Expansion Elite Specialization Thread

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > I am sick of shroud just let us have more invulns and ports. I don't care if we have no shroud so long as we get compensated and not slow as slugs and easy free kills.

> >

> > As got pointed out many times: You can' get rid of shroud completely. Necromancer is bound to have a way to shield their health through life force in some way as long as traits like Unholy Sanctuary exist. And mechanics like invuln, ports, blocks, evades won't get implemented in the class as long as necromancers have such shrouds.

>

> Scourge doesn't have a shroud, but it has barriers.

>

> I know I'm kinda flip-flopping, but I am worried they would kitten up the next elite spec completely. I don't trust anet, and I'd love a spec not weighed down just because I have a shroud, and unable to compete with other classes.

 

Scourge have a shroud: _desert shroud_. It's a corrupted skill where dps hid defense but it's a "shroud". A "shroud" with defense is unfortunately a necessary skill due to how core traits are designed.

 

The necromancer and it's e-spec could be much more and be healthier in the game if and only if ANet's devs took the time to fix the underlying design issue that make the necromancer unhealthy. In themself, the shroud, boon corruption, barrier, condition manipulation, self inflicted conditions, life leeching and even minions aren't bad mechanisms, the true issue is how there implemented.

- The shroud just shouldn't shoulder both attack and defense.

- Boon corruption just shouldn't have a full conversion table and should work on defiant foes whether they got a boon or not (Defiance itself should be seen as a boon, even if you can't rip it, because that's just what it is, it does the same job than _stability_ and cover partially the role of _resistance_ as well).

- Barrier just shouldn't stack in intensity.

- Self-inflicted conditions should be way more beneficial than being an inconvenient way to sacrifice your cleanses.

- Life leeching shouldn't have a damage component and simply be attached as a heal to regular attacks.

- DM shouldn't dedicate 3 major traits to minions (if they want to, they have to put a sure way to generate minions that don't discriminate builds or at least put a minor in DM that generate a minion passively without being dependant on "on death" effect) and the dedicated minion skill trait should make those minion's active skill worth something instead of buffing in vain over and over again the passive minions.

 

I know that fixing issues is way more time consuming than adjusting coefficients but, let's face it, if you want something that work properly it's a necessicity! The necromancer and indirectly other professions are suffering from the lack of acknowledgement that there is indeed things that are poorly implemented on the necromancer (and other professions).

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > I am sick of shroud just let us have more invulns and ports. I don't care if we have no shroud so long as we get compensated and not slow as slugs and easy free kills.

> > >

> > > As got pointed out many times: You can' get rid of shroud completely. Necromancer is bound to have a way to shield their health through life force in some way as long as traits like Unholy Sanctuary exist. And mechanics like invuln, ports, blocks, evades won't get implemented in the class as long as necromancers have such shrouds.

> >

> > Scourge doesn't have a shroud, but it has barriers.

> >

> > I know I'm kinda flip-flopping, but I am worried they would kitten up the next elite spec completely. I don't trust anet, and I'd love a spec not weighed down just because I have a shroud, and unable to compete with other classes.

>

> Scourge have a shroud: _desert shroud_. It's a corrupted skill where dps hid defense but it's a "shroud". A "shroud" with defense is unfortunately a necessary skill due to how core traits are designed.

>

> The necromancer and it's e-spec could be much more and be healthier in the game if and only if ANet's devs took the time to fix the underlying design issue that make the necromancer unhealthy. In themself, the shroud, boon corruption, barrier, condition manipulation, self inflicted conditions, life leeching and even minions aren't bad mechanisms, the true issue is how there implemented.

> - The shroud just shouldn't shoulder both attack and defense.

> - Boon corruption just shouldn't have a full conversion table and should work on defiant foes whether they got a boon or not (Defiance itself should be seen as a boon, even if you can't rip it, because that's just what it is, it does the same job than _stability_ and cover partially the role of _resistance_ as well).

> - Barrier just shouldn't stack in intensity.

> - Self-inflicted conditions should be way more beneficial than being an inconvenient way to sacrifice your cleanses.

> - Life leeching shouldn't have a damage component and simply be attached as a heal to regular attacks.

> - DM shouldn't dedicate 3 major traits to minions (if they want to, they have to put a sure way to generate minions that don't discriminate builds or at least put a minor in DM that generate a minion passively without being dependant on "on death" effect) and the dedicated minion skill trait should make those minion's active skill worth something instead of buffing in vain over and over again the passive minions.

>

> I know that fixing issues is way more time consuming than adjusting coefficients but, let's face it, if you want something that work properly it's a necessicity! The necromancer and indirectly other professions are suffering from the lack of acknowledgement that there is indeed things that are poorly implemented on the necromancer (and other professions).

 

If barrier wouldn't stack in intensity, then you would have to completely rework the scrapper again, since they apply 15% of their strike damage as barrier to themselves. Which would suck if it doesn't stack up.

[Lily.1935]

> @"caerulean.4837" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > Looking at the lore of Canada we might see necromancy go underground due to the Ministry of Purity. Or they'll conform to Ritualist ways. I don't see something as dirty as minions or vampire happening without just the straight up addition of a new profession in ritualist. Necromancer takes the ritualists job in every other culture around Tyria. They are the priests of grenth and one who give burial rights. In Cantha that's the ritualist. So its either conformity or illegal magic.

>

> While I understand your thought process here, and it's 100% a fair call, I don't think the new specs have to be related to Cantha just because it's the new area being introduced. Some kind of more subtle shadow magic for these kind of lore reasons would be cool to see though!

 

You're right that it doesn't have to. HoT's lore for the elite specs was pretty loose for sure. However for HoT we got more lore for the elite specs. I'm personally of the opinion that the elite specs should be quested for to acquire, which might or might not be a unpopular opinion. And the quests should show up on your Elite specialization tab as well as use your hero points. So your hero points being used to unlock the next quest in the chain. This way anet could tell us a side story with them on how these specs came to be and make us as players really feel a connection with them. I don't think they need to be voiced at all. Reading isn't a problem, although voices would be nice this for me would be a dream. I'm like WP in a few ways. I Adore the lore of this game. And giving me more lore is never a bad thing. Only I'm a bit more lazy than WP and I'd prefer to listen to his smooth voice when I overlook stuff, Haha!

 

Sorry a bit of a rant there. The thing is, necromancer has a lot of history with Cantha. And a lot of Conflicts with the ritualist. Their different philosophies on how to handle the dead is a major theme of their's in Cantha and its something to take note of. Scourge had a lot of flavor to it and reading about each of the specialists stories in PoF was certainly a highlight of world exploration in PoF. PoF had a lot of problems for sure, but its lore and story wasn't one of them imo.

 

I mean, I'll throw it out there. What do you think about that?

[Axl.8924]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > I am sick of shroud just let us have more invulns and ports. I don't care if we have no shroud so long as we get compensated and not slow as slugs and easy free kills.

> > >

> > > As got pointed out many times: You can' get rid of shroud completely. Necromancer is bound to have a way to shield their health through life force in some way as long as traits like Unholy Sanctuary exist. And mechanics like invuln, ports, blocks, evades won't get implemented in the class as long as necromancers have such shrouds.

> >

> > Scourge doesn't have a shroud, but it has barriers.

> >

> > I know I'm kinda flip-flopping, but I am worried they would kitten up the next elite spec completely. I don't trust anet, and I'd love a spec not weighed down just because I have a shroud, and unable to compete with other classes.

>

> Scourge have a shroud: _desert shroud_. It's a corrupted skill where dps hid defense but it's a "shroud". A "shroud" with defense is unfortunately a necessary skill due to how core traits are designed.

>

> The necromancer and it's e-spec could be much more and be healthier in the game if and only if ANet's devs took the time to fix the underlying design issue that make the necromancer unhealthy. In themself, the shroud, boon corruption, barrier, condition manipulation, self inflicted conditions, life leeching and even minions aren't bad mechanisms, the true issue is how there implemented.

> - The shroud just shouldn't shoulder both attack and defense.

> - Boon corruption just shouldn't have a full conversion table and should work on defiant foes whether they got a boon or not (Defiance itself should be seen as a boon, even if you can't rip it, because that's just what it is, it does the same job than _stability_ and cover partially the role of _resistance_ as well).

> - Barrier just shouldn't stack in intensity.

> - Self-inflicted conditions should be way more beneficial than being an inconvenient way to sacrifice your cleanses.

> - Life leeching shouldn't have a damage component and simply be attached as a heal to regular attacks.

> - DM shouldn't dedicate 3 major traits to minions (if they want to, they have to put a sure way to generate minions that don't discriminate builds or at least put a minor in DM that generate a minion passively without being dependant on "on death" effect) and the dedicated minion skill trait should make those minion's active skill worth something instead of buffing in vain over and over again the passive minions.

>

> I know that fixing issues is way more time consuming than adjusting coefficients but, let's face it, if you want something that work properly it's a necessicity! The necromancer and indirectly other professions are suffering from the lack of acknowledgement that there is indeed things that are poorly implemented on the necromancer (and other professions).

 

Hence why I said necro needs rework from ground up

Necro is a mess.

 

Scourge needs to be decided if its going to be support or condi. If its condi, it needs to have a way where sacrificing support gives way to enough condi to be competitive in PVE, and vice versa.

 

Personally, i think scourge should be mainly support and have core be condi.

 

Core has way less problematic stuff, and maybe death magic could add use for pve support? Maybe we could give carapace to others?.

[lare.5129]

will hope no any elite spec will come for necro

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> If barrier wouldn't stack in intensity, then you would have to completely rework the scrapper again, since they apply 15% of their strike damage as barrier to themselves. Which would suck if it doesn't stack up.

 

It wouldn't be the first time that the scrapper see a rework. How many rework have it seen already? 3-4? From an e-spec based on CC to an e-spec based on nothing and not working then an e-spec based on combo to an e-spec focusing on barrier... I'm sure I forget some of the "forms" that the scrapper have been throught but, honnestly it's so ever changing that another change probably won't be much more trouble.

 

ANet could have fixed half of the whole necromancer's issues with the amount of rework already put on the scrapper only.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> - DM shouldn't dedicate 3 major traits to minions (if they want to, they have to put a sure way to generate minions that don't discriminate builds or at least put a minor in DM that generate a minion passively without being dependant on "on death" effect) and the dedicated minion skill trait should make those minion's active skill worth something instead of buffing in vain over and over again the passive minions.

 

I'm inclined to disagree. The point of putting them in major traits and _not_ having anything minion-related in the minors is so that you can invest heavily in minions _if you choose,_ but the traitline doesn't force you into minions - you can choose to use it just to make yourself a bit tougher instead.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > - DM shouldn't dedicate 3 major traits to minions (if they want to, they have to put a sure way to generate minions that don't discriminate builds or at least put a minor in DM that generate a minion passively without being dependant on "on death" effect) and the dedicated minion skill trait should make those minion's active skill worth something instead of buffing in vain over and over again the passive minions.

>

> I'm inclined to disagree. The point of putting them in major traits and _not_ having anything minion-related in the minors is so that you can invest heavily in minions _if you choose,_ but the traitline doesn't force you into minions - you can choose to use it just to make yourself a bit tougher instead.

 

Sure, just imagine 3 major traits solely dedicated to turrets on engineer just so they got as much power as they do right now. Or 3 major traits solely dedicated to nature spirit on ranger. Even funnier, 3 major traits solely dedicated to elementals on elementalist.

 

If you put more than a single major trait on something that only appear if you take the proper utility skill, there is waste. Nothing more, nothing less. Look, from the point of view of a necromancer _spectral_ skills don't even have a single dedicated trait and are amongst the most useful skill of it's kit while minions have 4 dedicated traits and still are barely usefull. It's without a doubt an issue. If a category of utility skills lock out so many traits to barely be usefull then these utility skill need a change. If a 3rd of a specialization (3 out of 9 traits!) need you to take a very specific kind of utility in order to not be useless then there is a need to change, to rework things.

[draxynnic.3719]

If I recall correctly, there _was_ that many traits for turrets once. Paring that back, though, was done to nerf it.

 

For the other two... well, you _know_ you're being silly there. Elementals and even spirits were never part of the identity of the elementalist and ranger to the degree that minions are to the necromancer. Guild Wars 1 used to have entire _builds_ based purely around minions.

 

From a balance perspective, splitting it across three major traits means that if you want to have a minion-focused build, you can do it and have a fairly strong minion presence. Without making that investment... sure, you can still HAVE minions, but they're going to be significantly weaker. Requiring taking 2-3 major traits to really get minions to shine seems a fair trade for minions to actually remain reasonably powerful as a build theme should you choose to take it, rather than going the way of turret engineer.

 

Because if those traits get rolled into one or even two, the end result _is_ going to be weaker minions (because that's how balance works - one trait isn't going to be as good as three, because you have to pay for the two other traits you get in the power budget). And given that "army of undead" is often the first thing people think about when they think "necromancer" - let's keep that at least somewhat viable in practice, shall we?

 

In the meantime, it's not like the specialisation is going to waste if you don't play MM - Death Magic without minions is becoming quite popular in competitive modes for the extra durability.

[Anchoku.8142]

What function does Necromancer not have that the developers will permit?

 

Reaper - cleave dps

Scourge - group health support

 

* Boon spam?

* Mobility?

* AoE Blocking or Reflect?

* Stealth?

* Tanking (aggro control) / Stability?

* Teleportation?

* Traps?

* Bundles or Kits?

* Long Range DPS?

 

[Nord.1492]

If i dont get my Ritualist i will quit the game... hahahahaha just kidding..

From a Pve sight: Dont get to excited please, anet will do like the past 8 Years... the first bad thing pops into their minds, why effort for necros.

To be honest, i wouldnt expect to much from a new elite specc because anet will do it like always with the necro in the first 3 months:

1. Introduce new specc

2. Omg so op it pulls 38k benchmark

3. We put the Balance team together again to balance things faster

4. Introduce Hotfix only for the necro, dps loss -10k

5. Yeah that necro thingi was a bug, in the future you get some of the dps back... ha ha ha

6. Forget about the new elite specc

6. "buffing" speccs from former addons (scourge in this case... maybe) ................."buffing"... ha... ha ..

7. repeat "buffing" ... :)

8. profit

Sounds familiar hm? They did with the Scourge after releasing PoF and he never recovered from it. The promised "dps back" was a lie, instead they "buffed" a e-specc from a former addon (Reaper) from 28k to 31k dps(was a good start, but not enough). Dont get fooled by Anet and the nice treatment with the necros... I didn't forget it.

 

Ps: Hello Dadnir.5038 my good old friend!!! Still fighting for the Necro Honour, iam proud of you. :D

[Lily.1935]

> @"Nord.1492" said:

> If i dont get my Ritualist i will quit the game... hahahahaha just kidding..

> From a Pve sight: Dont get to excited please, anet will do like the past 8 Years... the first bad thing pops into their minds, why effort for necros.

> To be honest, i wouldnt expect to much from a new elite specc because anet will do it like always with the necro in the first 3 months:

> 1. Introduce new specc

> 2. Omg so op it pulls 38k benchmark

> 3. We put the Balance team together again to balance things faster

> 4. Introduce Hotfix only for the necro, dps loss -10k

> 5. Yeah that necro thingi was a bug, in the future you get some of the dps back... ha ha ha

> 6. Forget about the new elite specc

> 6. "buffing" speccs from former addons (scourge in this case... maybe) ................."buffing"... ha... ha ..

> 7. repeat "buffing" ... :)

> 8. profit

> Sounds familiar hm? They did with the Scourge after releasing PoF and he never recovered from it. The promised "dps back" was a lie, instead they "buffed" a e-specc from a former addon (Reaper) from 28k to 31k dps(was a good start, but not enough). Dont get fooled by Anet and the nice treatment with the necros... I didn't forget it.

>

> Ps: Hello Dadnir.5038 my good old friend!!! Still fighting for the Necro Honour, iam proud of you. :D

 

Cynical outlook on it but fairly accurate. Scourge needs some buffs for PvE for sure. And the fact that the healer scourge actually doesn't want you to conjure your shade is funny, but kinda goes against its intended design. I'd like to see Sand Savant completely reworked, but that's just me.

 

As for a New elite spec. I want either a ritualist or a Minion master. I know people dislike AI, I'm not one of them. And I know some people dislike the scourge because its shroudless, but again i'm not one of them. Reaper has their place and their fans, scourge has theirs. Hopefully the third will fill a niche neither can do.

 

Which Ritualist as a proper healer and offensive support would be different enough. You have your Barrier priest and your Ritual priest. Minion master would also offer a new style of play too. I know there are quite a lot of people who want the Vampire spec. I would be okay with it, but its not something I'd be too inclined to enjoy personally. But that does depend on how its designed of course.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Nord.1492" said:

> If i dont get my Ritualist i will quit the game... hahahahaha just kidding..

> From a Pve sight: Dont get to excited please, anet will do like the past 8 Years... the first bad thing pops into their minds, why effort for necros.

> To be honest, i wouldnt expect to much from a new elite specc because anet will do it like always with the necro in the first 3 months:

> 1. Introduce new specc

> 2. Omg so op it pulls 38k benchmark

> 3. We put the Balance team together again to balance things faster

> 4. Introduce Hotfix only for the necro, dps loss -10k

> 5. Yeah that necro thingi was a bug, in the future you get some of the dps back... ha ha ha

> 6. Forget about the new elite specc

> 6. "buffing" speccs from former addons (scourge in this case... maybe) ................."buffing"... ha... ha ..

> 7. repeat "buffing" ... :)

> 8. profit

> Sounds familiar hm? They did with the Scourge after releasing PoF and he never recovered from it. The promised "dps back" was a lie, instead they "buffed" a e-specc from a former addon (Reaper) from 28k to 31k dps(was a good start, but not enough). Don't get fooled by Anet and the nice treatment with the necros... I didn't forget it.

>

> Ps: Hello Dadnir.5038 my good old friend!!! Still fighting for the Necro Honour, I am proud of you. :D

 

It's not done yet people are still crying for necro nerfs in survivability and lich.

 

 

[Elric.4713]

I'd like Vampiric theme the most, they can tie it in with Hopping Vampires from Echovald Forest.

Ritualist is a big no for Necromancer I'm afraid.

[FrownyClown.8402]

> @"Elric.4713" said:

> I'd like Vampiric theme the most, they can tie it in with Hopping Vampires from Echovald Forest.

> Ritualist is a big no for Necromancer I'm afraid.

 

My idea was to lose shroud but gain vampiric form. Life force turns into bloodlust. While in vampiric form all skills apply bleed and you heal for 10% outgoing damage. I want to give it thief feel in vampiric form with teleports and hard hitting skills

[Sigmoid.7082]

For me I would like something that isn't an accentuation of any existing themes. I.e no spec focused on minions or life stealing.

 

Only thing we know for sure it that it will have to have some way of entering "shroud" and being "shroud" as well as having some equivalent of shroud #1,#2 , and ,#4 all due to traits.

[Anchoku.8142]

To all the people who want more minions, "more AI" was tried and failed. Instead, think about how Soul Beast works and imagine Necro with something similar but not as good so it will not compete with Ranger.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> To all the people who want more minions, "more AI" was tried and failed. Instead, think about how Soul Beast works and imagine Necro with something similar but not as good so it will not compete with Ranger.

 

Personally, my next dream elite spec for necro would be something mobile good mobility. Maybe have a shroud around teleports and evades.

 

I know that from experience other classes who dominate do so because things like mobility and evade invulns are king. Invulns are exactly necro but i've seen monsters with teleports, so why can't we be developed around ports? That boss from fractals i don't know the name but she has tons of ground stuff she is kinda necro like, the one with fields of bombs and has buncha illusions.

 

Take out illusions and give us ports combine it with that knife a fast vampire spec that is about draining people's life, possibly giving it to others and make it the healer necro spec and boom I'm happy, plus if it has comparable teleports to other specs and evades to stay alive.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Elric.4713" said:

> I'd like Vampiric theme the most, they can tie it in with Hopping Vampires from Echovald Forest.

> Ritualist is a big no for Necromancer I'm afraid.

 

Well then I don't want ritualist to show up at all... I really don't want rev to be forced into that role. I say let the necromance have it and get a slight theme change with spirits, ashes and so on maybe get some Bone shields and wall spells as well. Heck maybe let them get sword and shield and make them something of a warrior, that takes the ritualists teachings and uses it to hold the line.

 

Revenants need something a bit cooler, something not so limited. Ritualists are super close to both guardians and necromancers within this game; I feel like Revenant really can get anything (Kalla had nothing to do with PoF)

[Elric.4713]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Elric.4713" said:

> > I'd like Vampiric theme the most, they can tie it in with Hopping Vampires from Echovald Forest.

> > Ritualist is a big no for Necromancer I'm afraid.

>

> Well then I don't want ritualist to show up at all... I really don't want rev to be forced into that role. I say let the necromance have it and get a slight theme change with spirits, ashes and so on maybe get some Bone shields and wall spells as well. Heck maybe let them get sword and shield and make them something of a warrior, that takes the ritualists teachings and uses it to hold the line.

>

> Revenants need something a bit cooler, something not so limited. Ritualists are super close to both guardians and necromancers within this game; I feel like Revenant really can get anything (Kalla had nothing to do with PoF)

 

Revenant already has the most in common thematically with the Ritualist, whether you or some other Necromancers on this forum would like to admit. But that's not the topic here, if you like there's one in the Revenant section.

[Methuselah.4376]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> To all the people who want more minions, "more AI" was tried and failed. Instead, think about how Soul Beast works and imagine Necro with something similar but not as good so it will not compete with Ranger.

 

Rather than "Not as good" why not do a different thing altogether? Necro shouldn't be getting cheap imitations of other specs....we do enough things that others do but worse.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

I think Necro needs a true range option as the bulk of what we currently have is under powered compared to every other range class in the game today. Vampiric could be interesting if you could actually drain from a distance.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> To all the people who want more minions, "more AI" was tried and failed. Instead, think about how Soul Beast works and imagine Necro with something similar but not as good so it will not compete with Ranger.

 

Personally, it's not that I want minions, it's more that it feel like it's the safest bet. A "minion" e-spec scream slow caster that throw health point (in form of minions) in front of danger to save it's own a**. Thematically it couldn't be more fitting either.

 

As for the "soulbeast mechanism" thing the necromancer already have it in the form of the "shroud" (be it DS, RS or desert shroud all of them provide the necromancer with some (a lot, actually) extra stats if traited properly).

 

The real issue with the necromancer is more to have the e-spec mechanism get along with the core traits. Scourge (and reaper) proved that some shroud traits easily become broken when they try new things with the necromancer's mechanism. There is truly much work to do on core traits to avoid all the blunders that scourge have gone through. (Well It's not like I believe that ANet's devs will actually do a wise thing once in a while and actually fix issues before introducing a new round of balance hazard)

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Elric.4713" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"Elric.4713" said:

> > > I'd like Vampiric theme the most, they can tie it in with Hopping Vampires from Echovald Forest.

> > > Ritualist is a big no for Necromancer I'm afraid.

> >

> > Well then I don't want ritualist to show up at all... I really don't want rev to be forced into that role. I say let the necromance have it and get a slight theme change with spirits, ashes and so on maybe get some Bone shields and wall spells as well. Heck maybe let them get sword and shield and make them something of a warrior, that takes the ritualists teachings and uses it to hold the line.

> >

> > Revenants need something a bit cooler, something not so limited. Ritualists are super close to both guardians and necromancers within this game; I feel like Revenant really can get anything (Kalla had nothing to do with PoF)

>

> Revenant already has the most in common thematically with the Ritualist, whether you or some other Necromancers on this forum would like to admit. But that's not the topic here, if you like there's one in the Revenant section.

 

I don't really care for necromancer in guild wars 2 (Was much better in GW1), Im a rev main and as a rev main I don't want ritualist on this class mainly because Its too samey. We have the aesthetic sure but just because we have blind folds doesn't mean we are the same. If you go by that logic than demon hunters from wow are essentially ritualists as well, blind-fold parties all around! In all seriousness though they use two different types of magic, Ritualists use souls and tap into the dead and not the mists themselves where as the mists are an inbetween of infinite realities and memories of said realities. For example Shiro exists in the mists, but the shiro we know was sealed and or killed within the domain of anguish and his soul was freed and allowed to pass into its true destination (Whatever that may be) in a side quest.

 

Revenants are not Ritualists and they have little in common outside of aesthetic in their armor, to some degree. But Ritualists are just a different form of necromancy which is probably why they are not their own class; You could see them working Rit into necromancer easily. The ashes could be their ulities functioning similarly to Glint's up-keep skills where you need soul energy (Shroud) to keep them going. Your passive summons spirits through you and brings them to the physical world who will remain while your in combat, and based on trait decisions they can be damage or support or a hybrid of both.

 

Then your shroud skills could be perhaps a mixture of skills such as splintered weapons, and other boons as well combat effects such as "Sacrifice" where you mark an enemy and deal more damage to them while constantly siphoning essence and health from them. Then your weapon skills could be your channeling spells this way the whole class is represented and is not limited by features, If you go with rev you will loose a lot of that. Mainly because I doubt they will remove the legend swap mechanic and you'd have to fit it into what we already have. Plus Ritualist was a light armor class, necromancer is as well and with Ritualist we could get mobility which is something necromancers lack and it opens the door for the ritualist to be our highly mobile, sustained-burst/support dps spec. They then could rework scourge to be strictly support or dps and reaper would be your frontline spec. The first two e-specs and core lack the mobility and sustained punching power, but make up for it in burst and utility that is unique to them.

 

Plus there are no legendary figures outside of Togo and Razah who fit the bill for a legendary rit, and Razah could become ANY class and was not limited to remaining as a rit so I doubt it would be him. And togo would be a boring choice and one Id hate, which means we would be stuck with another meh character that would bring nothing new to the revenant... however the spec WOULD bring new mechanics and gameplay to the necro..

 

Look at it like this, A-net will do whatever makes it the most new and interesting. Revenant would not be that for this spec infact Id dare to say that it would feel much like core revenant if not a little more limited. Necromancer would not only fit the theme better but would also give the spec some more wiggle room due to core having some interesting mechanics, imagine a death magic/soul-reaping/ritualist build? Or one with blood magic utilizing their restoration skills. The possibilities are endless and the theory craft is vast (plus they could give you ritualist cosmetics for the necromancer, change its coloring for the new specs skills to be a more blueish green and there. Bam. Ready to go.)

[Elric.4713]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Elric.4713" said:

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > @"Elric.4713" said:

> > > > I'd like Vampiric theme the most, they can tie it in with Hopping Vampires from Echovald Forest.

> > > > Ritualist is a big no for Necromancer I'm afraid.

> > >

> > > Well then I don't want ritualist to show up at all... I really don't want rev to be forced into that role. I say let the necromance have it and get a slight theme change with spirits, ashes and so on maybe get some Bone shields and wall spells as well. Heck maybe let them get sword and shield and make them something of a warrior, that takes the ritualists teachings and uses it to hold the line.

> > >

> > > Revenants need something a bit cooler, something not so limited. Ritualists are super close to both guardians and necromancers within this game; I feel like Revenant really can get anything (Kalla had nothing to do with PoF)

> >

> > Revenant already has the most in common thematically with the Ritualist, whether you or some other Necromancers on this forum would like to admit. But that's not the topic here, if you like there's one in the Revenant section.

>

> I don't really care for necromancer in guild wars 2 (Was much better in GW1), Im a rev main and as a rev main I don't want ritualist on this class mainly because Its too samey. We have the aesthetic sure but just because we have blind folds doesn't mean we are the same. If you go by that logic than demon hunters from wow are essentially ritualists as well, blind-fold parties all around! In all seriousness though they use two different types of magic, Ritualists use souls and tap into the dead and not the mists themselves where as the mists are an inbetween of infinite realities and memories of said realities. For example Shiro exists in the mists, but the shiro we know was sealed and or killed within the domain of anguish and his soul was freed and allowed to pass into its true destination (Whatever that may be) in a side quest.

>

> Revenants are not Ritualists and they have little in common outside of aesthetic in their armor, to some degree. But Ritualists are just a different form of necromancy which is probably why they are not their own class; You could see them working Rit into necromancer easily. The ashes could be their ulities functioning similarly to Glint's up-keep skills where you need soul energy (Shroud) to keep them going. Your passive summons spirits through you and brings them to the physical world who will remain while your in combat, and based on trait decisions they can be damage or support or a hybrid of both.

>

> Then your shroud skills could be perhaps a mixture of skills such as splintered weapons, and other boons as well combat effects such as "Sacrifice" where you mark an enemy and deal more damage to them while constantly siphoning essence and health from them. Then your weapon skills could be your channeling spells this way the whole class is represented and is not limited by features, If you go with rev you will loose a lot of that. Mainly because I doubt they will remove the legend swap mechanic and you'd have to fit it into what we already have. Plus Ritualist was a light armor class, necromancer is as well and with Ritualist we could get mobility which is something necromancers lack and it opens the door for the ritualist to be our highly mobile, sustained-burst/support dps spec. They then could rework scourge to be strictly support or dps and reaper would be your frontline spec. The first two e-specs and core lack the mobility and sustained punching power, but make up for it in burst and utility that is unique to them.

>

> Plus there are no legendary figures outside of Togo and Razah who fit the bill for a legendary rit, and Razah could become ANY class and was not limited to remaining as a rit so I doubt it would be him. And togo would be a boring choice and one Id hate, which means we would be stuck with another meh character that would bring nothing new to the revenant... however the spec WOULD bring new mechanics and gameplay to the necro..

>

> Look at it like this, A-net will do whatever makes it the most new and interesting. Revenant would not be that for this spec infact Id dare to say that it would feel much like core revenant if not a little more limited. Necromancer would not only fit the theme better but would also give the spec some more wiggle room due to core having some interesting mechanics, imagine a death magic/soul-reaping/ritualist build? Or one with blood magic utilizing their restoration skills. The possibilities are endless and the theory craft is vast (plus they could give you ritualist cosmetics for the necromancer, change its coloring for the new specs skills to be a more blueish green and there. Bam. Ready to go.)

 

Like i already said, if you want to continue this discussion move it to the Ritualist thread in the Revenant section.