Virdo.1540 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > At first concentrate on the main issue. > > Thiefs permastealth & their exploits... make it not be stackable ,like superspeed. > > > > then we can talk about rev > > So basically delete thief as a class cuz it uses a mechanic that allows it to do the one good thing it can do in wvw, roam. But leave rev for now cus it's not as annoying to u as thief personally even though its stronger than thief in roaming and zerg play. Example of a biased post with zero regard for actual health of the game. Imagine how bad a condi rev would have to be to lose to a thief while roaming lol. ye that would be pretty bad. But just to mention, thief doesnt completely rely on permastealth. It has enough stealth skills, but permastealth allows them to exploit really hard. Rev is just an effective condi-spike reflection with an immunity. Nothing else. Without condi meta, there wouldnt be condi revs. Thats why the most people come here to the forum and complain. Like many Burnguards that spam every burn-skill on a rev and get killed in one second cuz of the condi-reflect. lol And this is not the place for roam-zergplay comparisons. Holos, Rangers, thiefs, ..... even renegades can complain about "not being able to play in zergs". This is another topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Can be kited. Move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > At first concentrate on the main issue. > > > Thiefs permastealth & their exploits... make it not be stackable ,like superspeed. > > > > > > then we can talk about rev > > > > So basically delete thief as a class cuz it uses a mechanic that allows it to do the one good thing it can do in wvw, roam. But leave rev for now cus it's not as annoying to u as thief personally even though its stronger than thief in roaming and zerg play. Example of a biased post with zero regard for actual health of the game. Imagine how bad a condi rev would have to be to lose to a thief while roaming lol. > > ye that would be pretty bad. But just to mention, thief doesnt completely rely on permastealth. It has enough stealth skills, but permastealth allows them to exploit really hard. > > Rev is just an effective condi-spike reflection with an immunity. Nothing else. Without condi meta, there wouldnt be condi revs. > Thats why the most people come here to the forum and complain. Like many Burnguards that spam every burn-skill on a rev and get killed in one second cuz of the condi-reflect. lol > > And this is not the place for roam-zergplay comparisons. Holos, Rangers, thiefs, ..... even renegades can complain about "not being able to play in zergs". This is another topic Thief not being stealth dependent is very build dependent. Ur not wrong about sd,sp or staff builds not being stealth dependent but with all the changes to thief and other classes over the years dp is definitely dependent on near perma stealth unfortunately. With thief damage being where it's at without near perma stealth access dp would get wrecked by any class unless ur opponent was new, especially in wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virdo.1540 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > At first concentrate on the main issue. > > > > Thiefs permastealth & their exploits... make it not be stackable ,like superspeed. > > > > > > > > then we can talk about rev > > > > > > So basically delete thief as a class cuz it uses a mechanic that allows it to do the one good thing it can do in wvw, roam. But leave rev for now cus it's not as annoying to u as thief personally even though its stronger than thief in roaming and zerg play. Example of a biased post with zero regard for actual health of the game. Imagine how bad a condi rev would have to be to lose to a thief while roaming lol. > > > > ye that would be pretty bad. But just to mention, thief doesnt completely rely on permastealth. It has enough stealth skills, but permastealth allows them to exploit really hard. > > > > Rev is just an effective condi-spike reflection with an immunity. Nothing else. Without condi meta, there wouldnt be condi revs. > > Thats why the most people come here to the forum and complain. Like many Burnguards that spam every burn-skill on a rev and get killed in one second cuz of the condi-reflect. lol > > > > And this is not the place for roam-zergplay comparisons. Holos, Rangers, thiefs, ..... even renegades can complain about "not being able to play in zergs". This is another topic > > Thief not being stealth dependent is very build dependent. Ur not wrong about sd,sp or staff builds not being stealth dependent but with all the changes to thief and other classes over the years dp is definitely dependent on near perma stealth unfortunately. With thief damage being where it's at without near perma stealth access dp would get wrecked by any class unless ur opponent was new, especially in wvw. ye ... my problem is not that thief can be near permastealth, which is perfectly fine. But they shouldnt be able to generate more stealth than it can expire. This is incredibly broken and destroys many game mechanics, especially the "out of combat" crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalakka.4653 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Necro needs to be nerfed hard because thief has too much stealth and condi rev something something. And remove that remaining dodge from Mirage already ffs. WvW should be nothing but two Healway Guardians dueling - good thing we're already halfway there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 For it effects and boons as well as its base hp / def there a real problem with this class balancing. It can just do too much too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 The build pretty much plays the game for you on almost all matchups. Rune of Tormenting is a strong contender for a nerf, but Trailblazer's gear in general should be changed or removed completely for the health of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahm.7056 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Condi rev was already ridiculous in the right hands, now it's outright unplayable, good luck if you're going against a duo and the rev has a minimal amount of support and peel, just jump off a cliff and do yourself a favor. Regading core necro, I'm playing it and I have to say it only works against those who completely disregard its strengths, they see a core necro profession icon and they rub their hands thinking it's an easy lootbag ready to cash out. It could be the case if you're not going for a battle of attrition, which is the core necro specialty and if you're going for that then you will get your ass handed to any semi competent core necro every single time, even if you're outnumbering it 2 to 1. Use range, burst, CC, core necro is a complete sponge devoid of any blocks, evades or stealth, the only juke potential it can pull off is with flesh wurm (which can be unpredictable because of pathing issues) and that recall spectral mist if you fall for it. Those complaining about core necros, should review their knowledge of the game and professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > Nerf rune of tormenting and the power of condi-rev will drop off, ALOT of their sustain comes from that rune which is why its not in PvP as an option. > > You could nerf trailblazers but I don't see the point honestly, the set is strong but its only really strong in conjunction with runes like the rune of tormenting who heals based on the damage torment is doing. (It already got hit with a nerf not long ago.) You may already know this, but tormenting rune doesn't heal based on torment damage. It gives a small heal per stack of torment applied to any target, making AoE torment like rev has on mallyx pretty nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"msalakka.4653" said: > Necro needs to be nerfed hard because thief has too much stealth and condi rev something something. And remove that remaining dodge from Mirage already kitten. WvW should be nothing but two Healway Guardians dueling - good thing we're already halfway there. Necromancer is a condition base Profession and Revenant Profession is not. (Absolutely no professions condition damages must excel Necromancer conditions.) So this is why Revenant Profession must be seriously, harshly dealt with and leave high condition damages to its rightful profession- Necromancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen.6021 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > Can be kited. Move along. Most builds cant, also imagine kiting while u have perma 10 torment stacks, good luck running away. Anyway the problem is mostly when fights are 3v3 or 5v5, that kind of small scale roaming. And of course if you have pugs around they will just melt and rally bot, because they will keep moving. If people cant realize how broken is, and instead complain about thief, then im done no reason to keep reading forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Mechanix.9315" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > Can be kited. Move along. > > Most builds cant, also imagine kiting while u have perma 10 torment stacks, good luck running away. > > Anyway the problem is mostly when fights are 3v3 or 5v5, that kind of small scale roaming. And of course if you have pugs around they will just melt and rally bot, because they will keep moving. > > If people cant realize how broken is, and instead complain about thief, then im done no reason to keep reading forums. it is broken and an insult to Necromancer Profession. side note: Superior Rune/Sigil of Tormenting is designed to be mastered with only two Professions- Necromancer and Mesmer. How does Revenant Profession using Torment triumphed over others at ease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen.6021 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Mechanix.9315" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > Can be kited. Move along. > > > > Most builds cant, also imagine kiting while u have perma 10 torment stacks, good luck running away. > > > > Anyway the problem is mostly when fights are 3v3 or 5v5, that kind of small scale roaming. And of course if you have pugs around they will just melt and rally bot, because they will keep moving. > > > > If people cant realize how broken is, and instead complain about thief, then im done no reason to keep reading forums. > > > > it is broken and an insult to Necromancer Profession That guy is even skill clicking :facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Mechanix.9315" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"Mechanix.9315" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > Can be kited. Move along. > > > > > > Most builds cant, also imagine kiting while u have perma 10 torment stacks, good luck running away. > > > > > > Anyway the problem is mostly when fights are 3v3 or 5v5, that kind of small scale roaming. And of course if you have pugs around they will just melt and rally bot, because they will keep moving. > > > > > > If people cant realize how broken is, and instead complain about thief, then im done no reason to keep reading forums. > > > > > > > > it is broken and an insult to Necromancer Profession > > That guy is even skill clicking :facepalm: Aaron played well, it is Revenant Profession mechanics and skill designs which need to be seriously addressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Mechanix.9315" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > Can be kited. Move along. > > > > Most builds cant, also imagine kiting while u have perma 10 torment stacks, good luck running away. > > > > Anyway the problem is mostly when fights are 3v3 or 5v5, that kind of small scale roaming. And of course if you have pugs around they will just melt and rally bot, because they will keep moving. > > > > If people cant realize how broken is, and instead complain about thief, then im done no reason to keep reading forums. > > > > it is broken and an insult to Necromancer Profession. > side note: Superior Rune/Sigil of Tormenting is designed to be mastered with only two Professions- Necromancer and Mesmer. How does Revenant Profession using Torment triumphed over others at ease? Soulbeast in 1st fight wasn't that great tbh. Aside from that, kills are too slow for it to be considered 'broken". Core ear near end wasn't running a lot of clears you normally see. Side note, if you are gonna make a vid with talking, reduce the volume of the game so you can actually be heard lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"Mechanix.9315" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > Can be kited. Move along. > > > > > > Most builds cant, also imagine kiting while u have perma 10 torment stacks, good luck running away. > > > > > > Anyway the problem is mostly when fights are 3v3 or 5v5, that kind of small scale roaming. And of course if you have pugs around they will just melt and rally bot, because they will keep moving. > > > > > > If people cant realize how broken is, and instead complain about thief, then im done no reason to keep reading forums. > > > > > > > > it is broken and an insult to Necromancer Profession. > > side note: Superior Rune/Sigil of Tormenting is designed to be mastered with only two Professions- Necromancer and Mesmer. How does Revenant Profession using Torment triumphed over others at ease? > > Soulbeast in 1st fight wasn't that great tbh. Aside from that, kills are too slow for it to be considered 'broken". Core ear near end wasn't running a lot of clears you normally see. > > Side note, if you are gonna make a vid with talking, reduce the volume of the game so you can actually be heard lol. What does the video show? - The rev was basicly 1 stun from death in the first fight. - The rev lost 80% hp to an ele maintaining 10% hp. - The rev won the last fight because of sheer luck of the warrior making an *incredibly* poor entrance. Whats the video **supposed** to show? Sidenote: the talking is youtube clip in the background I guess, the hardware reviewer with the headbanger hair. I forget the channel name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Mechanix.9315" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > Can be kited. Move along. > > > > Most builds cant, also imagine kiting while u have perma 10 torment stacks, good luck running away. > > > > Anyway the problem is mostly when fights are 3v3 or 5v5, that kind of small scale roaming. And of course if you have pugs around they will just melt and rally bot, because they will keep moving. > > > > If people cant realize how broken is, and instead complain about thief, then im done no reason to keep reading forums. > > > > it is broken and an insult to Necromancer Profession. > side note: Superior Rune/Sigil of Tormenting is designed to be mastered with only two Professions- Necromancer and Mesmer. How does Revenant Profession using Torment triumphed over others at ease? According to who was tormenting runes made for necro and mesmer? Condi revenant has been torment based since it's launch. Tormenting runes was "added" later (well the heal was). Necromancer has very low amounts of torment (scourge has a bit more). The video shows some mediocre gameplay against what I assume to be very new players. The player also almost dies in most fights, somehow. 1v2s happen commonly on any profession. They're not exactly proof of brokenness. > @"Mechanix.9315" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > Can be kited. Move along. > > Most builds cant, also imagine kiting while u have perma 10 torment stacks, good luck running away. > > Anyway the problem is mostly when fights are 3v3 or 5v5, that kind of small scale roaming. And of course if you have pugs around they will just melt and rally bot, because they will keep moving. > > If people cant realize how broken is, and instead complain about thief, then im done no reason to keep reading forums. Have you tried sigil of cleansing? There's exactly 1 reason to struggle with condi rev and that's the Herald transfer being absolutely broken (and should be nerfed), but only really a problem if you play condi. The rest of the class is slow, with bad stab access/very bad stunbreaks and no range, if you can't deal with that then that's on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffler.1257 Posted March 26, 2020 Author Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"Mechanix.9315" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > Can be kited. Move along. > > > > > > > > Most builds cant, also imagine kiting while u have perma 10 torment stacks, good luck running away. > > > > > > > > Anyway the problem is mostly when fights are 3v3 or 5v5, that kind of small scale roaming. And of course if you have pugs around they will just melt and rally bot, because they will keep moving. > > > > > > > > If people cant realize how broken is, and instead complain about thief, then im done no reason to keep reading forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > it is broken and an insult to Necromancer Profession. > > > side note: Superior Rune/Sigil of Tormenting is designed to be mastered with only two Professions- Necromancer and Mesmer. How does Revenant Profession using Torment triumphed over others at ease? > > > > Soulbeast in 1st fight wasn't that great tbh. Aside from that, kills are too slow for it to be considered 'broken". Core ear near end wasn't running a lot of clears you normally see. > > > > Side note, if you are gonna make a vid with talking, reduce the volume of the game so you can actually be heard lol. > What does the video show? > > - The rev was basicly 1 stun from death in the first fight. > - The rev lost 80% hp to an ele maintaining 10% hp. > - The rev won the last fight because of sheer luck of the warrior making an *incredibly* poor entrance. > > Whats the video **supposed** to show? > > Sidenote: the talking is youtube clip in the background I guess, the hardware reviewer with the headbanger hair. I forget the channel name. I think the video is supposed to show that even a skill clicker can win outnumbered fights on condi rev, though I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain.1659 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Interesting arguments. Condi rev needs nerfing true. Needs a heavy nerf. But rev profession needs a buff and a rework too and without that condi rev is the only playable build rev has. Core necro also needs a nerf, in the tankyness part. Dont you necro players feel angry about the skill level drop? Necro is so easy nowadays and all my necro main friends are uunappy with this. Thief mobility needs nerf. But it does not need more initiative cost increase ( poison immob thief needs a total obliteration). Just like rev does not need more energy cost increase. Rework those two well and stop forcing them to play gimmick builds. There are so many op/bugged builds to talk about but as rev, thief and necro names were uttered I only included those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroud.2307 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"alain.1659" said: > Core necro also needs a nerf, in the tankyness part. Dont you necro players feel angry about the skill level drop? Necro is so easy nowadays and all my necro main friends are uunappy with this. I enjoy walking away from them unfazed as they try desperately to stop me before they either give up and feel stupid or chase long enough I leash them in to a group. That, so far, has been how I've dealt with most I've encountered and I imagine that humiliation sits with them a while. I'm only unhappy with the people complaining about it being "OP" for no reason other than that it has a lot of health. I think there are things that could use some adjustments to reduce it's durability but I don't think anything major needs to be done. It's useless outside of being a lightning rod in groups for the people who haven't gotten the memo that some Necro builds take longer than a few seconds to focus down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klypto.1703 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > At first concentrate on the main issue. > > > Thiefs permastealth & their exploits... make it not be stackable ,like superspeed. > > > > > > then we can talk about rev > > > > So basically delete thief as a class cuz it uses a mechanic that allows it to do the one good thing it can do in wvw, roam. But leave rev for now cus it's not as annoying to u as thief personally even though its stronger than thief in roaming and zerg play. Example of a biased post with zero regard for actual health of the game. Imagine how bad a condi rev would have to be to lose to a thief while roaming lol. > > ye that would be pretty bad. But just to mention, thief doesnt completely rely on permastealth. It has enough stealth skills, but permastealth allows them to exploit really hard. > > Rev is just an effective condi-spike reflection with an immunity. Nothing else. Without condi meta, there wouldnt be condi revs. > Thats why the most people come here to the forum and complain. Like many Burnguards that spam every burn-skill on a rev and get killed in one second cuz of the condi-reflect. lol > > And this is not the place for roam-zergplay comparisons. Holos, Rangers, thiefs, ..... even renegades can complain about "not being able to play in zergs". This is another topic At the point where mesmer and thief are pretty much deleted from wvw you can't possibly still be complaining about stealth there is no thief players left to use stealth lol. I mean at some point you gotta learn the difference between a thief using stealth and a thief not even logged into the game this is just really sad. I mean we are with the old eles, the mesmers, and the warrior players in the gw2 unemployment line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Klypto.1703" said: > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > At first concentrate on the main issue. > > > > Thiefs permastealth & their exploits... make it not be stackable ,like superspeed. > > > > > > > > then we can talk about rev > > > > > > So basically delete thief as a class cuz it uses a mechanic that allows it to do the one good thing it can do in wvw, roam. But leave rev for now cus it's not as annoying to u as thief personally even though its stronger than thief in roaming and zerg play. Example of a biased post with zero regard for actual health of the game. Imagine how bad a condi rev would have to be to lose to a thief while roaming lol. > > > > ye that would be pretty bad. But just to mention, thief doesnt completely rely on permastealth. It has enough stealth skills, but permastealth allows them to exploit really hard. > > > > Rev is just an effective condi-spike reflection with an immunity. Nothing else. Without condi meta, there wouldnt be condi revs. > > Thats why the most people come here to the forum and complain. Like many Burnguards that spam every burn-skill on a rev and get killed in one second cuz of the condi-reflect. lol > > > > And this is not the place for roam-zergplay comparisons. Holos, Rangers, thiefs, ..... even renegades can complain about "not being able to play in zergs". This is another topic > > At the point where mesmer and thief are pretty much deleted from wvw you can't possibly still be complaining about stealth there is no thief players left to use stealth lol. I mean at some point you gotta learn the difference between a thief using stealth and a thief not even logged into the game this is just really sad. I mean we are with the old eles, the mesmers, and the warrior players in the gw2 unemployment line. Lol I left thief for warrior cuz just not fun to play now after the anet team and community ruined the class and now warrior doesnt even feel like a warrior so don't bother logging in. I mean with gw2 growing pvp population who cares right? Lol. Games like nioh and poe are feeling more enjoyable these days to play but that's me, good on the people who enjoy this pvp braindead condi spam meta of fb/burn guard, necro and condi rev with a sprinkle of condi weavers lol. Patch meant well but imo this is the most braindead condi spam bunker meta I've experienced and unless u bandwagon to those classes its zero fun and more frustrating than anything. And I'll say it for all those players that main those classes yeah yeah I need to get gud and learn to cleanse, as if that's enough these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > Can be kited. Move along. And its far weaker than before, people just never played much it before cause there easier and more rewarding builds... I could melt some classes in 3-5 seconds of keybahisng before sometimes less, i could hold VS 2-3 weavers/temps before... could reach stable 46 torment stacks after burn their condi cleanses, 2 revs could stable 68-70+ stacks :P of torment... After patch i need more effort overall... malyx under F2 from herald is just paying back the conditioin back to enemies.... if people play heavy condi expect heavy condi transfer back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroud.2307 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > And I'll say it for all those players that main those classes yeah yeah I need to get gud and learn to cleanse, as if that's enough these days. Nothing wrong with not enjoying something and saying it how it is. It's the people that think their opinions should dictate how balance is done that are the problem. Don't worry about anyone telling you to "git gud" if you're smart enough to understand getting better won't improve how you feel about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 I will say as far as priorities go I found less issues dealing with condi revs than with burn guards/fb and necro's. The burn condition seemed to have very high dot and each tick often equates to damage that equals a burst from another class and with re-aplications of the condition being so easy and abundant I think it's a issue that needs dealt with sooner rather than later. Also even if it means buffs in other areas the regeneration of shroud needs to be dealt with, as it stands now a necro can put up a decent fight with decent damage and if used right can use shroud when its nearing death continually in a fight often making them require 2 or more players to finish it off which is to much. Reducing necro's ability to use shroud as a carry mechanic by reducing its regen capabilities might be a decent answer to that issue. Compounding these issues is we have bunker classes that have great sustained damage but the games classes that were designed for spike damage have all been nerfed to the point their no longer threatning to bunkers due to nerfed spike damage relative to the sustain now mad worse by the fact they can return equal damage back to the burst class, so what's the point of burst classes anymore?. At this point I always ran say shake it off,brawlers recovery and a cleans sigil and even then it's just not enough, sure I could add a few more cleansing utilities but if a damage type is so effective that u have to tailor ur whole build and utilities around it than there's a problem. Condi revs are definitely over performing as well and needs some shaves but I think rev needs some positive love in other areas so they remain viable. After all more viable classes the better no matter ur personal feelings on some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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