Dantheman.3589

> @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > This whole thread is just about creating counterplay to the immobilize, not removing it or altering it. No one and I mean NO ONE complained about Entangle until recently--you can be CC'd out of it super easily and prior to the stability nerfs people would walk or teleport out of it. > > You might as well delete druid entirely because bads simply cannot handle this spec. Healing was too OP (despite being the goal of the spec) so it got nerfed, staff mobility was too OP got nerfed, and now ancient seeds is a problem because stability is now stackable instead of unlimited for a duration. > > This forum is literally what gutted druid to begin with, now we have suggestions to give it 'damage' or 'support' back. How about...immobilize IS support, you're all dying to it, aren't you? Heck yeah brother couldn’t have it put it better.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > > > I think every class with strong dps AND strong support would definitely win in a "every player has to play another build"-setup. > > > > > Guard, Rev and Necro would be my top bets. > > > > > Ele, Ranger, Engi and Warrior would probably be also pretty serious contenders but I doubt there are enough viable builds atm to keep a full team on-par with the ones mentioned earlier. I'm not saying they don't have strong builds but in specifically the setup OP established, I think there's just not enough viable variety with the current balance. > > > > > Mesmer and thief would probably fail pretty bad since I don't think their support would be nowhere good enough to contend with the others and especially thief would lack pretty much everything in this kind of setup. Mesmer maaaaybe if they'd run different variations of burst builds and manage to end the fight before it even starts but I don't think so. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > If u cannot win an at on 5 thief than u bad. > > > > > > > > > > Are u serious?. What great builds do thieves offer? Keep in mind, everyone has to play a different build.. > > > > > 5 thieves against 5 guards? I doubt there would be any chance for the thieves if the guards are just camping close and mid, there's just nowhere near enough damage nor sustain to do anything. Again.. what great builds have thieves available? p/d condi? Is pretty much useless against guards, especially with a support.. d/p? Nowhere near enough damage to spike through aegis, shields, ... > > > > > Same for Rev, Necro, probably even Ranger. > > > > > > > > Imagine thinking thief can do nothing about aegis and blocks > > > > > > I mean, sure, you can use shortbow 4 to interrupt blocks, but how exactly do you intend for the thieves to kill the guardians? The guardian can literally just sit on the points and the thieves are powerless to do anything. 5 thieves in general is atrociously bad, 5 thieves and you cant share builds? Yeesh. > > > > Ok get a team of 5 guards and I’ll gladly beat u with a 5 thief team. > > No, you wont. There is a reason people have done well with 5 guard teams in AT before (yes, they were memeing, but still), but no one has even tried to bring a 5 thief team to an AT before. Because they would get clapped and lose in round 1. If I were to put in the effort, what would happen is that your team of 5 thieves would lose embarassingly, and you will ignore it ever happened. But thats not worth the effort. I’m sure u can train for months in preparation for a Daily at. Omegalul your embarrassing your self on the forums.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > > > I think every class with strong dps AND strong support would definitely win in a "every player has to play another build"-setup. > > > > > Guard, Rev and Necro would be my top bets. > > > > > Ele, Ranger, Engi and Warrior would probably be also pretty serious contenders but I doubt there are enough viable builds atm to keep a full team on-par with the ones mentioned earlier. I'm not saying they don't have strong builds but in specifically the setup OP established, I think there's just not enough viable variety with the current balance. > > > > > Mesmer and thief would probably fail pretty bad since I don't think their support would be nowhere good enough to contend with the others and especially thief would lack pretty much everything in this kind of setup. Mesmer maaaaybe if they'd run different variations of burst builds and manage to end the fight before it even starts but I don't think so. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > If u cannot win an at on 5 thief than u bad. > > > > > > > > > > Are u serious?. What great builds do thieves offer? Keep in mind, everyone has to play a different build.. > > > > > 5 thieves against 5 guards? I doubt there would be any chance for the thieves if the guards are just camping close and mid, there's just nowhere near enough damage nor sustain to do anything. Again.. what great builds have thieves available? p/d condi? Is pretty much useless against guards, especially with a support.. d/p? Nowhere near enough damage to spike through aegis, shields, ... > > > > > Same for Rev, Necro, probably even Ranger. > > > > > > > > Imagine thinking thief can do nothing about aegis and blocks > > > > > > I mean, sure, you can use shortbow 4 to interrupt blocks, but how exactly do you intend for the thieves to kill the guardians? The guardian can literally just sit on the points and the thieves are powerless to do anything. 5 thieves in general is atrociously bad, 5 thieves and you cant share builds? Yeesh. > > > > Ok get a team of 5 guards and I’ll gladly beat u with a 5 thief team. > > No, you wont. There is a reason people have done well with 5 guard teams in AT before (yes, they were memeing, but still), but no one has even tried to bring a 5 thief team to an AT before. Because they would get clapped and lose in round 1. If I were to put in the effort, what would happen is that your team of 5 thieves would lose embarassingly, and you will ignore it ever happened. But thats not worth the effort. NoOnEhaSeVRbroUghTa5tEeFteamToanAtbeFore

> @"Kovu.7560" said: > Nobody above wood league dies to ranger pets. > > Cut back on Druid's immobilization cheese and replace it with some relevant damage or actual team support options (that aren't heavily outclassed by other professions). Marks and traps should trigger on the roots, roots should have near 0 health and ancient seeds should flat out not exist (and be replaced by aforementioned team support or offensive supporting options). Alternatively, remove the roots of entangle (the elite) entirely and replace it with a visual effect of rooting with a single instance of 2s of unblockable (but still dodgeable) immobilize. > Druid is a meme at this point, and not even a funny one. > > There is an immobilize-spamming elementalist build that could probably be looked at, too, but someone with more experience on the profession can touch on that. > > ~ Kovu Or just don’t play druid if you don’t like that playstyle? It’s hardly even worth running 90% over core of soulbeast imo. It’s a bunker counter cuz bunkers are slow and bulky and that’s how the game should be

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > I think every class with strong dps AND strong support would definitely win in a "every player has to play another build"-setup. > > > Guard, Rev and Necro would be my top bets. > > > Ele, Ranger, Engi and Warrior would probably be also pretty serious contenders but I doubt there are enough viable builds atm to keep a full team on-par with the ones mentioned earlier. I'm not saying they don't have strong builds but in specifically the setup OP established, I think there's just not enough viable variety with the current balance. > > > Mesmer and thief would probably fail pretty bad since I don't think their support would be nowhere good enough to contend with the others and especially thief would lack pretty much everything in this kind of setup. Mesmer maaaaybe if they'd run different variations of burst builds and manage to end the fight before it even starts but I don't think so. > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > If u cannot win an at on 5 thief than u bad. > > > > > > Are u serious?. What great builds do thieves offer? Keep in mind, everyone has to play a different build.. > > > 5 thieves against 5 guards? I doubt there would be any chance for the thieves if the guards are just camping close and mid, there's just nowhere near enough damage nor sustain to do anything. Again.. what great builds have thieves available? p/d condi? Is pretty much useless against guards, especially with a support.. d/p? Nowhere near enough damage to spike through aegis, shields, ... > > > Same for Rev, Necro, probably even Ranger. > > > > Imagine thinking thief can do nothing about aegis and blocks > > I mean, sure, you can use shortbow 4 to interrupt blocks, but how exactly do you intend for the thieves to kill the guardians? The guardian can literally just sit on the points and the thieves are powerless to do anything. 5 thieves in general is atrociously bad, 5 thieves and you cant share builds? Yeesh. Ok get a team of 5 guards and I’ll gladly beat u with a 5 thief team.

> @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > I think every class with strong dps AND strong support would definitely win in a "every player has to play another build"-setup. > Guard, Rev and Necro would be my top bets. > Ele, Ranger, Engi and Warrior would probably be also pretty serious contenders but I doubt there are enough viable builds atm to keep a full team on-par with the ones mentioned earlier. I'm not saying they don't have strong builds but in specifically the setup OP established, I think there's just not enough viable variety with the current balance. > Mesmer and thief would probably fail pretty bad since I don't think their support would be nowhere good enough to contend with the others and especially thief would lack pretty much everything in this kind of setup. Mesmer maaaaybe if they'd run different variations of burst builds and manage to end the fight before it even starts but I don't think so. > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > If u cannot win an at on 5 thief than u bad. > > Are u serious?. What great builds do thieves offer? Keep in mind, everyone has to play a different build.. > 5 thieves against 5 guards? I doubt there would be any chance for the thieves if the guards are just camping close and mid, there's just nowhere near enough damage nor sustain to do anything. Again.. what great builds have thieves available? p/d condi? Is pretty much useless against guards, especially with a support.. d/p? Nowhere near enough damage to spike through aegis, shields, ... > Same for Rev, Necro, probably even Ranger. Imagine thinking thief can do nothing about aegis and blocks

Imagine ppl complaining about builds like decap druid. The only way to have any offensive value as druid is with immob and either knockback/condi. To take this druid cements the fact that their build has terrible sustain and if they want more sustain like from nature magic than their build will only be good enough to decap nodes and almost never “win” the 1v1 by getting the node. Even then there is such a thing as damage, teleports, stability and condi cleanse all of which is a build brings a nice amount a decap build can be totally forced out of relevance- I mean plz it’s a 1v1 spec(though it has alittle support) that I can demolish as a thief or a rev and then just rotate and do actually useful stuff

> @"Avatar.3568" said: > 5 Ranger !! Ranger is number 2 though

If u cannot win an at on 5 thief than u bad.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > > > > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential > > > > > > > > > > > > Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter. > > > > > > > > > > no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario > > > > > Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage. > > > > > In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win. > > > > > > > > You're comparing the damage of a build with a ton more bulk and cover to keep damage ticking to one with almost no sustain that can lose every bit of damage output from a single cleanse. Of course it's going to out dps non burn builds, that's all you apply. If you stand still and never cleanse then burn guard will kill you much faster, but if you DO cleanse then it's the opposite. If burn guard did little damage then it would quite literally be the most useless condi build to ever exist, ever. That's the tradeoff of having a single condi that does any damage, it HAS to have it front loaded more than other condi builds because its damage is stopped by even minimal cleanse. If you bring low cleanse against a scourge then you're in for a lot of frustration that you're always taking damage after you expend all your resources. You can bring low cleanse against a burn guard and still survive because of how low the condi output is overall. No need to worry about cover condi or what condi to prioritize cleansing, just cleanse the burns before the stacks get high and after key skills, and don't stand in SoJ; someone pointed out that it's a PvE skill designed to use against stationary targets and now people in PvP are complaining about it. Says a lot about the status of the PvP community. > > > > > > I am not comparing a bulky build. If you’d bother to listen u would’ve check how pitiful the numbers for necro are in areas and that includes reapplication- burn guard is just better in maintaining condition pressure. > > > > > > I’d also like to point out that it’s baffling that you are set in pointing out one of the strongest builds in the game is actually under performing. > > > > Scourge is naturally more bulky than DH, and again burn is all you apply as guardian so of course reapplication is going to be higher. The inverse is that cleanse is disproportionately much more effective against burn DH because of the sheer lack of cover condi. It's not one of the strongest builds in the game, it's a gimmick build that people refuse to l2p against, and I don't often say l2p. It has very clear and exploitable counters, but kitten we have people complaining about SoJ so people aren't actually trying to play around it, they're running in head first and getting upset that they die. Bring cleanse, use it at the right times, bring range pressure. > > It has counters and also counters a lot of stuff hence why its actually usable. If it was nothing but counter able ppl would’ve l2p along time ago And if wanna tell me o scourge is less counterable than omg lol I see scourge on other when I’m duoing with a dps then it’s food but then again so is dh but than again I’m actually good. Solo q to plat3 is ez and it’s omg ez on dh tell me otherwise than lol u ain’t playing dh well.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > > > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential > > > > > > > > > > Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter. > > > > > > > > no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario > > > > Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage. > > > > In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win. > > > > > > You're comparing the damage of a build with a ton more bulk and cover to keep damage ticking to one with almost no sustain that can lose every bit of damage output from a single cleanse. Of course it's going to out dps non burn builds, that's all you apply. If you stand still and never cleanse then burn guard will kill you much faster, but if you DO cleanse then it's the opposite. If burn guard did little damage then it would quite literally be the most useless condi build to ever exist, ever. That's the tradeoff of having a single condi that does any damage, it HAS to have it front loaded more than other condi builds because its damage is stopped by even minimal cleanse. If you bring low cleanse against a scourge then you're in for a lot of frustration that you're always taking damage after you expend all your resources. You can bring low cleanse against a burn guard and still survive because of how low the condi output is overall. No need to worry about cover condi or what condi to prioritize cleansing, just cleanse the burns before the stacks get high and after key skills, and don't stand in SoJ; someone pointed out that it's a PvE skill designed to use against stationary targets and now people in PvP are complaining about it. Says a lot about the status of the PvP community. > > > > I am not comparing a bulky build. If you’d bother to listen u would’ve check how pitiful the numbers for necro are in areas and that includes reapplication- burn guard is just better in maintaining condition pressure. > > > > I’d also like to point out that it’s baffling that you are set in pointing out one of the strongest builds in the game is actually under performing. > > Scourge is naturally more bulky than DH, and again burn is all you apply as guardian so of course reapplication is going to be higher. The inverse is that cleanse is disproportionately much more effective against burn DH because of the sheer lack of cover condi. It's not one of the strongest builds in the game, it's a gimmick build that people refuse to l2p against, and I don't often say l2p. It has very clear and exploitable counters, but kitten we have people complaining about SoJ so people aren't actually trying to play around it, they're running in head first and getting upset that they die. Bring cleanse, use it at the right times, bring range pressure. It has counters and also counters a lot of stuff hence why its actually usable. If it was nothing but counter able ppl would’ve l2p along time ago

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong. > > > > > > > > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it. > > > > > > > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential > > > > > > Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter. > > > > no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario > > Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage. > > In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win. > > You're comparing the damage of a build with a ton more bulk and cover to keep damage ticking to one with almost no sustain that can lose every bit of damage output from a single cleanse. Of course it's going to out dps non burn builds, that's all you apply. If you stand still and never cleanse then burn guard will kill you much faster, but if you DO cleanse then it's the opposite. If burn guard did little damage then it would quite literally be the most useless condi build to ever exist, ever. That's the tradeoff of having a single condi that does any damage, it HAS to have it front loaded more than other condi builds because its damage is stopped by even minimal cleanse. If you bring low cleanse against a scourge then you're in for a lot of frustration that you're always taking damage after you expend all your resources. You can bring low cleanse against a burn guard and still survive because of how low the condi output is overall. No need to worry about cover condi or what condi to prioritize cleansing, just cleanse the burns before the stacks get high and after key skills, and don't stand in SoJ; someone pointed out that it's a PvE skill designed to use against stationary targets and now people in PvP are complaining about it. Says a lot about the status of the PvP community. I am not comparing a bulky build. If you’d bother to listen u would’ve check how pitiful the numbers for necro are in areas and that includes reapplication- burn guard is just better in maintaining condition pressure. I’d also like to point out that it’s baffling that you are set in pointing out one of the strongest builds in the game is actually under performing.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong. > > > > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it. > > > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential > > Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter. no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage. In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong. > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it. Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential

> @"Avatar.3568" said: > > @"Filip.7463" said: > > In 8v8 single player doesnt matter that much. So someone who is p3 (5v5) will be possibly s2 (8v8) > > This is the most funniest patt Just allow 5 q ez. Party size is capped at 5 but the strict restriction of a minimum size party is actually choking pvp out of relevance so this could bring it back without being too op Just a theory though, it might not work actually

Make it done plz

> @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > The number of people defending 30,000 burn dmg per death for every single death here is unconscionable. No skill should be able to output THAT much damage in ANY scenario. You can at LEAST dodge high spike direct dmg attacks. You can't do that with burns once they've been applied, and dodging the first two spikes means there are still burn spikes that will happen because of the passive application of burns. And there's no anti-condi dmg state in the game available to all classes aside from Hoelbrak Rune - and Resistance Rune doesn't protect you from the spike once your actual resistance boon goes out. YOu will still die to 30K burn dmg. Literally nothing else in the game can spike damage that high. > > > > How do you think guards generate burning? There is only ~4 skills that actually do burning damage. Almost all applications of burning come from F1. That means you need to generate 20-30 hits to generate a burning stack spike. If you were getting hit by 20-30 hits from most power classes in a single spike, you would probably also be dead. Guard's numbers are significantly lower in order to facility burn damage. > > > > You know what burn guard are really good against? Bunkers. You know what this meta is? Bunkers. We are starting to get to the point of no class being able to kill bunkers 1v1. Burn guard is one of the last now that grenades got nerfed. How about we buff things back to reasonable levels rather than nerfing everything into no bunkers only. > > That's actually a better solution. I have no idea why Rabid Amulet is still in the game. And C Revs LOVE to abuse that amulet (because their sources of resistance take care of the condition damage). > > And what of the elites that got nuked? "Chilled to the Bone" and Prime Light Beam need their damage back. That would help fight some bunkers. Especially when the balance team seems to think revs spamming Jade Winds every 10 seconds are okay. > > The balance team doesn’t understand anything. This is obvious considering that they nerfed everything after pof and claimed that the game needed a super big and special balance patch because it became “power crept”. Not to mention follow up memes about “locked up” which don’t help them look smart, but who cares about that. 2 cents- don’t expect actual balance across classes and skills...

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation. > > > > > > > > > > "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2. > > > > > > > > > > I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win? > > > > > > > > Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme. > > > > > > Youre the one who, inexplicably, referenced that period of the game. Despite not knowing that period of the game at all. Im just baffled you keep talking about things you dont know despite having a successful prediction rate of 0%, and pretty poor rate of correctly identifying what is, and isnt strong. And no, but I guess if you have no argument (because you know you're wrong), you have to resort to ad hominem. I only saw DE as enemies in those 2v2 seasons. They were free wins. I did not lose a single one, not even the one time my ally DCd for half the match. > > > > > > > But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line. > > > > > > Considering *what*? You havent said a single thing of substance. > > > > And I quote- “ there is a reason necro is well known for winning 1v2”. While you are over there laughing to yourself I’m here in front of everyone on the forums saying I’ll gladly take you in a 1v1 on any class or build and dumpster it over and over again until I am more “familiar” with the game. > > You ... quote a sentence that doesnt exist. What? But yeah at this point its pretty clear you have no argument, so there is no point in me humouring your attempt at distracting from the fact that you have no argument. And even when I beat you, its not like you will say "oh Im sorry, I was wrong". Youll just ignore it. So, pass. Ok we can collect some quotes so everyone can laugh- “how many of those necros where 1v1 builds like idk reaper” “core necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2” “meanwhile you can just crush them from afar” “a deadeye could never under *any circumstances could beat a necro 1v1” “I OnLy SaW dE As eNeMiEs DuRing tHoSe 2v2 sEaSoNs” “I dId NoT LoSe a SinGle One” Quiet a research job u did here

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*. > > > > > > > > > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25 > > > > > > > > > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest. > > > > > > > > > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time. > > > > > > > > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation. > > > > > > "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2. > > > > > > I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win? > > > > Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme. > > Youre the one who, inexplicably, referenced that period of the game. Despite not knowing that period of the game at all. Im just baffled you keep talking about things you dont know despite having a successful prediction rate of 0%, and pretty poor rate of correctly identifying what is, and isnt strong. And no, but I guess if you have no argument (because you know you're wrong), you have to resort to ad hominem. I only saw DE as enemies in those 2v2 seasons. They were free wins. I did not lose a single one, not even the one time my ally DCd for half the match. > > > But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line. > > Considering *what*? You havent said a single thing of substance. And I quote- “ there is a reason necro is well known for winning 1v2”. While you are over there laughing to yourself I’m here in front of everyone on the forums saying I’ll gladly take you in a 1v1 on any class or build and dumpster it over and over again until I am more “familiar” with the game.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity > > > > > > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2. > > > > > > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*. > > > > > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25 > > > > > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest. > > > > > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time. > > > > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation. > > "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2. > > I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win? Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme. But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game. > > > > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable. > > > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity > > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2. > > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*. > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25 > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest. > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time. Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Jekkt.6045" said: > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > @"Jekkt.6045" said: > > > > 1. mug deals damage > > > > > > > > 2. might stacks, vulnerability, zerk amulet, separation sigil etc > > > Can you actually run the numbers instead of just telling me > > > > > > > > > > > 3. zerk, vulnerability, more damage from stun etc > > > > > > That was the weirdness though: how would I go from 0-25 stacks of vuln instantly out of a stealth? And where would they get 25 on their own? They literally popped out of stealth and did this from thin air, no prior encounter. > > > > > > > > > > > nothing you mention is out of order. mug is pretty normal. 11k dj is on the higher end, 4.5k shatter too but both are possible under certain conditions. > > > > > > > > i'm way too lazy to run the numbers but i've played full zerk deadeye the past week and mug deals around 1k damage that can't crit and i hit a ranger for more than 10k with dj once. > > > > mesmer: > > 5-8 stacks vuln from stun (8 if they rupt) > > 12 stacks vuln from power spike on stun > > 12 stacks might from mantra chanel > > +50% shatter damage on cc > > +15% crit damage on cc > > +8.5% damage vuln trait (17 stacks x 0.5%) > > +sigils and runes > > > > pre feb patch you could literally oneshot every single class except ranger with shatter mesmer. 4.5k crits sounds about right after the global damage nerf. spec can't do that anymore because power spike damage and scaling sucks now. > > > > wrong > gs2 also gives might/vulnerability, crit damage on CC ( dueling ) is baseline 15%, extra 10% on CC/under 50%, so its 25% total. > + 50% shatter dmg on cc, im assuming you mean mental anguish? its 50% in pve, in pvp its 10%/20% ( 20% when controlled ) > Pre feb, core 1shot couldnt reliably 1shot most classes, thief had passive, holo had passive, rev had too much hp, warrior had too much hp ( usually left with 5-15% hp, but rng rolls could actually kill occasionally ) > It was mostly about 1shoting people that are under 80% hp, or 1shoting weavers since suprise 1shot mes was like the only thing that could get them, oh and usual necro bullying. > > EDIT > I just remember that rangers had passive that made pet take the stun instead of ranger, so that didnt work either, also I think you also were getting vulnerability, > also also, cmes with chaos armor also could give weakness so even more dice rolling for kills xd > > EDIT v2 for OP > @"Firebeard.1746" > RN im playing glass power mirage, and my average shatter is around ~3k-3,1k dmg. Its very possible to land 4,5k shatter, EXPECIALLY if allies buff you ( cough might from warrior cough ), and those are average hits not the peak That ranger passive is also very weak with a 300 second cd acting as a single stun break. I’ve literally only noticed players in silver/gold on non meta builds running that or at least in the past year.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth. > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game. > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable. > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2. > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*. You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > @"Leafstorm.1349" said: > > > > So for everyone who is dumb enough to defend this build by saying that it wont work against a real team, well, that is not the problem here. The problem doesnt exist in ATs or anything of the sort. The problem is that when I q into ranked and this build is farming pugs because its braindead and applies mega burning stacks, which are then covered because you know, its a team fight and thats what happens, my pugs are instantly dead. I'm not here for tips. I've multiple top 100 titles and even for ATs, my account is in top 40 for the most emblems held. No, this thread is about literal braindead players being carried by a spec so simple that a rat could play it and climb much higher than what their skill level should ever allow. The build is unhealthy for the game. Actually, one could say that its more unhealthy than nade holo ever was as it takes that little skill. There have been builds that have been this unhealthy in the past such as condi thief being able to apply 20+ stacks of poison etc. and they have been reworked or nerfed. If you really want to see the impact that this spec is having on the game, go back to last season's top 250/100/25/etc. and look at the ratings, then go look right now. T250 is literally sitting at 1500 and T100 is far below P2 lol. Its a joke. People dont want to play this trash. So again, its unhealthy for the game. > > > > > > So you are saying that a build that requires team fights (for condi cover, since guard has only a small number of condis outside burn) and is incredibly squishy (~15k hp) is the problem? I don't get it. Condi thief was a problem because it had mobility and could provide its own cover. Core guard has one of the worst mobilities out of any class. Your rune almost always has to be 25% ms rune, which don't even function with condi. It also has one invun.. which it needs to channel for. If there ever was a class that could be easily bursted down, its core guard. > > > > > > The reason core guard is good now is the combination of overall nerfed damage and that ranger is in a bad place. Rangers used to be 90-10 vs guard 1v1. Holo also used to deal with guards easily, but that has also been nerfed. And i say 'good', but i rarely see burn guard above mid gold. > > > > > > I understand the forum needs something to complain about, but core guard really isn't the target you should be looking at. A few buffs to underperforming classes and burn guard is again at the wayside. > > > > U do realize ppl are mostly talking about burn dh which has 20k hp and is probably the best build in the meta rn. Also as someone around when condi thief was in its prime I can tell u it’s way better than condi thief ever was. Also ranger has never been a winning MU into guard that is pure delusion. Core guard would destroy both ranger and holo in 1v1 not too long ago, so what are u crying about guard is busted > > Literally everything beats it 1v1 if played by someone with an iq over 40. > > Wait for the stealth to run out, don't run onto where the traps obviously are, kill defenseless DH, take point. > > It shouldn't be listed in even top 10 builds, let alone #1. But expecting people to make plays requiring iq over 40 is too much I suppose. > > I've yet to come across a burn DH that presented the slightest challenge 1v1, and I play core-zerker greatsword. The only time they're dangerous is in a +1 situation, and the same can be said for literally any class/build. One of the big problems there is the don’t run into traps. This is a conquest game where nodes are at least 50% of the battle. If I simply set a parameter as follows - “go where ever you want if it will contribute towards being able to kill players” than the game would look very different and we’d even see cheese comps with condi trap ranger, as the top 1v1er due to ability to cc with a lot of condis while they run around, and the rest bunker supports who can kite where ever they want. It would actually look exactly like wow arenas with survival hunters, mist walker monks healing on the go and occasional meme burst comps like double dks set on 1 shooting rogue+mage comps.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief. > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time. > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth. > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game. > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable. Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity