Dixie Cougar.2415 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 There are unfulfilled stat combinations that many full service supports (those that are dedicated to boons and healing) might benefit from. Main healing power or concentration, with the other as an off stat, and vitality as the third stat. Existing stat combinations with both healing power and concentration work, but aren't ideal. Harrier is main power, which is of no significant benefit to dedicated healers and pushes the support stats down into the secondary slots. Giver's suffers from the same issue while also affecting aggro in some fights (fine if you're the tank, but otherwise problematic). Minstrel is more flexible than giver's but still pumps toughness a lot. Plaguedoctor is nice as a building block for hybrids but doesn't give enough conc/healing power for dedicated supports. Can you make do somehow with what's available? Certainly, and I have done so for 3 years of raids, but I would immediately switch over to Con+Heals/Vit or Heals+Conc/Vit if either were available. Those are the only three stats that I want as a pure support, so it would be nice to see them all available in the same package. Like it or not, role specialization is here to stay in endgame content and it would be lovely if support mains got a proper stat combination for their jobs--something that isn't main toughness or a DPS stat. (Purists can argue that vit is "wasted" but the dps increase for healers from unfocused dps stats is trivial and toughness produces the aforementioned aggro problems. So outside of speedrunning, vit seems like the least useless of the three for a pure healer. More options in this case to suit different purposes would be better.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehdras.1489 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 this. a thousand times this. having a stat combo that is pure support/healing would be amazing. Magi's could be considered to be however it doesn't include Concentration which is necessary for druids, might tempests, healbrands, boon thieves, and any other support class that gives boons. I run minstrel's now because it has the best overall usage of stats but then that puts me in the position of being tank as well because many classes that are meant to tank are using other stat combos that don't give them enough toughness to go higher than mine. I would really love to be able to join raids and maximize my efficiency as a healer with a healing primary stat and still have vitality and concentration WITHOUT it being necessary to maximize toughness as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKitty.6120 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 They probably won't do that as it'd totally kill a bunch of other stat combos (harrier's, giver's, minstrel's, magi's, cleric's etc...). CondiHPconcexp would be another similar stat combo that'd be uberstrong if we had it. And ofc Powerhpfero would be nice for powerhealreaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painbow.6059 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Introduce a new stat named "Altruism" which is purely outgoing healing :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Every stat combination consist at least 3 diffrent stats. What else, outside of conc and healing power, do u consider as support stats? Gw2 is all about maximising party dps, so by Going vitality u basicly kinda leech, same for toughness. Best u can do to support ur Group is to deal any dmg. Adding stats like power prec fero, healing power MAY shift meta anyhow (didnt do any theorycrafying, just guessing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannelore.8153 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 > @"Safandula.8723" said: > Every stat combination consist at least 3 diffrent stats. What else, outside of conc and healing power, do u consider as support stats? Gw2 is all about maximising party dps, so by Going vitality u basicly kinda leech, same for toughness. That's for open-world PvE and dungeons. Raids and T4 fractals use dedicated, non-DPSing healers, often in Magi gear. And WvW does exist, but who cares about that. :< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > > @"Safandula.8723" said: > > Every stat combination consist at least 3 diffrent stats. What else, outside of conc and healing power, do u consider as support stats? Gw2 is all about maximising party dps, so by Going vitality u basicly kinda leech, same for toughness. > That's for open-world PvE and dungeons. Raids and T4 fractals use dedicated, non-DPSing healers, often in Magi gear. > > And WvW does exist, but who cares about that. :< > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > > @"Safandula.8723" said: > > Every stat combination consist at least 3 diffrent stats. What else, outside of conc and healing power, do u consider as support stats? Gw2 is all about maximising party dps, so by Going vitality u basicly kinda leech, same for toughness. > That's for open-world PvE and dungeons. Raids and T4 fractals use dedicated, non-DPSing healers, often in Magi gear. > > And WvW does exist, but who cares about that. :< sry didnt consider open world to much but imo, its easy enough to go harrier, u dont need much def stats. wvw actually has memestrel ( oh god how much i wish it disappear) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > > @"Safandula.8723" said: > > Every stat combination consist at least 3 diffrent stats. What else, outside of conc and healing power, do u consider as support stats? Gw2 is all about maximising party dps, so by Going vitality u basicly kinda leech, same for toughness. > That's for open-world PvE and dungeons. Raids and T4 fractals use dedicated, non-DPSing healers, often in Magi gear. > > And WvW does exist, but who cares about that. :< In raids healers dont use magis, also healer dps matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannelore.8153 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Minstrel is an extremely inefficient support combination, it wastes alot of points in defense (mainly Toughness), and doesn't even have max Healing Power and Concentration is only a secondary stat on it, the only set where its main being Diviner's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > Stop replying unless you know what you're talking about. I'm not in the mood today. You DON'T go full Harrier's because there's other ways to get boon duration, and Magi's is the only set with max Healing Power that doesn't draw aggro. > > Minstrel is an extremely inefficient support combination distribution, it wastes alot of points in defense (mainly Toughness), and doesn't even have max Healing Power and Concentration is only a secondary stat on it (the only set where its main being Diviner's). > > Replying to threads with misinformation just because you want to be right is not helpful. Its like you didn't even read OP's post. Looks harriers to me https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/druid/heal/ Now stop this nonsense when it comes to raiding. Every meta healer use full harriers or harriers with 1-2 magis pieces. And yes, group dps matters which means that support classes dps matters aswell, thats why condi druid saw use in encounters that has less preasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metasynaptic.1093 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Appeals to higher authority aside, harriers is an awful support stat. Primary power is trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > > Stop replying unless you know what you're talking about. I'm not in the mood today. You DON'T go full Harrier's because there's other ways to get boon duration, and Magi's is the only set with max Healing Power that doesn't draw aggro. > > > > Minstrel is an extremely inefficient support combination distribution, it wastes alot of points in defense (mainly Toughness), and doesn't even have max Healing Power and Concentration is only a secondary stat on it (the only set where its main being Diviner's). > > > > Replying to threads with misinformation just because you want to be right is not helpful. Its like you didn't even read OP's post. > > Looks harriers to me https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/druid/heal/ > Now stop this nonsense when it comes to raiding. Every meta healer use full harriers or harriers with 1-2 magis pieces. And yes, group dps matters which means that support classes dps matters aswell, thats why condi druid saw use in encounters that has less preasure. Snow Crows clearly didn't consult Hannelore.8153 when they made those guides then. I guess they don't know what they are talking about. I wonder if Hannelore is in the mood today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrForz.1953 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I'm pretty sure these "inefficient" stat combinations were made on purpose to avoid full blown heal/boon bot builds that would do nothing else but that. There's potentially unhealthy stuff that could stem from a full support tank stat set in all game modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > > @"Safandula.8723" said: > > Every stat combination consist at least 3 diffrent stats. What else, outside of conc and healing power, do u consider as support stats? Gw2 is all about maximising party dps, so by Going vitality u basicly kinda leech, same for toughness. > That's for open-world PvE and dungeons. Raids and T4 fractals use dedicated, non-DPSing healers, often in Magi gear. > > And WvW does exist, but who cares about that. :< No raid uses non dpsing healers. Sure. You can go only healing and boons. You can go minstrel for chrono tank with 100% bd. Yet experianced chronos tank with 1251/1005 toughness and less bd to maximise dps. Healers do the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Cougar.2415 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 I've been happily ignoring my dps as a minstrel druid for almost 3 years now. I've been in multiple statics and pug groups and in over 2,000 kills not one person has paid any attention to my personal dps. I've also yet to run into a single condi druid, except one that got kicked from a group because he wasn't providing might/heals. I recognize that my experience IS NOT fully representative of all raiders, but neither is that of speedrunners--most groups I've seen don't run those kinds of hyperaggressive comps, they have a proper tank and specialized healers. The only support that would about their dps is the firebrigade/offchrono/etc. Everyone would be completely free to keep using whatever existing stats they please if new ones get introduced. I would like the option to take a pure support stat because ignoring my dps and minmaxing for heals/boons has worked perfectly for me for raids and t4s. If it would break spvp, don't add it to spvp. Wvw I'm not sure of, but I would hazard a guess that minstrel could still be competitive with a 3-stat support combo there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katary.7096 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I'd say a pure support combination would boost concentration, healing power and expertise, not sure about the major though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalem.8921 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 > @"Dixie Cougar.2415" Minstrel isn't full support though. A lot of wasted stats on toughness + vit. T4 fractals is the essence of maximising support dps. Thats how you get < 3 sec skorvald phases and 30min full clears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Currently healers with Harrier's and such are already way overhealing, so might as well take that extra power and contribute some damage. The only way to die in Raids with a competent support already is just terrible positioning or severely messing up mechanics, which won't change if you can outheal the usual damage by a magnitude of 5-20 instead of 3-8. For reference, some Raid Bosses like Samarog have an average pressure of just ~500 damage per second to the party. Some Healers currently can already heal for about 6000 Health per second with Harrier. More heals won't save more people in 99% of cases. What kills people is being off stack and failing mechanics, as healers already carry incredibly hard, making full support stat sets irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKitty.6120 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 If you guys really wanted optimized stat set for support, it'd be HP+Condi/conc+exp or Power/hp+fero. Full heals and condi/power dps in same stat set but that'd be way too broken. And when it comes to maximizing dps as support, it's pretty much go diviner's/viper's with suitable runes or go harrier's / magi's / minstrel's. Especially when raiding, you're usually better off playing either dps-esque or heals as trait- and skillwise good healing and dps options are usually mutually exclusive and there's only a couple classes with well-functioning hybrid builds. Trying to greed dps with harrier's is kinda bad idea 'cause it lacks prec and fero to make it hit more than a wet cloth and quite often healer seriously greeding personal dps to add 1-2% to squad's total dps is more squad dps lost to lower scholar and boon uptimes. And if you use staff as healer even part-time, greeding is pretty much non-sense since staff skills in healing setup are the lowest damage you can do in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opopanax.1803 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 It doesnt make sense to me that they have: Minstrel- Tough/HP > Conc/Vit Givers- Tough > HP/Conc Why have toughness as a primary for healer/support for PVE? It is way more likely for you to pull aggro with a full set. It makes very little sense from the way that they have assigned threat. My only conclusion is that this is for PVP/WVW. So I think rolling out a new stat set would be nice. And as far as Snowcrows go: I get it, Harriers is great. But not all healers like running at ~13K HP. It dont think it would hurt anything, so why not give something like a modified Menders to pve [that has concentration instead of precision]? Power/HP > Conc/Vit would be good for PVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borgs.6103 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Maybe they will add one. After all, they promised *eXpANsIOn leVEL cOnTeNT*, and new stat combos have always come with expansions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 already done https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ventari%27s_Nomad_Insignia main Toughness minor Vitality minor Healing Power conc IF need it - from runes/sigils and food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 > @"LadyKitty.6120" said: > They probably won't do that as it'd totally kill a bunch of other stat combos (harrier's, giver's, minstrel's, magi's, cleric's etc...). CondiHPconcexp would be another similar stat combo that'd be uberstrong if we had it. And ofc Powerhpfero would be nice for powerhealreaper. there's already "dead stats" ..so what is more? and ir probably wont..as pure support isn't needed in good team. OP, I also want a healing concentration and vitality stat combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 > @"lare.5129" said: > already done > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ventari%27s_Nomad_Insignia > main Toughness > minor Vitality > minor Healing Power > conc IF need it - from runes/sigils and food. we want a support without toughness...as toughness means having to tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 > @"Taygus.4571" said: > we want a support without toughness...as toughness means having to tank. in gw2 no tanks as all. There is only "kiters", and they not always worry about toughness. So we need toughness for heals as primary stat, and we have it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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