Unholey.3264 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 You can spam 2.9 seconds of invuln every 4 seconds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aelska.4609 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"Unholey.3264" said: > You can spam 2.9 seconds of invuln every 4 seconds.... Not much different from weaver's evade frames :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Lol, bug or playing as intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylanna.1947 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 it has a 50 sec cooldown... where are you seeing 4 seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 That sounds very prestigious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"Sylanna.1947" said: > it has a 50 sec cooldown... where are you seeing 4 seconds? If you cancel the channel before it ends, the whole skill goes on a 4 sec Cooldown instead of the intended 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 I wondered all the time how cmc as Ele main could allow such a stupid change to his class but now i understand pog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty damn powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxic.3648 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 dw its working as intended. nothing to see here, move along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? This change is in one big way a buff from the previous version in that you can cancel it to go back on the offensive rather than having to wait for it to expire to do anything else. Channeled blocks like shield stance get deliberately canceled all the time once they have neutralized the attack they are needed for then straight back to attack which can now be done with obsi flesh. Still way weaker than the original version of the skill obviously and obviously not working as intended with short cd on canceling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > This change is in one big way a buff from the previous version in that you can cancel it to go back on the offensive rather than having to wait for it to expire to do anything else. Channeled blocks like shield stance get deliberately canceled all the time once they have neutralized the attack they are needed for then straight back to attack which can now be done with obsi flesh. Still way weaker than the original version of the skill obviously and obviously not working as intended with short cd on canceling it. There is a difference: Until now, you were not supposed to stop the invulnerability. Because you could not use the skill on point withour risking a decap (except one single tick or so?), so it used to be a risky choice for sidenoders. Just like Vapor Form or Elixir S. I admit, Renewed Focus was always different here, but that had its focus on the renewing of the Tome skills. I It opened a lot of necessary considerations somewhere else. And I do not think it is as powerful as all these rezz skills out there on far bunkier builds than tempest. Tempest has huge problems with rezzes, because most buuilds lack stability or have to sacrifice lots of boons. I don't think anyone saw this as a problem, so I hope, Elixir S will be brought in line too. Because it just seems like a random equalisation of a skill without any real balancing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. > > A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. Yes because turning an oh kitten button into something unusable when kitten jumps at you makes so much sense... The whole Obsidian change is completely nonsense right from start, there was no reason to change that skill, it was totally balanced compared to other invuln skills having additional effects/rewards to the invuln and less restrictions in accessibility. Also as now proven ingame it didn't even help a tiny bit to make sustain Ele builds less tanky or remarkable less impactful in dmg while being tanky. > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > Not being able to cast is fine and fair No it is not fair when looking at other invuln skills (just see above) and when considering why the skill was originally created like that on Ele. It might be endurable on braindead facetank meta bunker builds but for more skilled and squishy builds this is a horrible nonsense change. If you want to give bunker Eles more counter and less noobfriendly facetank sustain then there are a lot of other and better ways to do that without killing one of the very few ACTIVE defense tools more squishy and more skilled Ele builds have which depend on being able to attack while invuln. No clue what makes the current balance team think they know everything better than the origin balance team from core release days, when already their inconsistent trade off mess is showing that they have at max half the competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > > > > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. > > > > A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. > > Yes because turning an oh kitten button into something unusable when kitten jumps at you makes so much sense... The whole Obsidian change is completely nonsense right from start, there was no reason to change that skill, it was totally balanced compared to other invuln skills having additional effects/rewards to the invuln and less restrictions in accessibility. Also as now proven ingame it didn't even help a tiny bit to make sustain Ele builds less tanky or remarkable less impactful in dmg while being tanky. > Huh? I was merely stating that a 1/4s cast time would have accomplished the same thing if their goal was to prevent you using Obsidian Flesh when dazed/stunned instead of making it a channel. I do think it's a bit over zealous of a change to be honest. Edit: Great now I'm going to get a ping for the next 10 replies between you two :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > > > > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. > > > > A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. > > Yes because turning an oh kitten button into something unusable when kitten jumps at you makes so much sense... The whole Obsidian change is completely nonsense right from start, there was no reason to change that skill, it was totally balanced compared to other invuln skills having additional effects/rewards to the invuln and less restrictions in accessibility. Also as now proven ingame it didn't even help a tiny bit to make sustain Ele builds less tanky or remarkable less impactful in dmg while being tanky. > I dont know what other invulnerability skills youre referring too, because all other invulnerability skills already locked you out of all skills. The only one that didnt is Mesmers Distortion, and even that one requires clones to have a long duration. > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > Not being able to cast is fine and fair > > No it is not fair when looking at other invuln skills (just see above) and when considering why the skill was originally created like that on Ele. It might be endurable on braindead facetank meta bunker builds but for more skilled and squishy builds this is a horrible nonsense change. If you want to give bunker Eles more counter and less noobfriendly facetank sustain then there are a lot of other and better ways to do that without killing one of the very few ACTIVE defense tools more squishy and more skilled Ele builds have which depend on being able to attack while invuln. No clue what makes the current balance team think they know everything better than the origin balance team from core release days, when already their inconsistent trade off mess is showing that they have at max half the competence. > It is fair when looking at other invuln skills. They all lock you out of your skills. Either through channel time or literally locking them. And they also take up a utility slot, which is generally more valuable and more powerful as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > > > > > > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. > > > > > > A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. > > > > Yes because turning an oh kitten button into something unusable when kitten jumps at you makes so much sense... The whole Obsidian change is completely nonsense right from start, there was no reason to change that skill, it was totally balanced compared to other invuln skills having additional effects/rewards to the invuln and less restrictions in accessibility. Also as now proven ingame it didn't even help a tiny bit to make sustain Ele builds less tanky or remarkable less impactful in dmg while being tanky. > > > > I dont know what other invulnerability skills youre referring too, because all other invulnerability skills already locked you out of all skills. The only one that didnt is Mesmers Distortion, and even that one requires clones to have a long duration. > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > Not being able to cast is fine and fair > > > > No it is not fair when looking at other invuln skills (just see above) and when considering why the skill was originally created like that on Ele. It might be endurable on braindead facetank meta bunker builds but for more skilled and squishy builds this is a horrible nonsense change. If you want to give bunker Eles more counter and less noobfriendly facetank sustain then there are a lot of other and better ways to do that without killing one of the very few ACTIVE defense tools more squishy and more skilled Ele builds have which depend on being able to attack while invuln. No clue what makes the current balance team think they know everything better than the origin balance team from core release days, when already their inconsistent trade off mess is showing that they have at max half the competence. > > > > It is fair when looking at other invuln skills. They all lock you out of your skills. Either through channel time or literally locking them. And they also take up a utility slot, which is generally more valuable and more powerful as a result. No, as said other invuln skills have additional rewards like a stunbreak or cd refreshment (f-skills on guard) or another very impactful skill (toolbelt skill with aoe stealth to cover resustain heal from almost downstate up to 100% hp). So Obsidian was differently designed because it is different. And it is wrong to treat different things on different classes the same. Looking at rewards and cds and the class environment the design without skill lock out on Ele (just as on Mesmer) was justified, balanced and made sense since game release. And if you don't get these simple facts again, then don't be surprise i will not answer you again. Experience shows, that discussing with you is most likely a waste of time. > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > > > > > > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. > > > > > > A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. > > > > Yes because turning an oh kitten button into something unusable when kitten jumps at you makes so much sense... The whole Obsidian change is completely nonsense right from start, there was no reason to change that skill, it was totally balanced compared to other invuln skills having additional effects/rewards to the invuln and less restrictions in accessibility. Also as now proven ingame it didn't even help a tiny bit to make sustain Ele builds less tanky or remarkable less impactful in dmg while being tanky. > > > > > Huh? I was merely stating that a 1/4s cast time would have accomplished the same thing if their goal was to prevent you using Obsidian Flesh when dazed/stunned instead of making it a channel. Yes i know, i was refering to the goal of Anet you implied, what would not make any sense. But unlogical changes adding clunkyness and killing more skilled builds and playstyles for the sake of braindead builds while not even solving the issues from those metabuilds is the new fancy trend it seems. > Edit: Great now I'm going to get a ping for the next 10 replies between you two :'( :joy: I hope it will be shorter, i am not willing to waste more time while experience shows that it doesn't make sense to discuss with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 It should just be reverted altogether prepatch tbh. No one complained about it. It was already nerfed down to 3 seconds duration in pvp... what more do you want? 3 seconds where you're immune to damage, ever heard of kiting? Saving cds? Ele isn't a juggernaut that is constantly in your face unrelentingly. Even if they go ham in those 3 seconds wtf are they gonna do? Use flame uprising, burning speed or maybe fire grab for a combined of 6k burst in 3-4 abilities depending on the weapon? Or use it as a reset / small reprieve to regain some health? Is that so broken? Imagine if warrior or revenant got Obsidian Flesh. Now they're free to go ham on a mob of people while they shred them with 5-8k damage aoe for each ability. Now, that would be actually broken. This is not the case for elementalist. I struggle to think of a scenario where 3 seconds of invulnerability could actually break the game, or push ele over the top. Yes, it allows for their sustain (if the build allows it) to be even better (3 seconds every minute almost) but, that's it really. No, other classes can invuln stomp through many ways, not just ele. Oh, you want to get rid of the mechanic to do damage while invuln altogether? Are you aware many other classes can do this by simply mixing shorter cooldown abilities or traits together? What about class uniqueness? Can ele get... something that is unique to them, in one isolated weapon set? Would it be too much to ask? Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > > > > > > > > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. > > > > > > > > A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. > > > > > > Yes because turning an oh kitten button into something unusable when kitten jumps at you makes so much sense... The whole Obsidian change is completely nonsense right from start, there was no reason to change that skill, it was totally balanced compared to other invuln skills having additional effects/rewards to the invuln and less restrictions in accessibility. Also as now proven ingame it didn't even help a tiny bit to make sustain Ele builds less tanky or remarkable less impactful in dmg while being tanky. > > > > > > > I dont know what other invulnerability skills youre referring too, because all other invulnerability skills already locked you out of all skills. The only one that didnt is Mesmers Distortion, and even that one requires clones to have a long duration. > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > Not being able to cast is fine and fair > > > > > > No it is not fair when looking at other invuln skills (just see above) and when considering why the skill was originally created like that on Ele. It might be endurable on braindead facetank meta bunker builds but for more skilled and squishy builds this is a horrible nonsense change. If you want to give bunker Eles more counter and less noobfriendly facetank sustain then there are a lot of other and better ways to do that without killing one of the very few ACTIVE defense tools more squishy and more skilled Ele builds have which depend on being able to attack while invuln. No clue what makes the current balance team think they know everything better than the origin balance team from core release days, when already their inconsistent trade off mess is showing that they have at max half the competence. > > > > > > > It is fair when looking at other invuln skills. They all lock you out of your skills. Either through channel time or literally locking them. And they also take up a utility slot, which is generally more valuable and more powerful as a result. > > No, as said other invuln skills have additional rewards like a stunbreak or cd refreshment (f-skills on guard) or another very impactful skill (toolbelt skill with aoe stealth to cover resustain heal from almost downstate up to 100% hp). So Obsidian was differently designed because it is different. And it is wrong to treat different things on different classes the same. Looking at rewards and cds and the class environment the design without skill lock out on Ele (just as on Mesmer) was justified, balanced and made sense since game release. And if you don't get these simple facts again, then don't be surprise i will not answer you again. Experience shows, that discussing with you is most likely a waste of time. > > Well, first of all that isnt true for all of them, second of all, as I said, those are utility skills. They require a greater investment than a weapon skill. Hell, Ele has another invulnerability skill, Fortify. It lasts 3 second, and is channeled while rooting yourself. So not just locked out, you cant even move. And no, not really. Obsidian Flesh has always been an absurd skill. However, it used to have a critical weakness. It required you to swap to earth, and lose access to your previous attunement for quite some time. And the earth attunement was pretty bad for the most part. But both of those are no longer true, thanks to Weaver. Earth attunement is actually quite powerful, thanks to sword, while the recharge time is drastically lower. It was always borderline broken. Now with Weaver, there aint even a borderline. These simple "facts" that arent facts. Man you really have an ego the size of the bleeding moon. Without anything to back it up. Tone it down a bit, your Superiority Complex is getting to the point of Self-Deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. > > > > > > > > > > A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. > > > > > > > > Yes because turning an oh kitten button into something unusable when kitten jumps at you makes so much sense... The whole Obsidian change is completely nonsense right from start, there was no reason to change that skill, it was totally balanced compared to other invuln skills having additional effects/rewards to the invuln and less restrictions in accessibility. Also as now proven ingame it didn't even help a tiny bit to make sustain Ele builds less tanky or remarkable less impactful in dmg while being tanky. > > > > > > > > > > I dont know what other invulnerability skills youre referring too, because all other invulnerability skills already locked you out of all skills. The only one that didnt is Mesmers Distortion, and even that one requires clones to have a long duration. > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > Not being able to cast is fine and fair > > > > > > > > No it is not fair when looking at other invuln skills (just see above) and when considering why the skill was originally created like that on Ele. It might be endurable on braindead facetank meta bunker builds but for more skilled and squishy builds this is a horrible nonsense change. If you want to give bunker Eles more counter and less noobfriendly facetank sustain then there are a lot of other and better ways to do that without killing one of the very few ACTIVE defense tools more squishy and more skilled Ele builds have which depend on being able to attack while invuln. No clue what makes the current balance team think they know everything better than the origin balance team from core release days, when already their inconsistent trade off mess is showing that they have at max half the competence. > > > > > > > > > > It is fair when looking at other invuln skills. They all lock you out of your skills. Either through channel time or literally locking them. And they also take up a utility slot, which is generally more valuable and more powerful as a result. > > > > No, as said other invuln skills have additional rewards like a stunbreak or cd refreshment (f-skills on guard) or another very impactful skill (toolbelt skill with aoe stealth to cover resustain heal from almost downstate up to 100% hp). So Obsidian was differently designed because it is different. And it is wrong to treat different things on different classes the same. Looking at rewards and cds and the class environment the design without skill lock out on Ele (just as on Mesmer) was justified, balanced and made sense since game release. And if you don't get these simple facts again, then don't be surprise i will not answer you again. Experience shows, that discussing with you is most likely a waste of time. > > > > > > Well, first of all that isnt true for all of them, second of all, as I said, those are utility skills. They require a greater investment than a weapon skill. Hell, Ele has another invulnerability skill, Fortify. It lasts 3 second, and is channeled while rooting yourself. So not just locked out, you cant even move. And no, not really. Obsidian Flesh has always been an absurd skill. However, it used to have a critical weakness. It required you to swap to earth, and lose access to your previous attunement for quite some time. And the earth attunement was pretty bad for the most part. But both of those are no longer true, thanks to Weaver. Earth attunement is actually quite powerful, thanks to sword, while the recharge time is drastically lower. It was always borderline broken. Now with Weaver, there aint even a borderline. > > These simple "facts" that arent facts. Man you really have an ego the size of the bleeding moon. Without anything to back it up. Tone it down a bit, your Superiority Complex is getting to the point of Self-Deception. > This just shows how utterly clueless you are to how elementalist works. Obsidian Flesh is CONSIDERABLY easier to access on core / tempest, and way more readily available in clutch situations. You need to plan out when you need it as a weaver, up to 7 seconds in advance if you have yet to attune to earth in your rotation. This used to be a major complaint about weaver on release. Clutch abilities now had to be planned in advance, and in some cases (Burning retreat for fire 3 staff) they were extremely hard to access because of the dual attunement. So no, you're wrong, being a weaver is not an advantage when using obsi flesh and no, no one in the history of gw2 has ever complained about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"Razor.6392" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. > > > > > > > > > > > > A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. > > > > > > > > > > Yes because turning an oh kitten button into something unusable when kitten jumps at you makes so much sense... The whole Obsidian change is completely nonsense right from start, there was no reason to change that skill, it was totally balanced compared to other invuln skills having additional effects/rewards to the invuln and less restrictions in accessibility. Also as now proven ingame it didn't even help a tiny bit to make sustain Ele builds less tanky or remarkable less impactful in dmg while being tanky. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know what other invulnerability skills youre referring too, because all other invulnerability skills already locked you out of all skills. The only one that didnt is Mesmers Distortion, and even that one requires clones to have a long duration. > > > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > Not being able to cast is fine and fair > > > > > > > > > > No it is not fair when looking at other invuln skills (just see above) and when considering why the skill was originally created like that on Ele. It might be endurable on braindead facetank meta bunker builds but for more skilled and squishy builds this is a horrible nonsense change. If you want to give bunker Eles more counter and less noobfriendly facetank sustain then there are a lot of other and better ways to do that without killing one of the very few ACTIVE defense tools more squishy and more skilled Ele builds have which depend on being able to attack while invuln. No clue what makes the current balance team think they know everything better than the origin balance team from core release days, when already their inconsistent trade off mess is showing that they have at max half the competence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is fair when looking at other invuln skills. They all lock you out of your skills. Either through channel time or literally locking them. And they also take up a utility slot, which is generally more valuable and more powerful as a result. > > > > > > No, as said other invuln skills have additional rewards like a stunbreak or cd refreshment (f-skills on guard) or another very impactful skill (toolbelt skill with aoe stealth to cover resustain heal from almost downstate up to 100% hp). So Obsidian was differently designed because it is different. And it is wrong to treat different things on different classes the same. Looking at rewards and cds and the class environment the design without skill lock out on Ele (just as on Mesmer) was justified, balanced and made sense since game release. And if you don't get these simple facts again, then don't be surprise i will not answer you again. Experience shows, that discussing with you is most likely a waste of time. > > > > > > > > > > Well, first of all that isnt true for all of them, second of all, as I said, those are utility skills. They require a greater investment than a weapon skill. Hell, Ele has another invulnerability skill, Fortify. It lasts 3 second, and is channeled while rooting yourself. So not just locked out, you cant even move. And no, not really. Obsidian Flesh has always been an absurd skill. However, it used to have a critical weakness. It required you to swap to earth, and lose access to your previous attunement for quite some time. And the earth attunement was pretty bad for the most part. But both of those are no longer true, thanks to Weaver. Earth attunement is actually quite powerful, thanks to sword, while the recharge time is drastically lower. It was always borderline broken. Now with Weaver, there aint even a borderline. > > > > These simple "facts" that arent facts. Man you really have an ego the size of the bleeding moon. Without anything to back it up. Tone it down a bit, your Superiority Complex is getting to the point of Self-Deception. > > > > This just shows how utterly clueless you are to how elementalist works. Obsidian Flesh is CONSIDERABLY easier to access on core / tempest, and way more readily available in clutch situations. You need to plan out when you need it as a weaver, up to 7 seconds in advance if you have yet to attune to earth in your rotation. > > This used to be a major complaint about weaver on release. Clutch abilities now had to be planned in advance, and in some cases (Burning retreat for fire 3 staff) they were extremely hard to access because of the dual attunement. So no, you're wrong, being a weaver is not an advantage when using obsi flesh and no, no one in the history of gw2 has ever complained about it. > > Its easier to access, but it comes with more of a cost. And while its harder to access in a clutch situation, earth happens to be the attunement you want to go into much more often than in the past. Arguably its the second-most important one after fire now, and a big reason of why the builds work in the first place. Given that the nerf to Obsidian Flesh was to remove its proactive ability, while retaining its clutch ability, Im going to go out on a limb and say that they saw the offensive capabilities of Obsidian Flesh as the issue. Makes sense, the fire weaver being able to fight completely unrestrained for 3 seconds is quite dangerous. Dont know where you looked, but plenty of people complained about Obsidian Flesh. As I said, lets the Ele fight for 3 seconds without having to care about *anything* the opponent can do. On a build that can burst you down with burning quite hard now. It was a problem, thats why it locked you out of your skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nylarx.9671 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I logged on because I need to clarify one thing about Obsidian Flesh - can you really revive or down someone while it is up? I tried downing someone when it was up, but my character refused to go through the animation - do I need to use Obsidian Flesh after starting the finishing animation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > > Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean free uninterruptible stomps/resses are pretty kitten powerful, but Engineer also can do it with Elixir S, soooo. My guess is more that it was a change done to prevent you from being able to cast it while stunned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A 1/4s cast time I believe would accomplish this task. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes because turning an oh kitten button into something unusable when kitten jumps at you makes so much sense... The whole Obsidian change is completely nonsense right from start, there was no reason to change that skill, it was totally balanced compared to other invuln skills having additional effects/rewards to the invuln and less restrictions in accessibility. Also as now proven ingame it didn't even help a tiny bit to make sustain Ele builds less tanky or remarkable less impactful in dmg while being tanky. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know what other invulnerability skills youre referring too, because all other invulnerability skills already locked you out of all skills. The only one that didnt is Mesmers Distortion, and even that one requires clones to have a long duration. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > Not being able to cast is fine and fair > > > > > > > > > > > > No it is not fair when looking at other invuln skills (just see above) and when considering why the skill was originally created like that on Ele. It might be endurable on braindead facetank meta bunker builds but for more skilled and squishy builds this is a horrible nonsense change. If you want to give bunker Eles more counter and less noobfriendly facetank sustain then there are a lot of other and better ways to do that without killing one of the very few ACTIVE defense tools more squishy and more skilled Ele builds have which depend on being able to attack while invuln. No clue what makes the current balance team think they know everything better than the origin balance team from core release days, when already their inconsistent trade off mess is showing that they have at max half the competence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is fair when looking at other invuln skills. They all lock you out of your skills. Either through channel time or literally locking them. And they also take up a utility slot, which is generally more valuable and more powerful as a result. > > > > > > > > No, as said other invuln skills have additional rewards like a stunbreak or cd refreshment (f-skills on guard) or another very impactful skill (toolbelt skill with aoe stealth to cover resustain heal from almost downstate up to 100% hp). So Obsidian was differently designed because it is different. And it is wrong to treat different things on different classes the same. Looking at rewards and cds and the class environment the design without skill lock out on Ele (just as on Mesmer) was justified, balanced and made sense since game release. And if you don't get these simple facts again, then don't be surprise i will not answer you again. Experience shows, that discussing with you is most likely a waste of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, first of all that isnt true for all of them, second of all, as I said, those are utility skills. They require a greater investment than a weapon skill. Hell, Ele has another invulnerability skill, Fortify. It lasts 3 second, and is channeled while rooting yourself. So not just locked out, you cant even move. And no, not really. Obsidian Flesh has always been an absurd skill. However, it used to have a critical weakness. It required you to swap to earth, and lose access to your previous attunement for quite some time. And the earth attunement was pretty bad for the most part. But both of those are no longer true, thanks to Weaver. Earth attunement is actually quite powerful, thanks to sword, while the recharge time is drastically lower. It was always borderline broken. Now with Weaver, there aint even a borderline. > > > > > > These simple "facts" that arent facts. Man you really have an ego the size of the bleeding moon. Without anything to back it up. Tone it down a bit, your Superiority Complex is getting to the point of Self-Deception. > > > > > > > This just shows how utterly clueless you are to how elementalist works. Obsidian Flesh is CONSIDERABLY easier to access on core / tempest, and way more readily available in clutch situations. You need to plan out when you need it as a weaver, up to 7 seconds in advance if you have yet to attune to earth in your rotation. > > > > This used to be a major complaint about weaver on release. Clutch abilities now had to be planned in advance, and in some cases (Burning retreat for fire 3 staff) they were extremely hard to access because of the dual attunement. So no, you're wrong, being a weaver is not an advantage when using obsi flesh and no, no one in the history of gw2 has ever complained about it. > > > > > > Its easier to access, but it comes with more of a cost. And while its harder to access in a clutch situation, earth happens to be the attunement you want to go into much more often than in the past. Arguably its the second-most important one after fire now, and a big reason of why the builds work in the first place. Given that the nerf to Obsidian Flesh was to remove its proactive ability, while retaining its clutch ability, Im going to go out on a limb and say that they saw the offensive capabilities of Obsidian Flesh as the issue. Makes sense, the fire weaver being able to fight completely unrestrained for 3 seconds is quite dangerous. > > Dont know where you looked, but plenty of people complained about Obsidian Flesh. As I said, lets the Ele fight for 3 seconds without having to care about *anything* the opponent can do. On a build that can burst you down with burning quite hard now. It was a problem, thats why it locked you out of your skills. The Weaver burn build is a problem but it is not because of Obsidian. These nonsense changes nerfing around root problems triggers me so hard. Just like on Ranger, the Marksmanship dmg mulitplier stackable as they are and high as they are, are clearly a problem. Ofc some Soulbeats specfic stuff like Sic EM for the player when merged needed to be looked at too, but Anet avoided to nerf some root problems with not touching core traits which even are op on core builds. While Obsidian is no issue what makes any Weaver build op. When the problem is in core you nerf/ rework core, when it is in elites you nerf/ rework elites. It is rly that simple. When the problem is in a too strong synergy between some core and elite traits then you might have a bigger problem to decide and should in tendency/ preferable kill the lower skill cieling aspect to weaken the synergy and again no matter if the lower skill ceiling part is in core or elite (because the low skill ceiling will most likely apply to core too aynway) ofc only as long as neither the elite or core would suffer too much from it. In that case you have to look for the nerf with overall the least costs in clunkyness, skill ceiling and build diversity. While Anet has the weird habit to chose the worst and most unnecessary changes with the highest cost in those aspects ever. Whatever all other invuln skills (except for the Mesmer) have more rewards in addition to the pure invuln, very high other rewards. That is one reason they were designed with skill look out as additional trade off since game release. Also you have to look at how those classes function overall. Ele (aside from the braindead bunker builds) just as Mesmer are originally build around combining instant skills with not instant skills and being that squishy that they need to be able to attack or resustain while invuln here and there to even have a change to kill something before getting killed. It makes Ele also unnecessary clunky on those builds because the change contradicts the Ele mechanic on a lot of builds (just those builds are not meta, so no one cares it seems, even though nerfing meta down to the lvl to the more skilled builds would make way more sense instead killing more skilled builds just to nerf op meta builds at the wrong places). The only thing invuln skills have in common is that they apply invulnerability, aside from that all you can see when looking at them is, that they are totally different on also totally different classes with different strengths and different mechanics what are the reasons they were designed that different in the first place. Never treat different things the same. And just because all thumbs are fingers doesn't mean all fingers are thumbs. Obsidian don't need a skill look out. If there are bunker builds on Ele specs too op in sustain, then there are more than enough other ways to reduce their facetank sustain without killing one of the very few active defensive skills more skilled and squishy Ele playstyles have. Obsidian and Ele is more near to the Mesmer than to Engi or Guard, that is why Ele and Mesmer have those invuln skills. Simple! On what slot they are doesn't rly matter that much either. You have opportunity costs on all slots in terms of you cannot choose something else there. And on Ele you even need to dedicate 2*4 skills to have that one defensive skill not only one utility or one elite. Means on what slot that invuln skill is, is already balanced out by different opportunity costs each slot has. How good or bad other earth skills are on different specs doesn't matter. If some earth skills on Weaver overperform than nerf them (they are the root problem then). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 > @"Razor.6392" said: > It should just be reverted altogether prepatch tbh. > > No one complained about it. It was already nerfed down to 3 seconds duration in pvp... what more do you want? 3 seconds where you're immune to damage, ever heard of kiting? Saving cds? > > Ele isn't a juggernaut that is constantly in your face unrelentingly. Even if they go ham in those 3 seconds kitten are they gonna do? Use flame uprising, burning speed or maybe fire grab for a combined of 6k burst in 3-4 abilities depending on the weapon? Or use it as a reset / small reprieve to regain some health? Is that so broken? > > Imagine if warrior or revenant got Obsidian Flesh. Now they're free to go ham on a mob of people while they shred them with 5-8k damage aoe for each ability. Now, that would be actually broken. This is not the case for elementalist. I struggle to think of a scenario where 3 seconds of invulnerability could actually break the game, or push ele over the top. Yes, it allows for their sustain (if the build allows it) to be even better (3 seconds every minute almost) but, that's it really. No, other classes can invuln stomp through many ways, not just ele. > > Oh, you want to get rid of the mechanic to do damage while invuln altogether? Are you aware many other classes can do this by simply mixing shorter cooldown abilities or traits together? What about class uniqueness? Can ele get... something that is unique to them, in one isolated weapon set? Would it be too much to ask? > > Lol. > Actually Weaver can put out some absolutely insane burst, can think of one particular player that chunks HP bars really hard. And Warrior has no range it deserves an invul quite frankly, and then even it wouldn’t be going ham - what hard hitting skills does Warrior have now? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 rofl why isnt this fixed already? broken pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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