Conditon dmg

[Sansar.1302]

Remove condition dmg and restore power dmg plz

[Dawdler.8521]

Someone just got killed by a condi on their nerfed power build that most likely was OP before? I will assume so judging by a short kneejerk reaction thread.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

current meta is condibunkerCCtrash, so he has a point. power doesn't attack on its own... condi spams their circles around and waits.

[Yasai.3549]

Is that all yu have to say?

I mean look, I also play Power builds and I'm hanging in there, and stuff like Condi spam Druids and Condi spam Necro really grinds my gears.

 

But next time, actually post with some effort to prompt a discussion or offer some feedback?

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

Power shouldn't go up, rather the condi should be tweaked from here. We shouldn't be boosting things, but take a safer approach since they are trying to put everything in line otherwise we'll just be repeating power creep, and then the point of the balance reset would be moot.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Sansar.1302" said:

> Remove condition dmg and restore power dmg plz

 

 

Removing conditions is indeed a great way of dealing with them.

 

So what you do to remove them is, you look what utility skills your class has that can remove conditions. Then you look at what traits it has that removes them, finally you consider equipping 1 or 2 sigils of cleansing. If that's somehow not enough, there's a rune called antitoxin.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

well, Rev swith their 1million stacks of torment without any effort ARE a problem.

[Fish.2769]

Condi damage isn't the issue, it's the amount of spammable Condi application that's become the problem.

[Virdo.1540]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> well, Rev swith their 1million stacks of torment without any effort ARE a problem.

 

still melee only.

[Virdo.1540]

> @"Fish.2769" said:

> Condi damage isn't the issue, it's the amount of spammable Condi application that's become the problem.

 

condi dmg & application isnt the problem.

The tank-condi-stats are the main thing.

[aspirine.6852]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> well, Rev swith their 1million stacks of torment without any effort ARE a problem.

 

Rev will get cc-ed to death if they are not very careful. So perhaps the high damage output is justified. And I doubt it is very easy to pull off in a cc spam zerg.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> well, Rev swith their 1million stacks of torment without any effort ARE a problem.

 

Even if you get like 20 stacks of torment, it's just 1 condition. You can just cleanse it very easily.

[Svarty.8019]

> @"Fish.2769" said:

> Condi damage isn't the issue, it's the amount of spammable Condi application that's become the problem.

 

This is a good observation. The operative word here is "become". I should elaborate.

 

Anet are making another expac. Expect more power creep. Why even bother to fix things before that's in place?

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

>yu

 

Why do you keep doing this :anguished:

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > @"Fish.2769" said:

> > Condi damage isn't the issue, it's the amount of spammable Condi application that's become the problem.

>

> This is a good observation. The operative word here is "become". I should elaborate.

>

> Anet are making another expac. Expect more power creep. Why even bother to fix things before that's in place?

 

We know pretty much nothing about the next expansion, it doesn't make much sense to wait -for a example- a year with any balance changes just because *at some point* something new will be released.

[pninak.1069]

I think condi got more counterplay. even if you got a spec focussed on condi cleanse as long as you got power you gonna do more dmg than condi gear. unless you run full zerker and fpcus on optimizing dmg rather than condi dmg mitigation

[ArlAlt.1630]

Nerf Mesmer!

[Jski.6180]

Remove resistances effect on condi dmg and make it soft cc and add in a new boon or add to protection a -33% condi dmg taken effect.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Remove resistances effect on condi dmg and make it soft cc and add in a new boon or add to protection a -33% condi dmg taken effect.

 

Always liked this idea!

[Galmac.4680]

I would say, nerf all condi builds to that low level of necros, then our OP should be fine.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> > well, Rev swith their 1million stacks of torment without any effort ARE a problem.

>

> Even if you get like 20 stacks of torment, it's just 1 condition. You can just cleanse it very easily.

 

no, you can't. Because there is also burning, chilled, bleeding etc pp at the same time.

 

1v1 is not the only thing going on.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> no, you can't. Because there is also burning, chilled, bleeding etc pp at the same time.

>

> 1v1 is not the only thing going on.

 

Well obviously you shouldn't be able to 1v2 so I assume it's like 2v2, 2v3 or 3v3. In that case, you have way stronger kiting options and your teammate and you can share your condi cleanses with each other (aoe cleanses exist on many classes).

 

edit: I forgot about bigger fights such as GvG, in that case you should have dedicated cleansers anyway.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > @"Fish.2769" said:

> > Condi damage isn't the issue, it's the amount of spammable Condi application that's become the problem.

>

> condi dmg & application isnt the problem.

> The tank-condi-stats are the main thing.

 

I wonder what would happen if Trailblazer was removed. Or if anything that has Toughness + Condition Damage or Condition Damage + Expertise on it was removed. I'll bet a lot more people would start using -20% Condition Duration/Damage foods and would probably even invest more in to traits or runes that have similar effects. Then Condition builds would be pretty well useless because they would have very low duration, in most cases 10 - 20% tops, and many people would be using duration/damage reduction to further counter that ( which more people should be doing **right now** anyway ).

 

I don't disagree that certain stats are over stacked. But I also think Trailblazer isn't the worst offender despite it being a popular complaint. I've said previously that people don't often say anything about Boon Duration or healing builds but they are equally as over stacked and problematic with the added benefit of being substantially more useful in groups.

 

If condi-tank stats are removed and/or nerfed, healing and boon stats need to get the same treatment. If not, we would then have certain builds near immortal through sheer durability that Conditions would have previously been the answer to. And if we're going to give other stats the same treatment as condi-tank stats, may as well go the whole nine yards and add the PvP amulet system to further extinguish build diversity.

 

Bottom line is that WvW is rife with imbalance and endless potential for niche builds to over perform in what ever area they excel. We can remove the possibility for Condition builds to include defensive stats but I guarantee it will give rise to builds having free reign in a kingdom where once they were contained.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Sansar.1302" said:

> > Remove condition dmg and restore power dmg plz

>

>

> Removing conditions is indeed a great way of dealing with them.

>

> So what you do to remove them is, you look what utility skills your class has that can remove conditions. Then you look at what traits it has that removes them, finally you consider equipping 1 or 2 sigils of cleansing. If that's somehow not enough, there's a rune called antitoxin.

 

Well said.

 

I found this poll by @"ArchonWing.9480" particularly enlightening.

Lots of voters take very few condi cleanse in their builds. It is likely due to this that some say condi is OP.

And there are those who say they can manage with just a couple of condi cleanse which implies that condi isn’t OP.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101029/how-many-on-demand-condi-clears-do-you-usually-have

 

[Fish.2769]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > > @"Fish.2769" said:

> > > Condi damage isn't the issue, it's the amount of spammable Condi application that's become the problem.

> >

> > condi dmg & application isnt the problem.

> > The tank-condi-stats are the main thing.

>

> I wonder what would happen if Trailblazer was removed. Or if anything that has Toughness + Condition Damage or Condition Damage + Expertise on it was removed. I'll bet a lot more people would start using -20% Condition Duration/Damage foods and would probably even invest more in to traits or runes that have similar effects. Then Condition builds would be pretty well useless because they would have very low duration, in most cases 10 - 20% tops, and many people would be using duration/damage reduction to further counter that ( which more people should be doing **right now** anyway ).

>

> I don't disagree that certain stats are over stacked. But I also think Trailblazer isn't the worst offender despite it being a popular complaint. I've said previously that people don't often say anything about Boon Duration or healing builds but they are equally as over stacked and problematic with the added benefit of being substantially more useful in groups.

>

> If condi-tank stats are removed and/or nerfed, healing and boon stats need to get the same treatment. If not, we would then have certain builds near immortal through sheer durability that Conditions would have previously been the answer to. And if we're going to give other stats the same treatment as condi-tank stats, may as well go the whole nine yards and add the PvP amulet system to further extinguish build diversity.

>

> Bottom line is that WvW is rife with imbalance and endless potential for niche builds to over perform in what ever area they excel. We can remove the possibility for Condition builds to include defensive stats but I guarantee it will give rise to builds having free reign in a kingdom where once they were contained.

 

But healing did get nerfed in the last balance patch due to it being crept with power. I don't disagree some stat combos should never have been brought into the game and could be look at being toned down if anything.

 

However, -10% damage reduction actually does nothing against Conditions because Conditions are armour ignoring damage... There's only one food off the top of my head that help lower the damage by -5%, everything else again, off the top of my head is -% Condition Duration. The issue that comes with this if is you run into a power build, -20% (Example) Condition Duration food won't do jack to help you survive whereas -10% damage reduction will, same vice versa against a Condition build. There are still a couple classes that can out-cleanse Condition spam builds but for the most part, they don't deal enough damage back to actually kill said person which leads it to either a stale-mate or someone gets help...

 

Obviously there are classes that excel at cleansing and still deal a lot of damage (Engi & Ele comes to mind) but for the most part as i said before, Condition re-application/spam is the bigger issue than the damage from Conditions itself. Yes, before you jump on me, Boon re-application/spam also needs to be toned down some more.