Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I've always wondered. cuz reasons I guess eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Disclaimer: Not speaking to the current strength or uptime numbers of Photon Forge Just important to note that Photon Forge has no cooldown. What you are calling a cooldown on Photon Forge is actually the cooldown on being an Engineer again. If you made this cooldown 15s, a Holosmith could be in Forge for the exact same amount as they are now, assuming they don't mismanage resources and overheat. The uptime of Photon Forge is completely affected by the Heat resource. Not at all affected by the cooldown on returning to the Holosmith's base form. That's why it's not 10 seconds - because it literally doesn't limit how much they can spam Photon Forge skills. Hope that answers your question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > I've always wondered. cuz reasons I guess eh. Design wise it was supposed to be gated by heat levels, not cooldown. changing it to 10s from 6s would just propably make it more frustrating to use without making any real change to holo. Dont fix whats not broken eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 the gate intended to it was "self damage"(heat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > snips yeah, right. this makes sense but its still strange that it doesn't have a normal cd like berserker, reaper, or druid. its the incongruency that gets me I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 @"Stand The Wall.6987" fun fact: going from full heat to none takes 11 seconds with 3 dodges to vent heat. its also the only engi kit with a cooldown, a bugged one to boot, going into red add's another second to the cd also warrior got trait that reduces wep swap to 5 seconds. holo is fine, move on edit: not to mention the heat mechanic which naturally gates the time u can spend in forge, and missplay will most likely end in death. if u add 10 sec cd it will as someone said, makes the whole class frustrating to play, effectively nerfing it more out of meta than it already is. more pressing classes needs a look than forge disengage cd increase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > snips > > yeah, right. this makes sense but its still strange that it doesn't have a normal cd like berserker, reaper, or druid. its the incongruency that gets me I think. A major difference between forge mode and those 3 espec modes is that heat generation is relatively controlled and consistent where as the other 3 have the potential to gain extremely high amounts of their resources in a very short amount of time. With necro shroud when there are tons of mobs or wvw zerglings dying around you they can get full life force in like 2 seconds and maintain an insane shroud uptime. Berserker cleaving 3+ targets will pretty much instantly fill adrenaline, and druid healing a whole raid group with aoe perma regen and staff skills gives insanely fast astral force generation. With heat, the generation is pretty consistent in all situations only exception is if the holo is being stunlocked for extended periods of time, but that almost never happens. So with the other 3 the cd is needed to keep situations where extremely high resource generation is possible in check which isn't an issue with holo heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos.7460 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 LOL reenant is affected by energy AND COOLDOWNS by a 10 sec legendswap ... can we plz delete the cd on this so we can have same chances as holos .... otherwise its extremely unfair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > snips true, altho I never run into any heat problems. in practice tho I guess its not possible to spam forge all that much so in reality you spend less time in holomode then the cd indicates. this would start to take effect later on in the fight tho so they still have an advantage early on. idk its fine its just a lil wonky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falan.1839 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Literally no one who doesn't want to gimp himself is even playing holo more. Rev complaining about Holo is really the best joke I have read in a while, thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 > @"Arkantos.7460" said: > LOL reenant is affected by energy AND COOLDOWNS by a 10 sec legendswap ... > can we plz delete the cd on this so we can have same chances as holos .... otherwise its extremely unfair Yeah we might as well make all professions the same. So what you said, plus: -Revenant: Now when the revenant runs out of energy, his legend skills are locked for 15 seconds, takes 8k damage, and loses half of his sustain for the next 20 seconds. Done deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aelska.4609 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I agree with Falan, holos are not a problem anymore I don't even know why you keep talking about holos :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 > @"Arkantos.7460" said: > LOL reenant is affected by energy AND COOLDOWNS by a 10 sec legendswap ... > can we plz delete the cd on this so we can have same chances as holos .... otherwise its extremely unfair this is completely different and you know it, why do you even bother posting this nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos.7460 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 yolo holos defending their skillspamming class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floody.4951 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 of course holo is still busted powercreep with autoattacks quickness uptime etc but so is everything else. arkantos maybe you should look at your class aswell, rev is way better in almost every aspect than holo. the only one being worse is condi cleanse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > @"Arkantos.7460" said: > > LOL reenant is affected by energy AND COOLDOWNS by a 10 sec legendswap ... > > can we plz delete the cd on this so we can have same chances as holos .... otherwise its extremely unfair > > Yeah we might as well make all professions the same. So what you said, plus: > > -Revenant: Now when the revenant runs out of energy, his legend skills are locked for 15 seconds, takes 8k damage, and loses half of his sustain for the next 20 seconds. > > Done deal This would be a buff to rev lmao. I would perma swap once I hit a 15-20 energy. Btw except from meta herald/shiro all pvp rev's build **forces **themselves to use all their energy to trigger charged mist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETWING.2759 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 > @"Arkantos.7460" said: > yolo holos defending their skillspamming class Good like with more nerf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > snips > > yeah, right. this makes sense but its still strange that it doesn't have a normal cd like berserker, reaper, or druid. its the incongruency that gets me I think. Engineer has always been an oddball when it comes to weapon swapping/mode swapping. It doesn't have a weapon swap/attunement swap. I think a lot of people forget that engineer doesn't have a weapon swap. It just has (optional) kits. With holomode, the devs decided to put a cooldown on it to prevent people from spam hopping in and out of it (thereby circumventing some of the heat mechanics). That's the reason it even has a cooldown at all. Otherwise, they probably would have made it like any other engineer kit, which it essentially is. > @"Arkantos.7460" said: > yolo holos defending their skillspamming class Lol, you can't address @"Chaith.8256" 's counterpoint, so you go full red herring. > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > @"Arkantos.7460" said: > > > LOL reenant is affected by energy AND COOLDOWNS by a 10 sec legendswap ... > > > can we plz delete the cd on this so we can have same chances as holos .... otherwise its extremely unfair > > > > Yeah we might as well make all professions the same. So what you said, plus: > > > > -Revenant: Now when the revenant runs out of energy, his legend skills are locked for 15 seconds, takes 8k damage, and loses half of his sustain for the next 20 seconds. > > > > Done deal > > This would be a buff to rev lmao. I would perma swap once I hit a 15-20 energy. Btw except from meta herald/shiro all pvp rev's build **forces **themselves to use all their energy to trigger charged mist. How would this be a buff? It's literally nothing but a nerf. There is no upside to Chaith's proposed nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > How would this be a buff? It's literally nothing but a nerf. There is no upside to Chaith's proposed nerf. He was assuming he would also have his suggestion that Rev should have no cooldown on Legend swap.. so they could just refresh their energy every 3 seconds. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 In Holo mode don't you have a leap that's on a 4 second cd? Thank God u can't just use it almost when ever u want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > In Holo mode don't you have a leap that's on a 4 second cd? Thank God u can't just use it almost when ever u want. its 2 sec cd lol. that's always bothered me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > In Holo mode don't you have a leap that's on a 4 second cd? Thank God u can't just use it almost when ever u want. Almost like the increased movement, while powerful, is balanced because you can't use kits or other skills at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > its 2 sec cd lol. that's always bothered me. Context is key bro. Holosmith is pretty average right now, I'd say in an ideal balance state. Holosmith is way more fun and straightforward to fight than the vast majority of specs at the moment. A high access to a skill that moves you 450 distance is great, no doubt. Keep in mind the context of that being on a spec that has no iFrames at all when attacking, and one o-shi button on a 48s cooldown - it's 100% vulnerable to counter pressure when it's swinging diack. Fighting a Holo is an incredible breath of fresh air compared to high iFrame specs while simultaneously bursting you, permanent stealth specs, or tanky specs that vomit stability and conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > > In Holo mode don't you have a leap that's on a 4 second cd? Thank God u can't just use it almost when ever u want. > > its 2 sec cd lol. that's always bothered me. O, geez 2 seconds? That lvl of mobility and leap combo potential is threw the roofs. Like think about u having a good Gaurdain that keeps up a fair amount of light fields around, and well right now symbol brand is a rocken, so they everywhere. The amount of uptime retal potential, and other boosting affects that no other class can do because of 2 second cd leap is kinda alot. But this Just seems kinda to much imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > its 2 sec cd lol. that's always bothered me. > > Context is key bro. Holosmith is pretty average right now, I'd say in an ideal balance state. Holosmith is way more fun and straightforward to fight than the vast majority of specs at the moment. > > A high access to a skill that moves you 450 distance is great, no doubt. Keep in mind the context of that being on a spec that has no iFrames at all when attacking, and one o-shi button on a 48s cooldown - it's 100% vulnerable to counter pressure when it's swinging diack. Fighting a Holo is an incredible breath of fresh air compared to high iFrame specs while simultaneously bursting you, permanent stealth specs, or tanky specs that vomit stability and conditions. I suppose the current state is holo is fine but I would've nerfed a bit more things a bit less then a few things hard. perma vigor + adrenal implant is still kind of ridiculous but they would have to revert a nerf or two imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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