you seriously asking the question "why are classes different" ?

> >

> > Do you think the game would be better if there was only 1 class, with everyone locked to the exact same weapon/utility skills, only the same traits allowed, only the same equipment/amulet/sigil?

> >

> > Why do you think there are different options?

>

> not sure if serious but if everyone has the same power why not give everyone the same toughness and just change the skin, if they want the philosophy of light armor being low defense they should give heavy armor classes lower power

 

Then you shall hear the cry of 10000 warrior mains worldwide...should sound very sweet

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Eh @"Cyninja.2954" got the explanation before I did.

 

I'll guess I'll just edit and say that:

 

Due to Protection buff, **Vitality > Toughness,** in 9/10 situations

[Dadnir.5038]

The point of armor class? Cosmetic.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

>

> I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

>

> Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

 

Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.

We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

 

Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

 

Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

 

 

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

> >

> > I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

> >

> > Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

>

> Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.

> We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

>

> Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

>

> Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

>

>

 

so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

[ZDragon.3046]

Fashion obviously

[RedShark.9548]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

> > >

> > > I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

> > >

> > > Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

> >

> > Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.

> > We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

> >

> > Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

> >

> > Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

> >

> >

>

> so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

 

Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.

Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > > Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

> > > >

> > > > I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

> > > >

> > > > Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

> > >

> > > Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.

> > > We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

> > >

> > > Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

> > >

> > > Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

>

> Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.

> Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

 

wvw? this is spvp forum, wvw is not even pvp it's just random skills flying everywhere, so people use staff so they can throw the random atks in area.

where staff ele is a thing in spvp? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny.

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > > > Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

> > > > >

> > > > > Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

> > > >

> > > > Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.

> > > > We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

> > > >

> > > > Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

> > > >

> > > > Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

> >

> > Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.

> > Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

>

> wvw? this is spvp forum

> where staff ele is a thing? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny

 

And one trick ponys are generally not meta and thus not viable, so my point stands, rifle is not viable.

 

Ive just checked metabattle, and there is a staff support build on the site, also scepter builds, like i said.

 

You ignored my scepter comment completely.

 

Btw no rifle metawarrior on there *thinking*

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > > > > Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.

> > > > > We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

> > >

> > > Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.

> > > Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

> >

> > wvw? this is spvp forum

> > where staff ele is a thing? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny

>

> And one trick ponys are generally not meta and thus not viable, so my point stands, rifle is not viable.

>

> Ive just checked metabattle, and there is a staff support build on the site, also scepter builds, like i said.

>

> You ignored my scepter comment completely.

>

> Btw no rifle metawarrior on there *thinking*

 

i ignored because scepter ele is a joke same as rifle warrior

[RedShark.9548]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > > > > > Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.

> > > > > > We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

> > > >

> > > > Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.

> > > > Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

> > >

> > > wvw? this is spvp forum

> > > where staff ele is a thing? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny

> >

> > And one trick ponys are generally not meta and thus not viable, so my point stands, rifle is not viable.

> >

> > Ive just checked metabattle, and there is a staff support build on the site, also scepter builds, like i said.

> >

> > You ignored my scepter comment completely.

> >

> > Btw no rifle metawarrior on there *thinking*

>

> i ignored because scepter ele is a joke same as rifle warrior

 

Ok, great argument, yikes, thank goodness ppl like you are not making the balance decisions

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > > > > > > Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.

> > > > > > > We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

> > > > >

> > > > > Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.

> > > > > Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

> > > >

> > > > wvw? this is spvp forum

> > > > where staff ele is a thing? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny

> > >

> > > And one trick ponys are generally not meta and thus not viable, so my point stands, rifle is not viable.

> > >

> > > Ive just checked metabattle, and there is a staff support build on the site, also scepter builds, like i said.

> > >

> > > You ignored my scepter comment completely.

> > >

> > > Btw no rifle metawarrior on there *thinking*

> >

> > i ignored because scepter ele is a joke same as rifle warrior

>

> Ok, great argument, yikes, thank goodness ppl like you are not making the balance decisions

 

what was your argument, metabattle? lmao