Tyson.5160
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Posts posted by Tyson.5160
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With the talk of torment and the dragon rises, I begin to wonder if the scrapped concept of angels and demons, which was originally going to be the story of GW2, before the Elder Dragons, might have relevance. I’m wondering if this story may look at the prehistory of Tyria, the beginning of these elder dragon cycles as some sort of aftermath of an ancient conflict of long past, which resulted in the dragons needing to balance the all in the first place, possibly with the dragons vs these angels/demons entities.
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> @"Stephen.6312" said:
> > @"Randulf.7614" said:
> > > @"Stephen.6312" said:
> > > > @"Randulf.7614" said:
> > > >
> > > Your response about Aurene being knowledgeable about the cycle of the EDs is fair. However, you and I know that she remarked that she was learning about their role within the magical ecosystem.
> > >
> > > One thing that I think is clear here is that no one seems to have a good explanation for what constitutes an Elder Dragon. How would you explain the difference between an Elder Dragon and a lesser dragon?
> >
> > I gave it to you. She is holding the All in balance. For our purposes that is enough. We know it cannot be done if she wasn’t an elder dragon as the world would be out of balance and she’d be dead.
> >
> > This is well explained in the story
>
> "The magics do not torment you" is a statement that piques my interest. Why is Aurene doing anything more than Kralkatorrik did? What if an Elder Dragon is *chosen* by tormented magic? Did tormented magic choose Aurene? No, it rejected her, stating that Aurene "betrays her own kind".
>
> The so-called Elder Dragon of .... what ???, is nothing more than a pawn in someone elses' much, much bigger game.
Believe she us the Elder Dragon of Light or Primastic Dragon as advised in some text as well as the Gw magazine.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/september-04-2019/
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> @"Stephen.6312" said:
> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:
> > > @"Stephen.6312" said:
> > > Why do you think that Aurene is an Elder Dragon?
> > She has literally been called such several times now.
>
> By mortals. Has a fellow Elder Dragon referred to her as such?
Yeah, Aurene has...
Aurene: I'm the youngest Elder Dragon, but I wasn't born yesterday.
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> @"Jack Swiftclaw.9076" said:
> The idea of a scion for Jormag is interesting. What would it be? Has it been born? Who is it's champion?
>
> We are neglecting one aspect of this story. The Norn. Why are we getting so much about the spirts of the wild?
>
> The idea that this is just a fluff filler makes no sense to me. I'm drawn to the idea of a centaur. They were featured in the trailer and we haven't seen any. What if, and this is just a thought, we kill Jormag and replace him with a belovant centaur similar to ventari. This could be the change in tide or the human centaur war. Idk it's the idea that won't leave me. We all assume that the scion is a dragon but what if the vessal just needs to be able to channel and control the dragon magic.
With how much the Spirits of the Wild are being dissected, I wouldn’t be surprised if they consumed Jormag’s energy that or Aurene absorbs it all and puts her into a sickness that leads us to going to Cantha in order to save her and find additional entities to take on the excess magic.
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> @"voidek.5738" said:
> > @"Blocki.4931" said:
> > Pretty sure it said with next release, but I could be wrong. Anyway, might be anything from in 2 weeks to in 2 months.
> There is longest streak so far i think between Saga releases (counting Visions of the Past). I hope we get some word next week. And im not even waiting or wanting actual new episode, just missing part from other episode(s) though.. I mean, if they release it separate but delay next episode im okay with this.
There is a certain achievement that is filling in a gap between episodes that has slowly been releasing small chunks of info and lore. There is only two more events left, which if space two weeks apart, would end on November 10th. People having been speculating that once this achievement is complete, the next update would occur. If that’s the case, the next release could be November 24th, 2020.
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> @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > If Aurene is being called the dragon of light, then it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch for Primordus to absorb the other magics of the other dragons and be called the dragon of darkness.
>
> Technically, Aurene is the Prismatic Dragon.
> She absorbs magic, splits it like a prism splits light, and releases it.
> Also, prisms are specific kinds of crystals, so its fits Aurene, who still **is** a crystal dragon, better than light.
>
> If Aurene _actually_ was a dragon of Light, **all** of the other Elder Dragons would be dark dragons,
> as they merely absorb magic like dark surfaces absorb most light.
I believe she is described as both, the light and primastic. According to the living world magazine as well as other sources.
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> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:
> > @"Bast.7253" said:
> > Unless it's intentionally spent all this time avoiding focus to collect as much magic and forces as possible? If you become stronger when the others die it's kind of like that Halloween event right? Just find a nice little cubby somewhere and hide until the rest have been eliminated! That is one thing we have to consider though. Originally it posed no more threat, but with the death of others they become increasingly more of a threat. And given we don't know the location it's possible it could have absorbed the most of each elder dragon so far. Kralk, right in the ocean. Balthazar, Zhaitan right in the ocean, and Mordremoth right by the ocean. It's presumed he's much farther away but given that Jormag was able to obtain magic from Kralk, Mordremoth, and Zhaitan's death, it's reasonable to assume that Steve could have too. And potentially more as we really don't know where he is. That being said I'd imagine Primordus would have gotten a substantial power boost as well given he was last in the Fire Island chain which is really only furthest away from Kralk. I can't remember why Primordus was in that area but if he relocated due to the death of Zhaitan and Mordremoth it's reasonable to assume that Steve did as well. Jormag's really the only one that didn't move much.
> Well, Jormag was much closer to the deaths of Zhaitan and Mordremoth then Bubbles was, and its specifically made a plot point in S3 that its so far away that it absorbed little of either's power after they died(at least compared to Primordus). And while we don't know Bubbles exact location, it seems to be far closer to Cantha then Tyria, so I would presume the same would be trube of Balthazar and Kralkatorrik's deaths also. Yes Bubbles would have gotten power from it, but seemingly only the minority.
>
> Primordus moved to the Ring of Fire because there is a leyline going from there to where Mordremoth died in Dragon's stand. It moved there to feed off of the released power. IIRC, That_Shaman found that Anet even modeled a leyline tunnel in Draconis Mons going off into the direction of Dragon's Stand. As it stands, Primordus is the one most likely to be the super elder dragon of doom, not Bubbles.
If Aurene is being called the dragon of light, then it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch for Primordus to absorb the other magics of the other dragons and be called the dragon of darkness.
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> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:
> > @"radda.8920" said:
> > it's a matter of perspective. I find it much more cruel to corrupt living things and use them as toys for eternity by having them kill their own people.
> > At least primordius seeks to simply kill living beings and allows them to join the mists without becoming puppets
> Sure, but the ultimate point was that Primordus seems to put the least value in mortal life of all the Elder Dragons. So awakening him to have him fight Jormag for us isn't a good idea. Primrodus would be the greater evil in that situation.
And really since Primordus does not need living beings for minions, it fits into his goal as being the dragon of destruction and fire, with his goal to really have Tyria covered in lava and magma, gorging on magic.
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> @"Morena.4567" said:
> I agree with most of you, I definitely do and also personaly hoped for sylvari being corruptable because of Mordremoth not being around anymore, but of all things, I'm really interested if this was confirmed on any level by devs or in the game? (by "this" I mean sylvari (or any other dragon minions) being vulnerable to other Elder Dragons now only after Mordremoth's (or in generally their master's) death)
No, there hasn’t been any confirmation, will definitely be a topic to ask if they ever do a lore q/a again
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> @"Bristingr.5034" said:
> > @"Headcase.4618" said:
> > IIRC, some studios have figured out ways to allow voice actors to record their lines from home, either by sending equipment to their houses or through other means. Not saying that they should do it if already considered it, but it definitely seems possible to get some VO work done
>
> South Park did their entire "Pandemic Special" episode (recording, animation, etc.) from their homes.
They have been recording from home.
How do you think they had the VO for Sunqua peak?
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> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:
> Honestly, I find it entirely possible that literally nothing in Icebrood Saga will lead to Cantha. Instead, IBS will end, then we will get some sort of prologue chapter like "stuff going down in the Dominion of Winds and the Tengu are letting people in to help" and we will get some small map in the Dominion of Winds, and thats were we will get our first taste of Canthan-like stuff(outside of the fractal), and that leads to the Tengu wanting to return to Cantha or w/e.
>
> We have 4 more chapters, and maybe one more vision, before IBS is done. If these chapters are more two parters like the last 4 have been, that really only gives us two more maps. The next map will likely deal with the Spirits of the Wild due to Owl's return, and finish up the Norn stuff. And the last map is likely going to be the Jormag fight meta ala Dragon's Stand and Dragonfall. Neither Dragonfall, or Dragon's Stand, were particularly lore heavy maps. Instead they were mostly just big meta events, and seeing everyone we allied with through the narrative coming together. So I don't really see much Cantha stuff being dropped there.
>
> If there is anything in IBS that leads to Cantha, it seems like its going to be a last minute reveal in chapter 8 or w/e. Like Jormag's dying words are like "dude, Bubbles, Cantha, its bad!" or something.
If IBS decides to deal with Primordus then we could enter the dominion of winds as part of this saga as the Tengu have been apparently dealing with destroyers (for some reason) on either side of the wall. Could be the second to last episode before taking on Jormag in Varajer Fells.
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> @"Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324" said:
> The only bit we have about other parts of Istan is from [First Spear Hakima](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/First_Spear_Hakima#Dialogue).
First Spear Hakima: Issnur Isles had enough, and declared their independence from the rest of Istan.
As Gorgaan said, we get this small line of info from Hakima regarding the rest of Istan. I recall the rest of the island in the swamps etc. were Corsair bases.
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> @"Randulf.7614" said:
> > @"Thenme.6491" said:
> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > > > @"Thenme.6491" said:
> > > > is it voiced yet? it is almost the end of September
> > >
> > > They advised that they would be recording in September, unknown when it will be released. Saving my alt play throughs for when it’s voice recorded.
> >
> > they suggested that by September, the cutscenes would have been finished and that in September they would begin doing the rest of the content (voicing npc's,foes, etc). since I only care for the instanced content (story) being voiced and don't mind at all everything else being non-voiced (and I assumed most of the skippers feel the same) I have expected for this part to be the main focus and already voiced? for those not skipping, Is it entirely not voiced and they are going to bring all voices at once or is there voice speech here and there being added within updates?
>
> It is entirely possible they have done the recordings for those episodes, but might taking the chance to record the forthcoming episode(s) as well.
>
> They'll also wait until a Tuesday to release anything as that is standard patch day, so anything ready might wait to be bundled with other stuff
>
> Or they are just running a bit behind. Understandable given the situation
It may have pushed things back if there is an update upcoming, which adds the voice acting
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> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:
> > @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > Crecia makes a bunch of statements at the end of the episode that the Charr were nearly destroyed and that stronger leadership is needed. The ambient dialogue from other Chart in Drizzlewood advise of Crecia leading the United Legions. If there is a candidate for Khan Ur she would be it, especially if they are claiming that the Charr almost became extinct and need a new leader to rally them.
> I don't think the whole "almost became extinct" bit can be taken literally. Even if there were theaters of war elsewhere besides Drizzlewood, the charr species is **huge** and so is their territory. They have Ascalon, the Blood Legion Homelands to the north, and lands to the east of the Blazeridge. About the size of all of Elona in total. We only see fighting on Drizzlewood's front, and the land could not support even the majority of the charr species' numbers.
>
> Would have been a nice way to show fighting outside of Drizzlewood between Dominion and United Legion by having player-triggered Dominion spawns for those who have begun No Quarter or Jormag Rising in Ascalon maps... But they didn't do such so we have no clue how widespread this "charr civil war" was. But what we saw wasn't enough to risk the species.
>
> Most likely, Crecia was talking about the structure - half of the leaders have died, the peace accords with Flame got shaken, and so did the peace treaty with humans given the Dominion sieged human towns. But at best, Crecia's statements are about how Bangar was leading so many charr to Jormag's thrall, and would lead so many more, that it makes a huge dent in the charr population.
Seems like a perfect opportunity for Anet to do another community vote, and the next Khan Ur, would definitely be a huge impact to the game lore. I personally, don’t give two shits about who the next Iron and Blood Imperator are, but the Khan Ur, that definitely excites me.
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> @"Wolfb.7025" said:
> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:
> > > @"Scraggy.3814" said:
> > I think the ending of the charr will be:
> >
> > * Rytlock becomes new Blood Imperator
> > * Mia Kindleshot becomes new Iron Imperator
> > * Efram declared official Flame Imperator
> > * Malice is the only proper candidate but denies Khan-Ur position
>
> Rytlock doesn't have much of a possitive status withing Blood Legion, he basically ditched the legions for a while to do whatever unrelated to the charr he wanted and he gained some bad reputation out of that, on top of having Bangar probably bad mouthing him for "not being a good tribune like his cub is", he might be Anet's mascot but he's if anythign, the worst candidate to command anything Charr related.
>
> Mia might be a good bet to become Iron legion imperator. But there is also Bhuer Goreblade who is the head of the Adamant Guards on Black Citadel and has had plenty of screen on the Charr Personal Story. My thoughts is that we won't have an iron legion imperator, we should just wait to see how the story develops, or until Anet decides out of thin air "X is new iron imperator".
>
> Its a given Efram will be next Flame Imperator, i'm surprised he isn't already (unless Anet kills him as another excuse plot).
>
> Malice might have good intentions, but right now she's nowhere near to be a candidate; its known Ash legion is so frowned upon for being super secretive even with fellow legions (a good strategy, but that only rises suspiction and untrust) and she's still young even to be an Imperator. Khan-Ur is something that you win with effort and hard work through many, many years. Smodur was old and who knows how much time he has been working on getting the Khan-Ur title, but he was still decades far from getting the title. Malice isn't specifically doing anything for that, "denying the khan-ur position" is an overstatement as she isn't even close to it.
>
>
>
> AN on topic, remember that Khan-Ur is a serious title, its not something that someone could get just for the sake of it. We haven't had a Khan-Ur in mileniums, we won't get one now, it takes way more than everyone thinks.
Crecia makes a bunch of statements at the end of the episode that the Charr were nearly destroyed and that stronger leadership is needed. The ambient dialogue from other Chart in Drizzlewood advise of Crecia leading the United Legions. If there is a candidate for Khan Ur she would be it, especially if they are claiming that the Charr almost became extinct and need a new leader to rally them.
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> @"draxynnic.3719" said:
> I vaguely recall that there was some obscure hint of some link between the Luxons and Margonites somewhere, but I can't recall where. I have a feeling it was something that predated the release of Nightfall.
There was, however, I too am forgetting the reference
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> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:
> > @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:
> > > > @"Svennis.3852" said:
> > > > Honestly though, Crecia seems to be the character they are showing at length to be an intelligent and level headed political player. She seems like the ideal candidate to lead the United Legions in so far as we’ve seen. Seems to have less of an agenda thus far too.
> > > She can't become Blood Imperator, because she's born Flame. Imperators (and by extension, Khan-Ur candidates) have to be descended from the original Khan-Ur's four children. It's the _one_ position in charr hierarchy that is a dynasty and not based on merit or kill count. While there's no confirmation of Rytlock being of the bloodline, his interactions with Bangar have led some (myself included) to think that Rytlock may be Bangar's son.
> > >
> > > Crecia's ties to Flame and closeness to Ryland and Bangar would probably put a lot of doubt into her among the non-Blood soldiers, harming her chances at Khan-Ur position. It would be a curious plot twist to make Crecia descended from the first Flame imperator (her father _is_ denoted as being high ranking shaman), which would make her a viable candidate for Khan-Ur if enough charr support her (technically Flame Imperator too, but she's been distanced from that legion for too long).
> > >
> > > This is, of course, assuming that ANet holds to that piece of lore from The Ecology of the Charr. Post-HoT writing does have a tendency to ignore pre-Season 3 lore here and there.
> >
> > The ambient dialogue among Grothmar, show that the majority of the legions respect Crecia, she could be a possible candidate for Khan-Ur.
>
> Did a quick search on wiki. Other than Blood, the only ambient dialogue I saw about Crecia was from an Ash complimenting her spy work, which isn't the same as complimenting her leadership.
They do compliment her leadership of the United Legions in Drizzlewood though.
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> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:
> > @"Svennis.3852" said:
> > Honestly though, Crecia seems to be the character they are showing at length to be an intelligent and level headed political player. She seems like the ideal candidate to lead the United Legions in so far as we’ve seen. Seems to have less of an agenda thus far too.
> She can't become Blood Imperator, because she's born Flame. Imperators (and by extension, Khan-Ur candidates) have to be descended from the original Khan-Ur's four children. It's the _one_ position in charr hierarchy that is a dynasty and not based on merit or kill count. While there's no confirmation of Rytlock being of the bloodline, his interactions with Bangar have led some (myself included) to think that Rytlock may be Bangar's son.
>
> Crecia's ties to Flame and closeness to Ryland and Bangar would probably put a lot of doubt into her among the non-Blood soldiers, harming her chances at Khan-Ur position. It would be a curious plot twist to make Crecia descended from the first Flame imperator (her father _is_ denoted as being high ranking shaman), which would make her a viable candidate for Khan-Ur if enough charr support her (technically Flame Imperator too, but she's been distanced from that legion for too long).
>
> This is, of course, assuming that ANet holds to that piece of lore from The Ecology of the Charr. Post-HoT writing does have a tendency to ignore pre-Season 3 lore here and there.
The ambient dialogue among Grothmar, show that the majority of the legions respect Crecia, she could be a possible candidate for Khan-Ur.
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> @"Bast.7253" said:
> > @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > If it’s true that the saga is 8 episodes, then we are looking two more full maps, split in half. My thought would be below Grothmar for one full map then the one map in the middle Far Shiverpeaks, if they decide to keep the maps strictly in the established EOTN areas.
>
> What reason would they have to go near Grothmar again though? Bangar's forces have been dealt with and any more politics we have would likely take place at the Black Citadel or back in Grothmar in the already established map and keep.
>
> If I had to guess I'd assume we'll get a vision involving the refugees that fled Drizzlewood and visit a map near that area to check in with them. If not there then we'll probably just stay close to Eye of the North.
>
> Who knows though with Jormag moving through the mists and all that.
Maybe, just as Jormag retreated to a safe area in Season 3, maybe Primordus did too and went back up north to the Central Transfer Chamber. Destroyers could start erupting from the areas south of Grothmar, with Jormag’s forces being in the middle of the Far Shiverpeaks,
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If it’s true that the saga is 8 episodes, then we are looking two more full maps, split in half. My thought would be below Grothmar for one full map then the one map in the middle Far Shiverpeaks, if they decide to keep the maps strictly in the established EOTN areas.
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> @"Thenme.6491" said:
> is it voiced yet? it is almost the end of September
They advised that they would be recording in September, unknown when it will be released. Saving my alt play throughs for when it’s voice recorded.
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> @"Odin.8270" said:
> I also wanted to know when the voice update for the storyline, getting really impatient here, its like taking forever, if anyone know about the update please share, with a date of the update kindly.
Don’t think they gave one, Anet advised that they are recording ep3 and 4 in September.
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> @"Astralporing.1957" said:
> > @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:
> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > > > It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.
> > > Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the _content_ being discriminatory.
> > >
> > Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...
> The whole "discriminatory" comment is _only_ relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.
>
>
Exactly, which might be why Anet is potentially crushing Pugs and forcing people to guilds, it’s what they wanted from the get go when raids were envisioned.
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> @"Astralporing.1957" said:
> > @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.
> Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the _content_ being discriminatory.
>
Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...
[Spoiler] Jormag's true intention
in Lore
Posted
> @"Stephen.6312" said:
> > @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > With the talk of **torment** and the dragon rises, I begin to wonder if the scrapped concept of angels and demons, which was originally going to be the story of GW2, before the Elder Dragons, might have relevance.
>
> That's my gut instinct, too. In my opinion, tormented magic is demonic in origin and nature. The whispers to which so many creatures refer - from Scarlet Briar (who states that she heard "whispers" from the forest) to the kodan suffering from The Hunger - are demons pressing upon vulnerable minds. Those who hear these whispers have been "chosen" to help treat tormented magic (which I believe is traumatised aether) that builds up within each sphere of elemental magic.
>
> >I’m wondering if this story may look at the **prehistory of Tyria**, the beginning of these elder dragon cycles as some sort of aftermath of an ancient **conflict** of long past, which resulted in the dragons needing to balance the all in the first place, possibly with the dragons vs these angels/demons entities.
>
> I think that a plausible conflict of long past is the Great Battle at The Gates of Heaven. We briefly learn about this monumental battle in GW1:Nightfall and, as I see it, the GBaTGoH is that conflict to which Kormir refers in PoF.
>
> I'm thinking that the Elder Dragons each treat a different elemental sphere of magic.
>
> * Primordus treats tormented fire magic (i.e. aether traumatised in the process of being torn from the fabric of reality as a result of spell-casting)
> * "Bubbles" treats traumatised water magic
> * Zaithan treats traumatised aether (i.e. aether torn from itself in the process of casting a spell)
> * Jormag treats tormented air magic
> * Kralkatorrik treats traumatised time magic
> * Mordremoth treats tormented earth magic
>
> This is presently my approach to understanding how each Elder Dragon processes magic
>
Maybe Tyria always had a balancing issue or perhaps a conflict with demons or darkness or some other extraterrestrial force led to the influx of magic, that required the need of Elder Dragons. I’m just thinking that the previous plot that they wanted for GW2 and possibly Utopia could have some relevance in future story lines or the events of the distant past.