Is it possible for Heroes to comeback to Guild Wars 2?

[drunkenpilot.9837]

I really, really dislike the idea of a GW1 heroes system coming to GW2. As one or two others in this thread have said, this leads to players not wanting to group with others, for a multitude of reasons, the biggest of which being that experienced players will typically choose to do their content solo (with henchmen/heroes) rather than in a PUG, simply because they've had poor experiences with PUGs in the past or they don't trust the ability of PUGs in general.

 

When the heroes system was fully implemented in GW1 it became harder and harder to find a group to do the story missions (missions which, I might add, were required to progress the game). Eventually, the heroes system won out and players would inevitably choose to make a party of their own heroes and henchmen rather than other players. Unless you were skilled in hero management, or had guildies who wanted to do that content with you, you simply wouldn't be able to progress the game any further until you were lucky enough to find some others in the same situation as yourself. And I'm being totally honest when I say that could take either hours, or days. I never completed much of the later expac content because of that, and because I was a late-comer to the expansions. I was personally told on many occasions (by different players) that the only way I was going to get those missions done is by learning the intricacies of the hero system and doing it by myself. There were few occasions where other players were willing to PUG with me.

 

When the heroes system had been fully embraced by the community, GW1 ceased being an MMORPG for me. It had turned into a single player RPG with an MMO chat and trading system. And that's still what it is today, unless you're a part of one of the few remaining active big guilds, or unless you PvP.

 

If that system is ported to GW2 it will mean the beginning of the end of PUGs in this game. I really hope that day never comes. Please don't ask for it, because as one of the forum regular's signatures says:

 

Be careful what you wish for. Anet might give it to you.

[Khisanth.2948]

Based on how stupid the various NPCs behave I am going to have to go with no.

[Ohoni.6057]

I sort of addressed this possibility [here,](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9985/xpac3-dragons-watch-mastery) and personally I think it would be a great idea.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I believe, as others have suggested, that Heroes will not be a thing in GW2 persistent world content. Forcing players whose systems struggle with the rendering of lots of models as it is to have to render even more seems like it would be a public relations mess. I doubt they will ever become a thing in instanced content, either. However, if ANet did decide to do so, I expect they'd want to do it right. This could mean that we'd see better NPC UI, which might also make its way into story instances.

[sixburn.5807]

> @Aeolus.3615 said:

> This actually would be kinda cool :|

>

> EDIT: Lord Faren..... as your first troll companion LoL....

> On gw1 we could use our other toons as heros as well.

 

lol yeah! Famous among human players, he is there at the beginning, he appeared in the HoT meta and he made the epilogue his party! He should meet Joko, it will be a riot.

[sixburn.5807]

> @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

> > @jwaz.1908 said:

> > For open world I can't see NPC parties being a good thing, as they would break a lot of existing content, as well as cause even more latency issues. However for dungeons (the current ones and potential new ones) they could be a great opportunity. Finding parties in LFG for core Tyria dungeons can be a huge hassle, and having the additional option to run these dungeons solo (with a group of NPCs) similar to what they did with Arah story mode would be great!

>

> even i agree open world does not need hench already easy enough there. it would be negative in effect to not only self but to the entire game and others. Instanced stuff not hurting anyone because option to use human groups still there and many people will always prefer human over AI. even i would once i got to use hechies as a tool for learning the area or content, as I stated in one my other replies.

 

Definitely not open world, they fair better as an instance only companions or perhaps part of the LFG option. On story instances, we already have henchies of the sort, with the likes of Rytlock, Kas, Taimi etc. but they are mostly decorative. In GW1, there is a way of controlling your party, I am sure with the current GW2 engine/tech, given ANet's genius, if ever Heroes come back they will be more efficiently and innovatively done.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

I wouldn't mind having the option to have a companion that you can equip and customize. But then they should count to the map player limit and if the limit is approaching its cap, then companions should be hidden or removed automatically (besides, if the map is getting full, there should be enough people doing events to not need companions).

 

Or, they could even just limit it to specific kinds of content like dungeons or fractals.

 

For me personally though, I'd like it more for story or dialogue purposes. For the story, you are creating a new guild called Dragon's Watch, so I think it would be a nice touch if you could find NPC's in the world to recruit for your story guild and use as companions. They could also include already existing members such as Rytlock or Canach, etc. It would also be nice if your player character and your companion had moments of banter between them as you explore the world or do events, just to add more to immersion and to let us get to know the characters more outside of their specific story appearances. However, if it was implemented in this manner, I'd limit players to having one companion in open world areas (which then gets removed if the map is starting to get too full) and maybe up to four in dungeons and fractals.

 

It would also be nice if our story guild got its own small guild hall where your companions show up once recruited.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > Um, I'm sure you know that when I said it's a disincentive for people to socialize, I wasn't referring to using /chat or voip to chat with folks you already know. The problem expressed by the OP relates to dealing with PUGs, which wouldn't be an issue if the folks in one's VOIP were available for the instanced content being discussed.

> >

> Thats what I've been trying to point out the entire time here it doesn't effect group play as much as you think it does. You assume it will it may a little bit, but be honest with yourself would it affect you or your guild or your friends?

 

In fact, it would. There are several people that group up because instances are just the wrong side of difficult to solo (for them) or the wrong of tedious with one. With heroes, they'd go off on their own instead. I hadn't specifically considered how it would affect the people I know & play with the most, so thanks for reminding me that it would have a big impact.

 

I was thinking instead of my experience in GW1. By the time I started playing, it was difficult to PUG just about anything that wasn't considered farming. Things like ecto teams in Underworld, Tormented currency in Torment, and so on... to the extent that there was PUGging, it was very strict about who could join (imo, the meta was even stricter there than it is for GW2 raids, but I admit there's probably no way to quantify which is worse). The only time I've seen anything close to PUGs getting full groups reguarly were for short periods of time after the intro of Zaishen bounties, and for a week or three after the introduction of each GWBeyond story (War in Kryta, Winds of Change). It's not that people never PUGged; it was just hard to find enough for a full group.

 

And a huge reason was that no one needed to. All sorts of hero teams could steamroll even hard mode dungeons. (And that only got easier when you could manage 7 heroes per party.)

 

So I can't agree with you that socialization wouldn't be affected. People who are already linked together wouldn't be less linked, but they would have less incentive to play together. And strangers would have even less incentive. I can see why many people would like to see heroes, but I hope you can also see that they would impact the game in a way that goes against ANet's direction for the game.

 

In an unrelated thread, there's a quote from @"McKenna Berdrow.2759" about how ANet prefers to arrange things to include people rather than exclude — heroes exclude others, so I can't see ANet spending effort to even consider how they might be added to the game. At least, not any time soon.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I've been asking for this for awhile. I think our pool of heroes to draw from should be our own toons. After all we equip and build them ourselves. I liked in GW1 how you could designate a healer to avoid combat. It would also be nice to select which ones attack from close up and which attack from a distance. Also to tell them to attack your target or other targets to keep them off your back.

[Einlanzer.1627]

There's no reason they can't do this. You already tend to have companions in story instances. Granted, their AI tends to be poor, but that's just an issue of iterating what they already have.

[Svarty.8019]

> @Einlanzer.1627 said:

> There's no reason they can't do this.

 

There is, however, very good reason for them not to do this. Resources are not infinite.

[crashburntoo.7431]

I've only completed a few dungeons alongside IRL friends/family. I ran the "temporary dungeon" in Frost and Flame with a PUG, and it wasn't a good experience. However, that was my fault... I was asked at the start if I "knew how it worked". I said yes, which was a big mistake. I hadn't run group content with anyone in the game. I didn't realize that I needed a ranged weapon for the boss fight. We wiped 2-3 times before someone tossed me a basic staff.

 

I should have been upfront about my inexperience... maybe I would have been kicked, but it wasn't fair to set an incorrect expectation. I had an aversion to groups to start with (personal preference to solo), but I set myself up for failure on this one. Ultimately, we finished the content and the group dissolved 10 seconds later. Unkind things were said, and I took them to heart. I haven't been in a PUG since. I'm part of a great, casual guild now. I'm looking forward to some dungeons and fractals with them in the future, and I'll be honest about my experience and knowledge level.

 

OT, Heroes would enable my preference to solo the group content. If this was limited to dungeons, I don't think it would be that bad. They aren't very popular, and I could mess around at my pace (a pace that's not of much interest to others). Beyond making them part of dungeons, GW2 is better off as is. Groups and community are part of the game, whether PUG or guild-based, and fractals/raids are best run that way. The open world is best left with player characters only as well. This could change in the future, if population drops. Ultimately, I hope this game is around for many more years with a healthy population willing to participate in all kinds of content.

 

[lothefallen.7081]

It will never happen, basically because of how the open world content is structured. In GW1, players owned their own instance of most PvE maps when they loaded in to the respective map, which means that the heroes or henchman could not interfere with anyone beyond the 7 other party members. In addition, the content in the personal story is not always instanced and sometimes involves the open world. Finally, current instanced-story content is tuned for solo play so there's really no reason to add them.

[maddoctor.2738]

It will never happen because AI cannot replace a human in a game with a dynamic combat system that is based on movement. In GW1 combat was mostly static and movement played a very small role. Also, in GW1 the AI had to deal with 8 skills maximum, in GW2 there are loads upon loads of different skills to deal with. Finally, in GW1 the AI could play some roles far better than a human, like an interrupter or minion master, something impossible in GW2.

[Mina Ion.7852]

Doesn't fit with the game. Thing is that GW1 was balanced around the fact that you NEEDED a full 8 person party even for wandering around the map. Zones outside cities/outposts were completely instanced to you. In Prophecies and Factions, you could only bring regular NPC companions which were GARBAGE. Heroes were basically higher end NPCs you could customize. Which is to say three Necro heroes, two with MM builds, and one with Spiteful Spirit, lol.

 

GW2 is balanced with open world single character in mind. And dynamic events scaled with the number of players. Adding heroes would actually gimp you hardcore as even customized Heroes could never be as good as another player, while still forcing you to face content scaled to the number of players or AI characters fighting with you. So imagine charging into a Forged dynamic event with a team of three AI characters and facing four times the opposition because of it. Not fun.

[Fluffball.8307]

Even if they restricted heroes to dungeons and fractals, most paths require semi-complex mechanics like jumping over lasers or timing various interactions. Heroes aren't capable of GW2s mechanics without some major adjustments. GW1 mechanics were almost 100% build creation, which a human could preset for their heroes.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> In an unrelated thread, there's a quote from @"McKenna Berdrow.2759" about how ANet prefers to arrange things to include people rather than exclude — heroes exclude others, so I can't see ANet spending effort to even consider how they might be added to the game. At least, not any time soon.

 

Them raids sure are inclusive I tell ya hwat. :^)

 

Speaking seriously though on the topic of heroes, it would be nice but I don't see it happening.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

> @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > In an unrelated thread, there's a quote from @"McKenna Berdrow.2759" about how ANet prefers to arrange things to include people rather than exclude —

> Them raids sure are inclusive I tell ya hwat. :^)

 

Lol right, revenant not allowed....... but anet didn't really do that the community is. Just like to be honest the community is also preventing heros/hench from existing ;) If we all agreed on it and pushed for it it would happen like mounts did i dont remember many if any ever arguing mounts to not be added. Sit back observe the community and anets reaction to community you learn alot.

 

---------------

 

As I've stated before i 100% support the idea of hench and heros to be brought to the instanced content, do i expect it no not really. Would be nice and helpful tool maybe then i could make use of all the content I paid for (i paid for core im not f2per) i miss out on all of group content just because of who i am as a person and because of my personality and how i play games both online or offline. Be it guild wars 1 2 or 99 or any other mmo game. I stick to myself in all of them, just some people don't follow the crowd even in real life loners and outcasts exist.

 

Just like this lesbian gay content people created threads about. I don't believe in it or support that stuff in real life not how I was raised, but at the same time im not here saying hey this shouldn't be here because I know it is what it is and accept all type of people in a gaming world. Its not really affecting me or my play style.

Nor would hench to those who play group content or prefer human players to AI.

 

Nothing at all would change for you. Doesn't hurt anyone if me or 50 other people already anti-sociables now we be same then. If people are sociable now, they wont change who they are over game content be anti-sociable with hench addition.

People don't change who they are because of game content. If they do then they have bigger problems, then anet adding hench to instanced content in my humble and respectful opinion.

[ancientoak.4258]

Would be a bad thing, theres already a thing called single player games for that. Why play a multiplayer game when you only want to singleplay? doesn't make sence.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

> @ancientoak.4258 said:

> Would be a bad thing, theres already a thing called single player games for that. Why play a multiplayer game when you only want to singleplay? doesn't make sence.

 

I disagree why can we solo open world. But not instances? It makes no sense. People keep bringing this MP thing to the table gw1 was an MP game heck it was even more group based game than gw2 was. Yet still had henchman for the entire game. Most of us arnt even asking for the ability to use it in open world just instanced stuff. Nothing more. Using MP as an argument is based on nothing cause we can solo 50% of this game already and easily.

 

> @ancientoak.4258 said:

> Would be a bad thing,

This is vague explain why?

[Carnius Magius.8091]

I'd settle for henchmen for general PVE. If I remember right there was a drop rate penalty when using npc help.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

> @"Carnius Magius.8091" said:

> I'd settle for henchmen for general PVE. If I remember right there was a drop rate penalty when using npc help.

 

you remember correctly henchmen took 50% of loots and gold from the player (actually think it was more like 10% per hench.hero) there was indeed penalties so to speak but really be no dif than playing with other humans because all loot was shared with group anyways. Only dif would have been in gw1 would be say a green weapon dropped one could have bargained with the claimer might could have acquired that green for a price or haggled the claimer out of it. Where hench you can't bargain or haggle with.

 

So still a logical penalty to this. Also i feel that it was a fair penalty.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

> @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

> Lol right, revenant not allowed....... but anet didn't really do that the community is. Just like to be honest the community is also preventing heros/hench from existing ;)

 

Oh I definitely agree that it's a community issue and not an Anet one. I also think it should be the community who should rectify the issue of including versus excluding. However, when an overwhelmingly huge/major section of the community presents itself as being exclusive to the point of hindering access and showing no signs of changing, I feel like and believe that's when Anet should step in and do something to discourage such an attitude. I know they're not going to though. :\

[Player.9621]

need hard mode first

i dont think the current open world needs them, its too small and too crowded

hard mode story missions could work tho, but i cant see that happening any time this decade

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

> @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

> > @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

> > Lol right, revenant not allowed....... but anet didn't really do that the community is. Just like to be honest the community is also preventing heros/hench from existing ;)

>

> Oh I definitely agree that it's a community issue and not an Anet one. I also think it should be the community who should rectify the issue of including versus excluding. However, when an overwhelmingly huge/major section of the community presents itself as being exclusive to the point of hindering access and showing no signs of changing, I feel like and believe that's when Anet should step in and do something to discourage such an attitude. I know they're not going to though. :\

 

They might but we need to make a big enough deal about it to make em raise an eye brow to it ya know. Anet has always reacted when a big deal is made. Just a joint effort all in favor need to make their voice heard their ideas their support etc.

btw i updated my post that i quoted you on, to make it not seem like all of it was meant towards you. Hopefully you didn't take it that way. My apologies if you did.