Condi rev is insanely broken, when will Anet fix it?

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Torment is comply broken its on classes who can move in combat very fast. The ideal of torment was for classes who had bad combat speed to counter ppl from ruining away.

 

Wasn't torment added to mesmers, thieves and necros at pretty much the same time? If that was the original idea, they abandoned it in vanilla.

[Auburner.6945]

Lots of torment application with tons of other conditions to prevent cleansing, all while tanking like a pre-patch Defense SpB... add a (hybrid) Firebrand to the mixture, stir it well... oh wow!

[Bezerker.2379]

protip: its not tormenting thats causing the issue. The heal is absymal per application.

 

It's that combined with core rev, jalis hammers, and retribution steadfast recovery.

 

 

[Teratus.2859]

Ahh so this must be the build I came across today in WvW.

 

Very strong indeed but a lot of fun to fight against, although granted in a 1v1 scenario it would obliterate me haha

[bluberblasen.9684]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Torment is comply broken its on classes who can move in combat very fast. The ideal of torment was for classes who had bad combat speed to counter ppl from ruining away.

 

Torment is one of the worst decision a company could make..

You get punished for beeing agile ... LOL

you should be punished when you are NOT agile... when you are playing BAD - not for playing well.

...

[lare.5129]

As for mew the condi rev is works as should. Don't see anything broken. Someone should win and dominate.

If someone lose 1:100 - this is also ok. Not ready change class or find zerg on wvw is not other players problem.

 

Also main idea of www no matter who win 1 vs 1, main thing - is zerg, tactic, and skilled comm.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > Torment is comply broken its on classes who can move in combat very fast. The ideal of torment was for classes who had bad combat speed to counter ppl from ruining away.

>

> Torment is one of the worst decision a company could make..

> You get punished for beeing agile ... LOL

> you should be punished when you are NOT agile... when you are playing BAD - not for playing well.

> ...

 

There should definitively be mechanics that punish high mobility.

 

Torment is poorly designed because it doesn't actually punish anything, everyone is always moving in WvW, 99% of the time unless stunned or immobilized.

 

It should punish movement skills, not movement.

 

Basedmg should be a bit below current levels while moving like 0.07-0.08 instead of 0.09 and it should do a burst of dmg when the enemy uses a movement skill, similar to confusion but targeted on a subtype of skills, then it would actually punish high mobility builds,

 

Right now it's just bleeding with more dmg. But a bit less dmg if event is CCed.

[lare.5129]

people talk about "oh, they hurt us and prevent look that debuf and condition we have ? "

or some part of talk hidden for me ?

[Jski.6180]

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > Torment is comply broken its on classes who can move in combat very fast. The ideal of torment was for classes who had bad combat speed to counter ppl from ruining away.

>

> Wasn't torment added to mesmers, thieves and necros at pretty much the same time? If that was the original idea, they abandoned it in vanilla.

 

It looks like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2013-06-25#Profession_Skills is the update that added in torment shame i cant find the post about talking about why they put it in but it was just for necro and mostly is DS. Mesmer got torment at a later date it looks like. I would like better to work out what they said word for word about why they are adding in torment as a link i can post here but from what i remember it was about keeping ppl from moving so it was on classes that could not move well DS core necor was the main class.

 

In its current state for the classes that its on and the effects they have torment is a broken condi that should be less useful then bleed for dmg only. Rev condi apply a lot of torment and it is an unbalanced classes because of it (i am also suggesting mesmer condi as well at one point but that did get nerf).

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > Torment is comply broken its on classes who can move in combat very fast. The ideal of torment was for classes who had bad combat speed to counter ppl from ruining away.

> >

> > Wasn't torment added to mesmers, thieves and necros at pretty much the same time? If that was the original idea, they abandoned it in vanilla.

>

> It looks like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2013-06-25#Profession_Skills is the update that added in torment shame i cant find the post about talking about why they put it in but it was just for necro and mostly is DS. Mesmer got torment at a later date it looks like. I would like better to work out what they said word for word about why they are adding in torment as a link i can post here but from what i remember it was about keeping ppl from moving so it was on classes that could not move well DS core necor was the main class.

>

> In its current state for the classes that its on and the effects they have torment is a broken condi that should be less useful then bleed for dmg only. Rev condi apply a lot of torment and it is an unbalanced classes because of it (i am also suggesting mesmer condi as well at one point but that did get nerf).

 

That's fair enough, thanks for looking into it. I remember thief and mesmer having access to it before rev was introduced (sharing venoms with thieves guild used to be a hilarious way to kill people), but honestly it's quite a long time ago now so I'm sorry my memory was fuzzy.

 

Honestly current condi rev feels dangerous less because of the torment and more because of the burn imo. As others have pointed out, torment isn't as high a damage condition as you might think, the thing is that rev can use rapid torment application to cover burns in the same way thief can use rapid bleed application to cover poisons. If burn damage is toned down, which seems likely given the number of burn guards doing pretty obscene things still, condi rev might actually find itself balanced without any other changes.

[Bezerker.2379]

Torment was their answer to making necros feel unique since mesmer had confusion as its thing, and necro had bleed but so did everyone else.

[Sunshine.5014]

They really need to nerf Condi Rev in both WvW and PvP. The damage is way too much.

[primatos.5413]

In general still way too much builds out there overperforming in some ways ..hope they get fixed before expansion drops :anguished:

[jpsssss.7530]

Condi rev gets hard countered by scourge. because boon corrupts... It has very few condi clears and if you point at centaur then you lose your right to complain. there ain't nobody running centaur on a condi rev.

[Sviel.7493]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780"

What happens when a necro is capping a ring? Sure, you could run away, but that means losing everything it decides to take.

 

I'm not trying to comment on the larger balance issues or non-issues--just looking for potential alternate solutions.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Sviel.7493" said:

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780"

> What happens when a necro is capping a ring? Sure, you could run away, but that means losing everything it decides to take.

>

> I'm not trying to comment on the larger balance issues or non-issues--just looking for potential alternate solutions.

 

( Literally browsing this forum the last hour because I'm painfully bored... )

 

You have a point, but from experience as a roamer, 99% of the time if a fight in a Camp/Objective lasts longer than 60 seconds, others will join. There are times this isn't true, like off hours or distant supply camps ( South on APBL, Speldan which has been bugged since forever and doesn't get contested, etc. ), but in general it's a race against the clock if you want the Objective and not a fight.

 

Still, this brings me back to my point about other classes having better options. Not all too long ago I spent _10 minutes_ trying to kill a support Firebrand that was trying to stop me from capturing Rogue's Quarry in EBG. Granted I was playing a Condition build without many cover Conditions so I could have been playing something better, the point is that most classes can do this anyway with most having better damage to boot.

 

Since the patch I've yet to meet one of these Signet Necro's I couldn't kill or that was such an issue in a situation like capturing a Supply Camp that I was forced to leave. My experience doesn't dictate the effectiveness or presence of the build, but just saying I still don't think it's an issue.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > Core bunker necro is a joke. I've fought dozens of them now and I just punch them for 30 seconds until they die. That's it. They can't even fight back. They can't run away. I don't even need to heal. They are a joke. Today I've beaten a duo of these. First I focussed the first one, stunned the second for 2 seconds, stomped the first one and then killed the second one.

> >

> Playing with what, may I ask? I've witnessed a Core Necro require 3 players to take down. Myself and 2 other roamers took at least 30 seconds to burn through his shroud and then Lich form. I can't even imagine what that would have looked like had it been 1v1.

>

 

for 8 years; Necromancer Profession was the punching bag Profession; being the first target to be killed and being the last to escape dying. The first Profession to sacrifice themselves for others knowing that they will likely die once the enemy zerges arrives, No other Professions would ever would wanted to take their place of being the easy target until now.

 

Don't you think after so many lonely..painful years, Necromancer deserves to feel alive.....a little bit longer?

 


 

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > Core bunker necro is a joke. I've fought dozens of them now and I just punch them for 30 seconds until they die. That's it. They can't even fight back. They can't run away. I don't even need to heal. They are a joke. Today I've beaten a duo of these. First I focussed the first one, stunned the second for 2 seconds, stomped the first one and then killed the second one.

> > >

> > Playing with what, may I ask? I've witnessed a Core Necro require 3 players to take down. Myself and 2 other roamers took at least 30 seconds to burn through his shroud and then Lich form. I can't even imagine what that would have looked like had it been 1v1.

> >

>

> for 8 years; Necromancer Profession was the punching bag Profession; being the first target to be killed and being the last to escape dying. The first Profession to sacrifice themselves for others knowing that they will likely die once the enemy zerges arrives, No other Professions would ever would wanted to take their place of being the easy target until now.

>

> Don't you think after so many lonely..painful years, Necromancer deserves to feel alive.....a little bit longer?

>

> 

>

 

Well said. ?

[sneakytails.5629]

That is a Teddy Bear not a Necro stop trying to confuse us.

[Thornwolf.9721]

Nerf rune of tormenting and the power of condi-rev will drop off, ALOT of their sustain comes from that rune which is why its not in PvP as an option.

 

You could nerf trailblazers but I don't see the point honestly, the set is strong but its only really strong in conjunction with runes like the rune of tormenting who heals based on the damage torment is doing. (It already got hit with a nerf not long ago.)

[Slick.7164]

Give them all easy 100% stealth. Let one player ruin 50 peeps game. We do it with thief, do it with all the professions.. Give condi/torment rev passive stealth.

[Virdo.1540]

At first concentrate on the main issue.

Thiefs permastealth & their exploits... make it not be stackable ,like superspeed.

 

then we can talk about rev

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> At first concentrate on the main issue.

> Thiefs permastealth & their exploits... make it not be stackable ,like superspeed.

>

> then we can talk about rev

 

So basically delete thief as a class cuz it uses a mechanic that allows it to do the one good thing it can do in wvw, roam. But leave rev for now cus it's not as annoying to u as thief personally even though its stronger than thief in roaming and zerg play. Example of a biased post with zero regard for actual health of the game. Imagine how bad a condi rev would have to be to lose to a thief while roaming lol.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> many lonely..painful years,

 

Huh? Necromancers have minions by the truckload! How could they ever feel lonely? Neither Ele, Ranger or even Renegade can summon as many friends as the Necro, and while Engys can bring out about as many turrets, all they are good for is to hang their laundry on to dry.

 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > many lonely..painful years,

>

> Huh? Necromancers have minions by the truckload! How could they ever feel lonely? Neither Ele, Ranger or even Renegade can summon as many friends as the Necro, and while Engys can bring out about as many turrets, all they are good for is to hang their laundry on to dry.

>

>

 

compare with the other Professions 'pets', how long does Necromancer Profession survives just as Necromancer did before? Interesting quite enough, even 'tank' Necromancer now aren't even using minions so yeah!! we are use to it, with our pets being useless to us so, this is our way of survival.