I dislike the shroud camping meta

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Ever since we lost the 7 seconds shroud trait 2.5 years ago, we’ve been pushed more and more towards a shroud camping play style.

 

With each patch, our in-shroud effectiveness has been increased greatly while our outside-shroud effectiveness has been decreased greatly.

 

This forces us to camp and stay in shroud longer. And I dislike this play style. It is boring.

 

Please give us more alternatives by buffing our on-exit shroud traits and nerfing our in-shroud traits.

 

Examples of how they are pushing us towards a shroud camping meta?

 

* Beyond the Veil: we lost the gain protection on shroud exit. They are weakening us leaving shroud.

* Weakening shroud: no more crit.

* Spiteful spirit: nerfed no crit. Nerfed less damage. Further corrupt nerfs coming. Weakened shroud enter trait.

* Eternal Life: we lost fitg for protection in shroud. Guaranteed Gain LF outside shroud meaning we can afford to spend more time in shroud. This promotes shroud camping even more.

* Armoured shroud: gain carapace stacks in shroud. Like why do we need to have so much defences in shroud.

* Signets benefit the longer you stay in shroud

* unholy sanctuary: healing buffed longer stay in shroud more healing gained.

* Shrouded removal: buffed with anti toxin runes change. Practically immune to conditions while in shroud.

* Vampiric presence: increased effectiveness in shroud

* Signet of undeath: increased shroud regent meaning you can stay longer in shroud with less worries of running out of life force. Less reason to shroud flash to conserve LF.

 

Not only did we lose the mighty 7 seconds shroud trait, many traits are buffed/changed to benefit staying longer in shroud.

I dislike this shroud camping meta.

Say no to shroud camping.

[Methuselah.4376]

Well it's not really possible to camp shroud with Reaper as it degenerates too fast otherwise....it would actually be very good as Reaper's Shroud is awesome for dps. Death Shroud on the other hand....personally I find that you camp Death Shroud when you need defense but your best attacks (at least as far as condis go) are outside of shroud with the possible exception of Tainted Shackles.

 

So ye you have to deal with the tradeoff: Reaper's best offence is in shroud with a slight dps loss outside of shroud, Core Necro's best defense is in shroud with a slight boost to dps outside of shroud.

[Arzurag.7506]

Reaper is all about shroud and its superior combat-capabilities, scourge just uses life-force to fuel his abilities and base necro is using both shroud and normal abilities.

Considering that shroud is necro´s remarking feature, in other words, it is his class-mechanic, it appears fine to me that there is an incentive to use shroud.

 

Also, slashing foes with an enormous scythe is simply satisfying.

[Genesis.5169]

Well sir, scourge is absolutely trash for pvp. Thats your issue so Anet front loaded everything into reaper, i really feel anet is afraid to do any real meaningful changes to any condition classes for fear of the irrational hatred that the community has against conditions. If you want reaper shroud to die you have to advocate for condition buffs as alot of necros toolkit is condition focused in some way.

 

I am really serious Necro and Mesmers keep getting ruined over conditions over and over.

[ZDragon.3046]

I dis like the corrupting boon spam to be viable meta can we compromise and meet in the middle?

[LucianDK.8615]

dont forget the trait that gives you +10% damage for a time when entering or leaving shroud.

[Obtena.7952]

I don't get it ... if you DON'T want to maximize the use of the special mechanic of a class, why do you play it, ESPECIALLY if it's performance is ... questionable? There are only two reasons to play a certain class; theme or performance. If neither of those tickle your fancy ... well, why?

[Anchoku.8142]

Shroud is supposed to be Necro's version of a block with the addition of special skills. Unfortunately, the transform _also_ blocks normal skill use and I feel it is bad game design for a profession to both block incoming damage and have its best dps while blocking or invulnerable but this is Arenanet.

 

Shroud flashing died years ago. Shroud used to act like a full block and did not allow spillover damage on a single hit.

 

Shroud should be more about on-demand skill use but I agree the dps seems more important to the dev's. Maybe it is because the profession design outside of shroud carries the same issues it had in 2012.

[KrHome.1920]

The things mentioned in the starting post were not changed because anet wanted to favor a shroud camping playstyle, but to shift necro away from being a one trick pony that has to land its shroud entering burst or it will lose the fight.

 

Necro got a big variety in playstyles and that's great.

 

You can still focus on shroudburst (spite curses builds) without having the freekill mark above you the moment you leave shroud, because we lost some of the burst, but got a ton of damage multipliers and so can pick gear with defensive attributes to survive the cooldown.

 

On the other hand if you like camping shroud you now have the option to do so with the signets trait and vampirism and undeath signets slotted.

 

Reaper does never bore me these days because it is quite flexible:

 

My pvp build (shroudburst):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAc2FlJwsYcMPWJOuLataA-e

 

My pve build (can solo pretty much every open world champ and might even become viable in the competitive modes once the balance patch dropped):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAc2FlRw0YcMPWJOuWnNbA-e

 

Two completely different playstyles... they keep the spec fresh.

[Dadnir.5038]

Can't help it.

 

The shroud has been designed as the main defensive/sustain system of the necromancer, granted the "thematic", the initial goal of the shroud was probably to make the necromancer extremly resilient to conditions in order for him to have it's ability to manipulate conditions "bloom". (And honestly, I would've love to see a perfected version of this "goal").

 

Unfortunately, the game at launch wasn't really condition friendly and as a main (and only) defensive mechanism the shroud was "lacking" (and probably didn't meet the developper's expectations despite it's "potential"). Which is why the shroud gradually was buffed defensively by giving it a damage reduction first, some LF sustain in shroud, healing in shroud and then by increasing it's uptime.

 

At the same time, the devs probably found convenient and tried to satisfy players by gradually making the shroud more and more effective as an offensive tool for a profession that was struggling offensively despite being designed as a professions that need to be aggressive in it's gameplay. The shroud was thus gradually promoted to also become the main offensive tool, ideally balanced by the fact that using it also consume your main defense. And, objectively, it is a theoretically consuming defense for offense and offense for defense is a perfect design!

 

Unfortunately, theoretical perfection often fair poorly in practice. The initial goal of the shroud corrupted by an inadapted environment led the developpers to modify to many things in a desperate struggle to make this very shroud more realistic into the game without questioning it as the main defensive mechanism of the profession (which was probably an impossible task due to how deeply connected the main mechanism is to the core of it's profession).

 

So, from my point of view there is 3 factors that led to the shroud being camped:

- Unwillingness to give up a theoretically perfect mechanism.

- Rigidity of the profession's coding.

- Evolution of the role of the shroud (supported by players point of view).

 

The reality is that they tried to put to many eggs in the same box. The necromancer is now just a saiyan with a super-saiyan transformation and well, yes, to beat Cell, the best way was to accustomed yourself to being in super-saiyan mode. Maybe, in the futur, when it will be accustomed to camping into shroud, the necromancer will finally be able to find the supe-saiyan#2 transformation!

[Anchoku.8142]

Shroud should be for either special skill burst or defense, not sustained dps while invulnerable.

 

Dps should be highest when not using shroud. Cool down for shroud skills should be significant while the skills provide a burst of something not available while not transformed. Dark Path and Doom are proper examples. Life Blast is dps, though, and I would not mind if it was replaced or modified.

 

Reaper Shroud dps is quite high. Increased Shroud degeneration was needed but more utility in exchange for dps would be acceptable.

 

In any case, if shroud skills had reduced damage in exchange for something like boons, finishers, mobility, condition bursts and such, perhaps a shroud ICD reduction trait could come back and bring shroud flashing with it.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Shroud should be for either special skill burst or defense, not sustained dps while invulnerable.

>

> Dps should be highest when not using shroud. Cool down for shroud skills should be significant while the skills provide a burst of something not available while not transformed. Dark Path and Doom are proper examples. Life Blast is dps, though, and I would not mind if it was replaced or modified.

>

 

Amen!

 

> Reaper Shroud dps is quite high. Increased Shroud degeneration was needed but more utility in exchange for dps would be acceptable.

>

 

Personnally I would even root for RS to completely lose it's 2nd health bar and just be a plain 3rd weapon swap or even a standard transformation skill. Technically it shouldn't be difficult to modify some of the reaper's sustain traits to introduce a bit of defense "à la necromancer" (barrier on shout use + barrier when entering shroud for example).

 

> In any case, if shroud skills had reduced damage in exchange for something like boons, finishers, mobility, condition bursts and such, perhaps a shroud ICD reduction trait could come back and bring shroud flashing with it.

>

 

Maybe, but probably not because scourge exist and ANet don't want to have scourge's shroud CD affected by 2 CD reduction's trait.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Shroud should be for either special skill burst or defense, not sustained dps while invulnerable.

 

All 3 scenarios are possible at the moment. Condi reaper uses shroud for defense. Zerker reaper uses shroud for burst. Signet reaper uses shroud for sustained damage.

 

> Dps should be highest when not using shroud.

 

This has been the case for years and the community demanded a change. Argument: it does not make sense to force players to avoid the class mechanic for the best results (max. dps). Well, you can't make everybody happy I guess.

 

> Cool down for shroud skills should be significant while the skills provide a burst of something not available while not transformed. Dark Path and Doom are proper examples. Life Blast is dps, though, and I would not mind if it was replaced or modified.

 

Isn't a 25 or 30 second cooldown significantly enough for the high impact skills? Maybe you forgot how reaper feels without onslaught. The cooldowns are awefull while soul spiral is pure mass destruction ("significant").

 

> Reaper Shroud dps is quite high. Increased Shroud degeneration was needed but more utility in exchange for dps would be acceptable.

 

Reaper shroud has more utility than core shroud. More trait triggers on the auto, mobility, stability, more hard cc.

 

> In any case, if shroud skills had reduced damage in exchange for something like boons, finishers, mobility, condition bursts and such, perhaps a shroud ICD reduction trait could come back and bring shroud flashing with it.

 

Condition bursts won't exist anymore in the game, classwide. Shroud already has mobility (a 5 second cooldown 600 leap, which can be used at lot when camping shroud - but I forgot, camping shroud is bad...).

 

Why is everyone so obsessed with that cooldown? Trust me: necro (core and reaper) will be so hard to kill after that balance patch for a lot of people, that we can expect further nerfs (no matter whether they are justified at higher skill levels or not - anet just looks at gamewide statistics).

 

[Yasai.3549]

I have always used Shroud camping for Openworld, it's just straight up stronger than Greatsword.

 

The other traits don't even matter because Shroud Auto cleave does so much damage.

 

If yur talking about PvP/WvW, I think Shroud Camping was never a thing.

 

People Shroud Flash more often to proc Corrupts and Cleanse, and only commit fully once their opponent has blown defensives.

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

We got forced into it by years of not trying to improve the rest of the necro tool kit

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I like shroud camping

prove me wrong

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> I like shroud camping

> prove me wrong

 

I shall quote the Necro Emperor's decree to answer your question.

 

> @"Emapudapus.1307" said:

> I dont see problem directly with DS as its now, but with the spells that were changed over time and boosts the life force generation.

> Spectral walk, life force on fear, and signet that if traitet, also regenerate lf in shroud. Which by itself also promoting passive and lazy/easy gameplay and camping in shroud.

 

And I agree with the Necro Emperor's words that it is indeed lazy/easy gameplay after I tried the Necro King's Signet Core Necro build.

Its so simple to play it is an extremely brilliant build but at the same time extremely boring playstyle.

 

And I agree with Anchoku here.

 

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Shroud should be for either special skill burst or defense, not sustained dps while invulnerable.

>

[Dadnir.5038]

@"EremiteAngel.9765"

Yep, the issue is that the shroud do to much things at the same time and the fact that in the last years ANet pushed the shroud toward being the superior form of offense aggravated the issue.

 

The wise choice would be to push the shroud stance toward being the low damage "tank" form while the out of shroud state should be the dps form (simply because the shroud is the main defensive form of the necromancer). Baseline shroud tanking ability should be reduced (yes I'm saying that) and there should be trait that improve this tanking ability (put the currently baseline 50% damage reduction as a trait). Flash shrouding should be the way to increase the damage and of the out of shroud necromancer (via traits similar to _soul barb_). Support should be handled both in and out of shroud.

 

Technically, condition damages build just work like that, ANet devs should just push power builds to work this way as well. In the end, it all mainly come to rework the damage philosophy of the necromancer's power builds which have gone wrong with reaper. Reaper/core necro should not do much damage while in shroud, however, they should be able to boost seriously their out of shroud damage via flash shrouding (The irony is that it is close to the original philosophy for the necromancer's power damage, it's just that ANet couldn't bear to nerf shroud damage and focus the damage buff out of the shroud. They weren't helped either by players who just asked for more damage).

 

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> I like shroud camping

> prove me wrong

 

Who wouldn't like dealing heavy damage while sheltering it's health pool.

Nobody can prove you wrong. All people can do is state that such design isn't good balance wise.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> @"EremiteAngel.9765"

> Yep, the issue is that the shroud do to much things at the same time and the fact that in the last years ANet pushed the shroud toward being the superior form of offense aggravated the issue.

>

> The wise choice would be to push the shroud stance toward being the low damage "tank" form while the out of shroud state should be the dps form (simply because the shroud is the main defensive form of the necromancer). Baseline shroud tanking ability should be reduced (yes I'm saying that) and there should be trait that improve this tanking ability (put the currently baseline 50% damage reduction as a trait). Flash shrouding should be the way to increase the damage and of the out of shroud necromancer (via traits similar to _soul barb_). Support should be handled both in and out of shroud.

>

> Technically, condition damages build just work like that, ANet devs should just push power builds to work this way as well. In the end, it all mainly come to rework the damage philosophy of the necromancer's power builds which have gone wrong with reaper. Reaper/core necro should not do much damage while in shroud, however, they should be able to boost seriously their out of shroud damage via flash shrouding (The irony is that it is close to the original philosophy for the necromancer's power damage, it's just that ANet couldn't bear to nerf shroud damage and focus the damage buff out of the shroud. They weren't helped either by players who just asked for more damage).

>

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > I like shroud camping

> > prove me wrong

>

> Who wouldn't like dealing heavy damage while sheltering it's health pool.

> Nobody can prove you wrong. All people can do is state that such design isn't good balance wise.

 

I said that before and people disagreed that reaper shroud should be defensive and its abilities defensives and folks disagreed.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> I said that before and people disagreed that reaper shroud should be defensive and its abilities defensives and folks disagreed.

>

You are not the only one who think like that, yet there are plenty that think the opposite. Last year, someone made a thread about how the necromancer's community was divided. This point of view is part of the "division".

 

People having different opinions is bound to happen, especially since the necromancer out of shroud is pretty bad at dealing power damage. You won't have people whose build benefit greatly from the shroud as a damage dealing mechanism say: "Yes! I agree it's bad that the shroud is good at dealing damage." Anet's devs have chosen a path of developpement for the necromancer where he cannot be the most effective choice at anything (other than boon hate) however, in exchange, he will always be somewhat sturdy and have average damages.

 

Going in the direction you and me suggest mean that the necromancer would be able to specialize more into damage or defense. However, PvP wise there is not much value in being overly specialized for a "slow" profession like the necromancer. Moreover, for some players it is "fun" to go super saiyan and reckt another player. Talking about taking the shroud "advantage" from those player is the same as talking about taking off the burst of damage of the thief when leaving stealth. Both designs are "bad" and impede a proper developpement of the profession but for some players it's where lie their own "fun".

 

Like I answered to _stand the wall_, it's natural to "like" something which isn't balanced when it benefit you.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > I said that before and people disagreed that reaper shroud should be defensive and its abilities defensives and folks disagreed.

> >

> You are not the only one who think like that, yet there are plenty that think the opposite. Last year, someone made a thread about how the necromancer's community was divided. This point of view is part of the "division".

>

> People having different opinions is bound to happen, especially since the necromancer out of shroud is pretty bad at dealing power damage. You won't have people whose build benefit greatly from the shroud as a damage dealing mechanism say: "Yes! I agree it's bad that the shroud is good at dealing damage." Anet's devs have chosen a path of developpement for the necromancer where he cannot be the most effective choice at anything (other than boon hate) however, in exchange, he will always be somewhat sturdy and have average damages.

>

> Going in the direction you and me suggest mean that the necromancer would be able to specialize more into damage or defense. However, PvP wise there is not much value in being overly specialized for a "slow" profession like the necromancer. Moreover, for some players it is "fun" to go super saiyan and reckt another player. Talking about taking the shroud "advantage" from those player is the same as talking about taking off the burst of damage of the thief when leaving stealth. Both designs are "bad" and impede a proper developpement of the profession but for some players it's where lie their own "fun".

>

 

I'm apprehensive about the chances i do suspect that necromancers are going to get sustain nerfs and be underpowered. I do think what some have said that thief player who commented in PVP zdragon and such pointing out why necros are not overpowered and why the class didn't get equal changes to others due to other classes over performing in comparison. The fact so many are already complaining necro didn't get equal nerfs leaves me not wanting to come back and play this game, because i have low hope and pessimistic about it.

 

I was happy they nerfed every class dps hugely and i wasn't even worried about the nerfs necro took because i was like yeah makes sense necros would take some nerfs. Power creep was massive across the game in damage, but i am worried if they nerf the regen and other stuff for necro, it would end up exactly where it was before ez free kill punching bag.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> I'm apprehensive about the chances i do suspect that necromancers are going to get sustain nerfs and be underpowered. I do think what some have said that thief player who commented in PVP zdragon and such pointing out why necros are not overpowered and why the class didn't get equal changes to others due to other classes over performing in comparison. The fact so many are already complaining necro didn't get equal nerfs leaves me not wanting to come back and play this game, because i have low hope and pessimistic about it.

>

> I was happy they nerfed every class dps hugely and i wasn't even worried about the nerfs necro took because i was like yeah makes sense necros would take some nerfs. Power creep was massive across the game in damage, but i am worried if they nerf the regen and other stuff for necro, it would end up exactly where it was before ez free kill punching bag.

 

Well, I believe that ANet will need to touch the sustain of the necromancer after the patch, so...

 

Like I said a lot of time in the sPvP sub section, the thing is that the necromancer's defense based on health/LF sustain benefit the most from a "low" damage environment. The level of damage that can be expected after the patch is basically the level of damage that you'd have currently if there were no boons. And the necromancer will be extremly resilient in this kind of environment. It's sustain not being nerfed will probably make him overperforming in survivability even if he build offensively.

 

The necromancer's area of expertise is in dealing against a lot of small hits, while it's defensive system have a hard time dealing against high damage hits.

 

I have no reason to think that ANet's devs will somehow change their patern for balancing. The necromancer's sustain is bound to be over the top in the next patch as it is presented and ANet will expectedly do what they do when it's the case: nerf numbers. You're right to think that the necro will most likely slowly go back to it's weak state and I even expect ANet to end up bringing it to an even lower state because the fights will last longer and the necromancer will feel resilient to other even if he can't do anything. ANet's devs are bound to try to bring him to a state where the necromancer can be killed in the same average time other professions will be killed and this most likely mean nerf to _spectral armor_ duration for example (it would be awfull but still I'd understand why they do it since in conjunction with shroud it can effectively work as a pseudo invuln skill in low damage environment and 8 seconds of pseudo invuln that do not prevent you from dealing damage might feel infuriating to other professions).

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Like I said a lot of time in the sPvP sub section, the thing is that the necromancer's defense based on health/LF sustain benefit the most from a "low" damage environment. The level of damage that can be expected after the patch is basically the level of damage that you'd have currently if there were no boons. And the necromancer will be extremly resilient in this kind of environment. It's sustain not being nerfed will probably make him overperforming in survivability even if he build offensively.

Marauder will finally be viable again for necros. It became unviable when speed of shadows was reworked. We had to invenst in defense to survive the cooldown. A non-sos necro has always been unviable outside of organized teams. For solo q even in 2013, when the damage was lower and the shroud degenerated slower, sos was a must pick to get the class working.

 

The problem now is, that necro still has its buffed precision and ferocity traits that allow him to invest in defensive gear. This will be more a problem in wvw where there are a lot more tanky stats than paladin amulet in pvp.

 

The signet trait bug for signet of the undeath has to be fixed. Otherwiese necro becomes a tanky rezbot with a rez that has a 10s cooldown.

 

The rest is just: Get gud at the game! People are used to facetank necros of any kind because the class drops in seconds for at least 3 years now. That's what everybody does and why everybody will complain.

 

I can tell everybody the same: you have your damn mobility skills (which we necros don't have) for a reason! Use them properly! I can kite other reapers on reaper so you can do it too on any other class with much more mobility options. And core... sorry but that spec is a sitting duck. If you face it, then you can do what you want with it. You control the fight, because it is so damn immobile.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > I'm apprehensive about the chances i do suspect that necromancers are going to get sustain nerfs and be underpowered. I do think what some have said that thief player who commented in PVP zdragon and such pointing out why necros are not overpowered and why the class didn't get equal changes to others due to other classes over performing in comparison. The fact so many are already complaining necro didn't get equal nerfs leaves me not wanting to come back and play this game, because i have low hope and pessimistic about it.

> >

> > I was happy they nerfed every class dps hugely and i wasn't even worried about the nerfs necro took because i was like yeah makes sense necros would take some nerfs. Power creep was massive across the game in damage, but i am worried if they nerf the regen and other stuff for necro, it would end up exactly where it was before ez free kill punching bag.

>

> Well, I believe that ANet will need to touch the sustain of the necromancer after the patch, so...

>

> Like I said a lot of time in the sPvP sub section, the thing is that the necromancer's defense based on health/LF sustain benefit the most from a "low" damage environment. The level of damage that can be expected after the patch is basically the level of damage that you'd have currently if there were no boons. And the necromancer will be extremly resilient in this kind of environment. It's sustain not being nerfed will probably make him overperforming in survivability even if he build offensively.

>

> The necromancer's area of expertise is in dealing against a lot of small hits, while it's defensive system have a hard time dealing against high damage hits.

>

> I have no reason to think that ANet's devs will somehow change their patern for balancing. The necromancer's sustain is bound to be over the top in the next patch as it is presented and ANet will expectedly do what they do when it's the case: nerf numbers. You're right to think that the necro will most likely slowly go back to it's weak state and I even expect ANet to end up bringing it to an even lower state because the fights will last longer and the necromancer will feel resilient to other even if he can't do anything. ANet's devs are bound to try to bring him to a state where the necromancer can be killed in the same average time other professions will be killed and this most likely mean nerf to _spectral armor_ duration for example (it would be awfull but still I'd understand why they do it since in conjunction with shroud it can effectively work as a pseudo invuln skill in low damage environment and 8 seconds of pseudo invuln that do not prevent you from dealing damage might feel infuriating to other professions).

 

Lets hope they dont do this because this just means that if enough time passes the game will end up the same way it is now. once necro is down people move to the next thing till we only have afew over-performing (usually the same ones, ranger, guardian, warrior, herald etc over performing while everyone else sits in the middle or lower.

 

For once anet needs to get the game to a point let each profession be good at their own thing within reason and not fall into the same pit we are in now. So necros dont die the moment someone looks at them anymore and it takes more hits than everyone else cause everyone else has options for avoiding or negating a portion of hits.

There is literally no point in making one class be purposely held back in boons, mobility, attack speed, hard defenses (evades / blocks) etc and also make them die in the same number of hits everyone else who has those other things in their kits If they do nerf necro to the stage you predict here then the whole game will be jacked within a years time right back to the same state it is now.

 

Im personally hoping this is the tipping point where people actually just need to start learning not just against necro but against other professions to so we dont end up right back in the same boat after a few patches and complaints.

 

Im ok with accepting nerfs to an extent for balancing purposes im not ok with hard balancing one class for thematic consistency based on the past years (which has never been an ideal balanced state) while letting the majority of everyone else get away willy nilly over a period of time.

 

Thats the whole reason why many people consider many forms of necro to be underperforming now because its always hard balanced to some extent with what it can and cannot have while others get to run wild with explosive ideas. via boons new mechanics etc.

[ZDragon.3046]

Also looking back at some of the recent post i dont think the shroud fuctions should be something where you enter them for less dps that realsticly makes no sense especially if the skills in the shroud kit are designed to be offensive skills.

 

no other profession works this way regardless of the shroud bar covering hp or not.

 

Infact that was one of the main issues people took with reaper early on. The fact that going into shroud was actually a dps loss despite the fact that it was suppose to be this scary super powerful form. Thats the whole reason i ever even got drawn into the necormancer profession years ago back in the core game was because i saw some one use death shroud for and had no idea it was a different fourm that the class could have regular access to.

 

Despite its low damage at the time (people dont care to much about dps back then there were no dps meters etc) just the idea of having this new form that no other profession had was so unique and felt powerful enough from my perspective that it was something i wanted to regularlly use.

 

Even now i still expect shroud skills to be stronger than base skills just like you would expect holo skills to be stronger than base weapon skills.

 

If they wanted to something like holo on necro they would have to rework utilities and traits from the ground up to give necro at a core level the same tools the other professions have (not just barrier thats not good enough) they would literally need evades, blocks, reflects, instant blinks etc) and anet as far as we can see is 100% against doing that for necro which is not so much a bad thing so long as they let what necro is good at be effective the moment they cull its unique effectiveness without giving the other tools the other light armors do have then its a problem.

 

As far as shroud camping goes.

Shroud usage is a part of the profession and any raider knows that shroud only improves dps up to a certain point at which if you continue to camp your dps actually starts to drop back down. Optimal players dont camp but cycle back and forth between shroud in burst the only time i realistically camp shroud is in a tight situation say its a fractal and my hp is low and my healer is currently not near me or busy rezing someone else. OR perhaps im trying to res someone who is downed but dont have the hp to soak the damage so ill use my shroud to do it instead. In terms of pvp shroud camping is more noticable but because there are not other options other than just letting someone erase your hp. Generally speaking though shroud flashing is not acceptable either which is what most people who hate this "shroud camping" ideally want for pvp purposes and thats likely never going to come back either.

 

They think that some how if they can get anet to nerf shroud up time that they will be compensated by being given their 7s shroud cooldown back which is very unlikely to happen. Instead they will not only get shroud uptime cut back they will also end up still stuck with a 10s cd on entry. Be very careful what you ask for in 2020. Its rare you can ask for a mechanical change in a game you like these days and get it the way you want it 99% of the time you get nothing of what you asked for and end up wishing you had what you lost.