WvW is amazing now

[Styles.7469]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > Man there is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread, probably coming from bad servers/guilds/roamers. First of all, nobody cares about roaming balance, wvw balance is for group fights, whether it is 15/30/50+ etc. If you want balance for small scale fights, you can go pvp.

>

>

> Yeah, so much ignorance. BLOBBING IS ALL, ONLY BLOBBERS MATTER

 

First of all, Lol Letoll.

 

Second of all, Stormscar, you're wholly incorrect. Thank you for demonstrating the mindset of a player who does not have a firm grasp of the WvW game mode. sPvP and WvW have never been the same, and some of the best roamers I've ever encountered come from sPvP to WvW -specifically- to roam, either solo, duo, or with their "team". I have done this, and it has helped me become a better player in sPvP and WvW alike. What you regard as, "Nobody cares about roaming balance" equates to a gross misunderstanding on how WvW functions across every server and tier. Did you forget some servers have such huge gaps in their "off hours" that there are sometimes -only- maybe up to ten players active on a given map? You would assume they don't care, now, that the build they've gotten really good at playing, took time to perfect, and enabled themselves the ability to play outmanned is now reduced to and forced to think, "Ok well lemmie peek around this corner safe and snuggled on my run-away mount to see if I have to book it from this one player and veteran guard." instead of the much greater mindset, "Well there's three of them and one AC, and one of me...how should I engage..."

 

That's one player, one map, one server, one tier. Extrapolate that, and please tell me how no one cares about roaming balance, because it is directly tied to these group fights since we're already of the notion that great individual players, working together, make the best groups on the large scale fights. What you said was honestly one of the dumbest things I've seen said, and I'm disappointed there are even people who still think like that about a game mode that's taking the longest time to die in all of eternity.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> Ganking is far too prevalent

 

No, it's not. It's a part of wvw just as zergs are and I'd argue roaming is far more insteresting than spamming circles on enemy blobs.

 

>the game seems to be 99% thieves (I know it's not but it feels that way)

 

What do you mean "it feels that way"? It's not even close and I actually see a fairly even spread between the classes.

 

>and ubiquitous CC spammage and then death. World of Stuncraft. Bleh horrible, cya next patch.

 

Bye.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > Man there is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread, probably coming from bad servers/guilds/roamers. First of all, nobody cares about roaming balance, wvw balance is for group fights, whether it is 15/30/50+ etc. If you want balance for small scale fights, you can go pvp.

>

>

> Yeah, so much ignorance. BLOBBING IS ALL, ONLY BLOBBERS MATTER

 

Reason we are in the age of burn bursts... blob gameplay...

 

Duno how Anet will balance fire spam on blob, or even if they will touch on it..

Not even resistance will save a mallyx rev when i pull 25 stacks and resistance gets removed...lol

[Stormscar.5489]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > Man there is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread, probably coming from bad servers/guilds/roamers. First of all, nobody cares about roaming balance, wvw balance is for group fights, whether it is 15/30/50+ etc. If you want balance for small scale fights, you can go pvp.

>

>

> Yeah, so much ignorance. BLOBBING IS ALL, ONLY BLOBBERS MATTER

 

Yes, group fights is all that matters in a game mode designed around large scale group fights (btw, you count 15 and 30 as blobbing?) Again, if you want small scale fights, go play pvp. Roamers are often players who are just bad to play pvp and they dont want to have their low skill exposed as objective low by a rated system.

[Stormscar.5489]

> First of all, Lol Letoll.

>

> Second of all, Stormscar, you're wholly incorrect. Thank you for demonstrating the mindset of a player who does not have a firm grasp of the WvW game mode. sPvP and WvW have never been the same, and some of the best roamers I've ever encountered come from sPvP to WvW -specifically- to roam, either solo, duo, or with their "team". I have done this, and it has helped me become a better player in sPvP and WvW alike. What you regard as, "Nobody cares about roaming balance" equates to a gross misunderstanding on how WvW functions across every server and tier. Did you forget some servers have such huge gaps in their "off hours" that there are sometimes -only- maybe up to ten players active on a given map? You would assume they don't care, now, that the build they've gotten really good at playing, took time to perfect, and enabled themselves the ability to play outmanned is now reduced to and forced to think, "Ok well lemmie peek around this corner safe and snuggled on my run-away mount to see if I have to book it from this one player and veteran guard." instead of the much greater mindset, "Well there's three of them and one AC, and one of me...how should I engage..."

>

> That's one player, one map, one server, one tier. Extrapolate that, and please tell me how no one cares about roaming balance, because it is directly tied to these group fights since we're already of the notion that great individual players, working together, make the best groups on the large scale fights. What you said was honestly one of the dumbest things I've seen said, and I'm disappointed there are even people who still think like that about a game mode that's taking the longest time to die in all of eternity.

 

I know PvPers who like to roam to, i dont know how that is an argument. Yeah, people come to WvW to roam. So? Some people come to wvw to ktrain late at nights and ppt, hit doors or man siege all the time without any intention of fighting players. Should the game mode be catered to those players if they have such a goal when playing wvw? No, the gamemode should be designed around what it is: large scale fights which are not represented in other game modes. Yeah, I should've explicitly said 'nobody RELEVANT cares about roaming balance'.

 

It is irrelevant that servers have off-hours where there are few people playing. The game should not be designed around playing at 3 AM. I'm aware that good individual players make the strongest groups, I'm also currently in a wvw guild that has a lot of PvP players. However, I haven't heard any of them complain about roaming balance. Why? Because if they want well balanced small scale fights, they play pvp. Roamers mostly are people with over inflated egos who dont want a reality check from have their skill objectively assessed. Most of those 'OMG 1v5 MONTAGE' comes from fighting terrible players (which gw2 has plenty of). You don't pull those plays often at all vs equally skilled players. And where can you most often get matched vs equally skilled players? In pvp.

 

The gamemode is dieing not because there is no roaming balance or not enough roamers. It is dieing because guilds have disbanded and veteran players have been leaving the game over the years after the initial influx of players who specifically bought GW2 for WvW in 2012-2013, when you had queues on all maps and players on voice almost all the time, even at off-peak hours. With design choices and lack of support, those players left and were replaced by the low-skilled gw2 players that ANet caters towards to, who dont want to put effort or learn the game.

[Stormscar.5489]

> Duno how Anet will balance fire spam on blob, or even if they will touch on it..

> Not even resistance will save a mallyx rev when i pull 25 stacks and resistance gets removed...lol

 

It's already fixed, it's called scrapper.

 

[eXruina.4956]

WvW is amazing indeed:

 

- reduce power damage because punching through 3k armor, high protection + aegis uptime, and class mechanics was not enough.

- further reduce power scaling of certain classes' skills because blanket nerfing power coefficients wasn't enough.

- remove power damage from CC skills, so only condi builds can really benefit from it 1:1 against a power build.

- nerf condi cleanse because they need a nail on the coffin.

 

Good job balance team, you've outdone yourselves.. >___~7"7

[msalakka.4653]

> @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> Man there is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread, probably coming from bad servers/guilds/roamers. First of all, nobody cares about roaming balance, wvw balance is for group fights, whether it is 15/30/50+ etc. If you want balance for small scale fights, you can go pvp.

 

So Power Mirage had to be killed off because it was over-represented in zergs? o.O

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"eXruina.4956" said:

> WvW is amazing indeed:

>

> - reduce power damage because punching through 3k armor, high protection + aegis uptime, and class mechanics was not enough.

> - further reduce power scaling of certain classes' skills because blanket nerfing power coefficients wasn't enough.

> - remove power damage from CC skills, so only condi builds can really benefit from it 1:1 against a power build.

> - nerf condi cleanse because they need a nail on the coffin.

>

> Good job balance team, you've outdone yourselves.. >___~7"7

Too bad its still the same old meta.

 

Yesterday we where running a 4 man, roaming DBL. We met a 3 man guild. Thief, ele, rev. The rev in particular was full kitten condi literally vomitting out torment. A real gank party. It was a *hard* fight the times we engaged each other, it was intense with lots of hairy moments. We could just barely win 4v3. If they stealth ambushed us we had 2 downs in seconds and lost the fight. They knew what they where playing and was decent at it. We still won most of the time when we faced them head on.

 

Then a while later, we met another 3 man guild lazily running into the lord of a keep, we tagged the last member and tried to kill them... and they just stacked on top of each other. All melee. All power. Heal scrapper. Heal firebrand. Hammer warrior. They where *terrible* fighters 1v1, but they could focus one of us with complete lockdowns. We couldnt beat them as they just downed us one by one and facetanked all the damage with their two meta healers while the warrior did the damage and cc.

 

[Junkpile.7439]

They could do something about this support and boon share kitten.

[Styles.7469]

> @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > First of all, Lol Letoll.

> >

> > Second of all, Stormscar, you're wholly incorrect. Thank you for demonstrating the mindset of a player who does not have a firm grasp of the WvW game mode. sPvP and WvW have never been the same, and some of the best roamers I've ever encountered come from sPvP to WvW -specifically- to roam, either solo, duo, or with their "team". I have done this, and it has helped me become a better player in sPvP and WvW alike. What you regard as, "Nobody cares about roaming balance" equates to a gross misunderstanding on how WvW functions across every server and tier. Did you forget some servers have such huge gaps in their "off hours" that there are sometimes -only- maybe up to ten players active on a given map? You would assume they don't care, now, that the build they've gotten really good at playing, took time to perfect, and enabled themselves the ability to play outmanned is now reduced to and forced to think, "Ok well lemmie peek around this corner safe and snuggled on my run-away mount to see if I have to book it from this one player and veteran guard." instead of the much greater mindset, "Well there's three of them and one AC, and one of me...how should I engage..."

> >

> > That's one player, one map, one server, one tier. Extrapolate that, and please tell me how no one cares about roaming balance, because it is directly tied to these group fights since we're already of the notion that great individual players, working together, make the best groups on the large scale fights. What you said was honestly one of the dumbest things I've seen said, and I'm disappointed there are even people who still think like that about a game mode that's taking the longest time to die in all of eternity.

>

> I know PvPers who like to roam to, i dont know how that is an argument. Yeah, people come to WvW to roam. So? Some people come to wvw to ktrain late at nights and ppt, hit doors or man siege all the time without any intention of fighting players. Should the game mode be catered to those players if they have such a goal when playing wvw? No, the gamemode should be designed around what it is: large scale fights which are not represented in other game modes. Yeah, I should've explicitly said 'nobody RELEVANT cares about roaming balance'.

>

> It is irrelevant that servers have off-hours where there are few people playing. The game should not be designed around playing at 3 AM. I'm aware that good individual players make the strongest groups, I'm also currently in a wvw guild that has a lot of PvP players. However, I haven't heard any of them complain about roaming balance. Why? Because if they want well balanced small scale fights, they play pvp. Roamers mostly are people with over inflated egos who dont want a reality check from have their skill objectively assessed. Most of those 'OMG 1v5 MONTAGE' comes from fighting terrible players (which gw2 has plenty of). You don't pull those plays often at all vs equally skilled players. And where can you most often get matched vs equally skilled players? In pvp.

>

> The gamemode is dieing not because there is no roaming balance or not enough roamers. It is dieing because guilds have disbanded and veteran players have been leaving the game over the years after the initial influx of players who specifically bought GW2 for WvW in 2012-2013, when you had queues on all maps and players on voice almost all the time, even at off-peak hours. With design choices and lack of support, those players left and were replaced by the low-skilled gw2 players that ANet caters towards to, who dont want to put effort or learn the game.

 

Everything in your first paragraph except the last line can be disregarded because you clearly missed the -entire- point. To address the final line in your first paragraph; Relevant people is entirely subjective. You're irrelevant to me, but your guild mates (if any) may say you're relevant to them. You fell flat on that, and that was not the point you were making initially, but I see what you're trying to do.

 

As for your second paragraph. Lol...ok. So now instead of addressing the massive gaps in your logic you're going to circumvent the process and specify conditions to make your side of the argument correct, so it doesn't look like what you said was stupid. You're basing what you say on what, exactly? There doesn't even seem to be any empirical evidence present, or really anything that supports your position other than some weird, terribly askew opinion based on how you feel about roamers versus your own ego. Again, fell flat, so that's two strikes at least. =/

 

Finally, for your third paragraph, thank you for mostly stating the obvious. It has been proven time and time again that our voice does not matter as much as we want it to when it comes to WvW. We already know why we think the game mode is dying and we're addressing root causes, hence the posts on this thread contrasting why some of us think this most recent "balance" patch is more bad than good. But it's like beating a dead horse, and you just have to deal with the fact that some of us want to bitch and complain to blow off steam in the off chance someone of relevance actually takes note of our useful advice.

 

You're mostly agreeing with what I was saying at the end, which is good for you because it means you're learning.

[Rod.6581]

WvW is not amazing and still has many of the issues it always had.

You make like skill balance, but that is not everything that makes WvW and certainly doesn't fix all those issues.

[Stormscar.5489]

> Everything in your first paragraph except the last line can be disregarded because you clearly missed the -entire- point. To address the final line in your first paragraph; Relevant people is entirely subjective. You're irrelevant to me, but your guild mates (if any) may say you're relevant to them. You fell flat on that, and that was not the point you were making initially, but I see what you're trying to do.

 

How exactly do I miss the point? You stated that 'lots' of people come to wvw to roam. I stated that those people are not relevant to making a point about how wvw should be balanced.

 

> As for your second paragraph. Lol...ok. So now instead of addressing the massive gaps in your logic you're going to circumvent the process and specify conditions to make your side of the argument correct, so it doesn't look like what you said was stupid. You're basing what you say on what, exactly? There doesn't even seem to be any empirical evidence present, or really anything that supports your position other than some weird, terribly askew opinion based on how you feel about roamers versus your own ego. Again, fell flat, so that's two strikes at least. =/

 

This is just a lot of empty words that say nothing and do not address my second paragraph. Also, since when do you have to present empirical evidence like a fucking study to present an argument on forums? Also, you didn't present any empirical evidence yourself in the first place. So I don't know why the burden rests on me to do so. I presented an argument about queues and how many more people were playing organised back in 2012-2013. When there were many more guilds and commanders around. Its not alive when/if there's just roamers playing solo/in very small groups clowning around and not interacting with other people just like in open world. But we're playing a mmo btw /s

 

> Finally, for your third paragraph, thank you for mostly stating the obvious. It has been proven time and time again that our voice does not matter as much as we want it to when it comes to WvW. We already know why we think the game mode is dying and we're addressing root causes, hence the posts on this thread contrasting why some of us think this most recent "balance" patch is more bad than good. But it's like beating a dead horse, and you just have to deal with the fact that some of us want to kitten and complain to blow off steam in the off chance someone of relevance actually takes note of our useful advice.

 

Why you think the gamemode is dieing is wrong, and this is the point of my post. Your whole argument starts from the wrong premise, that WvW is dieing because roaming is not supported enough (in this case, through balance). However, roaming in the first place is a very minor part of WvW that shouldn't be even given attention until the main focus of the gamemode (large scale fights) is addressed.

 

> You're mostly agreeing with what I was saying at the end, which is good for you because it means you're learning.

 

Yeah, we just happen to agree on my final point for different reasons

[Styles.7469]

> @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > Everything in your first paragraph except the last line can be disregarded because you clearly missed the -entire- point. To address the final line in your first paragraph; Relevant people is entirely subjective. You're irrelevant to me, but your guild mates (if any) may say you're relevant to them. You fell flat on that, and that was not the point you were making initially, but I see what you're trying to do.

>

> How exactly do I miss the point? You stated that 'lots' of people come to wvw to roam. I stated that those people are not relevant to making a point about how wvw should be balanced.

>

> > As for your second paragraph. Lol...ok. So now instead of addressing the massive gaps in your logic you're going to circumvent the process and specify conditions to make your side of the argument correct, so it doesn't look like what you said was stupid. You're basing what you say on what, exactly? There doesn't even seem to be any empirical evidence present, or really anything that supports your position other than some weird, terribly askew opinion based on how you feel about roamers versus your own ego. Again, fell flat, so that's two strikes at least. =/

>

> This is just a lot of empty words that say nothing and do not address my second paragraph. Also, since when do you have to present empirical evidence like a kitten study to present an argument on forums? Also, you didn't present any empirical evidence yourself in the first place. So I don't know why the burden rests on me to do so. I presented an argument about queues and how many more people were playing organised back in 2012-2013. When there were many more guilds and commanders around. Its not alive when/if there's just roamers playing solo/in very small groups clowning around and not interacting with other people just like in open world. But we're playing a mmo btw /s

>

> > Finally, for your third paragraph, thank you for mostly stating the obvious. It has been proven time and time again that our voice does not matter as much as we want it to when it comes to WvW. We already know why we think the game mode is dying and we're addressing root causes, hence the posts on this thread contrasting why some of us think this most recent "balance" patch is more bad than good. But it's like beating a dead horse, and you just have to deal with the fact that some of us want to kitten and complain to blow off steam in the off chance someone of relevance actually takes note of our useful advice.

>

> Why you think the gamemode is dieing is wrong, and this is the point of my post. Your whole argument starts from the wrong premise, that WvW is dieing because roaming is not supported enough (in this case, through balance). However, roaming in the first place is a very minor part of WvW that shouldn't be even given attention until the main focus of the gamemode (large scale fights) is addressed.

>

> > You're mostly agreeing with what I was saying at the end, which is good for you because it means you're learning.

>

> Yeah, we just happen to agree on my final point for different reasons

 

Bruh...you're deeeeeense asf. xD

 

The only thing you've done is assert your "point/s" without actually doing anything to support them. It's just a bunch of "WvW has to be played this because I said this is what it's for.", and, "If it's not played the way I say then it's not being played right!". It's circular logic at its very best, and that's reaching. There is no evidence in your posts that provides support for your side or refutes what I am saying.

 

There are a lot of people that -do- come to WvW to roam which comprise the huge groups you say are the only part WvW is good for, and that makes them relevant to the overall balance because they're part of the population. WvW is not -only- about "large scale" fights, and is not just for large scale fights however. If you want to be technical, WvW is a conquest based game mode with PvP/PvE elements that allow several dozen players the opportunity to engage. Literally nowhere in its description does it say we should only fight large scale, or that it is for large scale only fights. Just because that's what you want it to be doesn't mean that is what it's for. Stop cherry picking, its unbecoming.

 

Example: You take away the roamers, and people who like to roam, from these big fights you say are the only thing WvW is about, and the guilds which comprise these fights, and you then you end up minimizing the player population to a portion of players who only fight in large groups. Soon enough you can't have large scale fights, because then there may not even be enough players on a map to accomplish these ridiculous terms you're suggesting WvW only exists for. How can you actually not see that? What you suggested excludes -anyone- who roams, or engages in small scale skirmishes, from having a voice in how they feel the game should or could be balanced, and that only players like you, or even only you, should have a say in the way the game mode is operated. That is fundamentally wrong. So no, I didn't miss your point, you just completely and utterly failed to refute me or mine.

 

Please read and interpret the rest of my posts as intended because if you can't do that then there is no need to continue, and you're just going to keep going to desperately get the last word in. What you're insinuating is that only...certain, special people are relevant, which proportionately equates to a small collective, which excludes the ability to make this about large scale fights. You have no foundation on who those people are, nor provided criteria to be met which makes them relevant, other than some conspiratorial criteria based on who they are because you may or may not like their youtube channel, or something to that effect, lol. That's the vibe I get off you. So that precedent can be dismissed. I encompassed a very well-established plurality of players, without dismissing the whole population, whom enjoy roaming in WvW and were/are negatively impacted by the most recent patch.

 

The fact that what you thought I said about addressing your second paragraph as 'empty words' really just gives me greater insight as to how dense you are. I mean seriously, stop struggling so much, you're just going to drown faster. =/ You clearly don't understand the most rudimentary functions of debate, so again I guess you're just going to try and circumvent the process of an argument? I can't tell, just seems like you're rambling in your struggle to grasp a point you never made or one I made that you clearly don't understand. WvW should and can be balanced off of the entire player population, which includes roamers since you seem stuck on that premise (though you interpreted my point incorrectly). Unfortunately for your entire stance, roamers matter. If you think otherwise, you have to provide a reason why, but you can't because your argument right now is, "Roamers don't matter because I think they shouldn't because large scale fights are all this is about". Everything you're trying to present as fact is/was purely situational, and based on askew exacting standards regarding how you feel the game must be played, even versus a readily available descriptor, which I wouldn't be surprised if you took some meanings out of context (see also;cherry picking).

 

So again, lol...ok.

 

Please provide any reason why I think the game mode dying is wrong, because at this point I don't think you have fully grasped the meaning of why WvW is actually losing its player population and why fewer and fewer players are present. Whole guilds have left because of the introduction of mounts into WvW (that's a whole different gripe) so you're actually telling me this most recent patch, dedicated to down-toning skills and damages, and skill, isn't having an impact on groups as well as roamers? That's just two examples from me, there are a plethora of other reason i didn't address because I didn't think it was necessary to state the complete and utter obviousness. You literally can't offhandedly agree with me and then tell me I'm wrong, LOL!!!! My premise clearly encompasses that I believe this patch is doing, has done, and may continue to do more harm than good and that the base population is going to a.) accept it because they don't know any better (like you) or b.) going to accept it because there isn't a way to improve it and they must accept the lesser of two evils.

 

I never suggested the sole reason that WvW is dying because "roaming balance" isn't supported. I actually, truly cannot see how you thought that is where I was going with this. Like...seriously, how you picked -THAT- out of everything I said as the one and only reason genuinely blows my mind...that's truly a disappointment.

 

Finally, you are incorrect. You agreed with me because twas I who made the point in the first place (not like it hasn't been said repeatedly). The main difference is the reasons I think WvW is dying are tangible. You mostly want to believe it's dying for reasons to spite me because you're too thick to come up with a way to reasonably excuse why several of us on this thread thought what you said was stupid. You're grasping at straws and trying to ride my coat tails to make yourself look better, but it isn't actually achieving the effect you wanted. You're dense and what you said was stupid, so I suggest you should own up to it and learn.

 

 

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Timelord.8190" said:

> This patch hasn't brought balance to the different classes.

 

For the hundredth time, it wasn't supposed to....

 

Please understand, WvW and PvP are in a BETA state right now - unfinished, imbalanced, and very much a work in progress. The sooner people understand this, the better it will be for them.

 

I honestly thought we'd see more changes by now (apart from what we saw in sPvP), but I'm sure they are coming.

 

ANET needs the feedback, so talk about what you are experiencing. But please stop getting yourselves agitated over how the game isn't balanced, your class is bad, their class is OP, etc etc etc, because ANET isn't finished yet - we're only in Phase 1.

 

[Svhenja.3197]

It's the worse Wvw right now, i dare to say it, even worse than the first months when people were mashing their heads against gates.

Why? A meta crowded to it's root with condi and Bunker builds, it's not even fun anymore, fights are endless or ended in a matter of seconds.

 

These pvp changes could be good for the Spvp, i don't play it so i can't share my opinion about it, but as far as wvw it's bad.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > > Man there is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread, probably coming from bad servers/guilds/roamers. First of all, nobody cares about roaming balance, wvw balance is for group fights, whether it is 15/30/50+ etc. If you want balance for small scale fights, you can go pvp.

> >

> >

> > Yeah, so much ignorance. BLOBBING IS ALL, ONLY BLOBBERS MATTER

>

> Yes, group fights is all that matters in a game mode designed around large scale group fights (btw, you count 15 and 30 as blobbing?)

 

I count any group exploiting the 5 target aoe cap as blobbing, the REAL stale meta in this game. When the next game finally comes along with proper unlimited AoE, blobbers will remember they normalized an engine limitation and passed it off as good tictacs. The game isn't "designed around large group fights" as you think of it at all, it was designed to have lots of small fights happening all over the maps.

 

The whole 15-30 is a player made fabrication. You've never received the slightest confirmation from Anet dispute 7 years of lobbying. Add to that the lag those big fights induce and it's amazing that anyone could not only present that way of playing as best, but _ONLY_?? Lol get ye gone

[Shroud.2307]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > > > Man there is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread, probably coming from bad servers/guilds/roamers. First of all, nobody cares about roaming balance, wvw balance is for group fights, whether it is 15/30/50+ etc. If you want balance for small scale fights, you can go pvp.

> > >

> > >

> > > Yeah, so much ignorance. BLOBBING IS ALL, ONLY BLOBBERS MATTER

> >

> > Yes, group fights is all that matters in a game mode designed around large scale group fights (btw, you count 15 and 30 as blobbing?)

>

> I count any group exploiting the 5 target aoe cap as blobbing, the REAL stale meta in this game. When the next game finally comes along with proper unlimited AoE, blobbers will remember they normalized an engine limitation and passed it off as good tictacs. The game isn't "designed around large group fights" as you think of it at all, it was designed to have lots of small fights happening all over the maps.

>

> The whole 15-30 is a player made fabrication. You've never received the slightest confirmation from Anet dispute 7 years of lobbying. Add to that the lag those big fights induce and it's amazing that anyone could not only present that way of playing as best, but _ONLY_?? Lol get ye gone

 

You make some good points I hadn't considered before. Though I do think ANet makes a lot of their WvW related balance decisions based on large scale fights, I also think saying people are "exploiting" 5 target caps is a good way to put it. In a similar manner to stacking in dungeons, I don't think it's something that was intended so much as it is something that players normalized and ANet cannot work around without creating server-wide issues.

 

Chaotic fights with players working together yet as individuals ( a cloud ) are what I find most exciting and one the main reasons I've been a Maguuman for so long. Few things seem more mindless to me than giant deathballs all acting as a cog under the decisions of a single player. I'm not saying there can't be skill/thought behind it or that it's never enjoyable, just that I find mutual co-operation more exciting than obeying commands.

 

I could only imagine how fast small groups with intelligent players would take over if AOE caps were removed and the game could handle it.

[Nikola.3841]

WvW is not designed to promote any kind of competitiveness....even in T1 tier most of players are not interested in competing,

but in crushing enemy any way possible. Also, Anet didn't care to develop any kind of digital carrot to improve on such behavior

 

IMHO, thats far bigger problem than if some OP-ed skill hits for 5k or 6k

[LetoII.3782]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > > > > Man there is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread, probably coming from bad servers/guilds/roamers. First of all, nobody cares about roaming balance, wvw balance is for group fights, whether it is 15/30/50+ etc. If you want balance for small scale fights, you can go pvp.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, so much ignorance. BLOBBING IS ALL, ONLY BLOBBERS MATTER

> > >

> > > Yes, group fights is all that matters in a game mode designed around large scale group fights (btw, you count 15 and 30 as blobbing?)

> >

> > I count any group exploiting the 5 target aoe cap as blobbing, the REAL stale meta in this game. When the next game finally comes along with proper unlimited AoE, blobbers will remember they normalized an engine limitation and passed it off as good tictacs. The game isn't "designed around large group fights" as you think of it at all, it was designed to have lots of small fights happening all over the maps.

> >

> > The whole 15-30 is a player made fabrication. You've never received the slightest confirmation from Anet dispute 7 years of lobbying. Add to that the lag those big fights induce and it's amazing that anyone could not only present that way of playing as best, but _ONLY_?? Lol get ye gone

>

> You make some good points I hadn't considered before. Though I do think ANet makes a lot of their WvW related balance decisions based on large scale fights, I also think saying people are "exploiting" 5 target caps is a good way to put it.

 

It was figured out very early on, AoE healing wasnt capped at first. So a smart group could just stand in a big clump and be immortal. It'd get extra silly when two groups stood right next to each other. Then Red Guard showed up with a way to make it mobile.. Every group since has been aping them whether they realized it or not.

 

But it's a lot of work and not especially fun. Which is why they always peter out after a few months.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> Which is why they always peter out after a few months.

Queue mandatory **8 years later** in french accent.

 

 

[Rodrick.1942]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"Styles.7469" said:

> > Large scale is all anyone is willing to run now, because for some reason we were told doing less of everything and taking more time to even engage is more exciting and rewarding (what rewards?) than how we've been used to playing for the past several years. There are alot of genuinely good players that took a lot of time and put more effort into working on their builds and playing skillfully than most people have put hours into getting good at understanding basic mechanics for PvE. Conditions are now at their absolute worst, when clearly the non-casual, actual WvW players have been strongly suggesting that they are and have always been a problem since the terribly executed 25-stack cap removal. Now that Power is down and some skills are literally only doing 10-20 damage, you straight up cannot run certain weapons or traits because they are wholly ineffectual versus ANY class, build, or player.

> >

> > The meta is entirely different because now all you have to do is walk into a giant blob and walk out of it and pulse conditions, with 30+ people around you. Less damage...who actually wants to do less damage? Push a little, pull all the way out, push a little, pull all the way out...yeah...so fun and engaging, makes for great gameplay =/

> >

> > Good players are to be punished for playing smart, playing well, and having a good build? Seems stupid to me. =/ All these trash players keep getting rewarded for playing terribly, and that's a clear issue which doesn't seem to get addressed as often as it needs to; inclusivity is not the way to keep a dying player population by force feeding us some weird, pointless "balance" patch. We've voiced what we want, and what we may need. Where was this community driven vote or poll that even suggested we needed that? Oh...wait...those don't matter either, projects move forward and are only announced when it is decided for us and nearly finished before they even release the polls.

> >

> > Why less sustain and nerfed heals? A lot of nerds saying you shouldn't be able to do massive damage and also sustain...ok...ever stop to think maybe that player is actually just better than you? I know it's a hard concept to swallow, but it's the truth, there are players better than you that are just going to beat you every time. People driven by the desire to roam solo or 2v2 took a massive hit. You don't have to play skillfully anymore, you just have to get lucky now. Playing skillfully means pressing 1 for the most damage and who can stack the most conditions fastest.

> >

> > Boons...yeah. Lets counterplay the counterplayable counterplays. Stability is still useless in WvW ever since it was changed over to what it is now.

> >

> > There is practically no build diversity. At this point why not just force us to use the same trash amulets sPvP has? Because force changing the way we have to play is doing almost the same thing? At least then we'll know what to expect from the game mode that has gotten the least amount of attention overall, but somehow has been told we need these changes the most (hmm...)

> >

> > If group A has three bricks, and Group B has one brick, and you cut ALL bricks in half, Group A still has three times as many bricks as Group B...so where is this "balance" coming from when things still very clearly favor mindless, skill-less blobbing? There are so few groups now that can actually contest double their numbers...this is honestly the most disappointing patch that's been released, and a lot of people are fooling themselves into thinking it's good because they either don't know any better or they're just too willing to accept the lesser of two evils. Frankly this game isn't much worth playing anymore, and that's a huge disappointment because for like seven years now on multiple posts we've been told they're laying the foundation for something greater in the future.

> >

> > Still waiting...=/

>

> I kind of agree in some ways, but disagree in other ways.

>

> I don't blob or zerg. Only sometimes for wxp. I just roam solo and with friends.

>

> So far, because of real life, I haven't gotten to play with my friends yet. But from what I've experienced solo so far is this:

>

> Now, playing a full dps version of my build seems like a good idea as people not having passives to save them means I can outplay them for just 1 or 2 weapon rotation and they will be dead, whereas before it would usually take longer.

> But on the other hand, say I was fighting 1v1, and another enemy joins in. Now it's a little bit harder to pull off, as my options are limited. I have LESS overall skills to use (like your brick analogy), and so do they.

>

> But because I'm outnumbered and have already used some of my cooldowns to down the first guy, I now have less options of making a comeback at the 2nd guy, because I have less skills to use.

> Before, because I am in this example better than both of them, I could outplay the 2nd guy right away as I had more skills available and I'm better at using them, than my enemies are (who also had more skills).

>

> EDIT:

>

> Ofc when the first guy goes down, it is now easier to burst and kill the person trying to res. That is very true. BUT, what you will see is people's strategy will change from going for the res since they can get carried by passives, to just going straight for YOU instead since your skill bar is full of cooldowns.

>

> So it's bad and good.

> 1 guy will go down much faster/easier than before (obvious outliers are necros and FB's cus they are just broken rn), but generally fighting outnumbered vs more players is harder as even tho you're better than them, you have less options after the nerfs.

>

>

 

The side who have more people will win the fight, that's all.

[JTGuevara.9018]

It's pretty good! I definitely enjoy wvw more now than the past few years. Fights last longer, they're more engaging and there a lot of builds being played. Yeah, it definitely is condi heavy, but I'd rather have that than the condi PLUS support squads that were near invincible.

[primatos.5413]

Balance became slightly better ... still enough can cer out there... and the one thing the anet clowns won't ever fix is foo king population balance... server links are a complete joke. So... still quite unhealthy state the wvw part is in. not impressed so far sorry.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > Which is why they always peter out after a few months.

> Queue mandatory **8 years later** in french accent.

>

>

 

Pfft I can think of 2 blob guilds from launch, and they've taken breaks. A lot of groups are a remix of the same people, yes. But with breaks significant enough per individual that the old guild is dissolved as remnants of multiple guilds coalesce.