WvW feels boring now

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

I used to play WvW a lot but after the patch it just doesn't feel the same anymore. Trying to down people feels like running on sand even when specced as glassy as possible. Even prior to patch some bunker builds were almost impossible to kill. Not to mention all of this has further skewed the balance in favour of the larger zerg.

 

These changes should have been PvP only.

[RedShark.9548]

Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

[MELORD.5013]

is it so hard to adapt ?

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"MELORD.5013" said:

> is it so hard to adapt ?

 

Testing both large and small scale, small scale feels more off balance now so far. More testing required.

[ens.9854]

True. Seems to be all about focusing targets/cycling cc now rather than 1 player bursting somebody to downstate and the team cleaving. It's less fun but possibly? better for teamwork. It becomes quite tedious if squads battleship well. And then a few supports can make a small fight last an hour.

[Jski.6180]

Classes who already where tankly just simply become more tankly after this update. They need to re-balance base hp / def for all classes to be the same in wvw at least. It would go a long way to making the game less boring because of some classes simply getting free Attribute.

[bigo.9037]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

 

Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

 

People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

 

Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

The argument is stupid.

 

Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

 

Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

>

> Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

>

> People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

>

> Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

> The argument is stupid.

>

> Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

>

> Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

 

Because you, like many many many other GW2 players, just do not understand what happened with that last patch.

 

ANET didn't introduce a balancing patch. The game is currently not balanced, nor was that the intention. ANET did a massive reset of abilities, CDs, etc, across the board. They nerf bombed Tyria from orbit (it was the only way to be sure).

 

Now with a baseline set, anything that is mechanically over or under performing will stand out, and ANET can decide what needs to be done. But the current game isn't in a balanced state, so you need to stop acting like something is wrong.

 

Try to imagine The Joker is behind competitive balancing right now, and what you're currently seeing is the entire world burning.

 

How long it takes ANET to get things to a balanced state remains to be seen. They claim they will respond rapidly, and they did with issues like the Super-Fast-Golems and Ranger pets. But just how optimized they have become on 'laying the groundwork' is any persons guess.

 

 

[Shroud.2307]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

>

> Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

>

> People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

>

> Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

> The argument is stupid.

>

> Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

>

> Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

 

 

Mirage, Soulbeast, Holosmith and all the other strong roaming specs were nerfed because they were effecting small scale negatively. They were/are capable of getting in and out fast enough and dealing enough damage to down and secure kills on player(s) even when under a lot of pressure from others. They all ( meta roamers ) also have extremely high mobility and durability/defensive options that allows certain builds to become near impossible to punish if they only ever poke and play passively never actually committing to the fight.

 

It isn't about 1 v 1, it's about how some of these things are so efficient at exploiting combat in their favor that they're able to choose when a fight happens and where it ends. Good luck pinning down a boonbeast, Mirage or Prot Holo that doesn't want to fight you. Holo may be to a lesser extent than the former but the point is that they all have too much of everything.

 

1 v 1 means nothing in WvW. It is an aspect of it, it is not a point of balance nor something that has any effect worth mentioning on the overall score. If something is OP in 1 v 1's it does not necessarily mean it is OP in small/large scale. Eg. Eternal Life Necro; almost impossible to kill in a 1 v1, useless in a team fight because it does no damage and has no presence.

[bigo.9037]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

> >

> > Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

> >

> > People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

> >

> > Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

> > The argument is stupid.

> >

> > Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

> >

> > Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

>

>

> Mirage, Soulbeast, Holosmith and all the other strong roaming specs were nerfed because they were effecting small scale negatively. They were/are capable of getting in and out fast enough and dealing enough damage to down and secure kills on player(s) even when under a lot of pressure from others. They all ( meta roamers ) also have extremely high mobility and durability/defensive options that allows certain builds to become near impossible to punish if they only ever poke and play passively never actually committing to the fight.

>

> It isn't about 1 v 1, it's about how some of these things are so efficient at exploiting combat in their favor that they're able to choose when a fight happens and where it ends. Good luck pinning down a boonbeast, Mirage or Prot Holo that doesn't want to fight you. Holo may be to a lesser extent than the former but the point is that they all have too much of everything.

>

> 1 v 1 means nothing in WvW. It is an aspect of it, it is not a point of balance nor something that has any effect worth mentioning on the overall score. If something is OP in 1 v 1's it does not necessarily mean it is OP in small/large scale. Eg. Eternal Life Necro; almost impossible to kill in a 1 v1, useless in a team fight because it does no damage and has no presence.

 

Yea I just find it hilarious that FB has also been affecting smallscale negatively cus they ALSO have so much of everything you could possibly ask from a support. Aegis spam, blind spam, daze spam, heals, condi cleanses, reflects, boons, burn dmg, armor buffs. This spec has and currently still does make it impossible to ever win a fight 2v2 considering all players are close to the same skill level. It becomes nearly impossible to punish both the FB and whoever he may be supporting for mistakes and bad rotations.

 

So while I agree that the nerfs to sustain and dmg from the roaming specs is good, because yea, it was pretty stupid and build was way more important than skill, I just ALSO want to see nerfs to FB.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"MELORD.5013" said:

> is it so hard to adapt ?

 

You're talking with people that struggle against guards because of the damage nerfs.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

> > >

> > > Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

> > >

> > > People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

> > >

> > > Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

> > > The argument is stupid.

> > >

> > > Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

> > >

> > > Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

> >

> >

> > Mirage, Soulbeast, Holosmith and all the other strong roaming specs were nerfed because they were effecting small scale negatively. They were/are capable of getting in and out fast enough and dealing enough damage to down and secure kills on player(s) even when under a lot of pressure from others. They all ( meta roamers ) also have extremely high mobility and durability/defensive options that allows certain builds to become near impossible to punish if they only ever poke and play passively never actually committing to the fight.

> >

> > It isn't about 1 v 1, it's about how some of these things are so efficient at exploiting combat in their favor that they're able to choose when a fight happens and where it ends. Good luck pinning down a boonbeast, Mirage or Prot Holo that doesn't want to fight you. Holo may be to a lesser extent than the former but the point is that they all have too much of everything.

> >

> > 1 v 1 means nothing in WvW. It is an aspect of it, it is not a point of balance nor something that has any effect worth mentioning on the overall score. If something is OP in 1 v 1's it does not necessarily mean it is OP in small/large scale. Eg. Eternal Life Necro; almost impossible to kill in a 1 v1, useless in a team fight because it does no damage and has no presence.

>

> Yea I just find it hilarious that FB has also been affecting smallscale negatively cus they ALSO have so much of everything you could possibly ask from a support. Aegis spam, blind spam, daze spam, heals, condi cleanses, reflects, boons, burn dmg, armor buffs. This spec has and currently still does make it impossible to ever win a fight 2v2 considering all players are close to the same skill level. It becomes nearly impossible to punish both the FB and whoever he may be supporting for mistakes and bad rotations.

>

> So while I agree that the nerfs to sustain and dmg from the roaming specs is good, because yea, it was pretty stupid and build was way more important than skill, I just ALSO want to see nerfs to FB.

 

And I agree with you on FB. I was saying this _ages_ ago back when people complained about Scourges AOE spam saying that FB is just as bad if not worse in terms of visual noise and AOE clutter.

 

Guard in general gets away with a lot of stupid things because it's a very good support class. A lot of people don't care how broken something is if it's something that keeps them alive but it's equally as unhealthy and broken.

[bigo.9037]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

> > > >

> > > > Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

> > > >

> > > > People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

> > > >

> > > > Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

> > > > The argument is stupid.

> > > >

> > > > Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

> > > >

> > > > Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

> > >

> > >

> > > Mirage, Soulbeast, Holosmith and all the other strong roaming specs were nerfed because they were effecting small scale negatively. They were/are capable of getting in and out fast enough and dealing enough damage to down and secure kills on player(s) even when under a lot of pressure from others. They all ( meta roamers ) also have extremely high mobility and durability/defensive options that allows certain builds to become near impossible to punish if they only ever poke and play passively never actually committing to the fight.

> > >

> > > It isn't about 1 v 1, it's about how some of these things are so efficient at exploiting combat in their favor that they're able to choose when a fight happens and where it ends. Good luck pinning down a boonbeast, Mirage or Prot Holo that doesn't want to fight you. Holo may be to a lesser extent than the former but the point is that they all have too much of everything.

> > >

> > > 1 v 1 means nothing in WvW. It is an aspect of it, it is not a point of balance nor something that has any effect worth mentioning on the overall score. If something is OP in 1 v 1's it does not necessarily mean it is OP in small/large scale. Eg. Eternal Life Necro; almost impossible to kill in a 1 v1, useless in a team fight because it does no damage and has no presence.

> >

> > Yea I just find it hilarious that FB has also been affecting smallscale negatively cus they ALSO have so much of everything you could possibly ask from a support. Aegis spam, blind spam, daze spam, heals, condi cleanses, reflects, boons, burn dmg, armor buffs. This spec has and currently still does make it impossible to ever win a fight 2v2 considering all players are close to the same skill level. It becomes nearly impossible to punish both the FB and whoever he may be supporting for mistakes and bad rotations.

> >

> > So while I agree that the nerfs to sustain and dmg from the roaming specs is good, because yea, it was pretty stupid and build was way more important than skill, I just ALSO want to see nerfs to FB.

>

> And I agree with you on FB. I was saying this _ages_ ago back when people complained about Scourges AOE spam saying that FB is just as bad if not worse in terms of visual noise and AOE clutter.

>

> Guard in general gets away with a lot of stupid things because it's a very good support class. A lot of people don't care how broken something is if it's something that keeps them alive but it's equally as unhealthy and broken.

 

Cool. I've been saying this for a long time too. But if you go to FB call-out posts, people will defend it like their life depends on it lol

 

[Fish.2769]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

>

> Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

>

> People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

>

> Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

> The argument is stupid.

>

> Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

>

> Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

 

Not sure i've ever seen any class other than Mesmer (In any spec) put down a Veil or portal (that ports more than 5 before the Thieves start on me) before. I've not seen any class other than an Engi (In any spec) put down a MOVABLE AoE/blastable stealth field before. (This includes Thieves, yes they have AoE/blastable stealth fields, but they're not mobile ones).

 

Ranger... Yeah, they've never really offered up much to zerg play but as others have stated, in small scale/roaming they can do some serious damage if not checked... However on Soulbeast you do have the stances which can be used in a similar way that every other support class does so having 1 or 2 in a "zerg" wouldn't be the worst thing ever.

[Strider.7849]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> I used to play WvW a lot but after the patch it just doesn't feel the same anymore. Trying to down people feels like running on sand even when specced as glassy as possible. Even prior to patch some bunker builds were almost impossible to kill. Not to mention all of this has further skewed the balance in favour of the larger zerg.

>

> These changes should have been PvP only.

 

I couldn't disagree more here, I'm a roamer primarily and with classes getting more sustain, in theory I should have even more reason to hate this patch - higher chances of fights snowballing, longer TTK also means more incoming damage when outnumbered, etc. We love the changes and WvW feels far more lively. The fights have been amazing and I've enjoyed WvW so much more now. I used to love pre-hot gameplay, and it feels like we're slowly working our way back to those more fun fights.

[Elmo Benchwarmer.3025]

I completely disagree.

 

CC, setting up and exploiting openers for bursts, resurrecting and supporting allies, stomping, peeling, conserving CDs and dodges, etc. - it all starts to matter again. The times of mindlessly executing the same basic be-all and end-all combos are luckily over and will hopefully never return.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Elmo Benchwarmer.3025" said:

> I completely disagree.

>

> CC, setting up and exploiting openers for bursts, resurrecting and supporting allies, stomping, peeling, conserving CDs and dodges, etc. - it all starts to matter again. The times of mindlessly executing the same basic be-all and end-all combos are luckily over and will hopefully never return.

 

That’s what some player don’t find fun cause their kill is no longer granted due lack of powercreep...

 

Altough some skills need to drop very slightly in damage or having its traits better balanced, thief is fine but traits and how stealth works and borks up needs to be adressed.

 

Burn is a bit out of control...needs some revaluation on how that condi works, to make it feel more natural in combat, while still being a strong condi on pressure combat.

[Mauzi.5892]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Classes who already where tankly just simply become more tankly after this update.

 

...and do zero dmg.

 

So you are wrong. The result is, that you DON'T have to go full tanky with the updates, you can go as far as full zerk now without getting oneshotted every time.

 

The changes are super fun and I'm having a blast so far. All people crying are the ones who copypasta metabattle builds and relied on evadespamming or the OP-ness of their class, rather than skill. l2p.

I'm certainly not the best player, but I feel like my decisions are impacting the fight now. Before you just bursted or cheesed one to death, now you can plan your CC and your combos. And if you fail you might have the chance to try again.

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

>

> Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

>

> People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

>

> Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

> The argument is stupid.

>

> Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

>

> Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

 

Dude, i said that wvw in general isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s, because if you would do that, then zergfights (anything more than like 15 ppl, which is the biggest seller for wvw) would be completely out of whack.

 

This doesnt mean that some classes should be able to run completely rampant in smallscale without counterplay. Ranger changes didnt rly affect zergfighting, did they? Id be happy if they changed ranger in a way that it becomes viable in the zerg.

 

 

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"Mauzi.5892" said:

> Before you just bursted or cheesed one to death, now you can plan your CC and your combos.

 

It's just a different kind of cheese now - cc till your opponent rage quits. Who needs damage now when you can just cc the fun out of someone? Now they can enjoy a slightly more prolonged death sequence ??

 

 

[miguelsil.6324]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> I used to play WvW a lot but after the patch it just doesn't feel the same anymore. Trying to down people feels like running on sand even when specced as glassy as possible. Even prior to patch some bunker builds were almost impossible to kill. Not to mention all of this has further skewed the balance in favour of the larger zerg.

>

> These changes should have been PvP only.

 

Oh yes please bring back the brainless one shot builds and fights ending in 1 to 2seconds. was so much better... Maybe try a another game like a FPS where you can headshot someone and there it is, fast reward.

[Jski.6180]

> @"miguelsil.6324" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > I used to play WvW a lot but after the patch it just doesn't feel the same anymore. Trying to down people feels like running on sand even when specced as glassy as possible. Even prior to patch some bunker builds were almost impossible to kill. Not to mention all of this has further skewed the balance in favour of the larger zerg.

> >

> > These changes should have been PvP only.

>

> Oh yes please bring back the brainless one shot builds and fights ending in 1 to 2seconds. was so much better... Maybe try a another game like a FPS where you can headshot someone and there it is, fast reward.

 

I am not sure what meta your talking about there but i am talking about the old core meta this update is far worst then any thing in the past or what ppl wanted due to there imagination that this update was to deal with power creep (yet it did not). Where healing was not a class roll but a skill team back combo. Where you did not have a boon that simply conter 1/2 of the games effect.

 

Till it goes back to that every thing else is less fun.

[Moradorin.6217]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

>

> Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

>

> People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

>

> Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

> The argument is stupid.

>

> Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

>

> Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

 

I totally agee

[Moradorin.6217]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > Dunno, i still see plenty of dmg go around, they just need to nerf some bunker speccs, but wvw isnt supposed to be balanced around 1v1s anyways...

> >

> > Okay then if 1v1 doesn't matter then why the kitten is mesmer being nerfed, ranger??? These classes got nerfs despite having NO ROLE in large scale. Explain that to me, thanks.

> >

> > People always say "oh it doesn't matter cus 1v1 doesn't need balance" but AS SOON AS rangers can actually kill scourges and necros EVERYONE LOSES THEIR KITTEN and wants soulbeast nerfed into the ground.

> >

> > Stop being a hypocrite. The EXACT same thing has happened to mirages.

> > The argument is stupid.

> >

> > Edit: holos got nerfed too. Why? They didn't have any role in large scale. So why nerf them?

> >

> > Clearly, 1v1 and 2v2 DOES matter, so stop pretending otherwise. So I just don't understand why people think it's OK FB can be the best support in ALL pvp gamemodes (wvw blob, wvw smallscale , spvp) but specs that are total niche and are only "OK" at doing ONE THING need to be nerfed. What the frik is up what that.

>

>

> Mirage, Soulbeast, Holosmith and all the other strong roaming specs were nerfed because they were effecting small scale negatively. They were/are capable of getting in and out fast enough and dealing enough damage to down and secure kills on player(s) even when under a lot of pressure from others. They all ( meta roamers ) also have extremely high mobility and durability/defensive options that allows certain builds to become near impossible to punish if they only ever poke and play passively never actually committing to the fight.

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> It isn't about 1 v 1, it's about how some of these things are so efficient at exploiting combat in their favor that they're able to choose when a fight happens and where it ends. Good luck pinning down a boonbeast, Mirage or Prot Holo that doesn't want to fight you. Holo may be to a lesser extent than the former but the point is that they all have too much of everything.

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> 1 v 1 means nothing in WvW. It is an aspect of it, it is not a point of balance nor something that has any effect worth mentioning on the overall score. If something is OP in 1 v 1's it does not necessarily mean it is OP in small/large scale. Eg. Eternal Life Necro; almost impossible to kill in a 1 v1, useless in a team fight because it does no damage and has no presence.

 

IMO this is basically a cop out response. The same can be said for warrior, guard, scrapper, ele, necro (speed rune), etc. Same happens to a mesmer trying to chase anhy of those classes if they "dont want to fight" (unless you can sneak up on them while they are idle). The big difference that was the other poster was pointing out is that although the classes you mention have little to no large scale battle roles and are only really good for ganking people alone or who stray from the tag. The other classes you DIDNT mention DO have large scale roles AND ALSO have about equal ability (depending build) to run away or to into battle. People can chase w mesmer all day and never be able to do more than tickle war, guard, ele, holo, necro, etc, etc, etc who wants to run away (unless they are sitting idle in which case who cares).

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This thread like many other threads on the topic or otherwise shows how important it is to actually add some arguments to your oppinions. Discussing your oppinions is pretty pointless whereas discussing your arguments could be valuable.

 

The problem is that people are just blurting whatever they like out and there is no one around to encourage sensible discussion. That also means that if someone is trying to help you reach a sensible discussion those comments tend to fall on deaf ears or get drowned out in all the bleeting noise.

 

For example, since the patch I have both been hit and hit others with singular attacks that constitutes more than 75% of their hitpoint pool. That does not always include a fully offensive build on a full offensive target either (ie., zerk on zerk). If those are not facts that are heard in the discussion, the discussion becomes pointless. The @OP is then outright wrong. Thus the discussion has to be framed in something that is more sensible and not so easily disproven.

 

Also, I don't think any class was nerfed more than another for popularity reasons in this patch. Every class was "nerfed". All forms of damage were nerfed (but there is an interesting underlying discussion about power- and condition design and balance). All forms of healing was also nerfed. All forms of boon application was also nerfed (and that leaves interesting discussions about the balances of control) etc. Some classes were hit harder than others but in some cases it was because there is a paralell project of nerfing specialisations to re-enable core builds (ie., Mirage and Soulbeast were hit by their core-trade-off changes now). Other classes have not yet had their core-project changes addressed. Another side of it is that the sweeping changes impact different classes differently due to mechanics. For example, Hammers on Warriors lost more damage because it has more CC. It wasn't nerfed more, it just had more buttons affected by the sweeping CC change. Those things will be adressed over the next 6 months. Perhaps the Hammer will get more damage and less CC. Perhaps it will be denoted as a weapon meant for CC. Who knows?

 

Personally, I am no fan of the core project and I can see it growing to a continous balance concern (ie., some classes have been hit harder or deeper to their core than others in addressing what sort of mechanics are getting trade-offs; at the same time that goes for how they have been originally designed too). However, I can see that it exists and at least take note of it when discussing.