Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 See, here's the problem I have, though. > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > I don’t really see how I’d destroy niche builds with some of these. Theoretically a good skill would be good even if it **doesn’t provide on paper infinite resources-** What it looks like on paper doesn't matter very much if we're talking about live content. What matters is, in game, if the performance allowed by the skill is within a parameter that doesn't: *make playing that class excessively rewarding for very little effort *make playing that class excessively punishing for even picking up in general cases. If there is not hard evidence that the performance afforded by the trait does either one of those, leave it alone. Straying beyond that is masochism. > **If stopping a de from forever marking clones makes them unviable than maybe ppl shouldn’t play de**, though I’ll admit that an icd could hurt ppl using mercy for a second mark, but then again that’s not 100% the problem That's a poor way to see balance. That's really not your call to make. > it should have something on paper that stops it from being used endlessly That's relative. some mechanics have explicit, on paper counters. Some are implicitly restricted by the game itself. (Only so many targets can die in a game, at a particular time, less that number consistently, even less that number being marked one after another. ) I'm not on board with nerfing refresh of mark simply because it can be used on clones or on downed mesmers for a handful of extra boons. Stealing on a mirage while not Deadeye does that to a greater extent, and they can control their clones when downed to prevent this. If something is overperforming, by all means debate that, But arguing with "if someone doesn't think they should not get their trait nerfed because of how it interacts with mesmers in this specific instance, then maybe they should just not play Deadeye" isn't sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 @"Dantheman.3589" M7 got might duration nerf, BkobK got quickness duration nerf, and FfE got a might duration nerf. Multiple other DE traits got nerfed. I’m not sure why you think DE didn’t get decent nerfs in this last patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > See, here's the problem I have, though. > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > I don’t really see how I’d destroy niche builds with some of these. Theoretically a good skill would be good even if it **doesn’t provide on paper infinite resources-** > > What it looks like on paper doesn't matter very much if we're talking about live content. What matters is, in game, if the performance allowed by the skill is within a parameter that doesn't: > > *make playing that class excessively rewarding for very little effort > *make playing that class excessively punishing for even picking up in general cases. > > If there is not hard evidence that the performance afforded by the trait does either one of those, leave it alone. Straying beyond that is masochism. > > > **If stopping a de from forever marking clones makes them unviable than maybe ppl shouldn’t play de**, though I’ll admit that an icd could hurt ppl using mercy for a second mark, but then again that’s not 100% the problem > > That's a poor way to see balance. That's really not your call to make. > > > it should have something on paper that stops it from being used endlessly > > That's relative. some mechanics have explicit, on paper counters. Some are implicitly restricted by the game itself. (Only so many targets can die in a game, at a particular time, less that number consistently, even less that number being marked one after another. ) > > I'm not on board with nerfing refresh of mark simply because it can be used on clones or on downed mesmers for a handful of extra boons. Stealing on a mirage while not Deadeye does that to a greater extent, and they can control their clones when downed to prevent this. > > If something is overperforming, by all means debate that, But arguing with "if someone doesn't think they should not get their trait nerfed because of how it interacts with mesmers in this specific instance, then maybe they should just not play Deadeye" isn't sound. See i never said anything about what you think, you can think what you want... The perimeter u provided for over performing in game of it being rewarding for little effort actually fits my arguement perfectly because there ways for these things to be used with no resources and if this is true on paper for what I have listed in 4 different cases for mark than it is exactly what you claim as over performing. Getting rid of unintended + exploitable problems with a class before ppl have to rush into forums for nerfs, seems like a proper and possibly only way for a player to help explore options for proper balance... I’m not the one making calls to devs to make changes but that’s the case with most ppl on the forums and from that perspective it’s better to provide accurate representation of actual over performing ascepts instead of making plz nerf thread as just randomly changing things isn’t in anets best interest Ben himself pointed out that changes have to be logical not arbitrary That’s the point of this to logically depict actual problems with the class I main instead of arbitrarily asking for buff or nerfs to my class or others and that’s why it has to be based on over performing on paper as that is the most logical way to actually depict the problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > @"Dantheman.3589" > > M7 got might duration nerf, BkobK got quickness duration nerf, and FfE got a might duration nerf. > > Multiple other DE traits got nerfed. I’m not sure why you think DE didn’t get decent nerfs in this last patch. Just look at the op almost nothing has to do with nerfs besides a few weapon coefficients which I would just rather have even, also this isn’t about deadeye it just happens to have many things that fit the perameters of over performing resource wise which indirectly is already going against the quota of the recent patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenyus.2569 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 icds on bountiful theft and thrill of the crime? lad you got me with this one LOL thief already feels really weak compared to many other specs and some of your suggetions are just dellusional and would break class mechanics, youre aiming at the wrong spots my man dont ask for bs like this cuz if it actually happened youd regret it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Zenyus.2569" said: > icds on bountiful theft and thrill of the crime? lad you got me with this one LOL thief already feels really weak compared to many other specs and some of your suggetions are just dellusional and would break class mechanics, youre aiming at the wrong spots my man dont ask for bs like this cuz if it actually happened youd regret it I don’t really see how it would break class mechanics as having a short icd on these, maybe 3or 4 secs, would never even have a chance to impact steal when running swindlers equilibrium. Delusional implies inaccurate but I don’t see much that’s inaccurate and most wouldn’t actually impact the strength of thief atm. Balance is important but also what important is the reason to point out things fundamentally or on paper abusable/wrong with thief atm Also note nothing I point out is asking for anything if I wanted that than I would make a wishlist. This is to educate ppl about resources that are possibly unintended, abusable or inconsistent about thief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashada.9436 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes... > > > > > > > There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable... > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt you play thief > > > > > > > > > > Lol I main thief > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet.. > > > > > > > > > > And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol > > > > > > > > It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief. > > > > > > If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason. > > > Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive. > > > > Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol > > Yet on paper they all are and even some are completely unintended and can have huge impact. So you are proven wrong. "on paper" this "on paper" that You really have no idea what you're talking about, huh? Show me a video of you 'abusing' said mechanics and I'll believe you play Thief lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes... > > > > > > > > There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt you play thief > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I main thief > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet.. > > > > > > > > > > > > And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol > > > > > > > > > > It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief. > > > > > > > > If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason. > > > > Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive. > > > > > > Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol > > > > Yet on paper they all are and even some are completely unintended and can have huge impact. So you are proven wrong. > > "on paper" this "on paper" that > You really have no idea what you're talking about, huh? Show me a video of you 'abusing' said mechanics and I'll believe you play Thief lol No I really don’t have to post a video this forum discussion has nothing to do with videos and mentioning so is where you are very very wrong. Facts don’t lie and I don’t have to post a video when u can look up the numbers and calculate these things on your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashada.9436 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes... > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt you play thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I main thief > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol > > > > > > > > > > > > It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief. > > > > > > > > > > If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason. > > > > > Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive. > > > > > > > > Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol > > > > > > Yet on paper they all are and even some are completely unintended and can have huge impact. So you are proven wrong. > > > > "on paper" this "on paper" that > > You really have no idea what you're talking about, huh? Show me a video of you 'abusing' said mechanics and I'll believe you play Thief lol > > No I really don’t have to post a video this forum discussion has nothing to do with videos and mentioning so is where you are very very wrong. Facts don’t lie and I don’t have to post a video when u can look up the numbers and calculate these things on your own So basically you're pulling things out of thin air? Cool, good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes... > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt you play thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I main thief > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason. > > > > > > Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol > > > > > > > > Yet on paper they all are and even some are completely unintended and can have huge impact. So you are proven wrong. > > > > > > "on paper" this "on paper" that > > > You really have no idea what you're talking about, huh? Show me a video of you 'abusing' said mechanics and I'll believe you play Thief lol > > > > No I really don’t have to post a video this forum discussion has nothing to do with videos and mentioning so is where you are very very wrong. Facts don’t lie and I don’t have to post a video when u can look up the numbers and calculate these things on your own > > So basically you're pulling things out of thin air? Cool, good to know. Nah u just saying random stuff. I have an idea why don’t u post a video that proves I don’t play thief think about it is it possible to prove with a video becuz that’s u post rn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Nashada.9436" said: > You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao https://rantingandraisingconcerns.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dog-sniff.jpg familiar scent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > Mug can't be spammed even if someone decided to waste it on a clone or a pet. > > > > > > > Ice Shard Stab was already hotfixed. > > > > > > > CnD won't be abused because it's slow, clunky, relatively buggy and 5 ini just ain't worth it to spam. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all let me break it down- > > > > > > using mark on a clone will most likely kill it and refresh mark immediately, this is 100% risk free spammable and can give an insane amount of boons. > > > > > > Ice shard was hot fixed but guess what tooth stab wasn’t and it deals the same damage ice shard did. > > > > > > Sword burst was basically untouched besides autos so now u can just use w.e u have- tactical strike sword 3 or 5 and u get away with it > > > > > > > > > > You don't nerf a skill that may be abused as a result of other skill usage. Fix mark, don't nerf core. _(also my mark never oneshoted a clone, but I guess it can happen)_ > > > > > Tooth stab is inaccessible in PvP even on pets, clones and beasts it's a random roll item _(at least I think it's not guaranteed)_, so even if you really happened to get it as stolen item its somewhat of a good reward for wasting your steal in a RNG attempt to get it. > > > > > Sword burst was never big to begin with, it's not even a burst set, the fact you can use CnD which happens to have higher dmg than its other skills doesn't magically make it bursty, almost all other professions have about two skills on most weapon sets that hit harder than other weapon skills on the same weapon, it's their purpose. It's simply intended to have some weapon skills hit harder than other skills on that weapon, that's why they cost more to use _(or have higher CD, etc.)_. > > > > > CnD simply never was a dangerous nor spammable skill, I don't deny that you might have a different experience, but in my time I've never seen it be useful for anything than very very very occasional combo with steal and even then it randomly didn't land, anytime some Thief attempted to spam it I just undamaged him without even having to dodge. > > > > > > > > Tooth stab is not inaccessible in pvp and 2 hits from that would ko most targets and that’s obviously busted. > > > > My suggestion to add an icd wouldnt affect core builds at all- just put a 5 sec icd on mug etc. to make sure mark doesn’t abuse it and because 5 secs isn’t enough for daredevil or core to get steal back it wouldn’t impact them. > > > > And yeah with de ur goona have to spam something with initiative and having a random skill busted is no bueno, but you can disagree it’s w.e > > > > > > How do you access tooth stab in PvP? > > > > I think he must mean ice shard stab, and it was already fixed. > > > > **Ice Shard Stab: Fixed an issue in which the damage increase for this skill was applied in all game modes instead of only PvE.** > > No I don’t mean ice shard. Tooth stab also has this bug and was not patched, it is a random roll item from beast etc and it can upper limit of 10k per which is busted and will 2 hit ko ppl. > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > All these resources are abusable! > > > > > > 1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing > > > 2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE > > > 3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fix > > > Other stuff of lower but still very high priority > > > 4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost > > > 5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative > > > 6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated > > > 7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful. > > > 8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted > > > > > > I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty > > > > Ill go through the list. > > > > 1. if anything needs a cooldown, it would be mark. > > 2. tactical strike is soft cc, and 7k is very unlikely without plenty of qualifiers, meaning it will never happen in normal play alone even on zerk. > > 3. Tooth stab is not in pvp, you must mean ice shard stab, and it has already been patched. > > 4. feline grace got a competitive reduction already to 3 seconds, and acrobatics means less burst from a thief, so less burst should allow for more sustain..... > > 5. fine nerf those > > 6. if anything needs a cooldown, it's mark > > 7. many weapons go untouched because (1) they only do slow well telegraphed damage, (2) they are only afffective under certain conditions and/or (3) they have high initiative cost unjustified to their effects. The idea was not to lower every damage skill across the board, because they WERE NOT...across the board. > > 8. I don't think you have a real build in mind, but if you do lets see some game play with this eternal intiative busted utility, eternal dodging DE. > > > > I have heard that bunker staff is back, and I actually believe that one is possibly true. > > > > I would trust the claims of mortrialus, and shadowpass for broken thief stuff before this list above. > > > > That and the gameplay from sindrener > > > > > > 1.)If mark needs a cd to prevent 3 things on that list from being exploited than it’s very exploitable. > 2.)doesn’t matter if it’s hard to get 7k on tactical strike it’s still about 2000% the damage of other ccs and no it’s not really that soft... > 3.) yes it is > 4.)feline graced nerfed and yet still 300% perma in combat uptime of vigor??? Make it 100% than claim it needs more burst... > 5.)yes bunker staff/staff is a thing in 2v2s with crit strikes valk and daredevil rube or at least I’ve been running it and most ppl I talked to think it’s one of the better 2v2 builds > 6.)just lol you didn’t name a single expert on thief mechanics and they are more trust worthy than my list of completely exploitable issues atm? Wow 1. You can nerf your mark all you want, but you will be back here asking for them to roll it back. I hope they do nerf it. 2. Yes, it does matter. Also, this is a stealth attack, requires you to flank to get the bonus, and to get that high of damage or access to the attack requires and offensive investment. IT IS FINE. 3. Where does it come from? Which pets, because they apparently all have certain rolls they can drop. 4. If you use dodges or weapon evades or utilities to gain 3 seconds of vigor, I really don't see a problem. It does have a cost. Enhanced vigor from a defensive trait line is fine. 5. I wouldn't be surprised. Staff is a poorly designed weapon. 6. @"bluri.2653" is THE thief expert, I think the mention of him was enough. I say @"shadowpass.4236" because he was pointing out the problems with staff thief accurately, and @"mortrialus.3062" because he and his minions or alts can get thief nerfed like no other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > I mean... it has only 1s icd ... it was obvious it would be 100% uptime anyway. But one "berserk main" that do not main thief tried to assure me thief dont have perma vigor. > > You rang? <3 > It's not permanent. I'm not buying the argument that thief evasion exists in some kind of bubble reality where boons dont get ripped and dodges dont get baited. Observed S/d thief fight with someone (necro btw), he had 20-25s of vigor of all times. Not many can strip boons anymore since sigils were removed. _phone call is over_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > Mug can't be spammed even if someone decided to waste it on a clone or a pet. > > > > > > > > Ice Shard Stab was already hotfixed. > > > > > > > > CnD won't be abused because it's slow, clunky, relatively buggy and 5 ini just ain't worth it to spam. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all let me break it down- > > > > > > > using mark on a clone will most likely kill it and refresh mark immediately, this is 100% risk free spammable and can give an insane amount of boons. > > > > > > > Ice shard was hot fixed but guess what tooth stab wasn’t and it deals the same damage ice shard did. > > > > > > > Sword burst was basically untouched besides autos so now u can just use w.e u have- tactical strike sword 3 or 5 and u get away with it > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't nerf a skill that may be abused as a result of other skill usage. Fix mark, don't nerf core. _(also my mark never oneshoted a clone, but I guess it can happen)_ > > > > > > Tooth stab is inaccessible in PvP even on pets, clones and beasts it's a random roll item _(at least I think it's not guaranteed)_, so even if you really happened to get it as stolen item its somewhat of a good reward for wasting your steal in a RNG attempt to get it. > > > > > > Sword burst was never big to begin with, it's not even a burst set, the fact you can use CnD which happens to have higher dmg than its other skills doesn't magically make it bursty, almost all other professions have about two skills on most weapon sets that hit harder than other weapon skills on the same weapon, it's their purpose. It's simply intended to have some weapon skills hit harder than other skills on that weapon, that's why they cost more to use _(or have higher CD, etc.)_. > > > > > > CnD simply never was a dangerous nor spammable skill, I don't deny that you might have a different experience, but in my time I've never seen it be useful for anything than very very very occasional combo with steal and even then it randomly didn't land, anytime some Thief attempted to spam it I just undamaged him without even having to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > Tooth stab is not inaccessible in pvp and 2 hits from that would ko most targets and that’s obviously busted. > > > > > My suggestion to add an icd wouldnt affect core builds at all- just put a 5 sec icd on mug etc. to make sure mark doesn’t abuse it and because 5 secs isn’t enough for daredevil or core to get steal back it wouldn’t impact them. > > > > > And yeah with de ur goona have to spam something with initiative and having a random skill busted is no bueno, but you can disagree it’s w.e > > > > > > > > How do you access tooth stab in PvP? > > > > > > I think he must mean ice shard stab, and it was already fixed. > > > > > > **Ice Shard Stab: Fixed an issue in which the damage increase for this skill was applied in all game modes instead of only PvE.** > > > > No I don’t mean ice shard. Tooth stab also has this bug and was not patched, it is a random roll item from beast etc and it can upper limit of 10k per which is busted and will 2 hit ko ppl. > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > All these resources are abusable! > > > > > > > > 1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing > > > > 2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE > > > > 3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fix > > > > Other stuff of lower but still very high priority > > > > 4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost > > > > 5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative > > > > 6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated > > > > 7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful. > > > > 8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted > > > > > > > > I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty > > > > > > Ill go through the list. > > > > > > 1. if anything needs a cooldown, it would be mark. > > > 2. tactical strike is soft cc, and 7k is very unlikely without plenty of qualifiers, meaning it will never happen in normal play alone even on zerk. > > > 3. Tooth stab is not in pvp, you must mean ice shard stab, and it has already been patched. > > > 4. feline grace got a competitive reduction already to 3 seconds, and acrobatics means less burst from a thief, so less burst should allow for more sustain..... > > > 5. fine nerf those > > > 6. if anything needs a cooldown, it's mark > > > 7. many weapons go untouched because (1) they only do slow well telegraphed damage, (2) they are only afffective under certain conditions and/or (3) they have high initiative cost unjustified to their effects. The idea was not to lower every damage skill across the board, because they WERE NOT...across the board. > > > 8. I don't think you have a real build in mind, but if you do lets see some game play with this eternal intiative busted utility, eternal dodging DE. > > > > > > I have heard that bunker staff is back, and I actually believe that one is possibly true. > > > > > > I would trust the claims of mortrialus, and shadowpass for broken thief stuff before this list above. > > > > > > That and the gameplay from sindrener > > > > > > > > > > 1.)If mark needs a cd to prevent 3 things on that list from being exploited than it’s very exploitable. > > 2.)doesn’t matter if it’s hard to get 7k on tactical strike it’s still about 2000% the damage of other ccs and no it’s not really that soft... > > 3.) yes it is > > 4.)feline graced nerfed and yet still 300% perma in combat uptime of vigor??? Make it 100% than claim it needs more burst... > > 5.)yes bunker staff/staff is a thing in 2v2s with crit strikes valk and daredevil rube or at least I’ve been running it and most ppl I talked to think it’s one of the better 2v2 builds > > 6.)just lol you didn’t name a single expert on thief mechanics and they are more trust worthy than my list of completely exploitable issues atm? Wow > > 1. You can nerf your mark all you want, but you will be back here asking for them to roll it back. I hope they do nerf it. > 2. Yes, it does matter. Also, this is a stealth attack, requires you to flank to get the bonus, and to get that high of damage or access to the attack requires and offensive investment. IT IS FINE. > 3. Where does it come from? Which pets, because they apparently all have certain rolls they can drop. > 4. If you use dodges or weapon evades or utilities to gain 3 seconds of vigor, I really don't see a problem. It does have a cost. Enhanced vigor from a defensive trait line is fine. > 5. I wouldn't be surprised. Staff is a poorly designed weapon. > 6. @"bluri.2653" is THE thief expert, I think the mention of him was enough. I say @"shadowpass.4236" because he was pointing out the problems with staff thief accurately, and @"mortrialus.3062" because he and his minions or alts can get thief nerfed like no other. Again wrong these things aren’t nerfs they are to prevent exploit tooth stab is accessible from every single npcs type in pvp and it can be like 8k base crit damage per that can scale even higher. U named 2 non thief mains and videos of Sindrener which mean nothing to me and no even if I did name Sindrener it is still absolute drivel to think that saying it makes these points, which are accurate, invalid. Like with feline grace u say it has a cost to dodge- this is true but has absolutely nothing to do with how the icd allows for perma vigor again it’s just an invalid arguement at least for disproving these points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > Mug can't be spammed even if someone decided to waste it on a clone or a pet. > > > > > > > > > Ice Shard Stab was already hotfixed. > > > > > > > > > CnD won't be abused because it's slow, clunky, relatively buggy and 5 ini just ain't worth it to spam. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all let me break it down- > > > > > > > > using mark on a clone will most likely kill it and refresh mark immediately, this is 100% risk free spammable and can give an insane amount of boons. > > > > > > > > Ice shard was hot fixed but guess what tooth stab wasn’t and it deals the same damage ice shard did. > > > > > > > > Sword burst was basically untouched besides autos so now u can just use w.e u have- tactical strike sword 3 or 5 and u get away with it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't nerf a skill that may be abused as a result of other skill usage. Fix mark, don't nerf core. _(also my mark never oneshoted a clone, but I guess it can happen)_ > > > > > > > Tooth stab is inaccessible in PvP even on pets, clones and beasts it's a random roll item _(at least I think it's not guaranteed)_, so even if you really happened to get it as stolen item its somewhat of a good reward for wasting your steal in a RNG attempt to get it. > > > > > > > Sword burst was never big to begin with, it's not even a burst set, the fact you can use CnD which happens to have higher dmg than its other skills doesn't magically make it bursty, almost all other professions have about two skills on most weapon sets that hit harder than other weapon skills on the same weapon, it's their purpose. It's simply intended to have some weapon skills hit harder than other skills on that weapon, that's why they cost more to use _(or have higher CD, etc.)_. > > > > > > > CnD simply never was a dangerous nor spammable skill, I don't deny that you might have a different experience, but in my time I've never seen it be useful for anything than very very very occasional combo with steal and even then it randomly didn't land, anytime some Thief attempted to spam it I just undamaged him without even having to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tooth stab is not inaccessible in pvp and 2 hits from that would ko most targets and that’s obviously busted. > > > > > > My suggestion to add an icd wouldnt affect core builds at all- just put a 5 sec icd on mug etc. to make sure mark doesn’t abuse it and because 5 secs isn’t enough for daredevil or core to get steal back it wouldn’t impact them. > > > > > > And yeah with de ur goona have to spam something with initiative and having a random skill busted is no bueno, but you can disagree it’s w.e > > > > > > > > > > How do you access tooth stab in PvP? > > > > > > > > I think he must mean ice shard stab, and it was already fixed. > > > > > > > > **Ice Shard Stab: Fixed an issue in which the damage increase for this skill was applied in all game modes instead of only PvE.** > > > > > > No I don’t mean ice shard. Tooth stab also has this bug and was not patched, it is a random roll item from beast etc and it can upper limit of 10k per which is busted and will 2 hit ko ppl. > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > All these resources are abusable! > > > > > > > > > > 1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing > > > > > 2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE > > > > > 3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fix > > > > > Other stuff of lower but still very high priority > > > > > 4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost > > > > > 5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative > > > > > 6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated > > > > > 7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful. > > > > > 8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted > > > > > > > > > > I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty > > > > > > > > Ill go through the list. > > > > > > > > 1. if anything needs a cooldown, it would be mark. > > > > 2. tactical strike is soft cc, and 7k is very unlikely without plenty of qualifiers, meaning it will never happen in normal play alone even on zerk. > > > > 3. Tooth stab is not in pvp, you must mean ice shard stab, and it has already been patched. > > > > 4. feline grace got a competitive reduction already to 3 seconds, and acrobatics means less burst from a thief, so less burst should allow for more sustain..... > > > > 5. fine nerf those > > > > 6. if anything needs a cooldown, it's mark > > > > 7. many weapons go untouched because (1) they only do slow well telegraphed damage, (2) they are only afffective under certain conditions and/or (3) they have high initiative cost unjustified to their effects. The idea was not to lower every damage skill across the board, because they WERE NOT...across the board. > > > > 8. I don't think you have a real build in mind, but if you do lets see some game play with this eternal intiative busted utility, eternal dodging DE. > > > > > > > > I have heard that bunker staff is back, and I actually believe that one is possibly true. > > > > > > > > I would trust the claims of mortrialus, and shadowpass for broken thief stuff before this list above. > > > > > > > > That and the gameplay from sindrener > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.)If mark needs a cd to prevent 3 things on that list from being exploited than it’s very exploitable. > > > 2.)doesn’t matter if it’s hard to get 7k on tactical strike it’s still about 2000% the damage of other ccs and no it’s not really that soft... > > > 3.) yes it is > > > 4.)feline graced nerfed and yet still 300% perma in combat uptime of vigor??? Make it 100% than claim it needs more burst... > > > 5.)yes bunker staff/staff is a thing in 2v2s with crit strikes valk and daredevil rube or at least I’ve been running it and most ppl I talked to think it’s one of the better 2v2 builds > > > 6.)just lol you didn’t name a single expert on thief mechanics and they are more trust worthy than my list of completely exploitable issues atm? Wow > > > > 1. You can nerf your mark all you want, but you will be back here asking for them to roll it back. I hope they do nerf it. > > 2. Yes, it does matter. Also, this is a stealth attack, requires you to flank to get the bonus, and to get that high of damage or access to the attack requires and offensive investment. IT IS FINE. > > 3. Where does it come from? Which pets, because they apparently all have certain rolls they can drop. > > 4. If you use dodges or weapon evades or utilities to gain 3 seconds of vigor, I really don't see a problem. It does have a cost. Enhanced vigor from a defensive trait line is fine. > > 5. I wouldn't be surprised. Staff is a poorly designed weapon. > > 6. @"bluri.2653" is THE thief expert, I think the mention of him was enough. I say @"shadowpass.4236" because he was pointing out the problems with staff thief accurately, and @"mortrialus.3062" because he and his minions or alts can get thief nerfed like no other. > > Again wrong these things aren’t nerfs they are to prevent exploit tooth stab is accessible from every single npcs type in pvp and it can be like 8k base crit damage per that can scale even higher. > U named 2 non thief mains and videos of Sindrener which mean nothing to me and no even if I did name Sindrener it is still absolute drivel to think that saying it makes these points, which are accurate, invalid. Like with feline grace u say it has a cost to dodge- this is true but has absolutely nothing to do with how the icd allows for perma vigor again it’s just an invalid arguement at least for disproving these points https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stolen_skill/Creature seems only "possible" and probably bugged to drop from black bear pet and lashtail Why is perma vigor on thief a problem? There is no cult of Dan, only one father of thieves. Apply for stepdad position, and get to making cool streams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > Mug can't be spammed even if someone decided to waste it on a clone or a pet. > > > > > > > > > > Ice Shard Stab was already hotfixed. > > > > > > > > > > CnD won't be abused because it's slow, clunky, relatively buggy and 5 ini just ain't worth it to spam. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all let me break it down- > > > > > > > > > using mark on a clone will most likely kill it and refresh mark immediately, this is 100% risk free spammable and can give an insane amount of boons. > > > > > > > > > Ice shard was hot fixed but guess what tooth stab wasn’t and it deals the same damage ice shard did. > > > > > > > > > Sword burst was basically untouched besides autos so now u can just use w.e u have- tactical strike sword 3 or 5 and u get away with it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't nerf a skill that may be abused as a result of other skill usage. Fix mark, don't nerf core. _(also my mark never oneshoted a clone, but I guess it can happen)_ > > > > > > > > Tooth stab is inaccessible in PvP even on pets, clones and beasts it's a random roll item _(at least I think it's not guaranteed)_, so even if you really happened to get it as stolen item its somewhat of a good reward for wasting your steal in a RNG attempt to get it. > > > > > > > > Sword burst was never big to begin with, it's not even a burst set, the fact you can use CnD which happens to have higher dmg than its other skills doesn't magically make it bursty, almost all other professions have about two skills on most weapon sets that hit harder than other weapon skills on the same weapon, it's their purpose. It's simply intended to have some weapon skills hit harder than other skills on that weapon, that's why they cost more to use _(or have higher CD, etc.)_. > > > > > > > > CnD simply never was a dangerous nor spammable skill, I don't deny that you might have a different experience, but in my time I've never seen it be useful for anything than very very very occasional combo with steal and even then it randomly didn't land, anytime some Thief attempted to spam it I just undamaged him without even having to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tooth stab is not inaccessible in pvp and 2 hits from that would ko most targets and that’s obviously busted. > > > > > > > My suggestion to add an icd wouldnt affect core builds at all- just put a 5 sec icd on mug etc. to make sure mark doesn’t abuse it and because 5 secs isn’t enough for daredevil or core to get steal back it wouldn’t impact them. > > > > > > > And yeah with de ur goona have to spam something with initiative and having a random skill busted is no bueno, but you can disagree it’s w.e > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you access tooth stab in PvP? > > > > > > > > > > I think he must mean ice shard stab, and it was already fixed. > > > > > > > > > > **Ice Shard Stab: Fixed an issue in which the damage increase for this skill was applied in all game modes instead of only PvE.** > > > > > > > > No I don’t mean ice shard. Tooth stab also has this bug and was not patched, it is a random roll item from beast etc and it can upper limit of 10k per which is busted and will 2 hit ko ppl. > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > All these resources are abusable! > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing > > > > > > 2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE > > > > > > 3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fix > > > > > > Other stuff of lower but still very high priority > > > > > > 4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost > > > > > > 5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative > > > > > > 6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated > > > > > > 7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful. > > > > > > 8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty > > > > > > > > > > Ill go through the list. > > > > > > > > > > 1. if anything needs a cooldown, it would be mark. > > > > > 2. tactical strike is soft cc, and 7k is very unlikely without plenty of qualifiers, meaning it will never happen in normal play alone even on zerk. > > > > > 3. Tooth stab is not in pvp, you must mean ice shard stab, and it has already been patched. > > > > > 4. feline grace got a competitive reduction already to 3 seconds, and acrobatics means less burst from a thief, so less burst should allow for more sustain..... > > > > > 5. fine nerf those > > > > > 6. if anything needs a cooldown, it's mark > > > > > 7. many weapons go untouched because (1) they only do slow well telegraphed damage, (2) they are only afffective under certain conditions and/or (3) they have high initiative cost unjustified to their effects. The idea was not to lower every damage skill across the board, because they WERE NOT...across the board. > > > > > 8. I don't think you have a real build in mind, but if you do lets see some game play with this eternal intiative busted utility, eternal dodging DE. > > > > > > > > > > I have heard that bunker staff is back, and I actually believe that one is possibly true. > > > > > > > > > > I would trust the claims of mortrialus, and shadowpass for broken thief stuff before this list above. > > > > > > > > > > That and the gameplay from sindrener > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.)If mark needs a cd to prevent 3 things on that list from being exploited than it’s very exploitable. > > > > 2.)doesn’t matter if it’s hard to get 7k on tactical strike it’s still about 2000% the damage of other ccs and no it’s not really that soft... > > > > 3.) yes it is > > > > 4.)feline graced nerfed and yet still 300% perma in combat uptime of vigor??? Make it 100% than claim it needs more burst... > > > > 5.)yes bunker staff/staff is a thing in 2v2s with crit strikes valk and daredevil rube or at least I’ve been running it and most ppl I talked to think it’s one of the better 2v2 builds > > > > 6.)just lol you didn’t name a single expert on thief mechanics and they are more trust worthy than my list of completely exploitable issues atm? Wow > > > > > > 1. You can nerf your mark all you want, but you will be back here asking for them to roll it back. I hope they do nerf it. > > > 2. Yes, it does matter. Also, this is a stealth attack, requires you to flank to get the bonus, and to get that high of damage or access to the attack requires and offensive investment. IT IS FINE. > > > 3. Where does it come from? Which pets, because they apparently all have certain rolls they can drop. > > > 4. If you use dodges or weapon evades or utilities to gain 3 seconds of vigor, I really don't see a problem. It does have a cost. Enhanced vigor from a defensive trait line is fine. > > > 5. I wouldn't be surprised. Staff is a poorly designed weapon. > > > 6. @"bluri.2653" is THE thief expert, I think the mention of him was enough. I say @"shadowpass.4236" because he was pointing out the problems with staff thief accurately, and @"mortrialus.3062" because he and his minions or alts can get thief nerfed like no other. > > > > Again wrong these things aren’t nerfs they are to prevent exploit tooth stab is accessible from every single npcs type in pvp and it can be like 8k base crit damage per that can scale even higher. > > U named 2 non thief mains and videos of Sindrener which mean nothing to me and no even if I did name Sindrener it is still absolute drivel to think that saying it makes these points, which are accurate, invalid. Like with feline grace u say it has a cost to dodge- this is true but has absolutely nothing to do with how the icd allows for perma vigor again it’s just an invalid arguement at least for disproving these points > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stolen_skill/Creature > > seems only "possible" and probably bugged to drop from black bear pet and lashtail > > Why is perma vigor on thief a problem? > > There is no cult of Dan, only one father of thieves. > > Apply for stepdad position, and get to making cool streams > Go test it on golems in pvp as npcs all follow the same rules- it’ll random roll u can get off the top of my head- gunk, tooth stab, feathers, glob and maybe plasma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashada.9436 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes... > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt you play thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I main thief > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason. > > > > > > > Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol > > > > > > > > > > Yet on paper they all are and even some are completely unintended and can have huge impact. So you are proven wrong. > > > > > > > > "on paper" this "on paper" that > > > > You really have no idea what you're talking about, huh? Show me a video of you 'abusing' said mechanics and I'll believe you play Thief lol > > > > > > No I really don’t have to post a video this forum discussion has nothing to do with videos and mentioning so is where you are very very wrong. Facts don’t lie and I don’t have to post a video when u can look up the numbers and calculate these things on your own > > > > So basically you're pulling things out of thin air? Cool, good to know. > > Nah u just saying random stuff. I have an idea why don’t u post a video that proves I don’t play thief think about it is it possible to prove with a video becuz that’s u post rn... 1. That entire reply barely even made sense. 2. If you propose an argument for something then give ample evidence to prove your point, especially when multiple people already pointed out how what you were saying is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes... > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt you play thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I main thief > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason. > > > > > > > > Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet on paper they all are and even some are completely unintended and can have huge impact. So you are proven wrong. > > > > > > > > > > "on paper" this "on paper" that > > > > > You really have no idea what you're talking about, huh? Show me a video of you 'abusing' said mechanics and I'll believe you play Thief lol > > > > > > > > No I really don’t have to post a video this forum discussion has nothing to do with videos and mentioning so is where you are very very wrong. Facts don’t lie and I don’t have to post a video when u can look up the numbers and calculate these things on your own > > > > > > So basically you're pulling things out of thin air? Cool, good to know. > > > > Nah u just saying random stuff. I have an idea why don’t u post a video that proves I don’t play thief think about it is it possible to prove with a video becuz that’s u post rn... > > 1. That entire reply barely even made sense. > 2. If you propose an argument for something then give ample evidence to prove your point, especially when multiple people already pointed out how what you were saying is wrong 1.)u never made arguement 2.) as I recall most post on this thread were good and most ppl who said something was incorrect had completely invalid arguements- such as a short icd will mess up core mechanics when in reality even with swindlers equilibrium there will never be a time you get steal back in less than 5s, and therefore is invalid Again most post were positive until like your random ones and ones with absolutely invalid arguements like saying tooth stab isn’t in pvp, which is wrong. Ben himself said balance recommendations need to be logical. If some idiot comes here sperging and posting random stuff that means absolutely nothing to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashada.9436 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes... > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt you play thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I main thief > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason. > > > > > > > > > Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet on paper they all are and even some are completely unintended and can have huge impact. So you are proven wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > "on paper" this "on paper" that > > > > > > You really have no idea what you're talking about, huh? Show me a video of you 'abusing' said mechanics and I'll believe you play Thief lol > > > > > > > > > > No I really don’t have to post a video this forum discussion has nothing to do with videos and mentioning so is where you are very very wrong. Facts don’t lie and I don’t have to post a video when u can look up the numbers and calculate these things on your own > > > > > > > > So basically you're pulling things out of thin air? Cool, good to know. > > > > > > Nah u just saying random stuff. I have an idea why don’t u post a video that proves I don’t play thief think about it is it possible to prove with a video becuz that’s u post rn... > > > > 1. That entire reply barely even made sense. > > 2. If you propose an argument for something then give ample evidence to prove your point, especially when multiple people already pointed out how what you were saying is wrong > > 1.)u never made arguement > 2.) as I recall most post on this thread were good and most ppl who said something was incorrect had completely invalid arguements- such as a short icd will mess up core mechanics when in reality even with swindlers equilibrium there will never be a time you get steal back in less than 5s, and therefore is invalid > Again most post were positive until like your random ones and ones with absolutely invalid arguements like saying tooth stab isn’t in pvp, which is wrong. > Ben himself said balance recommendations need to be logical. If some idiot comes here sperging and posting random stuff that means absolutely nothing to me... If you fail to see my argument in the last few replies then you’re dense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nashada.9436" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt you play thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I main thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason. > > > > > > > > > > Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet on paper they all are and even some are completely unintended and can have huge impact. So you are proven wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "on paper" this "on paper" that > > > > > > > You really have no idea what you're talking about, huh? Show me a video of you 'abusing' said mechanics and I'll believe you play Thief lol > > > > > > > > > > > > No I really don’t have to post a video this forum discussion has nothing to do with videos and mentioning so is where you are very very wrong. Facts don’t lie and I don’t have to post a video when u can look up the numbers and calculate these things on your own > > > > > > > > > > So basically you're pulling things out of thin air? Cool, good to know. > > > > > > > > Nah u just saying random stuff. I have an idea why don’t u post a video that proves I don’t play thief think about it is it possible to prove with a video becuz that’s u post rn... > > > > > > 1. That entire reply barely even made sense. > > > 2. If you propose an argument for something then give ample evidence to prove your point, especially when multiple people already pointed out how what you were saying is wrong > > > > 1.)u never made arguement > > 2.) as I recall most post on this thread were good and most ppl who said something was incorrect had completely invalid arguements- such as a short icd will mess up core mechanics when in reality even with swindlers equilibrium there will never be a time you get steal back in less than 5s, and therefore is invalid > > Again most post were positive until like your random ones and ones with absolutely invalid arguements like saying tooth stab isn’t in pvp, which is wrong. > > Ben himself said balance recommendations need to be logical. If some idiot comes here sperging and posting random stuff that means absolutely nothing to me... > > If you fail to see my argument in the last few replies then you’re dense. An arguement is your wrong because so and so. U came here and just said you are wrong. Hence why you don’t have an argument or I guess as you claim that you do than you just have an arguement which is invalid, which is pretty silly. In fact most of your post are clearly a joke as you think I need to prove that I play thief and post videos of it to prove that your already invalid arguement is no more than random trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Here's a recommendation lol. I was in unranked literally trolling on DE spamming rifles imobilize and auto, disengage and repeat lol. It was a salt mine and have no doubts why haha. Thief having ini as a resource should never have a 1200 ranged imobilize that it can spam with auto's especially with its disengage potential on top lol. What was the team thinking but it's fun for a some kicks for a short while but gets boring fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Here's a recommendation lol. I was in unranked literally trolling on DE spamming rifles imobilize and auto, disengage and repeat lol. It was a salt mine and have no doubts why haha. Thief having ini as a resource should never have a 1200 ranged imobilize that it can spam with auto's especially with its disengage potential on top lol. What was the team thinking but it's fun for a some kicks for a short while but gets boring fast. My opinion on kneeling rifle 2- with 1 sec immob it was possible to avoid unless binding shadows was used first. Now with 1.5 it’s actually getting harder but they gave a nice dmg nerf and actually kneel in general is kind of weak dmg wise. It’s abit abusable with changes but for real kill potential u might actually need a team mate there unless ur getting some m7 djs off. But yeah that seems pretty borderline rn and does reward spam as they’ll be immobd for the next hit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 People arguing here dont even realise that you dont even want thief nerfed but removed some niche edge case mechanic abuse bullshit that 99% of the players wont even see let alone be capable of doing themselves Spaming F1 on DE to heal off clones and generate gigaboons is stupid. Stealing into beasts/pets to get 10k dmg nuke that was supposed to be in pve is stupid if not even exploiting. etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Here's a recommendation lol. I was in unranked literally trolling on DE spamming rifles imobilize and auto, disengage and repeat lol. It was a salt mine and have no doubts why haha. Thief having ini as a resource should never have a 1200 ranged imobilize that it can spam with auto's especially with its disengage potential on top lol. What was the team thinking but it's fun for a some kicks for a short while but gets boring fast. > > My opinion on kneeling rifle 2- with 1 sec immob it was possible to avoid unless binding shadows was used first. Now with 1.5 it’s actually getting harder but they gave a nice dmg nerf and actually kneel in general is kind of weak dmg wise. It’s abit abusable with changes but for real kill potential u might actually need a team mate there unless ur getting some m7 djs off. But yeah that seems pretty borderline rn and does reward spam as they’ll be immobd for the next hit... It's not very avoidable as they can out last/spam all avoidance methodes and perma imobilize u when ur out of options lol least people seemed not able to avoid it to easy when I was trolling with it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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