Psycoprophet.8107

Hyperb> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > Why? Seriously, this change does literally *nothing* other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would *marginally* care is trapper DH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth is annoying, thats why. DE being non-meta has been very good for the game. DD and core thief have been carried by stealth for years and thief mains always cry about nerfs that attempt to balance this. Stealth 1 shots are dumb. Stealth resets are dumb. Constant stealthing in combat is dumb. Stealth is far too abundant and its bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We shouldnt nerf things just because theyre annoying. A lot of people find conditions very annoying. Or Blocks, or invuln. This also doesnt actually hit regular thieves because you dont stealth in-combat. DD and Core Thief were *never* "carried by stealth", the only thing that was "carrying" them is Shortbow 5. They dropped D/P for S/P and S/D before, remember? Stealth 1 shots dont exist outside of maybe Mesmer anymore. Stealth resets are just inferior to shortbow 5 resets because the enemy can punish you for it. In-combat stealth is basically telling your enemy "kill me, Im giving you 1.25 seconds of free damage that I wont be able to defend myself during, so this is an easy guaranteed kill". Stealth is not even nearly as relevant as people think it is, let alone bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > In this case, annoying means bad design. Yes sb 5 is strong, but stealth often enables its effectiveness. Stealth gives thieves the means to decap or enter a +1 without the enemy knowing, sb 5 just allows them to travel faster and have z axis mobility. s/d has had a role in pvp for ages, and s/p was mainly a meme when people realized that noobs dont know how to deal with pistol whip. The 2 main thief builds for the last year have been d/p and condi, both usually running SA. Combat stealth is very strong because it breaks target, and you can reposition while your opponent can only guess your location. Stealth is far more relevant than you think, and yes, too much of it is bad for the game. > > > > > > > > In that case youre gonna have an even tougher time explaining how stealth is bad design. Despite stronger versions of it existing in just about every MMO. Stealth *never* enables SB5s effectiveness. SB5 is at its best when used on its own instead of wasting initiative on stealthing. Youre rarely going to stealth up to decap, because just getting there faster vs SB5 is better in 95+% of the time. For +1ing, if youre on D/P, yeah you stealth, but again, you can still do it without that, since D/P is just one build. S/P wasnt a meme, it was an effective build until it got nerfed and things around it changed. And yeah since the disastrous february megapatch killed all other builds, those are the only 2 played, but keep in mind, condi thief was a meme before that. > > > > > > > > Combat stealth is *very* weak. Here is the problem with "it breaks target". It uh, doesnt exactly. Any channeled attack launched on a target who enters stealth will hit 100% of it. Any targetted launched on a target who then enters stealth will hit 100%. And quite often, attacks launched *after* stealth is entered still track. And thats ignoring that, in order to enter stealth, you had to give your enemy 1-1.25 seconds of free hits on you, which completely negates any damage you may have avoided in the first place. And as for repositioning, it doesnt work that way. A competent enemy can track you through stealth and negate your repositioning. Its relevant out of combat, but the proposed changes does jack all to affect that. Its completely irrelevant in combat, as the very few times you enter it, your goal is to exit it ASAP. > > > > > > Most other mmos dont have combat stealth. Most other mmos have slower combat/movement and gamemodes other than conquest. Most other mmos have even worse pvp balance than gw2. Channeling attacks are in the vast minority of skills. Claiming you give your enemy a free second to attack you when you stealth is nonsense. A competent enemy can predict movement while stealthed, and a competent stealthed player can outplay them. Stop making things up just for the sake of arguing. > > > > What mmo's dont have combat stealth? Wow has vanish, eso cloak, BDO ninjas stealth, Archeage and even swtor has a in combat stealth lol. > > This is hyperbole. What are the cooldowns on those skills? Can every stealth skill in those games work in combat? Does stealth in those games have penalties such as movement speed reduction or not allowing the use of other skills without revealing yourself? Hyperbole, U sure u know what that word means? U stated other mmo's do not have in combat stealth, are those not skills that give stealth while in combat? I'll answer for u, yes they in fact do regardles of whether they have a cd or not so no what I said is not hyperbole but a fact no matter how u try and twist things to ur bias agenda. Also those rogue classes I spoke of have far higher bursts that actually in line with rogue likes un like the burst of thief in gw2 that is matched and often out done by higher sustain classes that aren't even designed as a burst hit and run class lmao. Thieves are mediocre tier now, once u improve in gw2 ull see thieves aren't very difficult to deal with :)

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > Why? Seriously, this change does literally *nothing* other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would *marginally* care is trapper DH. > > > > > > > > > > Stealth is annoying, thats why. DE being non-meta has been very good for the game. DD and core thief have been carried by stealth for years and thief mains always cry about nerfs that attempt to balance this. Stealth 1 shots are dumb. Stealth resets are dumb. Constant stealthing in combat is dumb. Stealth is far too abundant and its bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > We shouldnt nerf things just because theyre annoying. A lot of people find conditions very annoying. Or Blocks, or invuln. This also doesnt actually hit regular thieves because you dont stealth in-combat. DD and Core Thief were *never* "carried by stealth", the only thing that was "carrying" them is Shortbow 5. They dropped D/P for S/P and S/D before, remember? Stealth 1 shots dont exist outside of maybe Mesmer anymore. Stealth resets are just inferior to shortbow 5 resets because the enemy can punish you for it. In-combat stealth is basically telling your enemy "kill me, Im giving you 1.25 seconds of free damage that I wont be able to defend myself during, so this is an easy guaranteed kill". Stealth is not even nearly as relevant as people think it is, let alone bad for the game. > > > > > > In this case, annoying means bad design. Yes sb 5 is strong, but stealth often enables its effectiveness. Stealth gives thieves the means to decap or enter a +1 without the enemy knowing, sb 5 just allows them to travel faster and have z axis mobility. s/d has had a role in pvp for ages, and s/p was mainly a meme when people realized that noobs dont know how to deal with pistol whip. The 2 main thief builds for the last year have been d/p and condi, both usually running SA. Combat stealth is very strong because it breaks target, and you can reposition while your opponent can only guess your location. Stealth is far more relevant than you think, and yes, too much of it is bad for the game. > > > > In that case youre gonna have an even tougher time explaining how stealth is bad design. Despite stronger versions of it existing in just about every MMO. Stealth *never* enables SB5s effectiveness. SB5 is at its best when used on its own instead of wasting initiative on stealthing. Youre rarely going to stealth up to decap, because just getting there faster vs SB5 is better in 95+% of the time. For +1ing, if youre on D/P, yeah you stealth, but again, you can still do it without that, since D/P is just one build. S/P wasnt a meme, it was an effective build until it got nerfed and things around it changed. And yeah since the disastrous february megapatch killed all other builds, those are the only 2 played, but keep in mind, condi thief was a meme before that. > > > > Combat stealth is *very* weak. Here is the problem with "it breaks target". It uh, doesnt exactly. Any channeled attack launched on a target who enters stealth will hit 100% of it. Any targetted launched on a target who then enters stealth will hit 100%. And quite often, attacks launched *after* stealth is entered still track. And thats ignoring that, in order to enter stealth, you had to give your enemy 1-1.25 seconds of free hits on you, which completely negates any damage you may have avoided in the first place. And as for repositioning, it doesnt work that way. A competent enemy can track you through stealth and negate your repositioning. Its relevant out of combat, but the proposed changes does jack all to affect that. Its completely irrelevant in combat, as the very few times you enter it, your goal is to exit it ASAP. > > Most other mmos dont have combat stealth. Most other mmos have slower combat/movement and gamemodes other than conquest. Most other mmos have even worse pvp balance than gw2. Channeling attacks are in the vast minority of skills. Claiming you give your enemy a free second to attack you when you stealth is nonsense. A competent enemy can predict movement while stealthed, and a competent stealthed player can outplay them. Stop making things up just for the sake of arguing. What mmo's dont have combat stealth? Wow has vanish, eso cloak, BDO ninjas stealth, Archeage and even swtor has a in combat stealth lol.

> @"Math.5123" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Vombs.5917" said: > > > > > **Balance:** > > > > > -Eliminate decap builds by granting _prevent capture-point contribution_ debuff for **2** seconds upon knocking back & launching. > > > > > > > > > > -Reduce non-targeted mobility of thief fixing unhealthy decap interaction with Conquest. > > > > > [infiltrator’s Arrow](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow)- Requires target. Grants stealth **(3s)** on successful hit. Range increased to **1200**. > > > > > > > > > > -Convert all resurrection skills into healing abilities that only affect allies. > > > > > ([signet of Mercy](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Mercy), [battle Standard](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard), [illusion of Life](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion_of_Life), [signet of Undeath](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath), [Glyph of Renewal](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Renewal)) > > > > > (["Search and Rescue!"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Search_and_Rescue!%22), [Glyph of the Stars](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_the_Stars), [Function Gyro](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Function_Gyro), [Toss Elixir R](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R), [Transfusion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transfusion)) > > > > > ([Arcane Resurrection](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Resurrection), [Ritual of Life](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ritual_of_Life), [Medic’s Feedback](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Medic%27s_Feedback)) > > > > > > > > > > -Rework instant cast damage & **CC** abilities that _immediately_ hit the target. > > > > > [Lightning Strike](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike) - Next attack inflicts a lightning strike with **1** second delay. > > > > > [bewildering Ambush](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bewildering_Ambush) - Now procs off _interrupt_ instead of steal. **[10sICD]** > > > > > [Mantra of Pain](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain) & [Arcane Wave](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Wave) - Damage removed. Now inflicts blind **(3s)**. > > > > > [Mantra of Distraction](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Distraction), [sleight of Hand](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sleight_of_Hand) & [Primal Echoes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primal_Echoes) - Daze removed. Now _breaks enemy targeting_. > > > > > > > > > > -Convert all damage & weakness/immobilize application on **CC** traits to on _interrupt_. > > > > > ([Lightning Rod](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod), [body Blow](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Body_Blow), [Dwarven Battle Training](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dwarven_Battle_Training), [No Escape](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/No_Escape), [Expert Examination](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Expert_Examination)) > > > > > > > > > > -Applying transform ability to yourself or foe will _prevent capture-point contribution_ for their duration. > > > > > ([Lich Form](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form), [Tornado](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado), [Rampage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rampage), [signet of Humility](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility), [Toss Elixir X](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **QoL:** > > > > > -Convert all line abilities into **rings/circles/domes**. > > > > > **Rings:** ([unsteady Ground](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsteady_Ground)**[180]**, [Line of Warding](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Line_of_Warding)**[180]**) > > > > > **Circles:** ([Flamewall](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamewall)**[180]**, [Napalm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm)**[180]**) > > > > > **Domes:** ([Wall of Reflection](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wall_of_Reflection)**[360]**, [sublime Conversion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sublime_Conversion)**[360]**, [Temporal Curtain](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Temporal_Curtain)**[360]**) > > > > > > > > > > -Make must have traits for warrior & thief _baseline_ to match other profession’s elite specs 2 trait line choice variety. > > > > > ([Fast Hands](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fast_Hands) & [Preparedness](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparedness)) > > > > > > > > > > -Rework all multi-projectile melee fanning abilities to work from range like [sevenshot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sevenshot). > > > > > ([Dragon’s Claw](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Claw), [Fan of Fire](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fan_of_Fire), [splitblade](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Splitblade), [Poison Volley](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Volley)) > > > > > > > > > > -Improve combo finisher effects. > > > > > (**Whirl** produces 2x the bolts, **Projectile** effects & duration doubled, **Leap/Blast** aura duration & healing doubled) > > > > > > > > > > -Grant movement to immobile while casting abilities. > > > > > ([Meteor Shower](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower), [barrage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage), [True Shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Shot), [Kill Shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot), [Pile Driver](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pile_Driver), [Holographic Shockwave](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Holographic_Shockwave), [Ring of Warding](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Warding), [static Field](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Field)) > > > > > ([Crystal Hibernation](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Hibernation), [Whirling Defense](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense), [Empower](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empower), [Natural Convergence](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Convergence), [Fortify](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortify)) > > > > > > > > So u severely nerf thiefs mobility and disengage potential with no significant buffs to it's in fight sustain or damage, so essentially deleting class, good balance suggestion lol. > > > > > > Giving preparedness baseline is a massive buff, what do you mean lol > > > > Yes it is but its a buff thief will never see and still wouldn't counter balance those nerfs. Unless cs and da get a damage buff trickery would always be taken as it is now due to the 3 in,damage and utility the traitline gives. If Preparedness stayed as a trait giving thief 18 ini anet would just increase the cost of skills over time again as its the easiest and laziest way to nerf thief so that will be the path taken by anet. > > If Preparedness was made baseline, cs DA DD would be insane burst. Could probably be played with SD as a duelist at that point. Or sd rifle DE, if you want more mobility Honestly da doesn't give a huge damage over trickery, nor does cs. A da/cs/dd would more often than not give u only a slight discount increase over a build with trickery but maybe ur right tho it may be worth it.

Taking a look at all the hard cc's in the game and review which ones should have the damage returned to them would be one good step in balancing, Reworking the 300 sec traits to bring them back into the game as they are all but useless at present would be another.

> @"Math.5123" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Vombs.5917" said: > > > **Balance:** > > > -Eliminate decap builds by granting _prevent capture-point contribution_ debuff for **2** seconds upon knocking back & launching. > > > > > > -Reduce non-targeted mobility of thief fixing unhealthy decap interaction with Conquest. > > > [infiltrator’s Arrow](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow)- Requires target. Grants stealth **(3s)** on successful hit. Range increased to **1200**. > > > > > > -Convert all resurrection skills into healing abilities that only affect allies. > > > ([signet of Mercy](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Mercy), [battle Standard](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard), [illusion of Life](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion_of_Life), [signet of Undeath](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath), [Glyph of Renewal](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Renewal)) > > > (["Search and Rescue!"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Search_and_Rescue!%22), [Glyph of the Stars](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_the_Stars), [Function Gyro](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Function_Gyro), [Toss Elixir R](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R), [Transfusion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transfusion)) > > > ([Arcane Resurrection](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Resurrection), [Ritual of Life](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ritual_of_Life), [Medic’s Feedback](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Medic%27s_Feedback)) > > > > > > -Rework instant cast damage & **CC** abilities that _immediately_ hit the target. > > > [Lightning Strike](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike) - Next attack inflicts a lightning strike with **1** second delay. > > > [bewildering Ambush](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bewildering_Ambush) - Now procs off _interrupt_ instead of steal. **[10sICD]** > > > [Mantra of Pain](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain) & [Arcane Wave](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Wave) - Damage removed. Now inflicts blind **(3s)**. > > > [Mantra of Distraction](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Distraction), [sleight of Hand](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sleight_of_Hand) & [Primal Echoes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primal_Echoes) - Daze removed. Now _breaks enemy targeting_. > > > > > > -Convert all damage & weakness/immobilize application on **CC** traits to on _interrupt_. > > > ([Lightning Rod](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod), [body Blow](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Body_Blow), [Dwarven Battle Training](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dwarven_Battle_Training), [No Escape](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/No_Escape), [Expert Examination](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Expert_Examination)) > > > > > > -Applying transform ability to yourself or foe will _prevent capture-point contribution_ for their duration. > > > ([Lich Form](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form), [Tornado](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado), [Rampage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rampage), [signet of Humility](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility), [Toss Elixir X](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X)) > > > > > > > > > **QoL:** > > > -Convert all line abilities into **rings/circles/domes**. > > > **Rings:** ([unsteady Ground](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsteady_Ground)**[180]**, [Line of Warding](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Line_of_Warding)**[180]**) > > > **Circles:** ([Flamewall](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamewall)**[180]**, [Napalm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm)**[180]**) > > > **Domes:** ([Wall of Reflection](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wall_of_Reflection)**[360]**, [sublime Conversion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sublime_Conversion)**[360]**, [Temporal Curtain](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Temporal_Curtain)**[360]**) > > > > > > -Make must have traits for warrior & thief _baseline_ to match other profession’s elite specs 2 trait line choice variety. > > > ([Fast Hands](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fast_Hands) & [Preparedness](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparedness)) > > > > > > -Rework all multi-projectile melee fanning abilities to work from range like [sevenshot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sevenshot). > > > ([Dragon’s Claw](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Claw), [Fan of Fire](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fan_of_Fire), [splitblade](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Splitblade), [Poison Volley](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Volley)) > > > > > > -Improve combo finisher effects. > > > (**Whirl** produces 2x the bolts, **Projectile** effects & duration doubled, **Leap/Blast** aura duration & healing doubled) > > > > > > -Grant movement to immobile while casting abilities. > > > ([Meteor Shower](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower), [barrage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage), [True Shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Shot), [Kill Shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot), [Pile Driver](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pile_Driver), [Holographic Shockwave](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Holographic_Shockwave), [Ring of Warding](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Warding), [static Field](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Field)) > > > ([Crystal Hibernation](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Hibernation), [Whirling Defense](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense), [Empower](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empower), [Natural Convergence](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Convergence), [Fortify](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortify)) > > > > So u severely nerf thiefs mobility and disengage potential with no significant buffs to it's in fight sustain or damage, so essentially deleting class, good balance suggestion lol. > > Giving preparedness baseline is a massive buff, what do you mean lol Yes it is but its a buff thief will never see and still wouldn't counter balance those nerfs. Unless cs and da get a damage buff trickery would always be taken as it is now due to the 3 in,damage and utility the traitline gives. If Preparedness stayed as a trait giving thief 18 ini anet would just increase the cost of skills over time again as its the easiest and laziest way to nerf thief so that will be the path taken by anet.

Anets done a spectacular job of destroying thief over the years tho so least they are effective at something lol. Honestly I can't believe this games pvp population is as high as it is, even though its abysmally low.

devs abysmal balancing, loss of population due to their balancing and more and more bots and hacks are surfacing. Games doing well lol

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > Why? Seriously, this change does literally *nothing* other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would *marginally* care is trapper DH. > > > > > > > > Stealth is annoying, thats why. DE being non-meta has been very good for the game. DD and core thief have been carried by stealth for years and thief mains always cry about nerfs that attempt to balance this. Stealth 1 shots are dumb. Stealth resets are dumb. Constant stealthing in combat is dumb. Stealth is far too abundant and its bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > We shouldnt nerf things just because theyre annoying. A lot of people find conditions very annoying. Or Blocks, or invuln. This also doesnt actually hit regular thieves because you dont stealth in-combat. DD and Core Thief were *never* "carried by stealth", the only thing that was "carrying" them is Shortbow 5. They dropped D/P for S/P and S/D before, remember? Stealth 1 shots dont exist outside of maybe Mesmer anymore. Stealth resets are just inferior to shortbow 5 resets because the enemy can punish you for it. In-combat stealth is basically telling your enemy "kill me, Im giving you 1.25 seconds of free damage that I wont be able to defend myself during, so this is an easy guaranteed kill". Stealth is not even nearly as relevant as people think it is, let alone bad for the game. > > > > In this case, annoying means bad design. Yes sb 5 is strong, but stealth often enables its effectiveness. Stealth gives thieves the means to decap or enter a +1 without the enemy knowing, sb 5 just allows them to travel faster and have z axis mobility. s/d has had a role in pvp for ages, and s/p was mainly a meme when people realized that noobs dont know how to deal with pistol whip. The 2 main thief builds for the last year have been d/p and condi, both usually running SA. Combat stealth is very strong because it breaks target, and you can reposition while your opponent can only guess your location. Stealth is far more relevant than you think, and yes, too much of it is bad for the game. > > Annoying is 100% relevant to the person in question, and isn't indicative of design at all. In other words, your opinion. You don't like it and therefore want it nerfed. This is great break down and literally the reason for 90% of nerf posts, funny thing is if a few people spam threads on it anet will actually listen and sink their mmo even further in the hole lol, its what they do.

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said: > > > > > > And if you don't know what the skills do, their relative strength, usefulness, etc., why the hell are you complaining about a class being OP if you don't know how it works at all? > > > > Mesmer says hi, as well as mesmers say suck it up. > > Thieves are extremely dominant in WvW and as far as spvp goes with thieves being replaced by mesmers simply is not true. > > > > Except this has nothing to do with mesmer? > Also if you really want to get pedantic, release Mirage also phased thief out of sPvP entirely since it had better map mobility. This was addressed in one of Sindrener's streams, among other top thieves, many of which switched to Mirage for the weeks during its period of absolute dominance due to its strictly better mobility. > > Thieves are less dominant in WvW insofar as they have the safest roaming disengage when things go bad. Raw dueling potential by far and away goes to Soulbeast. > > If you're taking this from a perspective of mesmer as you seem to be, thief seems artificially strong because D/P Daredevil, the absolute best thief build by a mile, pretty much counters mesmer for a number of reasons. As it does Reaper, which you don't really see complaining much about its weak matchup because the rationale is fairly obvious. Although good reapers and mesmers alike stand roughly even chances against the thief with a +/- 10% variance based on skill level given the 55/45 WR favoring This^ man its like if u chose mesmer u have to constantly complain about about thief on the forums like its a right of passage lol.

> @"snoow.1694" said: > As I think there is alot of misinformation being spread about the current issue with Burn Dragonhunter and people are suggesting ineffective adjustments I would like to give my input as well, while trying to be as objective as possible, because I main Guardian since beta > > First of all, the situation we are currently witnessing with Burn DH is the result of constant overnerfs on ArenaNets side, because they don‘t simply adjust overperforming Guardian specs, but straight up eradicate them from competitive play. > Firebrand neither offers any form of damage whatsoever nor good support anymore, Core Guardians got the single most reliable way to do power damage as the slowest class ingame taken away since the symbol nerf, a nerf that makes power builds obsolete through our class mechanic and the one last gimmick build Guardians are resorting to, Burn DH, will and should be nerfed. I hope though that ArenaNet won‘t simply nerf Burn DH without giving Guardians some form of power damage, that we can land with our little mobility or I can promise the next meta will be even more bunker heavy, since Guardians will have no more incentive to invest into damage specs and Healbreakers will run on a rampage through PvP. > > As I myself think Burn DH should be nerfed as well, it is important to point out what the issue actually is. > Neither the condition „Burn“ nor Rune of the Trapper are currently overpowered for basically the same reason, other classes can‘t utilize them as well and make them feel as oppressive. Nerfing burn as an important source of damage would simply make the whole meta even more of a bunker party, nerfing RoT would change absolutely nothing. > What makes Burn DH so strong at the moment is the extreme synergy Permeating Wrath offers with Sword of Justice and Eternal Armory. Individually they aren‘t actually strong and can‘t even put up alot of burn uptime, but combined they complement each other too well. > What I think should be nerfed isn‘t Permeating Wrath, which offers base 2s burn, but Sword of Justice and Eternal Armory, by turning SoJ from a multihit attack into a one hit attack. All synergy with Permeating Wrath would be instantly gone and the gimmick wouldn’t work anymore Lol nerfing burn would make the meta more of a tank party, so it was irrelevant or wrong when thieves said the same but now it serves as a valid argument to not nerf guards burn damage lol. Never changes lol. Sry but I just used thief as a ex and for the record I agree with u.

Anet really need to make a actual effort to balance their game

> @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > Lol I love suggestions that are just "delete it and replace." > > > > > > You leave out "why delete XYZ" and "what to replace it with ABC" and "why ABC and not DEF." > > > > > > This is (one reason of many) why nerf threads don't go anywhere. > > > > True but imagine if they got reworked to preomote more of a high risk high reward type playstyle, be more fun to play imo. > > What still baffles me is when someone brings up something about 'reworking' traits or classes. I mean If you haven't been here very long you get a pass, but possibility of reworking classes, traits and such all hinge on PVE, not to mention if you haven't noticed the mode itself is put on maintenance mode until EoD release. Then you'll have even more to worry about than what's strong right now, because no doubt some of the new E-specs will absolutely be busted in some way. I've been here over 7 yrs and if u go thru my history ull see I'm pretty vocal about my faith in anet and how they have handled gw2.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > I'm actually ok with those thief changes if it got some small buffs to its burst damage. I will say tho I do like how most of ur adjustments are small. I'd love if SA was reworked to promote a high risk high reward playstyle instead of the low risk mediocre reward playstyle it is now. > > how the kitten do you want to make STEALTH trait-line promote high risk - high reward playstyle, its job for crit strikes and not for sa because they can find ways to make good use of stealth rewarding in a way that doesn't just give u high stealth access, like for example instead of thinking of sa as a trait line that provides more stealth access what if it didn't increase stealth access much but instead rewarded u for using stealth that u already had access to but in combination with certain actions like evading while in stealth uses 25% less endurance, attacks from stealth on all skills gain 10% damage boost, maybe a bonus using steal while in stealth etc. Those may not be best ideas but the idea is not to increase thief stealth up time but give it benefits while in stealth.

> @"Hogwarts Zebra.8597" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Hogwarts Zebra.8597" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > > > Guards spinny sword of fire is better at cleaving than a zerker ele's fgs. > > > > > > > > > > This is straight up a lie. > > > > > > > > I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong? > > > > - a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its own > > > > - You need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite > > > > > > > > > a single cast of SoJ bring a heavy golem down to half health > > > > Lmao yet a squishy bursty rogue class sets up a fully booned back stab on a heavy golem and wastes half his resources for stealth and has to hit from behind and knocks of like 12% of the heavy golems hp in one back stab. Gj anet gj. > > a backstab crit does way more than 12% > also, read the 2nd half of my statement Crit yeah lol, go in the mist with a cs/trick/dd zerk/divinity rune and steal backstab the heavy golem 6 times and I'll bet 4 out of 6 land 3k on it, what percentage is 3.4k?

> @"Hogwarts Zebra.8597" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > Guards spinny sword of fire is better at cleaving than a zerker ele's fgs. > > > > > > This is straight up a lie. > > > > I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong? > > - a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its own > > - You need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite > > > a single cast of SoJ bring a heavy golem down to half health Lmao yet a squishy bursty rogue class sets up a fully booned back stab on a heavy golem and wastes half his resources for stealth and has to hit from behind and knocks of like 12% of the heavy golems hp in one back stab. Gj anet gj.

> @"saerni.2584" said: > Lol I love suggestions that are just "delete it and replace." > > You leave out "why delete XYZ" and "what to replace it with ABC" and "why ABC and not DEF." > > This is (one reason of many) why nerf threads don't go anywhere. True but imagine if they got reworked to premote more of a high risk high reward type playstyle, be more fun to play imo.

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > > > If anything this video not only demonstrates how ridiculous it is for a heavy bruiser to be porting around while stealthed like a thief, but also how the burn condi is wildly strong right now. > > > > > > > > > So uh... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thief is a **heavy bruiser** too? Because last I checked, the guardian and the thief has the same base hp. What makes the guardian so *heavy* outside of its fashion style? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't make petty arguments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As if it weren't acknowledged by the entire community that Guardians is a team fighter and can stay in the middle of 3v3s or 4v4s without needing to leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As if it weren't acknowledged by the entire community that Thieves get killed easily and quickly when trying to stay in the middle of 3v3s or 4v4s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What part of a Trapper-DH's kit allows it to stay in a 4v4 any better than a thief? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're talking about a build that has 0 defensive utilities, and which takes 0 sustain traits. No RF, no healing meditations, no healing symbols, no heal on aegis, no shouts, no stunbreak, no stab. There's the F3 skill on 50s cooldown........ but if one 3s block on 50s CD is enough to make a build a "heavy bruiser" then so is your GS soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you seriously just try to make an argument that the Guardian class is no better at staying in a 4v4 on a node than the Thief class? > > > > > > > > > > > > Come on man. I know you want to find ways to argue with me, but have some self respect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, not the class as a whole, we're talking about a specific build. Obviously other guardian builds are much more durable. > > > > > > > > > > The specific build of burn trapper-DH, is not better at staying in a 4v4 on node than thief. > > > > > > > > No > > > > > > > > Watch as much of this as you'd like. We're running an AT and 3 of our players are on Guardian, 2 of them are DHs. No one is running support, it's all DPS. In the video it is quite clear that DHs are currently the lords of the team fight. At one point in Capricorn they vie over the bell for an elongated amount of time vs. some of the better players in NA in a big 4v4. The DHs in the video, despite not having a support, are just as sustainy as any team fighter. **And might I point out that a Thief would not be able to hang in the middle of that 4v4 holding the bell without instantly exploding to all of the AoE. We both know that's true.** Enough with unreasonable argument. > > > > > > > > The point being is that this argument you have that "Trap DH is as squishy as a Thief" is not true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really? No support? What was the staff+mace/shield guard running then? And what was giving AoE stability? I also see a SpB with sword/warhorn and warbanner? Looks like it takes 2x support to keep them up. Did you even take the time to look at this vid before posting it? I'm sure the other people giving you thumbs-up didn't. But I did. You're lying. > > > > > > And also, yes, they stay alive by using the trapper rune to disengage when pressured. Think about how the exact same build minus trapper rune would fare? > > > > > > To be honest, whether or not thief is 5% more or less tanky is a fairly pointless debate. My point remains that a trapper DH is not a super-sustainy heavy bruiser. You can build other DH builds like that, but not the trapper burn build. > > > > > > Take a look at the final match, where basically as soon as the revs/engis push into mid, your DHs have to stealth and kite back, because there's no way they can go toe-to-toe in that environment. > > > > > > "It can stay alive in TF even without support" -> proceeds to link video showing TWO supports. > > > > Umm not arguing either way but all guard and guard specs are a hell of a lot more than 5% tankier than the tankiest thief, talking of damage taken or mitigated by other means than evades obviously. > > Why are you allowed to discount damage mitigated by evade? Can I discount damage blocked? Because guards can evade to, it's a universal damage mitigation. Regardless as I said guard is designed around less mobility and disengage potential than thief but more in fight sustain, if u cant see that I donno man. Also with the horrendous balance currently in the game dh has a far higher burst than even the thief class which is sopose to be the squishy high mobility high burst hit and run class as the rogue likes are in all mmo's, though almost all classes beat thief in burst potential nowadays so that's not just a guard issue but a over all game balance issue. I destroy my thief's burst on my dh,reaper, soulbeast, ele and rev and can out do my thief on my warrior if the opponent is bad enough to be out played by warriors burst.

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > If anything this video not only demonstrates how ridiculous it is for a heavy bruiser to be porting around while stealthed like a thief, but also how the burn condi is wildly strong right now. > > > > > > > So uh... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thief is a **heavy bruiser** too? Because last I checked, the guardian and the thief has the same base hp. What makes the guardian so *heavy* outside of its fashion style? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't make petty arguments. > > > > > > > > > > > > As if it weren't acknowledged by the entire community that Guardians is a team fighter and can stay in the middle of 3v3s or 4v4s without needing to leave. > > > > > > > > > > > > As if it weren't acknowledged by the entire community that Thieves get killed easily and quickly when trying to stay in the middle of 3v3s or 4v4s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What part of a Trapper-DH's kit allows it to stay in a 4v4 any better than a thief? > > > > > > > > > > We're talking about a build that has 0 defensive utilities, and which takes 0 sustain traits. No RF, no healing meditations, no healing symbols, no heal on aegis, no shouts, no stunbreak, no stab. There's the F3 skill on 50s cooldown........ but if one 3s block on 50s CD is enough to make a build a "heavy bruiser" then so is your GS soulbeast. > > > > > > > > Did you seriously just try to make an argument that the Guardian class is no better at staying in a 4v4 on a node than the Thief class? > > > > > > > > Come on man. I know you want to find ways to argue with me, but have some self respect. > > > > > > > > > > No, not the class as a whole, we're talking about a specific build. Obviously other guardian builds are much more durable. > > > > > > The specific build of burn trapper-DH, is not better at staying in a 4v4 on node than thief. > > > > No > > > > Watch as much of this as you'd like. We're running an AT and 3 of our players are on Guardian, 2 of them are DHs. No one is running support, it's all DPS. In the video it is quite clear that DHs are currently the lords of the team fight. At one point in Capricorn they vie over the bell for an elongated amount of time vs. some of the better players in NA in a big 4v4. The DHs in the video, despite not having a support, are just as sustainy as any team fighter. **And might I point out that a Thief would not be able to hang in the middle of that 4v4 holding the bell without instantly exploding to all of the AoE. We both know that's true.** Enough with unreasonable argument. > > > > The point being is that this argument you have that "Trap DH is as squishy as a Thief" is not true. > > > > > > Really? No support? What was the staff+mace/shield guard running then? And what was giving AoE stability? I also see a SpB with sword/warhorn and warbanner? Looks like it takes 2x support to keep them up. Did you even take the time to look at this vid before posting it? I'm sure the other people giving you thumbs-up didn't. But I did. You're lying. > > And also, yes, they stay alive by using the trapper rune to disengage when pressured. Think about how the exact same build minus trapper rune would fare? > > To be honest, whether or not thief is 5% more or less tanky is a fairly pointless debate. My point remains that a trapper DH is not a super-sustainy heavy bruiser. You can build other DH builds like that, but not the trapper burn build. > > Take a look at the final match, where basically as soon as the revs/engis push into mid, your DHs have to stealth and kite back, because there's no way they can go toe-to-toe in that environment. > > "It can stay alive in TF even without support" -> proceeds to link video showing TWO supports. Umm not arguing either way but all guard and guard specs are a hell of a lot more than 5% tankier than the tankiest thief, talking of damage taken or mitigated by other means than evades obviously.

I'm actually ok with those thief changes if it got some small buffs to its burst damage. I will say tho I do like how most of ur adjustments are small. I'd love if SA was reworked to promote a high risk high reward playstyle instead of the low risk mediocre reward playstyle it is now.

Warrior is the only class I've played where fighting a class with a lot of blinds is so oppressive. Imo the problem lies in the loss of damage on cc's. When I'm on warrior and I time my cc or catch a thief off guard or any class the immediately stunbreak and arnt punished at all other than the loss of a stunbreak. If opponent has no stunbreak a block, barrier or whatever can be applied by the time 2-3 hits of 100 blades goes off, again barely punished. Half of warriors burst damage before the feb patch was from had cc preceeding the rest of the burst and now that's gone on top of the blanket dps nerf all skill got. If I'm on warrior and I time a well timed hard cc that has plenty of tells and connect with the thief resulting in decent damage even if they successfully had used blind on my a few times thru the fight at least when I caught them it was punishing to the thief and the fights seemed more fair. Yeah blinds in general are really effective vs war but I think it's a problem more to do with warriors current state vs some classes access to blinds. Burns are only really a issue from guards as the occur mostly passively which is not healthy for the game.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"foste.3098" said: > > All of this paints a picture that this rune set breaks the trap utility type, and will be a HUGE issue if another elite spec gets traps as a utility skill. > Yet here people are, arguing the dh when theres trapper druids running around with just as deadly condi specs, more mobility and immo for years on top. Ur not wrong, imob driud is a very strong build but the difference is the the druid doesn't absolutely need the trapper rune to be effective, it just synergize well with it and whether in combination makes it op is another argument but it doesn't 100% need the rune. What makes druid build part of the spam braindead squad is its access to imobilize and how its applied, the vines hp need a hard nerf in hp and the seed trait reworked. Again like guard if buffs are in order for druid to compensate to keep druid viable but requiring a more skillful playstyle and less brain dead cheese than I'm 100% for it.

Please add a rune that gives any class effected by reveal aegis or a rune that applies aegis at the end of every teleport. Thank u :)

> @"Math.5123" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Wow good ol gw2 forum members lol these reasonings being posted defending guards access to stealth is humourous lol. > > Regardless of hp does guards have stealth in their innate kit, do any of guards specs have stealth in their kits? Where any of the specs designed to use stealth in or out of combat judging by their kits? Do u think the dh spec was designed with the use of trapper rune? If one random run (trapper was removed would any guard specs have on demand access to stealth? Is trapper rune innate part of guard or its specs kits? > > Was guard and its specs designed to engage in combat without the use of stealth and thus given defensive skills to do so thus was balanced around sustaining itself in combat without stealth? > > Sry but only the last question is a yes. > > Anyone saying they cant understand why players are saying guard and its specs wernt designed to have on demand access to stealth are 1- being disingenuous and just arguing against the fact cuz the like the broken combination or 2- shouldn't be on forums making any discussions as they clearly are not knowledgeable nor do they have the level of understanding of the game to be making claims within a thread. > > Just saying. > > Good example for u all. > > Let's add a ruin that gives a spec aegis on reveal or at the end of a teleport, would the community rally for its removal due to the fact it would be broken on thief? I think it would and their totally reasonable arguement would be thst thief wasn't designed to have access to a on demand block like aegis right :). The community would be in a uproar but not surprisingly this community are hypocrites when it serve them and their chosen class bias. > > Trapper runes were added with hot. Same expansion that have guardian traps. Guardian was the only class that got given traps, so more likely than not; the rune was designed for dh. Thief had traps but were changed and are now preperation and don't work with the rune and ranger has traps as well, I assure u the trappers rune was not added and designed for dh, it was simply a rune added that ended up having a broken interaction with the dh class, simple as that.

> @"Supreme.3164" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > I have come to the conclusion burns are fine, burning is very strong true but burning is something very damaging in real life too so it makes sense burning is a burst condition. > > > Spamming blind is annoying but in real life when you are blind you are blind for some seconds not just your first action. So some blind spam seems fine to me. > > > Nerfing how this conditions work may need to rework full classes and i don't know it even in that case it would make much of a difference. > > > > > > > > > > U can't bring in real life and make any balance decisions based on such lol cmon so warrior hammering u on the head with a giant war hammer would only knockin down without injury/damage take, or reapers shroud 5? > > Imagine stabbing someone in the back or eating multiple arrows at once(rapid fire) lol those used to be extreme almost one shot from full hp damages ie more realistic bit was deemed unbalanced and hard nerfed so.. > > If we'd bring real life in GW2...a single staff ele would decimate a whole zerg on his own..a single meteor storm should wipe at elast 10-20 people in one go Lol that is true.

> @"whoknocks.4935" said: > You promised us more frequent patches to adjust problems on the run without leaving them untouched for months. > > And here we are, many months passed since the last huge balance patch. > > Are you working on something? Are you not? Buffs, nerfs, WvW alliance system... > > Can we get any feedback or a date more or less? > Lol gl........