Psycoprophet.8107

It takes tea pot to highlight gw2 gbage pvp state? Ok.... Population speaks for itself, pre feb wasn't great but feb patch wasn't the way to go and now things are far worse.

> @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief. > > > > > > > > Absolutely no. Druid is the worst of ranger specs. Being either useless or hardcarried by a broken mechanic, that requires counterbuilding with little to no way to actually outplay even trash druids without reliable way to get out of the roots, shouldn't be model for anything. I'd rather fight soulbeasts or thieves all day long (even tho both can be quite cancerous in their own ways). > > > > > > > > > > Have you actually played it? I can tell you a decent boon beast is far, far worse than a druid any day. You outplay 'trash' druids by having stab uptime, literally any CC skill, or outranging them, all of which are pretty easy to do. I've played one of the builds that you would hate for many hours and can tell you it's only really effective in group settings (non-zerg). > > > > > > Complaints about rooting are very similar to the complaints about thieves bursting from stealth, both require counterplay. Druid roots have major counterplay as unless you are +1'ing, almost all classes have ways to instantly break out of the roots or never be rooted to begin with. Roots aren't even druid specific, it's one trait on a 10 second ICD lol. SB can actually do immob better being selfish, can have sustain all day, only lacking in condi removal unless you run runes of cleansing. > > > > > > Anyway, Thieves on the other hand are built so that counterplay will 'kill the class' (see above responses). That's just bad design all the way around, as you either have an unkillable +1ing machine and 'have to deal with it' or you 'break the entire class beyond repair'. > > > > Outplay druid by bringing stab up time & out range it lol only a few classes have enough stab up time to keep up with druids root access, lastly u say out range it yet druid can out range most classes so..... > > Just so you know, stab is useless against immobilize. If you need a further explanation, immob is a CONDITION. Here, hope this helps! > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobile > > So, you actually need another boon to render IMMOBILISE useless, it is called RESISTANCE > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resistance > > Hope that helped! I was merely pointing out how silly those counterplay tips were :)

Although unrealistic id simply like effort put into class balancing, reworks to traits etc.

> @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > > > > > > > > As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief. > > > > Absolutely no. Druid is the worst of ranger specs. Being either useless or hardcarried by a broken mechanic, that requires counterbuilding with little to no way to actually outplay even trash druids without reliable way to get out of the roots, shouldn't be model for anything. I'd rather fight soulbeasts or thieves all day long (even tho both can be quite cancerous in their own ways). > > > > Have you actually played it? I can tell you a decent boon beast is far, far worse than a druid any day. You outplay 'trash' druids by having stab uptime, literally any CC skill, or outranging them, all of which are pretty easy to do. I've played one of the builds that you would hate for many hours and can tell you it's only really effective in group settings (non-zerg). > > Complaints about rooting are very similar to the complaints about thieves bursting from stealth, both require counterplay. Druid roots have major counterplay as unless you are +1'ing, almost all classes have ways to instantly break out of the roots or never be rooted to begin with. Roots aren't even druid specific, it's one trait on a 10 second ICD lol. SB can actually do immob better being selfish, can have sustain all day, only lacking in condi removal unless you run runes of cleansing. > > Anyway, Thieves on the other hand are built so that counterplay will 'kill the class' (see above responses). That's just bad design all the way around, as you either have an unkillable +1ing machine and 'have to deal with it' or you 'break the entire class beyond repair'. Outplay druid by bringing stab up time & out range it lol only a few classes have enough stab up time to keep up with druids root access, lastly u say out range it yet druid can out range most classes so.....

Honestly its not even surprising how many gw2 players think this meta is great, I mean the meta builds are thee most brain dead little risk huge reward builds and exactly what most of its remaining sad population likes to play. Also most of the now meta classes are the popular classes within the community. Also not surprising that the games population continues to tank. Look at the passive burning playstyle of burn guards/burn dh or necros of any kind oh shit im getting out played so time to be carried by lich and 5k autos lmao or rev/renegades I don't even have to say. Not long ago it was engi/holo spamming nades lol. Games a complete mess right now when pvp is concerned. Anet have no clue how to balance pvp nor does cmc.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > **ALL** the 300 second traits > the removal of fall damage reduction > the obliteration of CC damage > > They should just revert "balance" to January 2020. this ^ 100%

They listened to the wrong people and don't play their own game enough. I find it hard to believe they could play pvp for more than a hr without noticing pvp has major balance issues between the roster of classes, if they do and dont notice well good luck then lol.

The pvp population speaks for itself post feb patch, sure pops never been really high but its never been this low so........

> @"Pati.2438" said: > @"Filip.7463" sure buff mobility .... but then don't cry about thief gets damage nerfed..... > > > For the one that don't understand my point: Thief as a daredevil get high mobility dodge (give ya swiftness and a dodge that let ya "run" a good amount of range) or a AoE damage dodge (it's good for Staff builds specialy PvE sides). What I want to say daredevil give you access to a speedy dodge role what boost your mobiliy straight up. With his three dodges abiliy it is even more powerfull for sure. So if you just buff its Power damage and rebuff its energy skills it would end as a not touch able 1v1 winning class and this class would be also able to finish a +1 in seconds.(What would be Bad game Design cause that class would be able to simply solo carry the entire Match by running from point to point and kill every Single class on it) > > This whole point lead anet to just nerf those Power skills (what directly nerf core thiefs too). After thief Mains want to do at least some damage and the pvp Balance Team isn't allowed to just rework the spec itself, just only numbers (wouldnt be that hard ... simply Remove one dodge bar. just would not hit the pve thief caus even on that build you need to have 0 energy to deal increased damage) they end in just not touch thiefs dps in February Patch that hard but now since the dps is a bit too high they end ub in nerf its mobiliy number wise..... so they nerf mobiliy skills like shortbow 5 and the mobility Signet (that nerf hit daredevil and core thief so its just Bad kitten for sure) don't get this magic made up rule these forum warriors come up with that a class with mobility can't have damage, like wtf? Thief can and should have mobility and high burst damage as its hp and armor are low, it doesnt have have defensive skills like invulnerability, blocks, aegis, or barriers and resorts to active means of defense like evades and teleporting. Why can other classes have a ton of defensive skills plus 2 evades and more hp/armor have the same burst or more and thats OK? He'll most classes have Mobility now thats not really that far behind thief lol.

Just Google gw2 burn guard or trapper dh build, im sure thats what ur gonna play in pvp anyway. Both builds are brainteasers easy and effective, have fun.

spear for warrior, pistol would 100% be useless and a waste of a new weapon guaranteed going by anets past.

Let's do as we're doing and keep nerfing other classes to inadvertently buff the others to the point that the nerfed classes are no longer fun to play, oh wait....

Last night while sitting in a keep for 15 minutes with a group watching our enemies out side gathering to prepare for their attack a core thief just appeared on our wall and one shot 3 people in succession than disappeared. Weren't back stabs but pistol shots and I mean one shot lmao. I've been playing thief for 7 yrs and know thief pretty well I'd say and crazy things like this are becoming more common. Teleporting or invisible warriors and its not just certain classes as I've seen almost every class used by hackers. 3 nights ago in wvw 2 players and I were fighting one warrior and after a few seconds I noticed his stab was being reapplied every 5 seconds and once his hp got to 50 percent would regenerate very quickly. So I said this all in team chat and the three of us messed around with him for a few minutes laughing at his expense than I said in bubble what kinda loser hacks gw2 and reported and before bubble even left he was cc'd and slaughtered in secs lol. So obviously these can be switched on and off. So for $hits I just Google gw2 hacks and man there's a lot of programs out there, sad tho players feel the need to hack.

Now nerf burn dh not rev, at least rev takes a few brain cells lol

For the most part yes

> @"Tridentuk.1625" said: > OP: Only zergs, no other playstyles allowed please! > > I mean it's not like thief is OP in terms of impact, that much is clear since most of the impact COMES from the zerg where thieves are literally the worst class. > > I don't get this type of mentality- why don't you like variety in gameplay? All you want to do is faceroll into a big blob of players hitting your rotations every time like smashing your face into a brick wall over and over with no variables other than a little bit of skill and basically the numbers in the zerg itself? Is this how you approach your general life? > > Like I'm not knocking zerging and mindflaying with a big blob of allies, it's really fun, but I don't understand how you can knock variety in gameplay. It adds complexity. Another mentality i don't get is when players built for zerg combat come and complain after being killed en route to their zerg by a player built for roaming and then come on the forums screaming that the class they got killed by are broken op. Its not like the roamer would be as effective as a zergling in a zerg fight.

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > I mean, if you stand still in a slow, small radius spinny AOE and get hit by each of its 4 hits --- the issue isn't the said spinny AOE. Yes let's also pretend guards have no skills forcing them to sit on the traps and eat all its damage if the players had its skill needed to leave said traps on cd due to having to burn it previously. Even if u get out of the trap agoodguard/dh can pull u back in almost instantly assuring ur stuck there. U guards can be as hypocritical as u want and defend ur fotm cheese but its easy for anyone to notice the huge uprising in guard/dh in pvp and its not cuz players have magically decided its now the most fun class lol.

I just want pre feb back with the addition of a few shaves to the classes that were outliers

Pve has decent population for the most part, pvp on the other hand is very low even by mmo standards.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Top dps option that also increases teammates offensive capabilites, thats a warrior imo. > > When you use a burst allies in range deal an extra 800 damage per strike for the next 5s. Can crit, blockable. > > Stuff like that? Or battle cry's that are a actual significant aoe boost to teammates dps, could have 3 tiers that u have to build up to 3rd tier, each higher tier grants a greater boon to itself and Ally's. U could also have a defensive battle cry that uses same resource that gives defensive boons such as damage reduction through a significantly in crease in armor. Maybe that's a boring idea tho lol lastly they should buff warrior banners, be cool if they actually gave boons significant enough to run them in pvp and wvw.

Top dps option that also increases teammates offensive capabilites, thats a warrior imo.

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Hyperb> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Seriously, this change does literally *nothing* other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would *marginally* care is trapper DH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth is annoying, thats why. DE being non-meta has been very good for the game. DD and core thief have been carried by stealth for years and thief mains always cry about nerfs that attempt to balance this. Stealth 1 shots are dumb. Stealth resets are dumb. Constant stealthing in combat is dumb. Stealth is far too abundant and its bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We shouldnt nerf things just because theyre annoying. A lot of people find conditions very annoying. Or Blocks, or invuln. This also doesnt actually hit regular thieves because you dont stealth in-combat. DD and Core Thief were *never* "carried by stealth", the only thing that was "carrying" them is Shortbow 5. They dropped D/P for S/P and S/D before, remember? Stealth 1 shots dont exist outside of maybe Mesmer anymore. Stealth resets are just inferior to shortbow 5 resets because the enemy can punish you for it. In-combat stealth is basically telling your enemy "kill me, Im giving you 1.25 seconds of free damage that I wont be able to defend myself during, so this is an easy guaranteed kill". Stealth is not even nearly as relevant as people think it is, let alone bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case, annoying means bad design. Yes sb 5 is strong, but stealth often enables its effectiveness. Stealth gives thieves the means to decap or enter a +1 without the enemy knowing, sb 5 just allows them to travel faster and have z axis mobility. s/d has had a role in pvp for ages, and s/p was mainly a meme when people realized that noobs dont know how to deal with pistol whip. The 2 main thief builds for the last year have been d/p and condi, both usually running SA. Combat stealth is very strong because it breaks target, and you can reposition while your opponent can only guess your location. Stealth is far more relevant than you think, and yes, too much of it is bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In that case youre gonna have an even tougher time explaining how stealth is bad design. Despite stronger versions of it existing in just about every MMO. Stealth *never* enables SB5s effectiveness. SB5 is at its best when used on its own instead of wasting initiative on stealthing. Youre rarely going to stealth up to decap, because just getting there faster vs SB5 is better in 95+% of the time. For +1ing, if youre on D/P, yeah you stealth, but again, you can still do it without that, since D/P is just one build. S/P wasnt a meme, it was an effective build until it got nerfed and things around it changed. And yeah since the disastrous february megapatch killed all other builds, those are the only 2 played, but keep in mind, condi thief was a meme before that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Combat stealth is *very* weak. Here is the problem with "it breaks target". It uh, doesnt exactly. Any channeled attack launched on a target who enters stealth will hit 100% of it. Any targetted launched on a target who then enters stealth will hit 100%. And quite often, attacks launched *after* stealth is entered still track. And thats ignoring that, in order to enter stealth, you had to give your enemy 1-1.25 seconds of free hits on you, which completely negates any damage you may have avoided in the first place. And as for repositioning, it doesnt work that way. A competent enemy can track you through stealth and negate your repositioning. Its relevant out of combat, but the proposed changes does jack all to affect that. Its completely irrelevant in combat, as the very few times you enter it, your goal is to exit it ASAP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most other mmos dont have combat stealth. Most other mmos have slower combat/movement and gamemodes other than conquest. Most other mmos have even worse pvp balance than gw2. Channeling attacks are in the vast minority of skills. Claiming you give your enemy a free second to attack you when you stealth is nonsense. A competent enemy can predict movement while stealthed, and a competent stealthed player can outplay them. Stop making things up just for the sake of arguing. > > > > > > > > > > > > What mmo's dont have combat stealth? Wow has vanish, eso cloak, BDO ninjas stealth, Archeage and even swtor has a in combat stealth lol. > > > > > > > > > > This is hyperbole. What are the cooldowns on those skills? Can every stealth skill in those games work in combat? Does stealth in those games have penalties such as movement speed reduction or not allowing the use of other skills without revealing yourself? > > > > > > > > Hyperbole, U sure u know what that word means? > > > > U stated other mmo's do not have in combat stealth, are those not skills that give stealth while in combat? I'll answer for u, yes they in fact do regardles of whether they have a cd or not so no what I said is not hyperbole but a fact no matter how u try and twist things to ur bias agenda. > > > > Also those rogue classes I spoke of have far higher bursts that actually in line with rogue likes un like the burst of thief in gw2 that is matched and often out done by higher sustain classes that aren't even designed as a burst hit and run class lmao. Thieves are mediocre tier now, once u improve in gw2 ull see thieves aren't very difficult to deal with :) > > > > > > A ridiculous exaggeration not meant to be taken literally. Other mmos versions of combat stealth dont even come close to gw2 and you know it. > > > > yes so u stated the other mmo's dont have in combat stealth- a lie > > I proved they factually do have skills that give stealth when in combat- truth > > Where's the hyperbole? > > Read the thread for context, and dont make every literal statement the cause for argument. Oh ok so I'm supposed to read a statement within a argument and not take it as written but instead how u meant it, sry not the best mind reader. Maybe word ur statements differently like for example other rogue likes have a finite amount of times they can use stealth once in combat while also being subject to CD's. True but those limitations are balanced within the spacific game,the rogue itself and the game in questions roster.

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Hyperb> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > Why? Seriously, this change does literally *nothing* other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would *marginally* care is trapper DH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth is annoying, thats why. DE being non-meta has been very good for the game. DD and core thief have been carried by stealth for years and thief mains always cry about nerfs that attempt to balance this. Stealth 1 shots are dumb. Stealth resets are dumb. Constant stealthing in combat is dumb. Stealth is far too abundant and its bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We shouldnt nerf things just because theyre annoying. A lot of people find conditions very annoying. Or Blocks, or invuln. This also doesnt actually hit regular thieves because you dont stealth in-combat. DD and Core Thief were *never* "carried by stealth", the only thing that was "carrying" them is Shortbow 5. They dropped D/P for S/P and S/D before, remember? Stealth 1 shots dont exist outside of maybe Mesmer anymore. Stealth resets are just inferior to shortbow 5 resets because the enemy can punish you for it. In-combat stealth is basically telling your enemy "kill me, Im giving you 1.25 seconds of free damage that I wont be able to defend myself during, so this is an easy guaranteed kill". Stealth is not even nearly as relevant as people think it is, let alone bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case, annoying means bad design. Yes sb 5 is strong, but stealth often enables its effectiveness. Stealth gives thieves the means to decap or enter a +1 without the enemy knowing, sb 5 just allows them to travel faster and have z axis mobility. s/d has had a role in pvp for ages, and s/p was mainly a meme when people realized that noobs dont know how to deal with pistol whip. The 2 main thief builds for the last year have been d/p and condi, both usually running SA. Combat stealth is very strong because it breaks target, and you can reposition while your opponent can only guess your location. Stealth is far more relevant than you think, and yes, too much of it is bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > In that case youre gonna have an even tougher time explaining how stealth is bad design. Despite stronger versions of it existing in just about every MMO. Stealth *never* enables SB5s effectiveness. SB5 is at its best when used on its own instead of wasting initiative on stealthing. Youre rarely going to stealth up to decap, because just getting there faster vs SB5 is better in 95+% of the time. For +1ing, if youre on D/P, yeah you stealth, but again, you can still do it without that, since D/P is just one build. S/P wasnt a meme, it was an effective build until it got nerfed and things around it changed. And yeah since the disastrous february megapatch killed all other builds, those are the only 2 played, but keep in mind, condi thief was a meme before that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Combat stealth is *very* weak. Here is the problem with "it breaks target". It uh, doesnt exactly. Any channeled attack launched on a target who enters stealth will hit 100% of it. Any targetted launched on a target who then enters stealth will hit 100%. And quite often, attacks launched *after* stealth is entered still track. And thats ignoring that, in order to enter stealth, you had to give your enemy 1-1.25 seconds of free hits on you, which completely negates any damage you may have avoided in the first place. And as for repositioning, it doesnt work that way. A competent enemy can track you through stealth and negate your repositioning. Its relevant out of combat, but the proposed changes does jack all to affect that. Its completely irrelevant in combat, as the very few times you enter it, your goal is to exit it ASAP. > > > > > > > > > > Most other mmos dont have combat stealth. Most other mmos have slower combat/movement and gamemodes other than conquest. Most other mmos have even worse pvp balance than gw2. Channeling attacks are in the vast minority of skills. Claiming you give your enemy a free second to attack you when you stealth is nonsense. A competent enemy can predict movement while stealthed, and a competent stealthed player can outplay them. Stop making things up just for the sake of arguing. > > > > > > > > What mmo's dont have combat stealth? Wow has vanish, eso cloak, BDO ninjas stealth, Archeage and even swtor has a in combat stealth lol. > > > > > > This is hyperbole. What are the cooldowns on those skills? Can every stealth skill in those games work in combat? Does stealth in those games have penalties such as movement speed reduction or not allowing the use of other skills without revealing yourself? > > > > Hyperbole, U sure u know what that word means? > > U stated other mmo's do not have in combat stealth, are those not skills that give stealth while in combat? I'll answer for u, yes they in fact do regardles of whether they have a cd or not so no what I said is not hyperbole but a fact no matter how u try and twist things to ur bias agenda. > > Also those rogue classes I spoke of have far higher bursts that actually in line with rogue likes un like the burst of thief in gw2 that is matched and often out done by higher sustain classes that aren't even designed as a burst hit and run class lmao. Thieves are mediocre tier now, once u improve in gw2 ull see thieves aren't very difficult to deal with :) > > A ridiculous exaggeration not meant to be taken literally. Other mmos versions of combat stealth dont even come close to gw2 and you know it. yes so u stated the other mmo's dont have in combat stealth- a lie I proved they factually do have skills that give stealth when in combat- truth Where's the hyperbole?

> @"Solitude.2097" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Solitude.2097" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Hyperb> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Seriously, this change does literally *nothing* other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would *marginally* care is trapper DH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth is annoying, thats why. DE being non-meta has been very good for the game. DD and core thief have been carried by stealth for years and thief mains always cry about nerfs that attempt to balance this. Stealth 1 shots are dumb. Stealth resets are dumb. Constant stealthing in combat is dumb. Stealth is far too abundant and its bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We shouldnt nerf things just because theyre annoying. A lot of people find conditions very annoying. Or Blocks, or invuln. This also doesnt actually hit regular thieves because you dont stealth in-combat. DD and Core Thief were *never* "carried by stealth", the only thing that was "carrying" them is Shortbow 5. They dropped D/P for S/P and S/D before, remember? Stealth 1 shots dont exist outside of maybe Mesmer anymore. Stealth resets are just inferior to shortbow 5 resets because the enemy can punish you for it. In-combat stealth is basically telling your enemy "kill me, Im giving you 1.25 seconds of free damage that I wont be able to defend myself during, so this is an easy guaranteed kill". Stealth is not even nearly as relevant as people think it is, let alone bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case, annoying means bad design. Yes sb 5 is strong, but stealth often enables its effectiveness. Stealth gives thieves the means to decap or enter a +1 without the enemy knowing, sb 5 just allows them to travel faster and have z axis mobility. s/d has had a role in pvp for ages, and s/p was mainly a meme when people realized that noobs dont know how to deal with pistol whip. The 2 main thief builds for the last year have been d/p and condi, both usually running SA. Combat stealth is very strong because it breaks target, and you can reposition while your opponent can only guess your location. Stealth is far more relevant than you think, and yes, too much of it is bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In that case youre gonna have an even tougher time explaining how stealth is bad design. Despite stronger versions of it existing in just about every MMO. Stealth *never* enables SB5s effectiveness. SB5 is at its best when used on its own instead of wasting initiative on stealthing. Youre rarely going to stealth up to decap, because just getting there faster vs SB5 is better in 95+% of the time. For +1ing, if youre on D/P, yeah you stealth, but again, you can still do it without that, since D/P is just one build. S/P wasnt a meme, it was an effective build until it got nerfed and things around it changed. And yeah since the disastrous february megapatch killed all other builds, those are the only 2 played, but keep in mind, condi thief was a meme before that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Combat stealth is *very* weak. Here is the problem with "it breaks target". It uh, doesnt exactly. Any channeled attack launched on a target who enters stealth will hit 100% of it. Any targetted launched on a target who then enters stealth will hit 100%. And quite often, attacks launched *after* stealth is entered still track. And thats ignoring that, in order to enter stealth, you had to give your enemy 1-1.25 seconds of free hits on you, which completely negates any damage you may have avoided in the first place. And as for repositioning, it doesnt work that way. A competent enemy can track you through stealth and negate your repositioning. Its relevant out of combat, but the proposed changes does jack all to affect that. Its completely irrelevant in combat, as the very few times you enter it, your goal is to exit it ASAP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most other mmos dont have combat stealth. Most other mmos have slower combat/movement and gamemodes other than conquest. Most other mmos have even worse pvp balance than gw2. Channeling attacks are in the vast minority of skills. Claiming you give your enemy a free second to attack you when you stealth is nonsense. A competent enemy can predict movement while stealthed, and a competent stealthed player can outplay them. Stop making things up just for the sake of arguing. > > > > > > > > > > > > What mmo's dont have combat stealth? Wow has vanish, eso cloak, BDO ninjas stealth, Archeage and even swtor has a in combat stealth lol. > > > > > > > > > > This is hyperbole. What are the cooldowns on those skills? Can every stealth skill in those games work in combat? Does stealth in those games have penalties such as movement speed reduction or not allowing the use of other skills without revealing yourself? > > > > > > > > Hyperbole, U sure u know what that word means? > > > > U stated other mmo's do not have in combat stealth, are those not skills that give stealth while in combat? I'll answer for u, yes they in fact do regardles of whether they have a cd or not so no what I said is not hyperbole but a fact no matter how u try and twist things to ur bias agenda. > > > > Also those rogue classes I spoke of have far higher bursts that actually in line with rogue likes un like the burst of thief in gw2 that is matched and often out done by higher sustain classes that aren't even designed as a burst hit and run class lmao. Thieves are mediocre tier now, once u improve in gw2 ull see thieves aren't very difficult to deal with :) > > > > > > Maybe we should copy the part,that they get revealed when they take damage > > > > And? Why does gw2 have to have the same stealth mechanics of all other mmo's? Oh thats right it doesnt. Maybe highlight the "all those rogue likes preform a higher burst in comparison to the rest of the games roster" part being that rogues are thee burst hit run archetype yet that gets left out of the equation conveniently lmao. > > Why does gw2 have to have the same BURST mechanics of all other mmo's , then ? :) it doesnt that was just a point on how other rogues and games are designed differently and can't be used to balance each other.

> @"Solitude.2097" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Hyperb> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > Why? Seriously, this change does literally *nothing* other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would *marginally* care is trapper DH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth is annoying, thats why. DE being non-meta has been very good for the game. DD and core thief have been carried by stealth for years and thief mains always cry about nerfs that attempt to balance this. Stealth 1 shots are dumb. Stealth resets are dumb. Constant stealthing in combat is dumb. Stealth is far too abundant and its bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We shouldnt nerf things just because theyre annoying. A lot of people find conditions very annoying. Or Blocks, or invuln. This also doesnt actually hit regular thieves because you dont stealth in-combat. DD and Core Thief were *never* "carried by stealth", the only thing that was "carrying" them is Shortbow 5. They dropped D/P for S/P and S/D before, remember? Stealth 1 shots dont exist outside of maybe Mesmer anymore. Stealth resets are just inferior to shortbow 5 resets because the enemy can punish you for it. In-combat stealth is basically telling your enemy "kill me, Im giving you 1.25 seconds of free damage that I wont be able to defend myself during, so this is an easy guaranteed kill". Stealth is not even nearly as relevant as people think it is, let alone bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case, annoying means bad design. Yes sb 5 is strong, but stealth often enables its effectiveness. Stealth gives thieves the means to decap or enter a +1 without the enemy knowing, sb 5 just allows them to travel faster and have z axis mobility. s/d has had a role in pvp for ages, and s/p was mainly a meme when people realized that noobs dont know how to deal with pistol whip. The 2 main thief builds for the last year have been d/p and condi, both usually running SA. Combat stealth is very strong because it breaks target, and you can reposition while your opponent can only guess your location. Stealth is far more relevant than you think, and yes, too much of it is bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > In that case youre gonna have an even tougher time explaining how stealth is bad design. Despite stronger versions of it existing in just about every MMO. Stealth *never* enables SB5s effectiveness. SB5 is at its best when used on its own instead of wasting initiative on stealthing. Youre rarely going to stealth up to decap, because just getting there faster vs SB5 is better in 95+% of the time. For +1ing, if youre on D/P, yeah you stealth, but again, you can still do it without that, since D/P is just one build. S/P wasnt a meme, it was an effective build until it got nerfed and things around it changed. And yeah since the disastrous february megapatch killed all other builds, those are the only 2 played, but keep in mind, condi thief was a meme before that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Combat stealth is *very* weak. Here is the problem with "it breaks target". It uh, doesnt exactly. Any channeled attack launched on a target who enters stealth will hit 100% of it. Any targetted launched on a target who then enters stealth will hit 100%. And quite often, attacks launched *after* stealth is entered still track. And thats ignoring that, in order to enter stealth, you had to give your enemy 1-1.25 seconds of free hits on you, which completely negates any damage you may have avoided in the first place. And as for repositioning, it doesnt work that way. A competent enemy can track you through stealth and negate your repositioning. Its relevant out of combat, but the proposed changes does jack all to affect that. Its completely irrelevant in combat, as the very few times you enter it, your goal is to exit it ASAP. > > > > > > > > > > Most other mmos dont have combat stealth. Most other mmos have slower combat/movement and gamemodes other than conquest. Most other mmos have even worse pvp balance than gw2. Channeling attacks are in the vast minority of skills. Claiming you give your enemy a free second to attack you when you stealth is nonsense. A competent enemy can predict movement while stealthed, and a competent stealthed player can outplay them. Stop making things up just for the sake of arguing. > > > > > > > > What mmo's dont have combat stealth? Wow has vanish, eso cloak, BDO ninjas stealth, Archeage and even swtor has a in combat stealth lol. > > > > > > This is hyperbole. What are the cooldowns on those skills? Can every stealth skill in those games work in combat? Does stealth in those games have penalties such as movement speed reduction or not allowing the use of other skills without revealing yourself? > > > > Hyperbole, U sure u know what that word means? > > U stated other mmo's do not have in combat stealth, are those not skills that give stealth while in combat? I'll answer for u, yes they in fact do regardles of whether they have a cd or not so no what I said is not hyperbole but a fact no matter how u try and twist things to ur bias agenda. > > Also those rogue classes I spoke of have far higher bursts that actually in line with rogue likes un like the burst of thief in gw2 that is matched and often out done by higher sustain classes that aren't even designed as a burst hit and run class lmao. Thieves are mediocre tier now, once u improve in gw2 ull see thieves aren't very difficult to deal with :) > > Maybe we should copy the part,that they get revealed when they take damage And? Why does gw2 have to have the same stealth mechanics of all other mmo's? Oh thats right it doesnt. Maybe highlight the "all those rogue likes preform a higher burst in comparison to the rest of the games roster" part being that rogues are thee burst hit run archetype yet that gets left out of the equation conveniently lmao. gw2 has to be balanced for gw2 and its design and its roster of classes with their designs in consideration and can not be balanced by comparing it to other mmo's that are far different in design as are the classes. If u don't get that u shouldn't be talking balance.