Guild Wars 2 has only two professions

[Swagg.9236]

* Long Range Lad: Deals spike damage from the maximum possible distance in order to avoid fighting in melee for a prolonged period of time; often bursts from off-screen or from stealth.

* Melee Boi: Uses a number of passives, block/evade skills, or teleports in order to enter into melee range for a burst rotation.

 

>!* Super-Secret Third Profession: Thief (because it does both of these things at once)

 

Having respectively lost anywhere between 25-66% damage effectiveness in its handful of most popular skillbar choices, Mesmer is almost obliterated. Guardian, which has always been litttle more than "Blue Warrior with 1 teleport and a free block," has almost no purpose anymore as a damage option; and if it does, said purpose is entirely indistinguishable in playstyle or goal from any other damage option. When looking at the potential damage output, Ranger is basically falling in line with Mesmer, blurring the lines between the classes. Never before has Revenant just been "even edgier Thief (but worse?)," and by ripping their 3-4 most popular damage buttons from this plane of existence, the class is left utterly broken and mostly worthless outside of just being an annoyance to anyone attempting to cap a point (then again, they could all just go condi, but then they're literally just a Scourge with how they become a moving AoE bubble on fixed intervals; see how this works now?). And really, these are only a few of the mountain of comparisons to make.

 

Now, to clarify, this is not a petition against the coming patch in general or even against any particular nerf, all this means is that Guild Wars 2 launched, in 2012, with **three or four TOO MANY professions**. This game, while featuring avatars which are satisfying to move, features very little, if nothing at all, when it comes to actual movement tech or juking. Beyond this, combat is entirely locked into cooldown-based decision-making rather than operating within a constant flux of aggression, mobility and defensive objectives. The game also features skill bars loaded up with, at the very least, 16 skills, often totaling far higher (sometimes up into the 30s), despite a massive number of them serving little purpose more than [DEAL X DAMAGE TO TARGET].

 

GW2 has a shallow gameplay cycle. It's so shallow, in fact, that this game was cursed to be dominated by patch notes the moment it released. This game has far too many classes for its own good, and this particular patch is perhaps the best proof of this. Anyone left playing this game is caught in a conflagration of shouts and complaints over how this class or that class has nothing left to contribute to PvP based entirely on notes which **did nothing but change some numbers.** If this game featured classes which had ANY sort of unique mechanics to them, ANY SORT of actual role to play within a team, then a global nerf to damage probably wouldn't create such a forum firestorm as you see now.

 

You have to understand: ArenaNet, as a company, has lost nearly every (or possibly every) developer who actually worked on the nuts and bolts which support Guild Wars 2. This sort of titanic balance patch is truly the best that Anet can do for GW2, and it's not even something that will REMOTELY address the main problem with the game. In fact, reducing every class' damage on a global level will only HIGHLIGHT this game's biggest problem more than anything else: the professions of Guild Wars 2 have NO ROLES to play. In their attempt to "be the most innovating MMORPG," the original developers of GW2 stripped the flavor and unique roles from their franchise's flagship classes, and reintroduced everything as a homogenized slurry of "I do DPS." Over time, powercreep had become the unique role to play; the only role to play; and, naturally, not every class could play it all at once. By removing the powercreep, GW2 is once again barren and gray.

 

Again, this patch is probably one of the better things that Anet could do for GW2 at this point; the underlying problem remains, however, that even if its the best thing that the staff could do, it doesn't, and it will never address the fundamental issue of how GW2 is just a game with a shallow gameplay cycle that buries nine, generic classes under a deep abyss of homogeneity.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> * Long Range Lad: Deals spike damage from the maximum possible distance in order to avoid fighting in melee for a prolonged period of time; often bursts from off-screen or from stealth.

> * Melee Boi: Uses a number of passives, block/evade skills, or teleports in order to enter into melee range for a burst rotation.

>

> >!* Super-Secret Third Profession: Thief (because it does both of these things at once)

>

> Having respectively lost anywhere between 25-66% damage effectiveness in its handful of most popular skillbar choices, Mesmer is almost obliterated. Guardian, which has always been litttle more than "Blue Warrior with 1 teleport and a free block," has almost no purpose anymore as a damage option; and if it does, said purpose is entirely indistinguishable in playstyle or goal from any other damage option. When looking at the potential damage output, Ranger is basically falling in line with Mesmer, blurring the lines between the classes. Never before has Revenant just been "even edgier Thief (but worse?)," and by ripping their 3-4 most popular damage buttons from this plane of existence, the class is left utterly broken and mostly worthless outside of just being an annoyance to anyone attempting to cap a point (then again, they could all just go condi, but then they're literally just a Scourge with how they become a moving AoE bubble on fixed intervals; see how this works now?). And really, these are only a few of the mountain of comparisons to make.

>

> Now, to clarify, this is not a petition against the coming patch in general or even against any particular nerf, all this means is that Guild Wars 2 launched, in 2012, with **three or four TOO MANY professions**. This game, while featuring avatars which are satisfying to move, features very little, if nothing at all, when it comes to actual movement tech or juking. Beyond this, combat is entirely locked into cooldown-based decision-making rather than operating within a constant flux of aggression, mobility and defensive objectives. The game also features skill bars loaded up with, at the very least, 16 skills, often totaling far higher (sometimes up into the 30s), despite a massive number of them serving little purpose more than [DEAL X DAMAGE TO TARGET].

>

> GW2 has a shallow gameplay cycle. It's so shallow, in fact, that this game was cursed to be dominated by patch notes the moment it released. This game has far too many classes for its own good, and this particular patch is perhaps the best proof of this. Anyone left playing this game is caught in a conflagration of shouts and complaints over how this class or that class has nothing left to contribute to PvP based entirely on notes which **did nothing but change some numbers.** If this game featured classes which had ANY sort of unique mechanics to them, ANY SORT of actual role to play within a team, then a global nerf to damage probably wouldn't create such a forum firestorm as you see now.

>

> You have to understand: ArenaNet, as a company, has lost nearly every (or possibly every) developer who actually worked on the nuts and bolts which support Guild Wars 2. This sort of titanic balance patch is truly the best that Anet can do for GW2, and it's not even something that will REMOTELY address the main problem with the game. In fact, reducing every class' damage on a global level will only HIGHLIGHT this game's biggest problem more than anything else: the professions of Guild Wars 2 have NO ROLES to play. In their attempt to "be the most innovating MMORPG," the original developers of GW2 stripped the flavor and unique roles from their franchise's flagship classes, and reintroduced everything as a homogenized slurry of "I do DPS." Over time, powercreep had become the unique role to play; the only role to play; and, naturally, not every class could play it all at once. By removing the powercreep, GW2 is once again barren and gray.

>

> Again, this patch is probably one of the better things that Anet could do for GW2 at this point; the underlying problem remains, however, that even if its the best thing that the staff could do, it doesn't, and it will never address the fundamental issue of how GW2 is just a game with a shallow gameplay cycle that buries nine, generic classes under a deep abyss of homogeneity.

 

Seriously? Sigh just another biased anti thief post------- predictable and boring. U done whining now? Lol

[JTGuevara.9018]

It is true what you say but...so what...? The way I look at this situation is, this game isn't going to be redesigned from scratch. (It's over 7 years old!) I and many others will live with somewhat homogenous classes. Even then, remember this: We didn't have Tempest, Druid or support Firebrand during the pre-powercreep days. Who's to say what type of builds will pop up?

 

As far as the forum "firestorm"....ppffffff...whatever....People will cry that their baby has been nerfed, big deal. The point is that is a necessary change to bring life into this game, to bring back the idea of pvp and competition and not hand out damage/boons to classes just to cynically attract players.

 

Although, we are in common agreement: I support this new path.

[mortrialus.3062]

There are three types of boxers

 

Swarmers

Sluggers

Out-boxers

 

There are three fighting game characters:

 

Zoner

Grappler

Rush Down

 

[Swagg.9236]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> There are three types of boxers

>

> Swarmers

> Sluggers

> Out-boxers

 

Boxing has a lot more going for it than GW2 when it comes to movement mechanics and timing.

 

> There are three fighting game characters:

>

> Zoner

> Grappler

> Rush Down

 

Fighting games have a lot more going for them than GW2 when it comes to spacing, timing, and even muscle memory.

 

Just in the same way that two Soldiers in Team Fortress 2 can play in the same server with the same load-out in the midst of a bunch of other people only for one to bottom-score while the other single-handedly dismantles the opposing team, a compression of options does not necessarily translate to "shallow" gameplay. For goodness' sake, Quake, for years, was seen as the epitome of FPS competitive gameplay when it came to 1v1s, and everyone who played that game had access to the exact same weapons and power-ups: it was just a mirror match every time, but playstyles still varied. There are multiple ways to play different fighting game characters as well.

 

 

[Swagg.9236]

> @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> It is true what you say but...so what...? The way I look at this situation is, this game isn't going to be redesigned from scratch. (It's over 7 years old!) I and many others will live with somewhat homogenous classes. Even then, remember this: We didn't have Tempest, Druid or support Firebrand during the pre-powercreep days. Who's to say what type of builds will pop up?

>

> As far as the forum "firestorm"....ppffffff...whatever....People will cry that their baby has been nerfed, big deal. The point is that is a necessary change to bring life into this game, to bring back the idea of pvp and competition and not hand out damage/boons to classes just to cynically attract players.

>

> Although, we are in common agreement: I support this new path.

 

Again, it's not like I don't think that this particular patch isn't "good" for GW2 (it's probably the best thing that anyone could have done in Anet's place), it's just more of a "isn't is sad that this is really just the best that they can do?" sort of realization. A note about this is that I haven't really played GW2 in AGES, but somebody told me about this patch, and after reading through it (and calming down from the laughter), I realized how pathetic GW2 had really become: staffed with people who didn't work on its development who are forced to just change numbers around instead of addressing any fundamental issues for fear of possibly breaking the game in a way which they cannot fix.

[Crab Fear.1624]

There are two types of bacon:

 

crispy

 

chewy

 

>!* Super-Secret Third Bacon: double bacon

 

 

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > * Long Range Lad: Deals spike damage from the maximum possible distance in order to avoid fighting in melee for a prolonged period of time; often bursts from off-screen or from stealth.

> > * Melee Boi: Uses a number of passives, block/evade skills, or teleports in order to enter into melee range for a burst rotation.

> >

> > >!* Super-Secret Third Profession: Thief (because it does both of these things at once)

> >

> > Having respectively lost anywhere between 25-66% damage effectiveness in its handful of most popular skillbar choices, Mesmer is almost obliterated. Guardian, which has always been litttle more than "Blue Warrior with 1 teleport and a free block," has almost no purpose anymore as a damage option; and if it does, said purpose is entirely indistinguishable in playstyle or goal from any other damage option. When looking at the potential damage output, Ranger is basically falling in line with Mesmer, blurring the lines between the classes. Never before has Revenant just been "even edgier Thief (but worse?)," and by ripping their 3-4 most popular damage buttons from this plane of existence, the class is left utterly broken and mostly worthless outside of just being an annoyance to anyone attempting to cap a point (then again, they could all just go condi, but then they're literally just a Scourge with how they become a moving AoE bubble on fixed intervals; see how this works now?). And really, these are only a few of the mountain of comparisons to make.

> >

> > Now, to clarify, this is not a petition against the coming patch in general or even against any particular nerf, all this means is that Guild Wars 2 launched, in 2012, with **three or four TOO MANY professions**. This game, while featuring avatars which are satisfying to move, features very little, if nothing at all, when it comes to actual movement tech or juking. Beyond this, combat is entirely locked into cooldown-based decision-making rather than operating within a constant flux of aggression, mobility and defensive objectives. The game also features skill bars loaded up with, at the very least, 16 skills, often totaling far higher (sometimes up into the 30s), despite a massive number of them serving little purpose more than [DEAL X DAMAGE TO TARGET].

> >

> > GW2 has a shallow gameplay cycle. It's so shallow, in fact, that this game was cursed to be dominated by patch notes the moment it released. This game has far too many classes for its own good, and this particular patch is perhaps the best proof of this. Anyone left playing this game is caught in a conflagration of shouts and complaints over how this class or that class has nothing left to contribute to PvP based entirely on notes which **did nothing but change some numbers.** If this game featured classes which had ANY sort of unique mechanics to them, ANY SORT of actual role to play within a team, then a global nerf to damage probably wouldn't create such a forum firestorm as you see now.

> >

> > You have to understand: ArenaNet, as a company, has lost nearly every (or possibly every) developer who actually worked on the nuts and bolts which support Guild Wars 2. This sort of titanic balance patch is truly the best that Anet can do for GW2, and it's not even something that will REMOTELY address the main problem with the game. In fact, reducing every class' damage on a global level will only HIGHLIGHT this game's biggest problem more than anything else: the professions of Guild Wars 2 have NO ROLES to play. In their attempt to "be the most innovating MMORPG," the original developers of GW2 stripped the flavor and unique roles from their franchise's flagship classes, and reintroduced everything as a homogenized slurry of "I do DPS." Over time, powercreep had become the unique role to play; the only role to play; and, naturally, not every class could play it all at once. By removing the powercreep, GW2 is once again barren and gray.

> >

> > Again, this patch is probably one of the better things that Anet could do for GW2 at this point; the underlying problem remains, however, that even if its the best thing that the staff could do, it doesn't, and it will never address the fundamental issue of how GW2 is just a game with a shallow gameplay cycle that buries nine, generic classes under a deep abyss of homogeneity.

>

> Seriously? Sigh just another biased anti thief post------- predictable and boring. U done whining now? Lol

 

big el em ay oh, my guy.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> There are two types of bacon:

>

> crispy

>

> chewy

>

> !* Super-Secret Third Bacon: double bacon

 

Guild Wars 2 wish it had a depth of combat akin to bacon's depth of flavor.

[Tayga.3192]

Warrior

Blue warrior

Magical thief

Warrior with pet

Thief

Weird warrior

Dark mage

Mage

Purple mage/thief

 

So we have variants of warrior, mage and thief.

It's ALMOST like this is intended. Like, the classic trilogy: warrior, mage, rogue.

 

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

There are definitely roles in GW2. They just aren't traditional.

 

Conquest:

* Team FIght

* Team Fight Support

* +1er Decap Roamer

* Side Node Duelist or Bunker

 

WvW:

* Front Line Zerg

* Mid Line Zerg

* Back Line Zerg

* Solo Roamers

* Small Havoc Builds

 

PvE

* Heal Support

* Alacrity Support

* Damage Buff Support

* Hard DPS

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> Warrior

> Blue warrior

> Magical thief

> Warrior with pet

> Thief

> Weird warrior

> Dark mage

> Mage

> Purple mage/thief

>

> So we have variants of warrior, mage and thief.

> It's ALMOST like this is intended. Like, the classic trilogy: warrior, mage, rogue.

>

>

 

Yes, Rock, Paper, Scissors, and Mushrooms. So then, why are there more than 4 classes in Guild Wars 2?

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> Yes, Rock, Paper, Scissors, and Mushrooms. So then, why are there more than 4 classes in Guild Wars 2?

 

Why do ice creams have different flavors?

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> There are definitely roles in GW2. They just aren't traditional.

>

> Conquest:

> * Team FIght

> * Team Fight Support

> * +1er Decap Roamer

> * Side Node Duelist or Bunker

 

These sorts of names comprise the most heavily overlapping "roles" of all time. It's sort of how I think that the GW2 playerbase adopted the word "bruiser" to make themselves feel as if there is some level of depth to this game's combat.

* Literally everyone in the game is a Team Fight player. That's how the conquest mode is engineered to work: everyone has to go and contest neutral points from the game's outset. A team-fight MUST occur, and therefore, everyone on the team has to figure out a way to contribute (obviously, some classes are better suited to go and float over to a home or far point; but ultimately, the majority of the team MUST go and be "team-fight"ers).

* Team Fight Support and Bunker might as well be the same thing considering how you don't send a bunker to solo-cap home at the start of a game, and rarely do you see a bunker attempt to rush far at a game's outset.

* +1er Decap Roamer is just literally anyone who walks into a favorable fight. Sure, some classes can spam teleports or movement skills to get to places faster than others, but EVERYONE HAS A MINIMAP. I'm a +1er on staff Elementalist. It only takes a single functioning eye and half of a brain. Same goes for decapping.

* Side node duelist is just a gimmick name for a +1er who found a better use of time harassing some poor guy on an isolated node while the other 8 players on the map fought elsewhere. Generally, considering how inefficient it is to camp a point all day in GW2 conquest, the fact that your team has a "dedicated side node duelist" probably means more than the other team lacks confidence in themselves more than GW2 has some deep combat system which warrants the designation of such a role.

* "Bunker" might be the only unique role aside from "generic damage guy who watches the minimap" on that list, but even then most meta builds as of late have allowed people to tank even the hardest hits for a number of seconds. Everyone carried a block, or some evade skills, or some invuln, and some passive healing along with them into battle; some of these things even just came baked into many specs or classes. So long as your team was watching a map, it wouldn't be too terribly hard to stall long enough for reinforcements to arrive in order to contest any point.

 

This PvP list of "roles" is basically just a Venn Diagram of 4 or 5 circles stacked more or less directly on top of each other.

 

>

> WvW:

> * Front Line Zerg

> * Mid Line Zerg

> * Back Line Zerg

> * Solo Roamers

> * Small Havoc Builds

 

* I get why you would break down a zerg into 3 parts based on positioning, but it's kind of a shame that those roles are mostly pre-determined by attack range rather than unique mechanics, buffs or debuffs. Take, for instance, how Guild Wars 1's 8v8 PvP scenarios also had a three-line orientation: Frontline, Linebacker, Backline. However, at least in that scenario, GW1 players in each line had specific armor classes, roles and expectations; moreover, these particular positions generally determined target values (i.e. Monks in the backline were almost always high priority for damage spikes and CC). WvW roles often get jumbled up since zergs will often group up and buff before taking passes at each other. Most importantly, since WvW has no real limit on party sizes, it's not like you can't have multiple instances of a high-value ability in one zerg. This sort of defeats the purpose of assigning values to particular targets: it turns the whole zerg into just a massive blob that has to be whittled down bit by bit. Sure, a zerg may have "positions" based on attack ranges and utility, but considering that it's just attack range and the fact that someone else might be playing the build that you also brought into the zerg, are these really true roles? What value does that role hold, if it can easily duplicated or replaced on the fly by basically anyone?

* Anyone can do anything that a "havoc squad" can do; but putting a moniker to a group like that just makes people feel better about blowing out the random stragglers on the map who cross their paths while they're catapulting a tower or capping a supply zone, I suppose. I understand that a group of people specifically dedicated to performing such actions behind enemy lines is generally going to be far more capable and effective than just a bunch of random people who maybe partied up for funsies, but this sort of role designation is mostly cheapened by the fact that they are entirely swatted by zergs, utterly destroy any random individual, and can only be checked by what one might consider another "havoc squad." It's a super one-dimensional sort of existence which equates to basically just "smaller zerg" rather than something that performs a unique role. It's not like zergs can't do anything that a havoc squad does anyway. Scaling that sort of thing down doesn't make the smaller version all that unique.

* "Solo Roamers" are just Thieves, Long-Range Lads, or any build which can more or less be somewhat Thief-like (ideally through protracted damage negation and/or instantaneous movement paired with insta-kill damage potential facilitated by the fact that you can get PvE stats in WvW).

 

>

> PvE

> * Heal Support

> * Alacrity Support

> * Damage Buff Support

> * Hard DPS

 

PvE might *possible* be one of the few places in which team roles are most present, but ultimately that's only due to the fact that these things were shoehorned into the game in a hamfisted manner when HoT released. Ever play GW2 in 2012? Ever do Arah in 2012? Did you play anything other than Guardian (scepter), Warrior (axe/axe with axe/X) or Elementalist (staff)? You did? Enjoy NEVER getting a spot, bro. GW2 PvE, particularly at launch, had 3 classes in it. Three. That's it. PvP was about as bad too. Just because Anet decided to smash a healer spec into Ranger doesn't mean that that class deserves to exist at all. They could have given Druid to Guardian and named it anything else. It's just a flavor; it's not a unique mechanic or something that belongs only to a certain class. That's what I'm talking about: this game has so little unique mechanics attempting to spread themselves across 9 classes that players are constantly told which specs to bring if they want their class to be viable or optimal. Consider how Herald, after having its boon duration passive nerfed from 50% to 33% at one point, was almost entirely replaced by a RUNE SET. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? ROLES in GW2? When a class can get replaced by a gear piece???

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > Yes, Rock, Paper, Scissors, and Mushrooms. So then, why are there more than 4 classes in Guild Wars 2?

>

> Why do ice creams have different flavors?

 

Now you're just being silly.

[bluri.2653]

Hahahah im loving the tears

[Tharan.9085]

And DH is the masterclass since it is both

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> * Long Range Lad: Deals spike damage from the maximum possible distance in order to avoid fighting in melee for a prolonged period of time; often bursts from off-screen or from stealth.

> * Melee Boi: Uses a number of passives, block/evade skills, or teleports in order to enter into melee range for a burst rotation.

>

> >!* Super-Secret Third Profession: Thief (because it does both of these things at once)

>

> Having respectively lost anywhere between 25-66% damage effectiveness in its handful of most popular skillbar choices, Mesmer is almost obliterated. Guardian, which has always been litttle more than "Blue Warrior with 1 teleport and a free block," has almost no purpose anymore as a damage option; and if it does, said purpose is entirely indistinguishable in playstyle or goal from any other damage option. When looking at the potential damage output, Ranger is basically falling in line with Mesmer, blurring the lines between the classes. Never before has Revenant just been "even edgier Thief (but worse?)," and by ripping their 3-4 most popular damage buttons from this plane of existence, the class is left utterly broken and mostly worthless outside of just being an annoyance to anyone attempting to cap a point (then again, they could all just go condi, but then they're literally just a Scourge with how they become a moving AoE bubble on fixed intervals; see how this works now?). And really, these are only a few of the mountain of comparisons to make.

>

> Now, to clarify, this is not a petition against the coming patch in general or even against any particular nerf, all this means is that Guild Wars 2 launched, in 2012, with **three or four TOO MANY professions**. This game, while featuring avatars which are satisfying to move, features very little, if nothing at all, when it comes to actual movement tech or juking. Beyond this, combat is entirely locked into cooldown-based decision-making rather than operating within a constant flux of aggression, mobility and defensive objectives. The game also features skill bars loaded up with, at the very least, 16 skills, often totaling far higher (sometimes up into the 30s), despite a massive number of them serving little purpose more than [DEAL X DAMAGE TO TARGET].

>

> GW2 has a shallow gameplay cycle. It's so shallow, in fact, that this game was cursed to be dominated by patch notes the moment it released. This game has far too many classes for its own good, and this particular patch is perhaps the best proof of this. Anyone left playing this game is caught in a conflagration of shouts and complaints over how this class or that class has nothing left to contribute to PvP based entirely on notes which **did nothing but change some numbers.** If this game featured classes which had ANY sort of unique mechanics to them, ANY SORT of actual role to play within a team, then a global nerf to damage probably wouldn't create such a forum firestorm as you see now.

>

> You have to understand: ArenaNet, as a company, has lost nearly every (or possibly every) developer who actually worked on the nuts and bolts which support Guild Wars 2. This sort of titanic balance patch is truly the best that Anet can do for GW2, and it's not even something that will REMOTELY address the main problem with the game. In fact, reducing every class' damage on a global level will only HIGHLIGHT this game's biggest problem more than anything else: the professions of Guild Wars 2 have NO ROLES to play. In their attempt to "be the most innovating MMORPG," the original developers of GW2 stripped the flavor and unique roles from their franchise's flagship classes, and reintroduced everything as a homogenized slurry of "I do DPS." Over time, powercreep had become the unique role to play; the only role to play; and, naturally, not every class could play it all at once. By removing the powercreep, GW2 is once again barren and gray.

>

> Again, this patch is probably one of the better things that Anet could do for GW2 at this point; the underlying problem remains, however, that even if its the best thing that the staff could do, it doesn't, and it will never address the fundamental issue of how GW2 is just a game with a shallow gameplay cycle that buries nine, generic classes under a deep abyss of homogeneity.

 

This is the end result of removing the trinity, rather than innovating it or creating a form of it which it works for your design. By removing the " Tank, healer, dps" trinity they have made sure that there will never be true balance. There will never be anything outside of "I do dps" with a tad of support, the game was designed for people who could not handle the real mmo-rpgs out there. Those who could not and refused to learn their roles... Guild wars 2 even goes against its original counter part which DID have the trinity but it was not heavy handed with it.

 

The trinity is not evil, it is not bad. It is actually the core principle that these type of games need, I love playing a tank in games like this and yet I cant? Why ? Well because the dev's have ensured such a roll in its true nature will never exist. They could of handled it like ESO does which makes it so tanks can do dps, just not as well but come loaded with damaged mitigation's FOR THEIR TEAM and cc as well the ability to shut-down big threats and dive into the back-line. This is what happens when you try to be so different from EVERY OTHER GAME rather than focusing on being the best innovation of the foundation. Why scrap the entire idea, when its not flawed but needs to be shaped into something beautiful? You should of ran with the original trinity and made it your own, now you're here and the game is doomed to repeat this cycle until the day the game itself ends.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > * Long Range Lad: Deals spike damage from the maximum possible distance in order to avoid fighting in melee for a prolonged period of time; often bursts from off-screen or from stealth.

> > * Melee Boi: Uses a number of passives, block/evade skills, or teleports in order to enter into melee range for a burst rotation.

> >

> > >!* Super-Secret Third Profession: Thief (because it does both of these things at once)

> >

> > Having respectively lost anywhere between 25-66% damage effectiveness in its handful of most popular skillbar choices, Mesmer is almost obliterated. Guardian, which has always been litttle more than "Blue Warrior with 1 teleport and a free block," has almost no purpose anymore as a damage option; and if it does, said purpose is entirely indistinguishable in playstyle or goal from any other damage option. When looking at the potential damage output, Ranger is basically falling in line with Mesmer, blurring the lines between the classes. Never before has Revenant just been "even edgier Thief (but worse?)," and by ripping their 3-4 most popular damage buttons from this plane of existence, the class is left utterly broken and mostly worthless outside of just being an annoyance to anyone attempting to cap a point (then again, they could all just go condi, but then they're literally just a Scourge with how they become a moving AoE bubble on fixed intervals; see how this works now?). And really, these are only a few of the mountain of comparisons to make.

> >

> > Now, to clarify, this is not a petition against the coming patch in general or even against any particular nerf, all this means is that Guild Wars 2 launched, in 2012, with **three or four TOO MANY professions**. This game, while featuring avatars which are satisfying to move, features very little, if nothing at all, when it comes to actual movement tech or juking. Beyond this, combat is entirely locked into cooldown-based decision-making rather than operating within a constant flux of aggression, mobility and defensive objectives. The game also features skill bars loaded up with, at the very least, 16 skills, often totaling far higher (sometimes up into the 30s), despite a massive number of them serving little purpose more than [DEAL X DAMAGE TO TARGET].

> >

> > GW2 has a shallow gameplay cycle. It's so shallow, in fact, that this game was cursed to be dominated by patch notes the moment it released. This game has far too many classes for its own good, and this particular patch is perhaps the best proof of this. Anyone left playing this game is caught in a conflagration of shouts and complaints over how this class or that class has nothing left to contribute to PvP based entirely on notes which **did nothing but change some numbers.** If this game featured classes which had ANY sort of unique mechanics to them, ANY SORT of actual role to play within a team, then a global nerf to damage probably wouldn't create such a forum firestorm as you see now.

> >

> > You have to understand: ArenaNet, as a company, has lost nearly every (or possibly every) developer who actually worked on the nuts and bolts which support Guild Wars 2. This sort of titanic balance patch is truly the best that Anet can do for GW2, and it's not even something that will REMOTELY address the main problem with the game. In fact, reducing every class' damage on a global level will only HIGHLIGHT this game's biggest problem more than anything else: the professions of Guild Wars 2 have NO ROLES to play. In their attempt to "be the most innovating MMORPG," the original developers of GW2 stripped the flavor and unique roles from their franchise's flagship classes, and reintroduced everything as a homogenized slurry of "I do DPS." Over time, powercreep had become the unique role to play; the only role to play; and, naturally, not every class could play it all at once. By removing the powercreep, GW2 is once again barren and gray.

> >

> > Again, this patch is probably one of the better things that Anet could do for GW2 at this point; the underlying problem remains, however, that even if its the best thing that the staff could do, it doesn't, and it will never address the fundamental issue of how GW2 is just a game with a shallow gameplay cycle that buries nine, generic classes under a deep abyss of homogeneity.

>

> This is the end result of removing the trinity, rather than innovating it or creating a form of it which it works for your design. By removing the " Tank, healer, dps" trinity they have made sure that there will never be true balance. There will never be anything outside of "I do dps" with a tad of support, the game was designed for people who could not handle the real mmo-rpgs out there. Those who could not and refused to learn their roles... Guild wars 2 even goes against its original counter part which DID have the trinity but it was not heavy handed with it.

>

> The trinity is not evil, it is not bad. It is actually the core principle that these type of games need, I love playing a tank in games like this and yet I cant? Why ? Well because the dev's have ensured such a roll in its true nature will never exist. They could of handled it like ESO does which makes it so tanks can do dps, just not as well but come loaded with damaged mitigation's FOR THEIR TEAM and cc as well the ability to shut-down big threats and dive into the back-line. This is what happens when you try to be so different from EVERY OTHER GAME rather than focusing on being the best innovation of the foundation. Why scrap the entire idea, when its not flawed but needs to be shaped into something beautiful? You should of ran with the original trinity and made it your own, now you're here and the game is doomed to repeat this cycle until the day the game itself ends.

 

I think removing the trinity so heavily is definitely one of Guild Wars 2's biggest Original Sins PvE and PvP.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > * Long Range Lad: Deals spike damage from the maximum possible distance in order to avoid fighting in melee for a prolonged period of time; often bursts from off-screen or from stealth.

> > > * Melee Boi: Uses a number of passives, block/evade skills, or teleports in order to enter into melee range for a burst rotation.

> > >

> > > >!* Super-Secret Third Profession: Thief (because it does both of these things at once)

> > >

> > > Having respectively lost anywhere between 25-66% damage effectiveness in its handful of most popular skillbar choices, Mesmer is almost obliterated. Guardian, which has always been litttle more than "Blue Warrior with 1 teleport and a free block," has almost no purpose anymore as a damage option; and if it does, said purpose is entirely indistinguishable in playstyle or goal from any other damage option. When looking at the potential damage output, Ranger is basically falling in line with Mesmer, blurring the lines between the classes. Never before has Revenant just been "even edgier Thief (but worse?)," and by ripping their 3-4 most popular damage buttons from this plane of existence, the class is left utterly broken and mostly worthless outside of just being an annoyance to anyone attempting to cap a point (then again, they could all just go condi, but then they're literally just a Scourge with how they become a moving AoE bubble on fixed intervals; see how this works now?). And really, these are only a few of the mountain of comparisons to make.

> > >

> > > Now, to clarify, this is not a petition against the coming patch in general or even against any particular nerf, all this means is that Guild Wars 2 launched, in 2012, with **three or four TOO MANY professions**. This game, while featuring avatars which are satisfying to move, features very little, if nothing at all, when it comes to actual movement tech or juking. Beyond this, combat is entirely locked into cooldown-based decision-making rather than operating within a constant flux of aggression, mobility and defensive objectives. The game also features skill bars loaded up with, at the very least, 16 skills, often totaling far higher (sometimes up into the 30s), despite a massive number of them serving little purpose more than [DEAL X DAMAGE TO TARGET].

> > >

> > > GW2 has a shallow gameplay cycle. It's so shallow, in fact, that this game was cursed to be dominated by patch notes the moment it released. This game has far too many classes for its own good, and this particular patch is perhaps the best proof of this. Anyone left playing this game is caught in a conflagration of shouts and complaints over how this class or that class has nothing left to contribute to PvP based entirely on notes which **did nothing but change some numbers.** If this game featured classes which had ANY sort of unique mechanics to them, ANY SORT of actual role to play within a team, then a global nerf to damage probably wouldn't create such a forum firestorm as you see now.

> > >

> > > You have to understand: ArenaNet, as a company, has lost nearly every (or possibly every) developer who actually worked on the nuts and bolts which support Guild Wars 2. This sort of titanic balance patch is truly the best that Anet can do for GW2, and it's not even something that will REMOTELY address the main problem with the game. In fact, reducing every class' damage on a global level will only HIGHLIGHT this game's biggest problem more than anything else: the professions of Guild Wars 2 have NO ROLES to play. In their attempt to "be the most innovating MMORPG," the original developers of GW2 stripped the flavor and unique roles from their franchise's flagship classes, and reintroduced everything as a homogenized slurry of "I do DPS." Over time, powercreep had become the unique role to play; the only role to play; and, naturally, not every class could play it all at once. By removing the powercreep, GW2 is once again barren and gray.

> > >

> > > Again, this patch is probably one of the better things that Anet could do for GW2 at this point; the underlying problem remains, however, that even if its the best thing that the staff could do, it doesn't, and it will never address the fundamental issue of how GW2 is just a game with a shallow gameplay cycle that buries nine, generic classes under a deep abyss of homogeneity.

> >

> > This is the end result of removing the trinity, rather than innovating it or creating a form of it which it works for your design. By removing the " Tank, healer, dps" trinity they have made sure that there will never be true balance. There will never be anything outside of "I do dps" with a tad of support, the game was designed for people who could not handle the real mmo-rpgs out there. Those who could not and refused to learn their roles... Guild wars 2 even goes against its original counter part which DID have the trinity but it was not heavy handed with it.

> >

> > The trinity is not evil, it is not bad. It is actually the core principle that these type of games need, I love playing a tank in games like this and yet I cant? Why ? Well because the dev's have ensured such a roll in its true nature will never exist. They could of handled it like ESO does which makes it so tanks can do dps, just not as well but come loaded with damaged mitigation's FOR THEIR TEAM and cc as well the ability to shut-down big threats and dive into the back-line. This is what happens when you try to be so different from EVERY OTHER GAME rather than focusing on being the best innovation of the foundation. Why scrap the entire idea, when its not flawed but needs to be shaped into something beautiful? You should of ran with the original trinity and made it your own, now you're here and the game is doomed to repeat this cycle until the day the game itself ends.

>

> I think removing the trinity so heavily is definitely one of Guild Wars 2's biggest Original Sins PvE and PvP.

 

**+100**

 

That is why guild wars 2 is suffering the consequences for forgetting their ancestor: Guild Wars

 


 

**Consequence For Dishonoring Guild Wars Holy Grail- Gwen/Mesmer**

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

>There will never be anything outside of "I do dps" with a tad of support, the game was designed for people who could not handle the real mmo-rpgs out there. Those who could not and refused to learn their roles... Guild wars 2 even goes against its original counter part which DID have the trinity but it was not heavy handed with it.

 

This really is the worst bit of it. GW1 had a trinity system, but classes like Mesmer and Necromancer added an extra dimension of flexibility and adaptability which prevented combat from always being too predictable in larger-scale fights. GW1's combat cadence was mostly based on how certain skills would affect others and, in turn, how any given player would have to rely on teammates to compensate for respective build weaknesses. GW2 PvP is just 10 people running 2-3 builds, all running into each other while slapping their buttons; generally the more passive player comes out on top. Whereas GW1 was a game of values (i.e. they have less players than we do, but the dead players aren't things like their monk backline, casters and warriors, so there is still a sense of cautiousness when approaching them), GW2 is a game of raw numbers (we have more players than they do, that means we can just keep +1'ing to win since everyone is mostly just running the same build in essence); and this is on top of the fact that GW2 will never have completely sudden outlier teams explosively rise to stardom from nowhere like EoE bombing, IWAY teams, niche MM teams that clogged pathways for warriors, or SWAY (as arguably annoying as all of them were to fight; the team comps and playstyles were at least somewhat unique).