Kodama.6453

Overcharged shot is a meme right now. All the skill does is launching a single enemy since they removed all damage from the skill and then it even has the drawback of knocking the user back as well. Let's first get the buff through which was hinted by Anet ages ago to remove the self knockback, then you can try again.

> @"draxynnic.3719" said: > Went with the party support option. It's not what I personally dream of, but it's probably what's best for the game right now. Break up that Firebrand/Chronomancer/Renegade oligopoly, especially since guardians, mesmers, and revenants might want to get to use their new elite specialisations. Just out of interest: what do you personally dream of?

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said: > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwiVlFwCZbMLmJOUPnPdA-z5AfGZqA6WCo0B > > > > Could have potential > > Kinda late of a reply, but I got a question. Can Skelk venom be shared to allies? I Mena it would seem like a good option in this case if it can. > > Also, random idea but maybe they should introduce more lifesteal abilities for their maybe? Like Renegade's Elite. A shared life steal? Pulsing around the thief? Yes, Skelk Venom is shared with allies. Just the on-hit healing, of course, not the initial healing. Really seems like a good alternative for a supportive thief.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all. > > From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be _aspects_ (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor". > > If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;) What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human _again_ as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends. There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human. * Ventari -> Centaur * Mallyx -> Demon * Jalis -> Dwarf * Glint -> Dragon * Kalla -> Charr So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

> @"Trianox.3486" said: > > Yeah, that basically what I described 6 posts above. :-D > > We get a lot of perks while in stealth, condi removal, health per second, speed, etc., We can easily think of one of the 3 sub trait lines to stack further onto that with some stats and make all or most of these effect shareable. > And as for stealth attacks, they could become assassination or whatever, maybe even keep all their bonuses, but instead be on a 5-6 internal cooldown without breaking the shadow armor, and when shadow armor ends, you get the "reveal" bonuses of some of our traits? Or something along these lines. > > When Crab Fear says that so far nothing remotely ressemble support, I both agree and disagree. Very little now makes for a consistent well built support build, but a lot of traits baked into stealth are defensive by nature and only lack a way to share their effects. > > We could even think of Steal as a "Essence bind" or whatever fancy name allowing us to port to allies, and transfuse some of our Health... And making "steal effect shareable in a small radius" (so that Mugs hits in a 120-240 radius, and provide health to self and other), so that stealth (now shadow cloak/armor/veil) is granted in a small radius, with maybe a 240 radius dark field? > > The new "stolen skills" would instead reduce stealth-attack cooldown on hit, and provide a boon/support effect + a offensive effect bases on the % health of your target. Traits could boost either the offensive or defensive effect, reduce cooldown, or whatever. :-) Instead of stealth, I would personally center a support thief on the shadowstep mechanic. There is already a trait in core thief which heals allies around when performing a shadowstep, an elite spec could enhance this mechanic even further with supportive features in my opinion. Also deadeye already focused on the stealth mechanic for thieves, while daredevil focused on evades/dodges. The third elite spec focusing on another thief mechanic than these 2 with shadowsteps sounds like a good idea for me.

Why not just make it simple and call it "Move!".... But honestly, this is not necessary. Skill name is fine as it is.

@""Fueki.4753" In general, it seems that one big problem with elite specs is that many people are too overly attached to "conventional" roles of classes. I read repeatedly from people here on the forum that we shouldn't get stuff like support warrior, tank ranger, etc. because "you wouldn't expect them to have that playstyle when you are creating a character of this class". Which is a shame, considering that these expectations are exactly what this game tries to make different. Giving you the freedom to do exactly this, picking a character just based off of their themes and then get elite specs which enable you to fill any roles that is desired (damage, tank, support). It has some appeal to be able to play a character with a rogue thematic like thief, yet being able to have a bruiser playstyle with it thanks to daredevil. Or picking a mighty warrior who thrives in the thick of battle, but grows into an experienced veteran who is now supporting their allies and rallying them for battle instead of claiming all the glory himself.

At this point, I kinda doubt that we are going to get any balance changes. The entire workforce seems to be located on the new expansion. So we probably just get a big patch right before End of Dragons drops, but nothing before. As long as this means that the expansion will be good and fleshed out well, I can live with that.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Noah Salazar.5430" said: > > i think condi support with quickness and some stats bonus like 5%dps/condi/posion/burning/bleed to team per hit > ... ignoring the fact engineer already has a passive AoE damage buff to the team... True, but ignoring the damage buff effect, he also mentions quickness. What is holding back engineer from being a meta healer for PvE end game is the lack of important boon support. We can't buff our team with 25 stacks of might nor do we have powerful boons like alacrity or quickness to share. I think an elite spec focused on boon support would be a great addition to engineer so we can finally fill the space of the healing support in these environments.

> @"zealex.9410" said: > I really miss when they did the elite spec weeks back before hot's release. Every week you got art and then a livestream showcasing the content and that was really exciting. > > My ideal hype window would bearound 4 to 6 months. I can just hope that they don't do engineer so dirty again, tho. Scrapper was handled terribly back then. Absolutely nothing was ready to showcase on that livestream and the entire elite spec felt like they had to rush it since they decided to completely redo it 3 days before the scheduled livestream.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > Now let me ask you: what do you expect from the next elite spec? > > A nature offensive mage. > > **Inspired from:** Leshy warden > > **Mechanism:** No longer get access to the common pets. Can only choose among 5 generic pets (Leshys who are basically bodiless nature spirits) who deal clone level of damage, are nigh impervious to damage but weak to CCs. (This way you'd actually have something that survive in WvW zergs). > 1 pet per archetype with a F2 having a passive effect on the ranger (same attribute bonus that the soulbeast gain while in beast mode) and an active removing the passive (basically it would work like a signet or a nature spirit). Active should probably be different from the Soulbeast form F2, thought. > > **Weapon:** Scepter. > AA: _Needle:_ throw needles poisoning your foes and dealing damage. (like elementalist's earth scepter AA but with poison instead of bleed) > _Brambles:_ AoE on short CD applying bleed on first strike and then applying more instance of bleed each time a foe move within the AoE (can trigger on the same foe only once every second). > _Pestilence:_ Deal damage and apply poison. Add an instance of poison for each different conditions on foe. > > **Utility:** Venom (Effects only shared with pet unless it's traited) You said that a bruiser spec wouldn't bring something new to the table, since soulbeast can already get played as a bruiser... But I think the same argument applies to your suggestion here. **Theme**: The entire vines and thorns theme is already used in druid, I kinda doubt that they will repeat that. **Mechanism**: You even acknowledge that the mechanic is similar to soulbeast in giving you stat boni based on the pet you have chosen... **Weapon**: Seems like the intention is a sole focus on condition damage. Ranger already got a condition heavy weapon with soulbeast, dagger. Why repeat that and why especially repeat that with the exact same condition focus as dagger (bleeding and poison)?? **Utilities**: I actually would have loved to see venoms on ranger. Soulbeast was a perfect opportunity for that in my opinion, but they ended up with stances. Now I think that the chances for venoms are really slim. Their gameplay is already there... vulture stance and one wolf pack basically function like venoms already, except that they have a fixed duration instead of applying to x number of next attacks (which works better with rangers multi-hit skills anyway). Even the share function of venoms is already there thanks to the trait that shares stances with allies. This spec does not give me anything new for ranger. Theme, mechanics, weapon niche, all is already there in ranger thanks to their elite specs druid and soulbeast.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > Most warrior specs are more often than not used as support thought, Berserker is no exception. I mean, who didn't know about the condi bannerslave berserker (High condi damage throught _scorched earth/shattering blow/flaming fury_ along with great might gen and, well, Banners)? I don't consider this to be a support. As you mention, it is basically a condi dps spec. And additionally uses buffs then to enhance the damage of their team as well. I am using party benefitting buffs with holosmith as well, for example by using hard light arena. Still consider myself a damage dealer in that scenario, even if I bring some group buffs. > I understand the point but what more do you expect from a ranger bruiser e-spec? I mean, have your main mechanic safe while meleeing? That's what beast mode do. Have more toughness? Soulbeast already grant you 200 from pet, 150 from _pack alpha_ and if you're not happy with that there is another 180 from _signet of stone_. Damage resistance? Invuln? Stout pet, Dolyak stance, Moa stance for prot... etc. If you want to play bruiser as a soulbeast you certainly have all the tools (and more) for that. > > You can very well make an e-spec traitline with minor traits like "7-10% incoming damage reduction", give the thing a shield that summon a turtle shadow for 3-4s of prot and have everything else oriented toward damage and then exclaim "sure! that's the bruiser", but what would be the point? Would that really make the spec more of a bruiser than soulbeast already is? You'd probably easily end up dishing more damage out of this spec than out of soulbeast, would that be "OK"? I am expecting what is requested by alot of people on this forum already: a hommage to the infamous bunny thumper from guild wars 1. Give ranger a hammer with CC abilities (mostly focused on knockdown), physical skills which also enhance their CC and defensive mechanics like blocks, for example. Playstyle could resolve around the ranger CCing the enemy while their pets are attacking them. Maybe could build in features like having both pets out for a set time, while they have a stat malus on themselves to not make it overbearing. Now let me ask you: what do you expect from the next elite spec?

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > That's what I don't buy. > > I don't think building an e-spec in a seemingly different direction than what players think is the "right" one is something that ANet don't intend. Soulbeast can be used as a DPS, a bruiser (with control and survivability) and even a support. Claiming Soulbeast is a "DPS" e-spec is arguable, e-specs are meant to be versatile not pigeonholed into a single "role". What I meant is that elite specs are designed around a _primary role_. Yes, there are quite some elite specs which are very versatile. On the other hand, there are also elite specs which are kinda restricted. I don't think I saw berserker ever used in a different way than as a pure dps spec. > If we look at the reaper, you'll define it as a "DPS", yet he got plenty CCs on it's weapon (be it chill or pull) as well as minor trait and he even used to have a defensive minor. By your definition it should be labelled as a bruiser, yet most won't go past the single minor that is now a "dps" trait and the fact that the spec is mostly used for damage. I mean, half the traits revolve around control and sustain, how can it be a "DPS"? Reaper, in my opinion, is a special case. Yes, it started out as a pretty bruiser-esque elite spec. What made me think that Anet intends it as a dps spec now are the changes which they made to the spec over the time. They started removing durability from the spec in favour of more damage. There was a trait that reduced damage you take from chilled targets, now it is changed to give more damage against these. They increased the shroud degen in the elite spec, but now you can get bonus ferocity while you are using the reaper's shroud. > Soulbeast is not very different, sure it look like it's oriented toward damage but how can we ignore that it is heavy on self-sustain and generous on support? I mean, _Fresh reinforcement, unstoppable union, second skin, eternal bond, leader of the pack and predator's cunning_, those are not what I would call "dps" traits. I already mentioned this stuff and compared it to holosmith. Holosmith is heavily dps focused as an elite spec, yet it also has alot of defensive traits in their system, but this is to enable them as a melee dps spec. > I think it's just shortsighted to put the e-specs into boxes and then think that there is some kind of logic that will determine the box of the next e-spec. Fair enough, I just noticed that this point of view also tends to showcase what kind of elite specs I would love to see in the next set perfectly. I also mentioned, my best friend mains ranger for years now and she wants a bruiser elite spec badly. I am personally an engineer main since launch and am looking for a proper support elite spec. Scrapper may be used in support builds, but this build even goes as far as accepting that you have dead traits in your build. Also I would enjoy an elite spec that enables me to be a meta healer for PvE endgame content like raids and strike missions. Currently we aren't, because we are lacking the necessary boon support. Our healing is sufficient, but not having the ability to share 25 might to the team nor having alacrity or quickness to share makes us pretty undesired. On top of healing scrapper being literally the only healing build which deals absolutely no damage at all, since you are camping the med kit.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > You forget that rangers have access to Longbow on core, if you introduce a bruiser spec, you'd be able to be a powerhouse at melee range but still be a threat at range with the right stats/traits like MM-WS-new elite line....let's not give the criers more ammunitions to cry nerfs on ranger; should that happen soulbeast/core ranger and in part druid would suffer from the dip in DPS of longbow. > There are other ways to prevent something like this to happen and still release a bruiser elite spec. For example, Anet could install anti-synergy with the longbow as a weapon into the elite spec. Which isn't something unheard of, in fact, we already have cases of anti-synergy between elite spec and weapon in the game. Scrapper generates barrier from all strike damage their deal and get no benefits out of conditions. With this, scrapper has a natural anti-synergy with engineer's core pistols, which deal almost no power damage at all. Through this design, scrapper builds all are relegated towards power builds, so you don't see any condi bunker scrappers. Anti synergy can get put into the game to prevent certain combinations to take over. > People should not expect to play a longbow warrior 2.0, the class was meant to be a duellist/survivalist...not a frontline tank and boonbeast proved us all that it can be easily abused, it wasn't fun to fight boonbeast and we're all glad is gone. No one is saying that such a bruiser elite spec has to function like boonbeast, you know? And the argument that rangers were not supposed to be tanks, but duelists.... the entire point of elite specs is opening up playstyles for the classes which they couldn't fill before. Hence why scourge added support features for necromancer, deadeye gave thief long range attacks, etc. What you "expect" a ranger to be doesn't matter here. Anet has set themselves the goal that all classes will be able to fill all of these 3 roles (dps, tank, support) through elite specs. With what I have laid out, a bruiser spec is the natural next step for ranger.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > * **ranger**: support (druid) and dps (soulbeast) > > I think soulbeast have more than enough survivability to have a bruiser playstyle, thought. The spec is far from being frail when you consider defensive pets like black bear, the various stances and the natural survivability of the ranger. Having defensive tools doesn't make you automatically a bruiser elite spec, tho. Holosmith also does have quite some defense and sustain in their arsenal: heat therapy, photon wall, spectrum shield, hard light arena, light density amplifier, prismatic converter, crystal configuration: eclipse. The reason why this elite spec has these tools is not to make it a bruiser, it has been pretty clear from Anet that the intention of this spec is to be a dps machine in the first place. These tools are there to enable holosmith to function as a melee dps spec. If you are going into melee to deal damage, you need some survivability to enable you to do so. Unlike a spec like Deadeye, which can attack from afar, this spec has to get close to danger to pull of their damage numbers. And you can't deal damage if you are dead immediately, hence why this class gets these tools. If you are familiar with the terms of League of Legends: holosmith is a skirmisher, a melee damage machine that has defense built into their kit to buy them time to do their thing. Looking at soulbeast, I think it is the same for them. They are melee dps machines (dagger as a melee weapon added to them just like sword to holosmith) and they get tools to enable them doing so. It's hard for me to imagine that soulbeast was not intended as a dps spec if it straight up outdamages dps specs like holosmith and berserker, which are clearly intended as high damage options for their classes. Some more evidence I see in their design: * Elite spec weapon: Bruiser specs are usually heavily CC focused, including their weapons. Scrapper, spellbreaker, daredevil are examples of bruiser specs which are clearly intended as these and they all have hard CC located on their elite spec weapons. Soulbeast doesn't have a single CC on their mainhand dagger at all, it is entirely about damage. * Minor traits: Both the master and grandmaster minor trait are entirely damage focused (dealing more damage while you have fury, dealing more damage to targets you disabled) * Beast attacks: There is a wide array of different pets, therefore you can get many different effects. Secondary effects of the fusion can vary, but one thing is consistent. Fusing with a pet will **always** give you access to another ability that has the primary function of dealing damage. You can get supportive fusions, tanky fusions, more damage fusions. But they all will deal another damage ability. * Defensive mechanics: I already mentioned that holosmith adds more defense to the spec. If we are looking at the defensive options for soulbeasts, we see that they share quite alot of mechanics with defensive mechanics of other dps specs. Examples: eternal bond | dead or alive, dolyak stance | spectrum shield | "rise!" You definitely can create a bruiser type build out of soulbeast, but that doesn't mean that it is intended as one. Scrapper is also used in support builds (infamous heal scrapper in WvW), but it is not a support spec like scourge, druid, etc. Anet has been pretty clear that scrapper is intended as a bruiser. So I also always advocate for a proper support elite spec for engineer next. It is the most logical course for these classes.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > > Holosmith is linked to Glint's Zephyrite Crystals. That's their connection to the Crystal Desert / Elona. One more detail: holosmith also makes quite alot of sense thematically for Elona because of the connection to the sun. The sun is culturally a really important symbol for Elona. The land is called "land of the golden sun", their most famous organisation have been the sunspears, etc. The sun is worshipped and referenced alot. For holosmith, engineers took the opportunity offered by the Zephyrite crystals to "harness the power of the sun". Zephyrite crystals also include the aspects of wind and lightning (which are also used in the photonforge), but the primary focus of the technology has been light and heat, associated with the sun aspect. This is because of their own cultural preference.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > That would be a **grave mistake**, ranger does not need a sustain spec, guys try to understand for people would be far too easy to come up with some broken kitten if a sustain build would be added to ranger....remember what happened with boonbeast and druid bunker before it, nothing good ever comes from having tank sustain builds > > Look at ele, massacrated by nerfs etc etc, this community hates tank/sustain/dmg builds and right now ranger balance hangs on a thread, any more sustain nerfs and the class will collapse in WvW also > > NO to tanks builds, ranger needs non-projectile AoE dmg burst with non absurd cast time , without much sustain because rangers who want to play frontline tanks can still give a go to soulbeast, tweaking the immobilize build is enough to get something working to have fun at least Elite specs released to this point can roughly get seperated into 3 different types: dps, support, bruiser All classes to this point got access to 2 of these different playstyles. Some examples: * engineer: bruiser (scrapper) and dps (holosmith) * warrior: dps (berserker) and bruiser (spellbreaker) * **ranger**: support (druid) and dps (soulbeast) What ranger is lacking is the bruiser elite spec, something that enhances this class' survivability and adds more crowd control to it. My best friend mained ranged for years now and she is desperately waiting for this bruiser elite spec to happen. It is the most logical next step for ranger at this point. Of course, the spec will still add AoE damage. Bruiser elite specs tend to have alot of cleaving attacks. Just look at daredevil (thief's bruiser spec) or scrapper. But it will most likely not have as much damage potential as soulbeast has, since CC and durability should be the primary functions. Anet already did 2 expansions which added bruiser specs to classes. We have no reason to assume that they will simply stop creating bruiser specs.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > For Rev I think they need a norn (Jora with Greatsword) or an Asura (Vekk with scepter or Focus). > > > > Neither norn nor asura have anything to do with cantha, thought. Sure you can hide a giant ancient asura city there lost for centuries (just like in HoT) but that would be a bit ridiculous. That or something from the futur (since the mists don't really care about the timeline), still the norns hardly have anything to do with cantha, that's just not their domain. > > Doesn't matter. Kalla had nothing to do with the Desert, and there is already a Cantha themed Legend. Considering how hyped Cantha is by the community, I think it would be a waste not to give revenant a legend that has lore ties to Cantha. Not saying that they have to be human necessarily, but something that was relevant in Canthan lore would be great. Maybe a legendary Naga, for example.

> @"Oxstar.7643" said: > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > Thematically it looks superb.. Minions are skill type that would fit the Engineer really well. > > > > > > Other than theme though I'll have to agree with others here who are criticising it. > > > Well agree with everything except the trash talking of minions as a mechanic, I like Minions and have made great builds using them over the years and would love to see more classes get minion mechanics so I say Minion's are awesome and the haters can shut it!! lmao > > > > > > But in all seriousness, I would support engi minions but it would have to be done very very right to make it worth it. > > > > Minions aside, how is it thematically superb? This spec basically is "a mechanic who builds mechanical units to aid him". > > > > That is **literally** what the scrapper is. But instead of mechanical minions with different shapes, he has gyros to aid him which share a general design with nuances based on their function. I can not agree that something that just repeats what another elite spec already did is "thematically superb". > > Gyros are just glorified wells. Intially they weren't but I assume that for the sake of simplicity it became this way. As is stand, engineer has no minions that follows them around and fights for them. Like I said, I want core engie and turrets to be fixed. However. They admitted defeat on the minion part by changing them into wells, and if they don't fix turrets then that's two defeats. If they add minions then they need to make it into a win. That seems to be the issue here, nobody thinks they actually can. You are talking about the gameplay aspects of minions here, but the post you are responded to was about the **thematical** aspects of this e-spec. The whole flavour and theme underlying it. Which is close to what the scrapper already has, which is that you are constructing mechanical companions to aid you in battle. Gyros are wells in gameplay, but thematically they are mechanical constructs, just like these minions.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"ZarexWolf.5637" said: > > So, I just had a thought, maybe Revenant could get the Legendary Prisoner stance that was used for a certain part of the story, if that's still possible. Not sure what weapons could be chosen, but it'd definitely be interesting. Though, I prefer Scarlet over Joko in all honesty, which could tie into the use of rifles like I mentioned earlier. Sorry if I've been all over the place with this post. > > Joko. > > Legendary Lich Stance. Summons Minions. Uses Scepter. Revenant already got summons with the last elite spec, so I don't think minions are really a good choice. I also would go for a scepter for revenant, but make it Canthan flavoured: Legendary Ritualist, Master Togo as the legend to invoke and the skill type associated with him would be weapon spells! Basically functions like venoms, you buff allies around you with weapon spells which enhance the next x outgoing attacks.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Isn't ranger short on 2h melee weapons, wouldn't a land spear not only fit a Ranger theme but also five Ranger another 2h melee/med range option? If we go for 2handed weapons, I prefer the hammer for the glorious bunny thumper reference.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > I'm just of the opinion that if some especs get negative stats, then they all should. I don't think this should necessarily be a thing. Berserker (in my opinion) gets the stat penalty, because it is built upon a naturally tanky class (warrior has both the highest health tier and highest armor class in the game), while the elite spec is supposed to function as a glass cannon. Taking daredevil as an example, which stat penalty would you want to install in this class? Vitality/toughness? Counter-intuitive, since the spec is supposed to be a bruiser playstyle for thief. They are supposed to be more resilient. And thief already is in the lowest vitality tier... Power? Bruisers are supposed to deal some damage, even if not as much as dedicated dps elite specs. And every other stat (healing power/expertise/concentration/precision/ferocity) has a baseline of 0 and therefore the potential to hold no penalty at all.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > Looking at holosmith, it basically really is just played in one niche: dps. Which is entirely on purpose, considering that holosmith is supposed to be engineers prime dps spec. > > Berserker is Warrior's "prime DPS spec", yet has a stat reduction during Berserk. > Holosmith should be handled similarly while being in Photon Forge or while cooling down. I don't think that it necessarily needs to have a stat penalty just because berserker has one. They are building on different classes with different advantages and disadvantages. Berserker, as a warrior elite spec, naturally has more "base defense" than holosmith as an engineer elite spec. Core warrior already has the stat advantage, since it is the class with the highest health tier **and** highest armor class in the game. It is the class with the highest inherent defensive stats. Core warrior has the ability to weapon swap, allowing it to take 2 defensive weapons in the offhand. Core engineer doesn't have the ability to weapon swap, this class can just slot in a shield in the offhand as a defensive option. Both classes can get additional defense by investing utility slots and traits, of course. My point is: I think berserker got this stat penalty to move it more towards the direction of a glass cannon. It inherently already has more defense and this penalty is supposed to remove some of these stat advantages which come naturally by being a warrior. Berserker then has the opportunity to buy these defenses back in the trait system, but that requires investment that doesn't go towards more damage.

> @"Aaron.1294" said: > @"Kodama.6453" U don't expect warr to be a support when u're choosing this class as ur main or W/E. If u want a support and u want to fullfill ur role as such - just play guardian. This is one of thpse things dat I don't understand. Ppl want support spec but tell me wat another elite support spec can do dat any other support variants can't? De only way to make it work is just "make just the same skill but with increased duration and decreased smthn". And we probably end up again with just a copypaste of tempest and guardian combined - just worse bcuz warr have the highest health pool and heavy armor. The thing is **Anet is actively fighting these expectations**. From the very beginning, it has been Anet's self-set goal that every class will be able to fill any role. And several elite specs got added to enable specific classes to fill a role they were not able to before: * you like the thief thematics, but want to tank for your team? Daredevil * enjoy the dark and sadistic nature of the necromancer, but want to be a support to buff your allies? Scourge * want to be the crafty engineer and at the same time an indestructable wall? Scrapper It doesn't matter that you "wouldn't expect" a warrior to be a support, Anet wants you to be able to play any of the 3 main roles (dps, tank, support) with any class. Warrior already has 2 of these roles filled with their elite specs (dps -> berserker, tank -> spellbreaker), but they still don't have a support elite spec to enable this playstyle. You might not personally enjoy it, but Anet wants to provide the option for players who do.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > The need to rework traitlines that support the thief to also affect allies or IT WILL NOT WORK. > > Thief is a selfish class by design, they have a few shareables, but they ain't feeding the party. > > Up to this point, nothing remotely resembles a support, and the shadow medics you see are absolutely pathetic. > > Being screen clutter in wvw blob does not count as "successful". I don't think that is necessarily true. When it comes to traits, thief seems kinda as much selfish as ranger and they got a support elite spec with druid that largely enhanced their supportive features. Thief already has 2 supportive trait lines to pair such an elite spec with: trickery and shadow arts.