Never say something is too hard,

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > Charr in GW1 were essentially the flame legion of today, worshiping the titans who gave them power. Charr in GW2 are atheists, and thus lack the spirituality and drive to learn magic. They brag about their engineering and technology all of the time, and most of the Charr NPCs you meet in game are thieves, engineers, and warriors. Mesmers in Gw2 heavily emphasize beauty and deception, wherein most men are for strength and direct confrontation. Also, men would lack the multi-tasking skills to maintain multiple illusions of themselves. In game, most mesmer NPCs are women as well. Hell, they're also aristocracy, so think of that what you will.

>

> The one NPC I perceived to be obsessed more with beauty than any other NPC was Norgu a **male** Mesmer.

> He was also the only Mesmer Hero, as far as I remember.

> The two most spiritual NPCs presented in GW1, Mhenlo and Master Togo, also were male.

> So there is nothing that ties beauty or spiritualism more to women than to men.

>

> Atheism is no reason to lack affinity to magic. The magic doesn't come from any divine entity.

> If any race, it's only the humans that should lack magic use, as they were the only ones who needed divine help to use magic (which was already present).

>

> Also, don't forget that Rytlock during his times as a Warrior, was capable of understanding and performing an exceedingly complex magical ritual to cleanse (a portion of) the ghosts of Ascalon.

> And then there is the Charr in the personal story who was capable of replicating the Searing, without worshipping the titans.

 

I didn't say that spiritualism was attached to women. Yes, you can contort the lore in any way that you want to argue against a theoretical class restriction list I came up with on the fly. You are deliberately leaving out the most important part of the very same post you just quoted, just so you can nit-pick:

 

> These are not hard examples. I am not arguing this is the way it is. I am not arguing this is the way it should be. I am arguing that this is the way it would be if Anet decided to lock professions behind race and sex. Or, something similar, depending on how they felt each profession would be restricted.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > People still don't understand that was the whole point of the "play how you want" mantra, ArenaNet wanted people to be able to do any content with any character and any build and be successful at it, that was the philosophy, the execution in that was the failing.

> That wasn't the point of the "play how you want" thing at all.

> It comes from this [article](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/)

> And it was a statement about not making players jump through hoops in game modes they dont enjoy to achieve best in slot rewards. It was about offering the player choice in how rewards are earned. That if there are 4 activities for a reward, for example you only have to do two and can choose the two you like.

> You've misinterpreted and misrepresented this message pretty heavily.

> Why?

 

I should probably clarify, that was the _original_ intent behind the mantra, it somehow got changed between when they first thought of it and what it ended up being announced as...they should've never changed it and just left it as it was, which is the way I said it(I keep forgetting it was changed somewhere along the way),

[Dante.1508]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > Just adjust to the difficulty.

> > Unless you count 'not doing the difficult content' as adjusting to it, some people simply can't adjust to every difficulty.

> > Many people simply aren't good enough and don't have enough talent make up the missing expertise.

> >

>

> Usually you make up for the lack of talent with practice.

 

Some people can't, as you get older you will understand unless you are very lucky..

> @"kratan.4619" said:

> Odd how when it is in instanced content it is a "mechanic" to learn, and it is a good thing, but if it is in open world people call it a "gimmick" and that is a bad thing.

They are both Gimmicks and they are both bad.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > > Just adjust to the difficulty.

> > > Unless you count 'not doing the difficult content' as adjusting to it, some people simply can't adjust to every difficulty.

> > > Many people simply aren't good enough and don't have enough talent make up the missing expertise.

> > >

> >

> > Usually you make up for the lack of talent with practice.

>

> Some people can't, as you get older you will understand unless you are very lucky..

> > @"kratan.4619" said:

> > Odd how when it is in instanced content it is a "mechanic" to learn, and it is a good thing, but if it is in open world people call it a "gimmick" and that is a bad thing.

> They are both Gimmicks and they are both bad.

 

Im going to laugh if Zaelex is older than you.

 

But when it comes to age, ive noticed that its not the inability to do so, at least with me, its because i dont enjoy getting frustrated with content that even at my best i cant do, at least this games not like DS3.

[Dante.1508]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > The game doesnt have enough stuff to do in to get to the second job status not now, not back when w5 released, adding harder content isnt making a second job, adding silly grinds is.

> For some people, having to learn META builds and rotations to play content of higher difficulty is tedious enough to deserve the term 'second job'.

> That term is not exclusive to tedious grinds, even if grinding is the most common thing people think of, when reading the term.

>

Very very much so, Core Tyria was exactly perfect.. Sadly that direction is long gone.

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > > > Just adjust to the difficulty.

> > > > Unless you count 'not doing the difficult content' as adjusting to it, some people simply can't adjust to every difficulty.

> > > > Many people simply aren't good enough and don't have enough talent make up the missing expertise.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Usually you make up for the lack of talent with practice.

> >

> > Some people can't, as you get older you will understand unless you are very lucky..

> > > @"kratan.4619" said:

> > > Odd how when it is in instanced content it is a "mechanic" to learn, and it is a good thing, but if it is in open world people call it a "gimmick" and that is a bad thing.

> > They are both Gimmicks and they are both bad.

>

> Im going to laugh if Zaelex is older than you.

>

> But when it comes to age, ive noticed that its not the inability to do so, at least with me, its because i dont enjoy getting frustrated with content that even at my best i cant do, at least this games not like DS3.

 

I honestly don't really care, i'm only 46 and i'm already getting hand shakes and osteo arthritis my dad got both even early than i did, its probably hereditary. That said it makes twitch combat unplayable.. Which is a high amount of this game.. I play GW2 for the stories and the casual social element, but as the game has progressed its getting more and more out of my league, and i'm considering moving back to steam games where its a lot easier to play my gaming..

 

And in my opinion this game is very much becoming Dark Souls garbage.

 

Also the $200AU a week i spend on gems could be used on a lot better things i guess.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > People still don't understand that was the whole point of the "play how you want" mantra, ArenaNet wanted people to be able to do any content with any character and any build and be successful at it, that was the philosophy, the execution in that was the failing.

> > That wasn't the point of the "play how you want" thing at all.

> > It comes from this [article](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/)

> > And it was a statement about not making players jump through hoops in game modes they dont enjoy to achieve best in slot rewards. It was about offering the player choice in how rewards are earned. That if there are 4 activities for a reward, for example you only have to do two and can choose the two you like.

> > You've misinterpreted and misrepresented this message pretty heavily.

> > Why?

>

> I should probably clarify, that was the _original_ intent behind the mantra, it somehow got changed between when they first thought of it and what it ended up being announced as...they should've never changed it and just left it as it was, which is the way I said it(I keep forgetting it was changed somewhere along the way),

No developer quote backs up your interpretation. Not a single one.

 

[Dante.1508]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > People still don't understand that was the whole point of the "play how you want" mantra, ArenaNet wanted people to be able to do any content with any character and any build and be successful at it, that was the philosophy, the execution in that was the failing.

> > > That wasn't the point of the "play how you want" thing at all.

> > > It comes from this [article](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/)

> > > And it was a statement about not making players jump through hoops in game modes they dont enjoy to achieve best in slot rewards. It was about offering the player choice in how rewards are earned. That if there are 4 activities for a reward, for example you only have to do two and can choose the two you like.

> > > You've misinterpreted and misrepresented this message pretty heavily.

> > > Why?

> >

> > I should probably clarify, that was the _original_ intent behind the mantra, it somehow got changed between when they first thought of it and what it ended up being announced as...they should've never changed it and just left it as it was, which is the way I said it(I keep forgetting it was changed somewhere along the way),

> No developer quote backs up your interpretation. Not a single one.

>

 

Have you watched the release Videos and early direction GW2 started in, it very much tells that.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > People still don't understand that was the whole point of the "play how you want" mantra, ArenaNet wanted people to be able to do any content with any character and any build and be successful at it, that was the philosophy, the execution in that was the failing.

> > > > That wasn't the point of the "play how you want" thing at all.

> > > > It comes from this [article](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/)

> > > > And it was a statement about not making players jump through hoops in game modes they dont enjoy to achieve best in slot rewards. It was about offering the player choice in how rewards are earned. That if there are 4 activities for a reward, for example you only have to do two and can choose the two you like.

> > > > You've misinterpreted and misrepresented this message pretty heavily.

> > > > Why?

> > >

> > > I should probably clarify, that was the _original_ intent behind the mantra, it somehow got changed between when they first thought of it and what it ended up being announced as...they should've never changed it and just left it as it was, which is the way I said it(I keep forgetting it was changed somewhere along the way),

> > No developer quote backs up your interpretation. Not a single one.

> >

>

> Have you watched the release Videos and early direction GW2 started in, it very much tells that.

 

Watched them just today before responding to this thread. They do not say that at all.

[Dante.1508]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > > People still don't understand that was the whole point of the "play how you want" mantra, ArenaNet wanted people to be able to do any content with any character and any build and be successful at it, that was the philosophy, the execution in that was the failing.

> > > > > That wasn't the point of the "play how you want" thing at all.

> > > > > It comes from this [article](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/)

> > > > > And it was a statement about not making players jump through hoops in game modes they dont enjoy to achieve best in slot rewards. It was about offering the player choice in how rewards are earned. That if there are 4 activities for a reward, for example you only have to do two and can choose the two you like.

> > > > > You've misinterpreted and misrepresented this message pretty heavily.

> > > > > Why?

> > > >

> > > > I should probably clarify, that was the _original_ intent behind the mantra, it somehow got changed between when they first thought of it and what it ended up being announced as...they should've never changed it and just left it as it was, which is the way I said it(I keep forgetting it was changed somewhere along the way),

> > > No developer quote backs up your interpretation. Not a single one.

> > >

> >

> > Have you watched the release Videos and early direction GW2 started in, it very much tells that.

>

> Watched them just today before responding to this thread. It does not say that at all.

 

Then they've either been changed or removed since then because at release it very much said the above.

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

 

> To make playing in our open world worthwhile, we’ll make it rewarding enough for players to spend their time there across all levels. It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

 

Somewhere along the lines this got forgotten, and i believe it was when Fractals was added..

 

Here is a very good source and as you can see very much a lot has been removed.

 

So yes their original direction has very much been deleted.. The game is a pale shadow of what it was at release.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > Just adjust to the difficulty.

> > Unless you count 'not doing the difficult content' as adjusting to it, some people simply can't adjust to every difficulty.

> > Many people simply aren't good enough and don't have enough talent make up the missing expertise.

> >

>

> Usually you make up for the lack of talent with practice.

But that turns what was supposed to be an entertainment into work. Not everyone finds hard work to be entertaining. Especially not after they've already had too much of it during the day.

 

> @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > Noone says anything about catering towards the lower end players.

> > It's the average skill level that should be cared for most.

>

> The 'skill level' of the average gw2 player is abysmally low. Go look at the average skill of an FF, WoW, SWTOR, Wildstar (when it was alive), PSO2, BDO, ESO and other MMOs. Now compare them to gw2. The gap is so incredibly large it is almost a -shock- to most players that try and play this game. Our high-tier content would be average content in any other MMO.

That's not a result of skill difference between the players of those games. That's a direct result of the GW2 combat/skill system which multiplies even small skill differences between players. Simply put, the same skill difference in FF XIV will have a much smaller impact on the effectiveness of the player than it would have in GW2. That's, in fact, one of the core issues that lie behind most of the problems tied to GW2 difficulty levels. Unfortunately, that's not an issue that would be easy to fix (or even possible to fix at this point in time).

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> Atheism is no reason to lack affinity to magic. The magic doesn't come from any divine entity.

In GW1, it actually _did_. That got retconned in gw2, though.

 

> If any race, it's only the humans that should lack magic use, as they were the only ones who needed divine help to use magic (which was already present).

You might be misremembering things. Originally, the main reason why humans defeated charr was because humans could wield (divinely bestowed) magic, and charr couldn't. Only when charr made contact with titans and received magic from them (or, to be more precise, they, via Titans, received magic from Abaddon - one of the _human_ gods) that they managed to revert the situation.

Although, as i said, that got retconned in GW2, because Anet wanted to diminish importance of the human gods in the setting.

[Klowdy.3126]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > Just adjust to the difficulty.

> > Unless you count 'not doing the difficult content' as adjusting to it, some people simply can't adjust to every difficulty.

> > Many people simply aren't good enough and don't have enough talent make up the missing expertise.

> >

>

> Its ok that some content is too hard. Gives you an option to train and get better which keeps the game intresting.

> Or like you said, players can just skip the content that they dont enjoy.

 

People would quit, and slowly, GW2 would dry up, just like Wildstar.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Klowdy.3126" said:

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > > Just adjust to the difficulty.

> > > Unless you count 'not doing the difficult content' as adjusting to it, some people simply can't adjust to every difficulty.

> > > Many people simply aren't good enough and don't have enough talent make up the missing expertise.

> > >

> >

> > Its ok that some content is too hard. Gives you an option to train and get better which keeps the game intresting.

> > Or like you said, players can just skip the content that they dont enjoy.

>

> People would quit, and slowly, GW2 would dry up, just like Wildstar.

 

Why would ppl quit because of this? We already had content that was too hard for some players since launch, why is it suddenly a proplem that kills the game if we get content like that every now and then?

 

How does it hurt any1 if for example we get a new raid wing? Thats content for those who like it and those who dont like it can just ignore it.

If pvp or wvw gets something nice, im not saying that game is dying even tho i dont like those gamemodes. I would just be happy for those who do play pvp or wvw.

[Shikaru.7618]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Klowdy.3126" said:

> > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > > > Just adjust to the difficulty.

> > > > Unless you count 'not doing the difficult content' as adjusting to it, some people simply can't adjust to every difficulty.

> > > > Many people simply aren't good enough and don't have enough talent make up the missing expertise.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Its ok that some content is too hard. Gives you an option to train and get better which keeps the game intresting.

> > > Or like you said, players can just skip the content that they dont enjoy.

> >

> > People would quit, and slowly, GW2 would dry up, just like Wildstar.

>

> Why would ppl quit because of this? We already had content that was too hard for some players since launch, why is it suddenly a proplem that kills the game if we get content like that every now and then?

>

> How does it hurt any1 if for example we get a new raid wing? Thats content for those who like it and those who dont like it can just ignore it.

> If pvp or wvw gets something nice, im not saying that game is dying even tho i dont like those gamemodes. I would just be happy for those who do play pvp or wvw.

 

2 issues. It creates the haves and the have nots. Ie people that can kill bosses and people that cant. The people that cant dont like that theres something unobtainable.

 

They perceive that because this content exists, the content that they play is also going to be influenced by raid difficulty because now story bosses have "mechanics" and that's for raids only.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Shikaru.7618" said:

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"Klowdy.3126" said:

> > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > > > > Just adjust to the difficulty.

> > > > > Unless you count 'not doing the difficult content' as adjusting to it, some people simply can't adjust to every difficulty.

> > > > > Many people simply aren't good enough and don't have enough talent make up the missing expertise.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Its ok that some content is too hard. Gives you an option to train and get better which keeps the game intresting.

> > > > Or like you said, players can just skip the content that they dont enjoy.

> > >

> > > People would quit, and slowly, GW2 would dry up, just like Wildstar.

> >

> > Why would ppl quit because of this? We already had content that was too hard for some players since launch, why is it suddenly a proplem that kills the game if we get content like that every now and then?

> >

> > How does it hurt any1 if for example we get a new raid wing? Thats content for those who like it and those who dont like it can just ignore it.

> > If pvp or wvw gets something nice, im not saying that game is dying even tho i dont like those gamemodes. I would just be happy for those who do play pvp or wvw.

>

> 2 issues. It creates the haves and the have nots. Ie people that can kill bosses and people that cant. The people that cant dont like that theres something unobtainable.

>

> They perceive that because this content exists, the content that they play is also going to be influenced by raid difficulty because now story bosses have "mechanics" and that's for raids only.

 

Mechanics have been a thing since start of the game, we have seen those in dungeons, open world and in story.

 

There will be always players who can do something and players who cant. Some players will never be able to play competive modes like wvw and pvp because of their player vs player nature.

 

Some players will never play any kind of instanced group content because of their social anxiety.

 

There is and there will always be something unobtainable for some ppl in most games, just like in real life.

 

You cant never balance the game for only minority, no matter is it best or worst minority. Game is mostly balanced for avg majority and thats the best thing for every1.

 

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > Atheism is no reason to lack affinity to magic. The magic doesn't come from any divine entity.

> In GW1, it actually _did_. That got retconned in gw2, though.

>

> > If any race, it's only the humans that should lack magic use, as they were the only ones who needed divine help to use magic (which was already present).

> You might be misremembering things. Originally, the main reason why humans defeated charr was because humans could wield (divinely bestowed) magic, and charr couldn't. Only when charr made contact with titans and received magic from them (or, to be more precise, they, via Titans, received magic from Abaddon - one of the _human_ gods) that they managed to revert the situation.

> Although, as i said, that got retconned in GW2, because Anet wanted to diminish importance of the human gods in the setting.

 

If it got "retconned" anywhere. It'd be GW1.

Remember that Atheist Asura Elementalist hero? Vekk or what his name was.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> Why would ppl quit because of this? We already had content that was too hard for some players since launch, why is it suddenly a proplem that kills the game if we get content like that every now and then?

>

> How does it hurt any1 if for example we get a new raid wing? Thats content for those who like it and those who dont like it can just ignore it.

> If pvp or wvw gets something nice, im not saying that game is dying even tho i dont like those gamemodes. I would just be happy for those who do play pvp or wvw.

On its own, you're right, just adding a new raid wing would not hurt anyone. Too bad the impact of adding raids on the game was not limited to just adding a new raid wing every now and then.

 

If you want something like that to work the way you say it works, it needs to be a true side content. One option of many, not the one option _above_ all else. It may offer unique skins, but they cannot be any more "special" than skins from other content. And it certainly shouldn't lock out whole categories of rewards. In addition, it cannot affect the development of other content types. Fractals before Raids and after Raids are two different things, and shift in design goals was easy to see for anyone that was playing them throughout that time. The raiders, would be raiders and people that are left doing fractals now probably liked that change - but there were many people that did _not_ (and stopped playing fractals as a result). The fact that dungeons were officially and very loudly abandoned at the same time definitely didn't help - it meant that there wasn't any "current" instanced group content in the game that wasn't tied to raids in some way.

 

In fact, mere mentioning aloud that fractals were supposed to be a "staircase to raids" did a lot of harm to the game. Most people playing this game weren't interested in raids and all they represented at all - in fact, many arrived in GW2 specifically to _avoid_ playing a game with raids. Hearing about raids even when playing a content not connected with them didn't make them happy - it made them think the game was going in the direction they didn't want it to go. Hearing constant reminders about how now raids were supposed to be **the** endgame sent a clear message, that raids were not meant to be optional. They were meant to be something everyone would be eventually pushed into doing. That was a _very_ bad message to send.

 

And, of course, unsurprisingly, it turned out that raids did _not_ end up as popular as Anet (and some players) thought they might be, and as a result they got abandoned. In the end, everyone lost (yes, even the people that are there for the "1 1 1" type of content - they might just don't know it yet).

[Henry.5713]

Dungeons have been there from the start. Content which was specifically designed to be rather challenging and thus not for everyone. Instanced and not fully inclusive content which rewarded you with great gear and unique and nice looking skins not avaible anywhere else. They even advertised dungeons openly to bring in those more hardcore players. Remember reading articles from testers struggling with the exploreable paths of AC after the devs made sure to show them how hard the game can be for those looking for such content.

Kinda sounds like anything that supposedly started with raids only. Not to mention that dungeons were supposed to be a much larger part of an overall far smaller game compared to the tiny amount of content raids provide you with nowadays when you look at the vast amount of casual content avaible to everyone these days.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > > > People still don't understand that was the whole point of the "play how you want" mantra, ArenaNet wanted people to be able to do any content with any character and any build and be successful at it, that was the philosophy, the execution in that was the failing.

> > > > > > That wasn't the point of the "play how you want" thing at all.

> > > > > > It comes from this [article](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/)

> > > > > > And it was a statement about not making players jump through hoops in game modes they dont enjoy to achieve best in slot rewards. It was about offering the player choice in how rewards are earned. That if there are 4 activities for a reward, for example you only have to do two and can choose the two you like.

> > > > > > You've misinterpreted and misrepresented this message pretty heavily.

> > > > > > Why?

> > > > >

> > > > > I should probably clarify, that was the _original_ intent behind the mantra, it somehow got changed between when they first thought of it and what it ended up being announced as...they should've never changed it and just left it as it was, which is the way I said it(I keep forgetting it was changed somewhere along the way),

> > > > No developer quote backs up your interpretation. Not a single one.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Have you watched the release Videos and early direction GW2 started in, it very much tells that.

> >

> > Watched them just today before responding to this thread. It does not say that at all.

>

> Then they've either been changed or removed since then because at release it very much said the above.

>

> https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

>

> > To make playing in our open world worthwhile, we’ll make it rewarding enough for players to spend their time there across all levels. It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

>

> Somewhere along the lines this got forgotten, and i believe it was when Fractals was added..

>

> Here is a very good source and as you can see very much a lot has been removed.

>

>

> So yes their original direction has very much been deleted.. The game is a pale shadow of what it was at release.

 

All these quotes back up the assertion that this was about rewards and activities. Not about bringing whatever build you wanted in whatever armor and being effective.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > Atheism is no reason to lack affinity to magic. The magic doesn't come from any divine entity.

> > In GW1, it actually _did_. That got retconned in gw2, though.

> >

> > > If any race, it's only the humans that should lack magic use, as they were the only ones who needed divine help to use magic (which was already present).

> > You might be misremembering things. Originally, the main reason why humans defeated charr was because humans could wield (divinely bestowed) magic, and charr couldn't. Only when charr made contact with titans and received magic from them (or, to be more precise, they, via Titans, received magic from Abaddon - one of the _human_ gods) that they managed to revert the situation.

> > Although, as i said, that got retconned in GW2, because Anet wanted to diminish importance of the human gods in the setting.

>

> If it got "retconned" anywhere. It'd be GW1.

> Remember that Atheist Asura Elementalist hero? Vekk or what his name was.

It's a bit more complicated. It's not like you cannot do magic without any divine entity. It's that the Magic that the gw1 classes use come from a divine entity (or, more precisely, is _given_ to human race as a result of an act of a divine entity), and it is (in lore) supposed to be something on completely different scale than magic of other races. Grawl magic, for example, does exist, and is somehow drawn from their totem worship (which, by the way, in lore was clearly mentioned as "absurd" and something that should not work this way, as magic in Tyria is _not_ generated by worship. It just somehow works this way for Grawl). Notice though, that their magic is supposed to be way weaker than human magic.

In such a way, other races can have access to other forms of magic as well. Asura draw energy from the leylines, and use it to empower their machinery. If you want to look how asuran "magic" _really_ should have looked, pay attention to their PvE-only skills that got introduced in EotN. Notice also, that most of the power for Asura technology (including the power for the whole Asura Gate system) came from "tapping" Primordius.

Another example is the Ritualist magic of Cantha, which does come from another source (and thus doesn't fit the usual "six domains" magical system we usually see)

 

Vekk, thus, should not have been an elementalist - he should have been an artificer. It's just that Anet didn't want to create a separate class and subsystem just for that one NPC. In the end, there's a clear disconnect between lore and mechanics - As devs said, technically magic should not have been as uniform across all races. Only Humans, Flame legion, and Forgotten should have had access to it (and Flame Legion only between first meeting th titans up to finale of Nightfall). It's just that it was easier to have everyone use the same system, instead of developing separate skills for each race.

 

By the way, being "atheist" has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not worship-based. Every single human was able to wield god-given magic, even if some happened to be raised in such a way they were unaware gods even exist. Notice also, that flame legion shamans in lore did lose magic once titans (and Abaddon) were defeated, and had to turn to Destroyers to regain it. It is unclear where the current charr are drawing their magic from, but i suppose they are utilizing the mighty powers of the Retcon (well, Flame Legion could possibly still draw upon destroyers, but that would have some... interesting - and probably not intended - consequences for the current storyline).

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> All these quotes back up the assertion that this was about rewards and activities. Not about bringing whatever build you wanted in whatever armor and being effective.

It's too bad that most of the dev communication from that time is gone, as it happened in multitude of posts split between several forums and webpages that no longer exist (and haven't existed for a very long time). I do remember, though one example that was given about how to prepare for difficult content.

 

They did mention that some of the "difficult" content (dungeon exploration paths) might require you to adjust your playing style within the prty to fit the group (and specific dungeon) better. They did also say, though, that it was just as easy as adjusting some skills and traits on the class you are already playing on, as every class is made to be equally versatile. The specific example given was of a party of _five thieves_.

 

No mention of gear changing for the role/content was ever made - the gear was supposed to fit your personal style, and for the actual adjustments, skills and traits should have been enough. With the class itself being mostly irrelevant for this, seeing as any class was supposed to be able to fit any required role.

 

Not that the actual game ever supported this, though.

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> Very very much so, Core Tyria was exactly perfect.. Sadly that direction is long gone.

 

The "direction" of Core Tyria was gone a couple of months after release when the developers, and the players, got better at playing this game and found out that what was seen as difficult, in reality was just lack of experience. Since the game launched we've had a bazillion posts about how difficult certain aspects of it are and in most cases Arenanet did nothing because they expected the players to get better to overcome those difficulties, and they actually did or simply ignored those parts of the content. In other cases they did make some alterations, mostly regarding mob density.

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> No mention of gear changing for the role/content was ever made

 

Probably because those posts were made -before- they added attributes to gear, or at the very least before gear stats became so complex as they are today. And definitely before the beta weekend event where they released their first dungeon, Ascalonian Catacombs and all the discussion that caused.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Shikaru.7618" said:

> > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > @"Klowdy.3126" said:

> > > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > > > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > > > > > Just adjust to the difficulty.

> > > > > > Unless you count 'not doing the difficult content' as adjusting to it, some people simply can't adjust to every difficulty.

> > > > > > Many people simply aren't good enough and don't have enough talent make up the missing expertise.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Its ok that some content is too hard. Gives you an option to train and get better which keeps the game intresting.

> > > > > Or like you said, players can just skip the content that they dont enjoy.

> > > >

> > > > People would quit, and slowly, GW2 would dry up, just like Wildstar.

> > >

> > > Why would ppl quit because of this? We already had content that was too hard for some players since launch, why is it suddenly a proplem that kills the game if we get content like that every now and then?

> > >

> > > How does it hurt any1 if for example we get a new raid wing? Thats content for those who like it and those who dont like it can just ignore it.

> > > If pvp or wvw gets something nice, im not saying that game is dying even tho i dont like those gamemodes. I would just be happy for those who do play pvp or wvw.

> >

> > 2 issues. It creates the haves and the have nots. Ie people that can kill bosses and people that cant. The people that cant dont like that theres something unobtainable.

> >

> > They perceive that because this content exists, the content that they play is also going to be influenced by raid difficulty because now story bosses have "mechanics" and that's for raids only.

>

> Mechanics have been a thing since start of the game, we have seen those in dungeons, open world and in story.

>

> There will be always players who can do something and players who cant. Some players will never be able to play competive modes like wvw and pvp because of their player vs player nature.

>

> Some players will never play any kind of instanced group content because of their social anxiety.

>

> There is and there will always be something unobtainable for some ppl in most games, just like in real life.

>

> You cant never balance the game for only minority, no matter is it best or worst minority. Game is mostly balanced for avg majority and thats the best thing for every1.

>

 

if it was balanced for the average players, wouldnt they have stayed here? no, since launch they have only made END GAME CONTENT

and it was all ABANDONDED again...would they do that, if it was making money for the game?

strikes are going to fail too, the average player isnt interested in that kind of content

even the mighty wow only had roughly 5% ever reach MAX LEVEL

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

 

> strikes are going to fail too, the average player isnt interested in that kind of content

I don't know about strikes failing, but I do know that the small group of casual with whom I play aren't interested in them at all.

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > No mention of gear changing for the role/content was ever made

>

> Probably because those posts were made -before- they added attributes to gear, or at the very least before gear stats became so complex as they are today. And definitely before the beta weekend event where they released their first dungeon, Ascalonian Catacombs and all the discussion that caused.

That was very close to the dungeon reveal the've had (and from what i remember, it was part of that dungeon reveal talks). It had to be quite close to that beta, because part of that talks included mentioning running the dungeon internally (with the beforementioned 5 thieves party, among other things). The stat system already existed then (even if it was going through small changes and adjustments, when they were moving stats and their effects around)

 

Notice also, that even _after_ the things you mentioned, they never actually ever spoke anything different. Not until raids, anyway.

 

I did acknowledge, that the game never actually lived up to the ideas presented then, but it sheds some light on what they were originally thinking when they were talking about "this game's equivalent of raids" and "for the most dedicated of players".

 

@"battledrone.8315"

Yes, the game should definitely have been balanced about the average player... but that's where the whole game design has bitten them in the behind. You remember when they mentioned recently about how big the difference in dps can be in this game? They weren't comparing the top with the bottom. They were comparing the top with the _average_. I just don't see how this kind of difference can be balanced around without making several difficulty tiers, that would be so different from each other you might as well do different games. At least not unless the very reasons behind such difference could be removed (but that in this game would require either a rewrite of the whole stat/skill/trait/combat system, or a massive trivialization of many of its mechanics). I am afraid we're years too late for that.