First instance looks nice, boss fight is horrible

[Memoranda.9386]

First group after patch: miserable, horrible, no-good experience that made me dread the thought of hunting achievements.

 

Every time after that: just swell, and almost got the timed achieve without really trying.

 

-----

 

First run was only a few hours after patch went live. Other runs have occured from times varying 11a EST - 1a EST.

[Shena Fu.5792]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Shena Fu.5792" said:

> > Instructions in-game are grade F. Doesn't tell you that players are supposed to drive the tank, and players alternating. Scant instructions on how to use the tank. They don't tell you how to refill tank ammo. What to do with Dark munitions.

> >

> > Harpoon only takes the defiance down to 10-15%. So on its own seems useless.

> >

> > Also the keybinds are broken for skill #2 and 3. Have to use the mouse to click the skills. But #2 is AOE, so just end up blowing at the tank.

>

> It's explained in the prep events, You're also told what to do in the strike. There's also a thing called taking initiative.

 

When so MANY players don't understand at all, then ANET FAILED to explain properly and thoroughty. Players can miss prep events for many reasons--they entered late, they couldn't find where to go, ANET failed to explain properly, etc.

 

Initiative for what?

 

That's why this story event should have been single player. Because relying on other players' failure, incompetence, and lack of cooperation sucks.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Shena Fu.5792" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Shena Fu.5792" said:

> > > Instructions in-game are grade F. Doesn't tell you that players are supposed to drive the tank, and players alternating. Scant instructions on how to use the tank. They don't tell you how to refill tank ammo. What to do with Dark munitions.

> > >

> > > Harpoon only takes the defiance down to 10-15%. So on its own seems useless.

> > >

> > > Also the keybinds are broken for skill #2 and 3. Have to use the mouse to click the skills. But #2 is AOE, so just end up blowing at the tank.

> >

> > It's explained in the prep events, You're also told what to do in the strike. There's also a thing called taking initiative.

>

> When so MANY players don't understand at all, then ANET FAILED to explain properly and thoroughty. Players can miss prep events for many reasons--they entered late, they couldn't find where to go, ANET failed to explain properly, etc.

>

> Initiative for what?

>

> That's why this story event should have been single player. Because relying on other players' failure, incompetence, and lack of cooperation sucks.

 

initiative to learn for themselves rather than be hand carried.

 

Just an FYI, it can be done solo.

[Etria.3642]

> @"Shena Fu.5792" said:

> Instructions in-game are grade F. Doesn't tell you that players are supposed to drive the tank, and players alternating. Scant instructions on how to use the tank. They don't tell you how to refill tank ammo. What to do with Dark munitions.

>

> Harpoon only takes the defiance down to 10-15%. So on its own seems useless.

>

> Also the keybinds are broken for skill #2 and 3. Have to use the mouse to click the skills. But #2 is AOE, so just end up blowing at the tank.

 

There is an activity at the beginning that explains how to refill ammo. As many players as want to can fit in the tank, there is zero need to alternate and to break the bar you HAVE to have as many inside as possible. It doesn't explain the difference between ammo boxes but since they give a buff on your bar, and you can see that they give different amounts, it never occurred to me anyone would NOT figure out that you just grab them until the red letters across your screen say you can't hold any more.

 

Harpoon should be held down, and depending on how large the group is, depends on how much is broken. For instance, if alone, I can break it myself.

 

For 2, it puts the aoe wherever you choose to place it. It's great for groups, especially at the portals. For 3 you hold it down. I do not have to mouse click either one of these. In fact, for 2, it's better if you don't, so you can mouse where you want the aoe to happen.

 

I did find some of the jumping puzzles to happen too fast for my skills if in a squad, so I just skip those when in a squad, and got the achievements for them when doing it solo. Doing it solo also means you can experience each step to do what needs to be done. I will say the instructions could be clearer, but they aren't grade F, either.

[Shena Fu.5792]

The Buff Bar is one of the WORST places to tell what is going on. A million different buffs and debuffs per millisecond flick in and out of the Buff Bar. How can new player know an item becomes a Buff, instead of expecting it going into your inventory? Or a HORIZONTAL BAR that fills up?

 

Grade F for : User Interface, User Experience, instructions missing and poorly delivered when it's most needed (during boss fight), treating solo mission as group mission,

[Dante.1763]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Shena Fu.5792" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Shena Fu.5792" said:

> > > > Instructions in-game are grade F. Doesn't tell you that players are supposed to drive the tank, and players alternating. Scant instructions on how to use the tank. They don't tell you how to refill tank ammo. What to do with Dark munitions.

> > > >

> > > > Harpoon only takes the defiance down to 10-15%. So on its own seems useless.

> > > >

> > > > Also the keybinds are broken for skill #2 and 3. Have to use the mouse to click the skills. But #2 is AOE, so just end up blowing at the tank.

> > >

> > > It's explained in the prep events, You're also told what to do in the strike. There's also a thing called taking initiative.

> >

> > When so MANY players don't understand at all, then ANET FAILED to explain properly and thoroughty. Players can miss prep events for many reasons--they entered late, they couldn't find where to go, ANET failed to explain properly, etc.

> >

> > Initiative for what?

> >

> > That's why this story event should have been single player. Because relying on other players' failure, incompetence, and lack of cooperation sucks.

>

> initiative to learn for themselves rather than be hand carried.

>

> Just an FYI, it can be done solo.

 

i see alot of people saying to "look at the UI" in game when people ask for help.

 

If i wouldnt have done the mission solo last night i wouldnt have had any idea what to do aside from following others lead, my UI shuts off in combat, which at least i have found i was in for almost the entire mission, i like seeing as much of the screen as possible without distractions.

 

I missed the pre events the first time, and the second time outside of seeing the sniper event, and the kill event i had no about the tank or the potions.

 

The boss fight now that i know what to look for from playing it solo, is alot easier.

 

Honestly would recommend to ANET to make it obvious to players that A.) The mission can be run entirely solo.) and B.) recommending it get played solo the first time through so that one can see all the UI pop ups, do all the events, and figure out what needs to be done without having a group of players rush through everything.

[Poormany.4507]

Biggest issue for me was that the tank mechanics were not explained at all to anyone who did not do the tank event at the beginning, so they have no clue how/if they can use it, myself included. I even tried talking to the tank NPC during the mission, hoping for some kind of instructions on how to use the tank, but nothing. I had no idea you could even enter the tank until halfway through the boss fight and had no idea what the ammo mechanics were through the whole mission. If you have a team in which nobody does the tank pre-event and just focuses on the other 3, it seems your'e pretty much out of luck on the boss. I think adding instructions to the tank NPC dialogue when talking to them would be sufficient to at least give players some basics on the tank mechanics.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

I think ANet's biggest mistake with this mission was not making everyone practice and learn the (unique to this mission) harpoon mechanic. If you do this with a group, or even solo, you can skip the harpoon practice unintentionally and the mission progresses without you knowing anything about it. Then some players are unprepared at the end boss fight. This wouldn't solve all of Steel and Fire's problems, but I think it would help quite a bit.

(edit) Actually, I *still* haven't done the harpoon practice in the first part of the mission, so I don't know how well they actually illustrates that mechanic. Does that part do a good job of teaching that unique harpoon mechanic?(reading about it on the forums is how I learned the proper way)

(edit - clarity, typos)

[Daddicus.6128]

We did it with two, and the "instructions" from other charr are really hard to hear, and virtually impossible to realize that they're telling you the actions to perform. After 10 or 20 times (judging from the rate they come up) one or two of them actually make sense.

 

I agree with the OP that this isn't designed well at all. But, I suspect after the first time through (if you make it), it gets better. But, they could have done a MUCH better job of letting players know what they needed to do. Especially after a half hour where you haven't done any damage at all to him. They should then know that the instructions aren't clear.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Etria.3642" said:

> > @"Shena Fu.5792" said:

> > Instructions in-game are grade F. Doesn't tell you that players are supposed to drive the tank, and players alternating. Scant instructions on how to use the tank. They don't tell you how to refill tank ammo. What to do with Dark munitions.

> >

> > Harpoon only takes the defiance down to 10-15%. So on its own seems useless.

> >

> > Also the keybinds are broken for skill #2 and 3. Have to use the mouse to click the skills. But #2 is AOE, so just end up blowing at the tank.

>

> There is an activity at the beginning that explains how to refill ammo. As many players as want to can fit in the tank, there is zero need to alternate and to break the bar you HAVE to have as many inside as possible. It doesn't explain the difference between ammo boxes but since they give a buff on your bar, and you can see that they give different amounts, it never occurred to me anyone would NOT figure out that you just grab them until the red letters across your screen say you can't hold any more.

>

> Harpoon should be held down, and depending on how large the group is, depends on how much is broken. For instance, if alone, I can break it myself.

>

> For 2, it puts the aoe wherever you choose to place it. It's great for groups, especially at the portals. For 3 you hold it down. I do not have to mouse click either one of these. In fact, for 2, it's better if you don't, so you can mouse where you want the aoe to happen.

>

> I did find some of the jumping puzzles to happen too fast for my skills if in a squad, so I just skip those when in a squad, and got the achievements for them when doing it solo. Doing it solo also means you can experience each step to do what needs to be done. I will say the instructions could be clearer, but they aren't grade F, either.

 

And, what of teams that timed out the initial pieces, and so don't know anything about the harpoon, grenade, or #1 skill?

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

I agree that much of the charr spoken dialog is difficult to hear/understand over the sounds of combat. It's echoed in local chat to the chat console, but then you're splitting your attention between the chat console and what's going on around you.

[Etria.3642]

> @"Shena Fu.5792" said:

> The Buff Bar is one of the WORST places to tell what is going on. A million different buffs and debuffs per millisecond flick in and out of the Buff Bar. How can **new player** know an item becomes a Buff, instead of expecting it going into your inventory? Or a HORIZONTAL BAR that fills up?

>

> Grade F for : User Interface, User Experience, instructions missing and poorly delivered when it's most needed (during boss fight), treating solo mission as group mission,

 

I guess my thought was why a brand new player to the game would be doing THIS mission. If I succeed in bringing another person over, it certainly wouldn't be where I would drag them to on the first day. Or even first week. I'd have them insta level an 80, drag them at the fastest of fast breakneck speeds through getting gliding and a raptor(So they wouldn't have time to get any story spoilers), and then have them create a new character, and start at the beginning. Even if they did then want to come with me when I was doing the mission, I would do it as we just did(I have a friend who is relatively new, only played since Dragonfall) and it would be just us, and I WOULD EXPLAIN EVERYTHING.

 

If I was a stark brand new player without friends or guildies to explain things I would be doing the new player tutorial stuff and honestly, probably leave the game. There are just so many other options out there, and core GW2 is, I am sorry to say, just nothing all that special and unique. If someone has the expansion, for heavens sake HAND THEM gliding and raptor.

 

But I am getting distracted from the actual topic. Just getting near the tank garners a pop up that says Enter the Tank. When you enter the tank, you do see how much ammo you have. You can see the amount decreasing as you push buttons. There are 768706589 boxes of various ammo laying about and just begging to have "f" pressed. After doing so, when you enter the tank, voila, your amount of ammo has increased. So while you CAN look at the buff bar, you certainly don't HAVE to.

 

I am not sure how much more obvious they could make it without then also insulting our intelligence. Unless folks are playing in another language?

[Linken.6345]

> @"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:

> I think ANet's biggest mistake with this mission was not making everyone practice and learn the (unique to this mission) harpoon mechanic. If you do this with a group, or even solo, you can skip the harpoon practice unintentionally and the mission progresses without you knowing anything about it. Then some players are unprepared at the end boss fight. This wouldn't solve all of Steel and Fire's problems, but I think it would help quite a bit.

> (edit) Actually, I *still* haven't done the harpoon practice in the first part of the mission, so I don't know how well they actually illustrates that mechanic. Does that part do a good job of teaching that unique harpoon mechanic?(reading about it on the forums is how I learned the proper way)

> (edit - clarity, typos)

 

You also got the door you have to shoot and harpoon to open close to the end of mission

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

Thank you for bringing up the gate you have to break using the harpoons. This would probably be a better place to require everyone participate in the harpoon mechanic in order to progress the story.(than at the start)

There would need to be loud spoken and clear printed dialog like "Everyone get in the tank and man the harpoons - we need EVERYONE on harpoons to break this gate!" "We need EVERYONE in the tank!" "ALL of you man the harpoons!" etc... until *everyone* gets in the tank and does the thing. But they'd have to make it clear enough, or it would just become and earlier sticking point. But still probably more obvious than later at the boss fight.

[Jilora.9524]

It really seems the same players complain or don't learn no matter how many things anet puts in to help. You get the beginning tutorial which you can't skip even after 20 times so you should learn eventually. You got achieves which tell you things you should learn. They slowly walk you down with each mechanic during escort before boss. You can ask questions as you have 9 others. Or you can google and I'm sure someone has a strike tutorial or these forums. I mean they even got arrows on where to go at points. Some achieves aren't clear enough like Rival should said kill 15 skelk to progress or moving up the ranks should say Beat boss with all 4 challenge modes active etc but the fight come on. Learn to learn.

[Poormany.4507]

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> It really seems the same players complain or don't learn no matter how many things anet puts in to help. You get the beginning tutorial which you can't skip even after 20 times so you should learn eventually. You got achieves which tell you things you should learn. They slowly walk you down with each mechanic during escort before boss. You can ask questions as you have 9 others. Or you can google and I'm sure someone has a strike tutorial or these forums. I mean they even got arrows on where to go at points. Some achieves aren't clear enough like Rival should said kill 15 skelk to progress or moving up the ranks should say Beat boss with all 4 challenge modes active etc but the fight come on. Learn to learn.

 

Not a single NPC in the mission explains how the tank works past the initial pre-event, which can easily be missed by anyone playing through for the first time, as there are three others to do, so players who did not do it, don't really have a chance to "learn". Many, if not most players don't look at or do achievements, or look up guides the first time through playing a main story mission (which this clearly is). If it was a strike mission or raid unrelated to the main story, this advice would be valid as it would be expected for players to know what they're doing beforehand, but Visions of the Past is part of the main story and thus, largely played by those who do not look up the mission or its achievements beforehand so as not to get the plot spoiled. I did not feel like there was enough guidance during this mission and imo there should be a tutorial NPC or tooltips during the mission to explain the mechanics (those of the tank in particular).

[Blur.3465]

Entered a Public version late night last night and well...the boss fight was a kitten fest.

Basically, I kept telling people to enter the tank and spam 3 whenever the countdown came...nobody respected that except one person.

That one person and I stood on plates and worked our tails off, but we couldn't CC the boss as nobody entered the tank. Those who DID enter the tank spammed 1 and 2 instead of 3 to CC the tank, despite me literally repeating like a parrot what to do. Nobody listened.

My biggest annoyance with this is that people don't read what is written. The Charr shouts nice and clear to harpoon the boss.

Even if it's someone's first time, you may fail once, but when someone constantly keeps telling you the same thing and when you see that boss hp is going slow then it means you are doing something wrong and you have to look up what is being said.

 

It isn't a hard fight, it's quite fun when you actually do it properly.

People just need to learn how to read and wake up when doing this fight.

 

GW1 missions were a bunch harder and had no explanations. People just need to be aware of environment and what is being TOLD.

When you get a grip of the whole thing, it's easy as heck...

 

[Jilora.9524]

> @"Poormany.4507" said:

> > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > It really seems the same players complain or don't learn no matter how many things anet puts in to help. You get the beginning tutorial which you can't skip even after 20 times so you should learn eventually. You got achieves which tell you things you should learn. They slowly walk you down with each mechanic during escort before boss. You can ask questions as you have 9 others. Or you can google and I'm sure someone has a strike tutorial or these forums. I mean they even got arrows on where to go at points. Some achieves aren't clear enough like Rival should said kill 15 skelk to progress or moving up the ranks should say Beat boss with all 4 challenge modes active etc but the fight come on. Learn to learn.

>

> Not a single NPC in the mission explains how the tank works past the initial pre-event, which can easily be missed by anyone playing through for the first time, as there are three others to do, so players who did not do it, don't really have a chance to "learn". Many, if not most players don't look at or do achievements, or look up guides the first time through playing a main story mission (which this clearly is). If it was a strike mission or raid unrelated to the main story, this advice would be valid as it would be expected for players to know what they're doing beforehand, but Visions of the Past is part of the main story and thus, largely played by those who do not look up the mission or its achievements beforehand so as not to get the plot spoiled. I did not feel like there was enough guidance during this mission and imo there should be a tutorial NPC or tooltips during the mission to explain the mechanics (those of the tank in particular).

 

So not the guy next to the tank who when you get in starts a tutorial about getting ammo shooting targets then grenades then more targets is not enough. I didn't say you needed to do all but if you are that player getting confused everytime new content is added there are ways to learn. The strike missions prior gave no training. You join you learn. This one you can't even fail it just can take forever. What are they supposed to do put a big msg press F to get in tank. Press 1 to shot. Press 2 for grenades. If it's not clear then maybe you joined late idk but again ask stuff. Plenty of prior solo story stuff we'd get stuck at some bosses and had to learn so this is no different. Like that the whole story one where he would suck you in and heal to full if you didn't cc fast enough so don't hide behing this is story it should be basic

[Jilora.9524]

And I didn't say look beforehand. Of course we all had to learn the 1st time through trial and error like every part of the game but after if you still confused look stuff up ask questions etc

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:

> I think ANet's biggest mistake with this mission was not making everyone practice and learn the (unique to this mission) harpoon mechanic. If you do this with a group, or even solo, you can skip the harpoon practice unintentionally and the mission progresses without you knowing anything about it. Then some players are unprepared at the end boss fight. This wouldn't solve all of Steel and Fire's problems, but I think it would help quite a bit.

> (edit) Actually, I *still* haven't done the harpoon practice in the first part of the mission, so I don't know how well they actually illustrates that mechanic. Does that part do a good job of teaching that unique harpoon mechanic?(reading about it on the forums is how I learned the proper way)

> (edit - clarity, typos)

 

The actual harpoon "practice" should be the door with the two seals. That part is not skippable if you are doing it solo.

[Blur.3465]

The biggest issue is that people don't read what is being said.

I feel that even if ANet wrote with massive, bold, red letters to Harpoon the boss, people would still roam around and do their own thing.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

Even if tank mechanics were explained, there would still be players that would be unable to piece together that information and figure out how to apply it to the boss. It's even been spammed in map and say chat on how to do the boss and yet players ignore it. You can't fix that.

[Zok.4956]

> @"Shena Fu.5792" said:

> Also the keybinds are broken for skill #2 and 3. Have to use the mouse to click the skills. But #2 is AOE, so just end up blowing at the tank.

 

Good to read, that I am not the only one with broken tank keybinds (for me #2, #3, #4 are broken and have to be clicked with mouse).

 

[ArlAlt.1630]

This is the first Strike Mission that actually nails the mark, aka introduce new players to boss mechanics and prepare them for raids. It's actually explained and paced very well which makes it an enjoyable ride. So far done it with 2 open groups, the 2nd time I had to explain to my group how the boss mechanic work and it took good 30 mins till they caught on but we finished it extremely fast after that.

 

First good strike mission?

[LikeMike.8031]

I have done this 6 times, 3 in a public group and 3 solo. All of the group ones involved name calling and profanity. I can easily solo this on my soulbeast in 71 minutes. It takes 61 minutes to get to the boss and 10 minutes to kill it. You can completely ignore the tank and just DPS the boss. You do not have to have a group for this.