Sobx.1758 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > Rifle would be better if it was less about "yolo one-shot everything, die to everything" and more about survive through active gameplay while still being bursty enough. > > > > I'm still curious why you don't play DE/engi rifle despite using them as examples of viable rifle classes btw. > > Because it should be a workable and viable set on warrior. DE is the sniper in the tower. Warrior should be the grunt sweeper the street using rapid fire attacks and CQC to take enemies down. The CQC is there, but we have a pellet gun with a grenade launcher attached. It is a workable and viable set as a weapon swap and not a singular main ranged playstyle, which doesn't exactly suit what warrior in gw2 represents/is capable of. And sure, it might need some tweaks as I agreed above, but... that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > Rifle would be better if it was less about "yolo one-shot everything, die to everything" and more about survive through active gameplay while still being bursty enough. > > > > I'm still curious why you don't play DE/engi rifle despite using them as examples of viable rifle classes btw. > > Only those can also wield rifle and they are more effective with it (given the thief can easily escape and Engi has access to XY other skills on demand, so think about it as weapon swap with no CD). Why should I play other profession to use rifle when it is lacking (or being only "ok") on warrior? In a perfect world, every weapon would be good and balanced. Aren't we trying to get at least close to that? Trying to copy other classes weapons and playstyles while pretending it works in vacuum and nothing else about the class using it matters doesn't exactly scream "balance" to me, but sure, it can be wrongfully used as an "argument". This is why I keep saying -if you prefer how eng/de plays with rifle then... play them. I still don't understand why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > Trying to copy other classes weapons and playstyles while pretending it works in vacuum and nothing else about the class using it matters doesn't exactly scream "balance" to me, but sure, it can be wrongfully used as an "argument". This is why I keep saying -if you prefer how eng/de plays with rifle then... play them. I still don't understand why not. Yes because we want warrior rifle to be exactly like DE and/or Engi rifle... you are missing the point and it seems you don't even bother to understand it. People want rifle to be more useful weapon outside of already mentioned oneshot one-trick-pony fiesta. But you come in with mentality hurr durr beefy warrior op wants to play deadeye... do we really? Why don't you also recommend to play ranger or dragonhunter if warriors want longbow skills to be improved? Same mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Also, longbow needs to be improved. Basically, either give us stronger range options, or better anti kitting tools that aren't locked to two particular weapon sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakytails.5629 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Rifle is more flexible than its ever been before the only thing that is hurting it right now is the low damage overall, and the self root/long cast time on Killshot. Having 2 cripples, 2 piercing channeled attacks, 2 immobilized/evades, and a knock back that can reset the former is huge. You can stay on Rifle far longer than before and actually put together a rotation. The old rifle was pretty much a dump it, and swap type game-play. Now you can actually chain skills together especially if enemies are letting you free-cast or you can position well. Once you get consistent landing rifle 5 it can be pretty good and it compliments a melee weapon nicely. Most players are not willing to put the time into making it work which you have to do with non-meta weapons. You will have to use it more than twice to get used to it. You have to give yourself time to get the muscle memory with the Rifle or you will not do well with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > Trying to copy other classes weapons and playstyles while pretending it works in vacuum and nothing else about the class using it matters doesn't exactly scream "balance" to me, but sure, it can be wrongfully used as an "argument". This is why I keep saying -if you prefer how eng/de plays with rifle then... play them. I still don't understand why not. > > Yes because we want warrior rifle to be exactly like DE and/or Engi rifle... you are missing the point and it seems you don't even bother to understand it. > People want rifle to be more useful weapon outside of already mentioned oneshot one-trick-pony fiesta. But you come in with mentality hurr durr beefy warrior op wants to play deadeye... do we really? Why don't you also recommend to play ranger or dragonhunter if warriors want longbow skills to be improved? Same mentality. I'm not missing a point, I think warrior's class shouldn't have access to ranged weapons equally strong as his melee options and no amount of your repeated HURR DURR will change that. If you still fail to understand that, I guess we'll try again in the next thread in 3-6 months, as is tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: >that aren't locked to two particular weapon sets. Nah, there is nothing wrong with different weapons excelling in different situations. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > Rifle would be better if it was less about "yolo one-shot everything, die to everything" and more about survive through active gameplay while still being bursty enough. > > > > I'm still curious why you don't play DE/engi rifle despite using them as examples of viable rifle classes btw. > > Because it should be a workable and viable set on warrior. DE is the sniper in the tower. Warrior should be the grunt sweeper the street using rapid fire attacks and CQC to take enemies down. The CQC is there, but we have a pellet gun with a grenade launcher attached. This^ The rifle skills are actually decent but need a damage boost. all skills do have a use but damage across them is to low except zerk f1. The longbow needs love as well. There's no reason why warrior rifle can't be as usefull as its melee, that's just stupid lol seriously just sounds like sobx just doesn't like the class and doesn't want to see any improvements with it considering his strange views. Warriors tanky so shouldn't have powerful ranged skills in rifle yet DE is ok even though it has stealth and mobility out its a$$. Warrior rifle can't be as string as its melee cuz reasons lol. I donno warrior soldiers back in the day loved their matchlocks and not cuz they were inferior to melee lol. Also DE can have it's high dos viable build on both ranged and melee while keeping great mobility so I can see why ud think warrior shouldn't have great melee and ranged options lol. So strange people's reasonings haha why not just be honest and say I dont like warriors and no matter how bad a state their in it's fine cuz I dont want them strong lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 @"Sobx.1758" OK. We can agree that rifle needs faster 4th and 5th skill which would make it more practical. This is probably enough to give it an edge in high damage, low sustain Berserker builds and it is Anet's aim to keep it that way. I would be satisfied even with only this, although rifle will most likely remain significantly inferior/useless in core/spellbreaker builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > Rifle would be better if it was less about "yolo one-shot everything, die to everything" and more about survive through active gameplay while still being bursty enough. > > > > > > I'm still curious why you don't play DE/engi rifle despite using them as examples of viable rifle classes btw. > > > > Because it should be a workable and viable set on warrior. DE is the sniper in the tower. Warrior should be the grunt sweeper the street using rapid fire attacks and CQC to take enemies down. The CQC is there, but we have a pellet gun with a grenade launcher attached. > There's no reason why warrior rifle can't be as usefull as its melee, that's just stupid lol seriously just sounds like sobx just doesn't like the class and doesn't want to see any improvements with it considering his strange views. Warriors tanky so shouldn't have powerful ranged skills in rifle yet DE is ok even though it has stealth and mobility out its a$$. > Warrior rifle can't be as string as its melee cuz reasons lol. I donno warrior soldiers back in the day loved their matchlocks and not cuz they were inferior to melee lol. > Also DE can have it's high dos viable build on both ranged and melee while keeping great mobility so I can see why ud think warrior shouldn't have great melee and ranged options lol. So strange people's reasonings haha why not just be honest and say I dont like warriors and no matter how bad a state their in it's fine cuz I dont want them strong lol. Yeaaaaah, I mainly talk in the subforums of the classes I play and enjoy, so you sure know what you're talking about. Just the fact that I'm generally opposing buffing classes (or their weaponsets) "because someone wants -nay!- NEEDS IT TO BE STRONGER!!1" doesn't make me a hater of that class. And if all you have to say is "but but but IRL soldiers use rifles too!" inbetween some cheap ridiculing attempts, then next time please remove me from the quote before you answer so I don't get notified about it, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Id throw Revenge Counter onto the pile. I dont know what the purpose if it is anymore. The 20% damage increase doesnt matter since Full Counter doesnt do damage, and the other 2 elements arent strong enough to warrant picking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > Id throw Revenge Counter onto the pile. I dont know what the purpose if it is anymore. The 20% damage increase doesnt matter since Full Counter doesnt do damage, and the other 2 elements arent strong enough to warrant picking it. Are yu serious? It's free Resistance and Condition copy. Especially now that there are so many Condition classes running around in competitive modes which love to debilitate people and stack Conditions, Resistance will help to negate a good amount of their damage and the Copy will counter pressure these classes with stuff like Cripple or Weakness or even Blind. Tbh I don't know anyone who picked Revenge Counter for damage in the first place. If yu wanted damage, yu always picked Magebane Tether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > Id throw Revenge Counter onto the pile. I dont know what the purpose if it is anymore. The 20% damage increase doesnt matter since Full Counter doesnt do damage, and the other 2 elements arent strong enough to warrant picking it. > > Are yu serious? > It's free Resistance and Condition copy. > > Especially now that there are so many Condition classes running around in competitive modes which love to debilitate people and stack Conditions, Resistance will help to negate a good amount of their damage and the Copy will counter pressure these classes with stuff like Cripple or Weakness or even Blind. > > Tbh I don't know anyone who picked Revenge Counter for damage in the first place. > If yu wanted damage, yu always picked Magebane Tether. > > Yeah Revenge counter is 100% for the condi copy and resistance. The dps boost is good in PvE though. @"Sobx.1758" I'm so glad you answered the call btw. I think this will as always end up in the ever growing pile of agree to disagree topics. I think if you did a poll on it though you would find more warrior players think Longbow and Rifle need some help. The new ammo system does help rifle as @"sneakytails.5629" details, and it would have been perfect, except that rifle's overall damage got reduced hard, and in some cases REALY hard to the tune of 60% reduction on some skills, along with the other damage nerfs. Rifle was one of the weapons that did not need its damage numbers touched (you can make the argument for KS, GF, and Volley getting a reduction though). You can get a legit rotation out of it, and you can set up some decent combos, and each would have worked well with the old damage numbers and not been OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Crazy idea but what if the GM trait Dual Wielding from Arms traitline was changed to support Ranged weapons instead. Crackshot can and should be removed, and the Ranged weapon auto bonus should be made baseline. Longbow still needs a hardcore rework though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > Crazy idea but what if the GM trait Dual Wielding from Arms traitline was changed to support Ranged weapons instead. > Crackshot can and should be removed, and the Ranged weapon auto bonus should be made baseline. > > Longbow still needs a hardcore rework though. > > Not going to disagree entirely. The AA bonuses from crack shot do need to be baseline and then make the trait do something else. Dual Wielding needs to be replaced, and putting something to support ranged weapons would be great. Something like what DH and Ranger have, +X% damage while beyond a certain range from the target? Doesn't fit Arms though. Make it so that projectiles fly 100% faster and pierce, when you perform a projectile finisher or whirl finisher gain quickness for 2s with an ICD of 10s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > Something like what DH and Ranger have, +X% damage while beyond a certain range from the target? Doesn't fit Arms though. Make it so that projectiles fly 100% faster and pierce, when you perform a projectile finisher or whirl finisher gain quickness for 2s with an ICD of 10s? What I meant is that Ranged weapons will have a +15% Attackspeed boost. Instantly makes Rifle generate Adrenaline faster, Longbow stack Burning faster, Harpoon gun be just as useless but faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > Id throw Revenge Counter onto the pile. I dont know what the purpose if it is anymore. The 20% damage increase doesnt matter since Full Counter doesnt do damage, and the other 2 elements arent strong enough to warrant picking it. > > Are yu serious? > It's free Resistance and Condition copy. > > Especially now that there are so many Condition classes running around in competitive modes which love to debilitate people and stack Conditions, Resistance will help to negate a good amount of their damage and the Copy will counter pressure these classes with stuff like Cripple or Weakness or even Blind. > > Tbh I don't know anyone who picked Revenge Counter for damage in the first place. > If yu wanted damage, yu always picked Magebane Tether. > > Copying conditions isnt that valuable, given that the only debilitating ones you either remove with the Full Counter (blind), remove otherwise (immob) or just clear it off by weapon-swapping. And while the resistance is nice, its duration is far too low to really be saving you. Youre better off using the Stance for that. Plenty of people, 20% extra damage on a 2.0 scaling skill is quite nice. Magebane Tether didnt give you nearly as much damage, comparatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > Something like what DH and Ranger have, +X% damage while beyond a certain range from the target? Doesn't fit Arms though. Make it so that projectiles fly 100% faster and pierce, when you perform a projectile finisher or whirl finisher gain quickness for 2s with an ICD of 10s? > > What I meant is that Ranged weapons will have a +15% Attackspeed boost. > Instantly makes Rifle generate Adrenaline faster, Longbow stack Burning faster, Harpoon gun be just as useless but faster. > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > Something like what DH and Ranger have, +X% damage while beyond a certain range from the target? Doesn't fit Arms though. Make it so that projectiles fly 100% faster and pierce, when you perform a projectile finisher or whirl finisher gain quickness for 2s with an ICD of 10s? > > What I meant is that Ranged weapons will have a +15% Attackspeed boost. > Instantly makes Rifle generate Adrenaline faster, Longbow stack Burning faster, Harpoon gun be just as useless but faster. > AH! Why not the 20% attack speed that is there? Now that I think of it, why limit it anyway, why not jut turn it into a flat 20% for any weapon? I'm not sure people would spec into Arms just for that, I don't think that would so strong as to become mandatory like MMR or FG are. Condi builds would still take Furious, and Power Meme builds would still take Burst Precision, but applying that 20% attack speed globally would be a good middle ground between them. It wouldn't get taken in PvE endgame content, too much quickness that would override it, but it would be nice in competitive play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aridon.8362 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Don't forget all the other weapons that need reworking, lite literally everything, rifle, daggers, torch, warhorn, maces, for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth.9731 Posted March 26, 2020 Author Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Aridon.8362" said: > Don't forget all the other weapons that need reworking, lite literally everything, rifle, daggers, torch, warhorn, maces, for crying out loud. Again, my list was a few of the things that I think Anet needs to address in the near future. Are there other changes that need to occur? Absolutely. Overall, I think Warrior is in a good place after the patch, but a few things are performing IMO. I personally feel that Sword and Longbow need changes more than any other Warrior weapon. Rifle still isn't great but it has its place in Zerker builds and it works well there. Dagger is fine as is and is probably the best MH weapon Warrior has. Again, Torch seems to be working well in the Zerker builds that use it. I think Warhorn is actually a pretty decent support weapon now and MH Mace is really good in Body Blow CC builds. I think Warrior overall is working well. If they fix the broken traits, add a bit more sustain to the class, and rework the outdated weapons, Warrior will be in a really good spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge.8724 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 For sword main hand, I like the current concept of it but can't decide weither to play power or condi with it. My main problem is the burst skill "Flurry". The damage is too low for that long activation time. However, if the damage was buffed by 50% and the activation time was the same that you have when you have quickness, but it'll be it's default speed. This would make more sense for a "flurry" skill. Yet, the main problem right now aside of that is still it's identity, off-hand sword needs to be 100% reworked as well as most the Arms trait line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord.9074 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Main point here is Sword main hand is mostly ok, but its big damage skill is slow and cluky + it seems it has a low crit rate modifier.. The burst immob is hard to land. Off hand sword is useless. Main hand Mace is useless, the burst is very difficult to land and everything else is slow and does low damage. The block is okish. Off hand mace could be good if tremor wasn't a projectile. Longbow problem is the Burst is a projectile and the AOEs are projectiles makes it impossible to use. The auto attack is also bad. the fan of fire only works point blank to do any dammage yet its ranged. Hammer sucks now it does no dammage. Rifle is ok. GS is ok Main hand axe is ok Off hand axe is ok shield is ok, would bee better if it had a longer travel distance for the stun and the stun was longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Warlord.9074" said: > Rifle is ok. Quickly, ~~someone~~ @"Psycoprophet.8107" call him a warrior hater! No? uh, ok... :disappointed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Warlord.9074" said: > > Rifle is ok. > > Quickly, ~~someone~~ @"Psycoprophet.8107" call him a warrior hater! > No? uh, ok... :disappointed: I agree with him tho. Ok isn't the bar I want weapon or skills to be set at regardless of class in question. I want this to be a great game with increasing population where classes have great weapons and great skills :) If a weapon is just ok that just means it could should be improved to improve enjoyment and effectiveness of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Warlord.9074" said: > > > Rifle is ok. > > > > Quickly, ~~someone~~ @"Psycoprophet.8107" call him a warrior hater! > > No? uh, ok... :disappointed: > > I agree with him tho. Ok isn't the bar I want weapon or skills to be set at regardless of class in question. > I want this to be a great game with increasing population where classes have great weapons and great skills :) > If a weapon is just ok that just means it could should be improved to improve enjoyment and effectiveness of use. Based on his post as a whole saying "it's ok" is equivalent to "it doesn't need buffs". Which is what I said and subsequencially was told I must be against warrior as a whole. Now apparently "you agree with it", good job. :D edit: ah, so you just didn't understand what he wrote. I won't bother then. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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