Tyson.5160

> @"Cynder.2509" said:

> I don't know but to me Orr always looked quite interesting and I sometimes imagine how it must have been before it sank into the ocean.

> However as I've heard that there's an entirely huge and expanded lore that takes place even before gw1 it got me interested more and I had an idea.

> What if we've had a game where we get to experience events that were never ever seen before in any of the two games and that happened before?

> It would surely be interesting.

> How are your thought on this?

Perhaps a good setting for a single player game.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > Zhaitan had two weaknesses, firstly overreliance on specialised minions, and secondly Modremoth.

> >

> > A sword created by Sylvari, Modremoth's minions, and a Sylvari champion (Trahearne, and possibly the PC), were responsible for the cleansing of Orr. Even though they weren't under his control they were still born from his genetics and magics.

> >

> > Its specifically stated that breathing life into Orr was the dragon's downfall, and in LS3 Modremoth is said to bring life. This means that Modremoth possibly could've defeated Zhaitan in a direct conflict by simply returning life to Orr, even if it meant it was "dark and dangerous" life, because Zhaitan thrived on the land being dead, since Death is his domain and thus the source of his power.

> What Trahearne did was effectively remove Zhaitan's corruption from the Artesian Waters. Another way to look at it was that Trahearne "corrupted" it with Mordremoth's domain - this wouldn't necessarily make it Zhaitan's weakness, since what weakened him from this act was the removal of his corruption. In theory, any Elder Dragon could have corrupted the Artesian Waters and removed Zhaitan's corruption, or a Forgotten or Divine spell could have been used for similar effects. In any of these scenarios, Zhaitan would have been weakened simply because of the removal of his corruption over the ley line hub that was underneath The Artesian Waters.

>

> What weakened him wasn't Trahearne or Caladbolg, but him no longer being able to draw magic from the ley line hub beneath Orr. Just like Kralkatorrik was weakened by Aurene branding over and blocking the three ley lines that Kralkatorrik was feeding off of in The Descent, before we entered his body.

>

> > Sylvari were also immune to Zhaitan's corruption. Against Modremoth's minions, Zhaitan would've had no chance.

> Sylvari are immune to **all** dragon corruption. Risen and Branded are explicitly mentioned, but all dragon corruption is indicated. Though it isn't true immunity - what happens is that a sylvari dies when exposed to dragon corruption; which means it's more of a defense mechanism than actual immunity. Further, Season 2 and HoT promotions establish this "immunity" is caused by the "protection of the Pale Tree", and their connection to the Dream - it's established that Soundless are _not_ protected, thus could theoretically be corrupted (we, sadly, never see this happen - the closest we get is Scarlet and Aerin falling to Mordremoth far sooner than any other sylvari).

>

> > Each dragon has a unique, respective weakness, but some are suggested to have multiple weaknesses. Its not known if Modremoth would've been weak to Zhaitan in any way, but given Jormag/Primordus relationship, its likely.

> Based on the Unstable Abomination, Mordremoth was indeed weak to Zhaitan too.

What’s really odd is that Zhaitan was not able to make Risen out of Sylvari that died. You would think that once there spirit had left their body then Zhaitan could corrupt that corpse, since you would think that the Pale Tree could not offer its protection on something that’s deceased, unless the body was still somehow protected, which doesn’t make a lot of sense.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Just given by the text, it sounds like stone summit are no more other then this group that we are dealing with.

> >

> > “A messenger has returned from the peace agreements. The other Summit clans have agreed to reunify with Deldrimor.”

> >

> > Reunify with my understanding would mean no more Stone Summit.

> Yes, and when 99% of your group goes off and does something, and you don't, that doesn't really make you part of the group now does it?

>

> The Stone Summit don't exist, because they went back to the Deldrimor. There is just this group of former Stone Summit that got corrupted. So the original statement I replied to, the one that claimed the Stone Summit are now part of Primordus's arsenal is wrong, they aren't. The Stone Summit rejoined the Deldrimor, and turned into Stone Dwarves who fought Primordus's minions.

Well, according to the rest of the text, they believe they are Stone Summit and they keep the same names for when you fight them in game.

What I’m saying is this left over group of Stone Summit are now apart of Primordus’s army because simply they are. The rest got amalgamated back into the Deldrimor, so essentially the last true Stone Summit, ones that held true to the beliefs are now minions of Primordus and according to the text their are now mindless thralls, enslaved to the fire dragon.

“The other Summit clans have agreed to reunify with Deldrimor. We cannot submit to this weakness; we will never be their tools. It is better for us to forge our own path than to submit to ideologies that undermine the core of our being.”

“Their talk of our fate is an excuse for the corruption they have embraced. We will not be their soldiers. Our transformation does not make us "brethren." We have nothing in common other than our race. They are misguided. They do not represent us.

The Summit stands alone at the top.“

With the other Stone Summit clans back with the Deldrimor, that only leaves this clan left, which then leaves them ultimately being pawns to Primordus.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > I’m still holding to the belief that Primordus will be the last dragon to die. He’ll escape deeper into Tyria or flee into the mists or something. Given that Primordus has been kinda bobbling in and out of the story as a reminder that he is still a threat, as well as the big dragon antagonist that may or may not end up being Aurene’s opposite of the dragon of light, and transforming into the dragon of darkness.

> >

> > What I also notice is the lack of variation with destroyers. We have what the crab, troll, harpy, mega destroyer and wyvern destroyer models? We now have the inclusion of the stone summit, which beefs up Primordus arsenal a bit as well.

> >

> > All of the other dragons seem to have a wide array of minions, yet Primordus is lacking. Is this because eventually Primordus is going to have access to all the different dragon spheres of influence and this will be reflected in light blue/blue and purple destroyers as well, along with the death/vine and regular destroyer models?

> I also believe Primordus will be the last to die to do thematic parallels to GW1.

>

> Also, the Stone Summit aren't under Primordus's command, only that one group was. Most of the Stone Summit had made a treay with the Deldrimor, and followed them into turning to stone and fighting the destroyers.

Just given by the text, it sounds like stone summit are no more other then this group that we are dealing with.

“A messenger has returned from the peace agreements. The other Summit clans have agreed to reunify with Deldrimor.”

Reunify with my understanding would mean no more Stone Summit.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Taylan.2187" said:

> > I believe Jormag will be dead soon but don't know how DSD and especially Primordius fit into this story. The voice could simply be DSD, or its champion, which would make sense. (Last surviving DSD trying to complete the cycle of destruction?) But what's with Primordius then?? Finishing him off in some LW season would be super lame, even if there was time for a whole new LW season after Icebrood is over.

> I don't really see why killing Primordus in an LW season, or an expansion, really matters. LW seasons and expansions are pretty much the same thing, except expansions drop all at once, while LW seasons release over time. We would get the same amount of maps/achievements/skins/story either way.

>

> That being said, I think people are taking "End of Dragons" too literally. I doubt all of the Elder Dragons will be dead by the end of it. The expansion will probably deal more with us finding a way to safely end them without the world blowing up, removing the last barrier we have to killing them, rather then the actual KILLING of the last Elder Dragon. The "End of Dragons" referring more to the end the final power they lord over us.

I’m still holding to the belief that Primordus will be the last dragon to die. He’ll escape deeper into Tyria or flee into the mists or something. Given that Primordus has been kinda bobbling in and out of the story as a reminder that he is still a threat, as well as the big dragon antagonist that may or may not end up being Aurene’s opposite of the dragon of light, and transforming into the dragon of darkness.

What I also notice is the lack of variation with destroyers. We have what the crab, troll, harpy, mega destroyer and wyvern destroyer models? We now have the inclusion of the stone summit, which beefs up Primordus arsenal a bit as well.

All of the other dragons seem to have a wide array of minions, yet Primordus is lacking. Is this because eventually Primordus is going to have access to all the different dragon spheres of influence and this will be reflected in light blue/blue and purple destroyers as well, along with the death/vine and regular destroyer models?

> @"serialkicker.5274" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

>

> > In theory? Nothing. But **every** piece of evidence we have on the expansion so far is about Kuunavang and the Elder Dragon cycle. I don't think they'd advertise the first teaser about those two things when the expansion is more about the Six Gods.

> Are you intentionally misreading or what's the issue here? Who said anything about this expansion being more about gods? Actually, let me quote myself "And what stops this expansion being more about dragons than gods?". So clearly, I said why can't expansion be about dragons, but still have gods?

> > And I don't think anyone's arguing whether or not any continuation of the Six Gods' plot will be as big as the Elder Dragon plot has been for GW2, but that's a completely different argument of Lyssa (or the gods in general) having involvement in End of Dragons.

> I know no one is arguing that. I'm saying, it doesn't have to be to that extent in order for them to "appear" in expansion. Lyssa doesn't even have to physically appear in story or she doesn't need to be "big" part of it in a sense that she needs a lot of screen time or that she often interacts with us. She could be a "background" character that we don't even ever see or interact with her, but she could still have a big impact on the story. And guess what, expansion could still be largely about dragons. Not sure what is hard to understand here.

> > Also, while the four crystal dragons had cameos in Path of Fire, the expansion was barely about any of them. Palawa Joko had a bigger impact on Path of Fire than Glint and Vlast _combined_. If you're arguing that the gods will have that level of relation, then the expansion won't be about Lyssa going on a crusade to end the Elder Dragon threat as Tyson.5160 suggested which I responded to with that "Why bring in the gods in an expansion about dragons, and titled about dragons?" question that you responded to with "why not" that sparked this argument.

> Well, funny you mention that. Did you see Joko in Path of Fire teaser? Or Glint? Aurene? Kralkatorik? Well that's strange. Why the hell were they in story?

> Besides you still didn't answer the question. Well, you tried with "Path of Fire had a buildup with Balthazar, and it was more about gods than dragons - dragons were ultimately just a mcguffin in that plot, more than characters.". Which obviously doesn't really answer the question. Not every character needs a build up and it certainly doesn't prevent it from showing up at any point in the story. Something being the focus in story also doesn't prevent from others from showing up and being part of the story. I don't know what kind of logic that is, but it makes no sense. And then you proceed to dismiss the four dragon appearing in PoF as it was barely anything. As if they didn't play important roles there. Just because it wasn't focus on them, doesn't mean they were in expansion and they didn't contribute to story. And same could happen with Lyssa. Sure, I would prefer for her to have more screen time and interaction with us, than maybe four dragon did, but that doesn't make your argument any less nonsensical.

> > We're not talking about the level of involvement the crystal dragon family had in Path of Fire, we're talking about _Balthazar's_ level of involvement in Path of Fire. And that's not something you pull out of you kitten while showcasing something completely different.

> Oh, we aren't. Why is that so? Because it wrecks your argument? Why can't Lyssa in this expansion have the level of involvement that four dragons did in PoF and still expansion being more focused on dragons, as PoF was on Balthazar? It's a simple question.

>

> > The story can end while people still play it - take a look at Guild Wars 1, and Eye of the North **was** an expansion released with an "End of GW1 story" production, because in the later stages of EotN's production period we were being told about GW2. And EotN sales were fine, GW1 playerbase was fine, there was no doomsday.

> I don't know how that relates to anything I said. Yes, story can end anytime and anywhere. What's your point? That means gods can't be part of this expansion?

> > So you're wrong on this - what would be bad for sales would be saying that the servers were going to shut down shortly after the expansion, not that there'd be no new story content.

> I don't think you even believe your own words here. You think everyone would keep playing the game if developers themselves said "we are pretty much done with it after this expansion"? A lot of people lose will to play once they know that's basically it and they can't progress further or hope for new content, new areas to explore, new enemies to beat, new group content to explore, new secrets and challenges to find, etc.. Just look at endless topics that we had about game going into maintenance mode and people panicking. Or look at any other game when they entered the maintenance mode and how their population managed.

>

> > Technically speaking, no expansion was released with raids or legendaries. They all came in subsequent updates and merely required the previous (or any) expansion.

>

> And we know how "happy" people were about that.

Not to put words in Konig’s mouth, (and please correct me if I’m way out to lunch here) but I don’t think he saying that Lyssa won’t have any involvement because at this time, who knows what’s going to happen, I think what he’s stating and for the most part, generally states with most of his posts, is that he doesn’t see conclusive evidence that such a thing will happen based on what we have been provided currently.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Yes and I’m still waiting for an explanation to an old mystery of what happened to Evennia too... which I’m pretty sure still hasn’t been answered, though I recall there being a possible hint in S3 that she was hung by Adelbern.

>

> More than just a hint, it was an outright statement by Caudecus of Evennia's fate, and using this fact as an argument for why the Salma line of kings, including Jennah, were bad rulers.

>

> Of course there's the chance Caudecus was lying, but a) anyone of Tyria could look Evennia's fate in a history book, and b) propaganda is best done when using a true fact to back up a false argument. And Caudecus is a good enough politician and manipulator to know both of those aspects of propaganda.

I was expecting something a bit more concrete, however given how the Zinn secret’s employer was Joko and advised off the cuff, I’m not overly surprised...

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"serialkicker.5274" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > Why bring in the gods in an expansion about dragons, and titled about dragons?

> > Why not? I don't see why that couldn't be the case. Path of fire had gods and dragons. If it fits the story, why not? Plus, this could possibly be last expansion.

>

> Path of Fire had a buildup with Balthazar, and it was more about gods than dragons - dragons were ultimately just a mcguffin in that plot, more than characters.

>

> And this isn't the end of GW2's story - ANet devs already confirmed that. So not very likely to be the last expansion unless they go full on living world seasons afterwards (which doesn't sit well with the playerbase).

>

> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > * The centaurs have been defeated, and pushed out of Kryta

> > * The Nightmare court has had all of its leadership destroyed, and its numbers decimated

>

> These two points are false, actually. The centaurs were shown in Season 3 and IBS trailer to still be a force, and you don't end a war just by wiping out a handful of camps and killing a leader - not when the war is literally 1,000 years old. And the ending of Dragon's Stand shows that the Nightmare Court still has leadership and forces (and though it got cut out, there were plans to show even more of this in HoT).

>

> There's also several points you don't bring up that are unfinished, such as all loose asura plot ends, that, currently, have zero indication of being included in either the remaining Icebrood Saga or End of Dragons content:

> * The six lost citadel cities of the asura (particularly Quora Sum, arguably excluding Central Transfer Chamber)

> * Kuda and the Inquest continuing Kudu's research

> * The fate of Menzies

> * Desmina's rather ominous plans for the Underworld

> * The situation of the Mists and afterlives after Kralkatorrik's damage no doubt causing some sort of repercussion (you don't make holes in space-time reality without major consequences)

> * The mystery of Lyssa surrounding Path of Fire

> * Visiting the largos Tethyos Houses (could be tied to DSD, but not likely tied to Cantha)

> * The potential plot of the ancient god-killers brought up in the Complete Art of Guild Wars

> * The potential plots of exploring distant lands like Sunrise Crest, Forsaken Cliffs, Not Real, and the Sunken Isles; of these, the Sunrise Crest and Sunken Isles are particularly interesting because the Season 2 map showed trade routes to it from the Battle Isles.

>

> Knowing you, you'll find some lengthy inane argument for why each and every one of those things are "small and unimportant" or are "wrong in every way" as you usually do when responding to my posts. But these are _easily_ lengthy plots to go into, either as just an episodic focus or a full narrative.

>

> Fact is, there's an entire world that got set up in Season 2 for exploration. Even if the Central Tyria plots were (mostly) cleaned up, there's still plenty of GW2 to go on with. And there's nothing preventing ANet from creating brand new plot hooks, like they did throughout the entirety of Season 1 - nothing in Season 1 was foreshadowed in prior content, except Mordremoth's existence, and he played a very, very minor role in the plot. Nor does this even cover the minor things that players have wanted for ages like visiting Wizard's Tower, Janthir, and the eastern charr lands.

Yes and I’m still waiting for an explanation to an old mystery of what happened to Evennia too... which I’m pretty sure still hasn’t been answered, though I recall there being a possible hint in S3 that she was hung by Adelbern.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Bast.7253" said:

> > The devs have gone out of their way to say that they have plenty of story left to tell. So, I see no reason as to why there wouldn't be any room for more story/another expansion. Especially dealing with the gods.

> >

> > After all, what we see on the in-game map is a tiny portion of the entire planet according to the Globe of Whispers. If it's profitable, they'll come up with something.

> The said EoD isn't the end of GW2's narrative, and that they have stories for after that.

>

> At the rate the game moves, we are easily looking at two more living world seasons after EoD, before we finish the dragon plot. Which, if they are anything like IBS, is another 4 more years of narratives after IBS/EoD. At the rate its going, IBS still has a year left in it. Giving us 5 more years of narratives, and the game being 13 years old by the time we are done with this.

>

> Narratively, the game has wrapped up, or is working wrapping up, pretty much every major plot its introduced

>

> Humanity(Kryta)

> * The centaurs have been defeated, and pushed out of Kryta

> * The bandits leaders have been killed

> * The White Mantle has been rooted out, and competently destroyed

>

> Sylvari

> * The mystery behind their origin and immunity to dragon corruption has been discovered

> * The Pale Tree has been put on the path to recovery

> * The Nightmare court has had all of its leadership destroyed, and its numbers decimated

>

> Charr

> * Kralkatorrik is dead, and the branded are being moped up

> * Bangar has been outed, and the Charr civil war is over

> * The Flame Legion has been brought back into Charr society under the leadership of Efram

> * The Charr are now on a path to fix many of the massive social problems that have plagued them for centuries

>

> Norn

> * Braham has cracked the tooth, setting into motion the prophecy

> * We have discovered what happened to the lost Spirits of the Wild, including the truth behind Owl

> * We learned the truth behind Asgeir's fight with Jormag

> * Jahvi was able to get revenge on Drakkar for what it did to her family

>

> Humanity(Elona)

> * Palawa Joko is dead, and his empire collapsed

> * The Sunspear Order has been reformed

> * The various groups in Elona have formed a coalition government to move Elona into a post-Joko future together.

>

>

> Like, there is the Cantha stuff(EoD and its associated living world), and the Asura stuff(Primordus season after EoD and its LW), and then GW2 will be pretty much out of the major narrative hooks that have permeated the game since the beginning. There is a few other things like the Wizard Tower(a raid), getting rid of the Ghosts of Ascalon, and what happened the Mylack, but those are things that aren't full narratives themselves, those are plot points inside actual narratives(like having us find Malyck and his tree in the northern Maguuma Wastes after we go up there because Primordus does something). And I would be legit surprised if the god plot doesn't get woven into, and wrapped up, alongside the dragon plot given that the gods left because of the dragons, and the two that were still around were only so because of the dragons.

I would like to see some of these places like Sunrise Crest show up in game as their appears to be trades routes going to it. Whether that is an opportunity for post dragon story or still be connected, it’s hard to tell, but I would still like to see what is over on that other continent.

> @"Funky.4861" said:

> I think the Olmakhan have it right.

And perhaps seeing the Olmakhan and their society rubbed off on Rytlock, since we don’t hear much about his kids until after they come into the story.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Bast.7253" said:

> > So far I guess Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and Kralk were all confirmed male?

> >

> > Primordus is... male as well right? Jormag is non-binary.

> Kralkatorrik is the only confirmed gendered Elder Dragon. And this is (almost?) exclusively by Glint, Vlast, and Aurene and those who got it from them (e.g., the Commander and Dragon's Watch).

>

> Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Primordus - they're usually "it" more than "he" or "she", and in the rare cases of a "he" gets used, it's more in line with how pre-social movement English users commonly used male pronouns to denote a figure of unknown or unclear gender. Jormag is technically the only exception, being viewed as male by Sons of Svanir and by extension, most norn - non-norn usually used "it" though, until Season 5 where almost everyone (except Sons of Svanir - that means, including non-Sons of Svanir norn) would use they (which has become increasingly common as the pronoun of choice for unknown/unclear/otherwise ambiguous gender). Mordremoth has a male voice actor, however, and an artificially deepened voice. So people often associate it as male.

>

> But technically, **every** Elder Dragon and their scions are mono-gendered (and thus by definition, non-binary), or as it was put back in 2010: genderless (more specifically, that they "do not have genders as Tyrians know them"). Any use of male or female pronouns tend to be for association with, or comprehension by, mortals. Which is why it's the dragons that interact most with mortals that have pronoun associations made - the crystal family, Jormag, and loosely, Mordremoth.

>

> IIRC, 90% of referencing Zhaitan and Mordremoth is as "the [jungle] dragon", rather than "he" or "it". Having just briefly looked through Hearts and Minds (HoT final instance), Mordremoth is only called "it", never he/him/his. Personally, given Zhaitan's roar is very high pitched, I like to believe that if it had a voice, it'd have had a female VA (or a higher-pitched male VA like our mysterious voice may be).

I’ve always hoped for a a fractal where you get to play as a Risen and would hear Zhaitan’s voice as well as potentially show Zhaitan again. Would be a good way of opening up Zhaitan posthumous.

> @"radda.8920" said:

> > @"Galmac.4680" said:

> > Four more episodes of this? Oh my.. I'll take a deep breath and go.

>

> Yes this saga is really really bad except the prologue. Boring maps, 0 challenge, bad story, uninteresting environment..

> I can't wait to go to cantha and finish with this kitten

>

>

Really? I thoroughly enjoyed these zones from the Far Shiverpeaks. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > Though the best thing I can guess if Anet decides to finally explain who and what Kanaxai is will either be the Cantha Expansion Raid or actually make Kanaxai or atleast lore about him part of Cantha's Main storyline.

> I would love to see Kanaxai and Urgoz reborn as raids in GW2, even though I have never touched raids, and never will. Would be a nice callback to how they were in GW1.

It would definitely be an area that I think raids should go. It was an elite mission after all. If Anet decided this our last two raids or whatever, then I’m satisfied with that.

> @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> Well if some how the hypothesis that Kanaxai maybe a ancient DSD minion, then DSD maybe related to Water and Nightmares.

>

> The thing about the Deep part of the ocean is that it is a common ideal place for horror stories to hide being of nightmare due to how dark and unknown the deep part of the oceans are.

Fear would be a good secondary domain for the DSD though as described by the dark and murky depths of the ocean.

Though I’m curious of the DSD minions and their name.

One thing I did notice when reading the magazine article before IBS was released was that they described Aurene as the dragon of light. If hypothetically Primordus is the last dragon and acquired varying pieces of magic domain from each Elder Dragon, will he become the Dragon of Darkness.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> Here is this weeks updates for the Bangar achievement.

>

> Basically, Rytlock questions how Bangar could let what happened with Ryland happen, and says he should have gone back to the homelands a long time ago, and Bangar says Rytlock has forgotten what it means to be Charr.

> 

> 

> 

I really enjoy these little snippets of content, lore and dialogue every few weeks. I hope they keep these things up. Reminds me of the little mini content patches between releases in Season 3.

I’m wondering if the last vision is what sends us to Cantha...

> @"Bast.7253" said:

> There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of consistency with the different domains, but we have so far:

>

> Primordus - Fire and Conflagration

> Jormag - Ice and Persuasion

> Zhaitan - Death and Shadow

> Kralk - Crystal and Fury

> Mordremoth - Plant and Mind

> DSD - presumably Water and something else.

>

> Conflagration seems as though it could mean fire or conflict/war. It would be a little odd to have Fire twice.

>

> Without seeing a pattern it's hard to speculate as to why the domains would have been devised this way. Am I missing a correlation here?

> Conflagration, Persuasion, Shadow, Fury, Mind. Seems odd that Jormag would have domain over persuasion which seems oddly specific compared to the rest.

>

> I wonder what the intention of this design was in terms of the natural cycle of life on Tyria.

>

> Also thinking in terms of opposites and weaknesses, why Primordus and Jormag? Is it solely fire versus ice? Is it conflict versus persuasion?

>

> Was just trying to think of what the DSD could be but some of these just seem a little too random and like there isn't much of a point in trying to find a pattern.

>

I suspect Primordus secondary domain of conflagration is supposed to be destruction.

Jormag’s Persuasion domain is pretty self explanatory.

I had a theory with some support from in game mobs that Zhaitan’s Shadow domain is how he suppressed the divine energy of the gods in Orr.

Kralkatorrik’s Fury domain is a tough one. Not sure if this suppose to be angry rage. A number of his skills have to do with anger or ire, as well as several skills that have fury in it including Aurene’s skills and Fury of the Brand. Hard to determine, but could be as simple as anger.

Mordremoth Mind domain is much like Jormag’s pretty self explanatory.

Unknown about DSD, though I like the fear aspect.

The secondary domains appear to be for the most part meta physical or intangible, except maybe the Shadow domain and perhaps conflagration. That being said perhaps there are some simple connections between these domain such as Shadow and Conflagration are somewhat physical. Mind and Persuasion are mental and if the DSD does end up with fear, Fury and Fear would be emotional.

> @"Cronospere.8143" said:

> > @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > If they die, they will just be replaced by another dragon. What is the point? Or maybe aurene can conveniently be the only dragon that's left and we can just wait till it gets tired of being in a role it didn't choose for itself and decides to blow up the planet.

>

> She would be floated with magic she cant handle.. so that would be a disaster indeed..

That might be what happens which then leads us on a quest of finding replacements.

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > > @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > >The Voice, which is definitely male

> > Most people I've seen have said its a female voice, and it sounds exactly like a female voice to me. It would have to be a very effeminate man for the voice to belong to one IMO.

>

> It is without question a female voice. It’s not even close to being confused with a males voice imo

I agree, it’s a female voice

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > Not to mention things like the Hall of Chains raid, and the appearance of fragments of several god realms, being added since Path of fire, continuing the plot of the gods without having to show us them directly.

> Those are hardly continuation of the gods' plots. Especially so for Dragonfall.

>

> And also rather hypocritical of you, since that has weaker ties of "continuing plot" than the Renegades' involvement with Bangar and Icebrood Saga, which you vehemently denied there being a continued plot of Renegades previously.

>

> > From Kormir herself, which honestly means nothing as any of the gods could have left, and then secretly came back while keeping a low profile. That's the most non-evidence possible, and a classic trope.

> If you trust Kormir's statements - as you seem to - then she is fully aware of the ongoings of the actions of Tyria aside from using illusion magic. Which would deny Dwayna as coming back.

>

> > > Technically speaking, the Icebrood Saga trailer shows that the human/centaur war is **not** over. They lost their leader, but Season 3 showed that Harathi and Modniir were still warring, and the trailer shows the centaurs are still enslaving.

> > Konig, do you understand what war is? I am going to guess not, because the fact that centaurs are still enslaving humans, or still have enslaved humans from before, has literally absolutely to do with the human/centaur war, and neither does the centaur's presence in the northern region of Lake Doric, which is around the border between Kryta and centaur lands anyways. War is a very specific kind of conflict between two groups, and you can still have conflict between said two groups after the war is over, without being in another war. The human/Charr war is long over, but there are still some Charr who attack humans, doesn't mean the humans and Charr are at war. Not all conflict between two groups is a war. Even with the Human/centaur war being over there's still going to be centaur bands attacking Kryta, and centaur's aren't going to just release all of the humans they had enslaved. Just like they were doing that BEFORE the human/centaur war started.

>

> I'm aware of what a war is, I'm also aware that simply assassinating the leader does not end wars. There is nothing to indicate that the Centaur War has ended, especially since it has waged on since 300 AE with ebbs and flows in activity since then.

>

> > >@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > >Then there's also the matter that everything that makes us doubt Lyssa ultimately comes from a) Balthazar robbing reliquaries and b) Kormir. And A is the opposite of incriminating despite common argument otherwise in this community.

> > and c) Balthazar cursed the names of all the gods, except Lyssa, as he died, and Anet has confirmed there is a reason for that. Which would tie back into point a, under the assumption Lyssa told him about it and suggested he use it, or something similar in terms of assistance. You choosing to intentionally ignore the biggest piece of evidence behind the theory doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor does it erase the dev's comments about it.

> >

> > You do not have the right to attempt to rewrite history, stop trying to do so constantly.

>

> I lump that into point A, actually. I wasn't ignoring it, nor denying it, and I knew well that ANet confirmed there's a reason for such. But that does not incriminate Lyssa in of itself. If Kormir's lying - she _is_ the goddess of secrets after all - then that line could have any number of meanings. Even if she wasn't lying, Balthazar not cursing Lyssa could still have any number of reasons.

>

> I am not attempting to rewrite history. I'm just pointing out the fact that you have to make assumptions like "Lyssa told him about it and suggested he use it, or something similar in terms of assistance" for it to have a reason for being said (or rather, not said).

>

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Well according to Kormir in PoF, the gods can be fooled by Lyssa’s illusions, so its entirely possible that she stayed behind in hiding in a human form in Cantha which given the scriptures was a common tactic that Lyssa used. Perhaps Lyssa also wanted to deal with the dragons like Balthazar, however had different methods of doing such.

> >

> > Lyssa is also an enigma too because of duality, where she could have many contradictions as well as illusions on her side. Given how Anet “bread crumbed” Balthazar with very subtle hints, this purple mist could be what they are doing for Lyssa.

>

> Why Cantha, when everything going on has been happening in Central Tyria?

>

> Why bring in the gods in an expansion about dragons, and titled about dragons?

>

> **All** arguments I see about Lyssa being involved is more out of want, than legitimate reasons for it to happen. And **_every single time_** such has happened, the theory proves false.

>

> About the purple mist, I am 90% sure that if it is representing anything, it's representing [Miasma](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Miasma), which was a purple mist from GW1. Why would it still be there? Because _the entire trailer shows Cantha in the state of GW1_. This is most evident in the Jade Sea, which is fully solid in the trailer, despite all lore stating it had begun to thaw 250 years ago.

To be fair though the story can shift drastically in a single episode. When we were playing Season 3 how many figured we would be going to the Crystal Desert after Balthazar.

Yeah, I wouldn’t mind Lyssa being in the expansion, mainly because I want that window closed from what was open in Season 3 and PoF.

Would also explain the voice because that seems to fit as well.

> @"Bast.7253" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"Bast.7253" said:

> > > > Lyssa just doesn't make any sense. I think people are reading too much into the purple mist. I get that she's been hinted at for quite awhile now, but I feel like they're setting that up for after this expansion. With the revised Utopia lore and this potentially revising the cycle, it may make room for the gods to reenter the picture as a whole. Lyssa potentially being the introductory character.

> > > Definitely agree there, on every bit of it.

> > >

> > > I'm thinking the second character is going to be some other dragon scion. The dialogue definitely implies, to me, to be two not-yet-but-could-be-elder lesser dragons talking.

> > >

> > > I'm still not convinced that "non-dragons can take the place of Elder Dragons" though. The Pale Tree is possible, given it's a dragon champion. But Spirits of the Wild? I'm doubtful they could take the burden either singularly or collectively.

> > >

> > > > Maybe even something entirely new that we discover in Cantha, especially given all the weirdness that was going on in Echovald with the Wardens and whatever magic they were using.

> > >

> > > The wardens are tied to Urgoz who was a forest spirit, a nature spirit of the Echovald Forest - this puts Urgoz (and Zhu Hanuku, a sea spirit) in similar - if not the same - category as the Spirits of the Wild and Nulfastu.

> > >

> > > > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > > > I doubt the gods as a whole are going to renter the picture. Balthazar is dead, and we have direct confirmation that Kormir, Grenth, and Melandru, have left, and have abandoned their followers and realms, with zero suggestion there is anything else at play for them. That just leaves Lyssa and Dwayna, and we know Lyssa is up to something.

> > > ANet did specifically state that the gods' plot isn't over in GW2 - specifically gods, plural - and this was after Path of Fire.

> > >

> > > Keep in mind, that the gods left because of the Elder Dragons. No more Elder Dragon threat, no more reason for the gods to go looking for a world without Elder Dragons to - supposedly - bring Tyrians to.

> > >

> > > Also, we got direct confirmation that Kormir was the _last_ god to leave Tyria. So Lyssa and Dwayna left a long time ago.

> > >

> > > And we do not _know_ Lyssa is up to something. People _suspect_ Lyssa is.

> > >

> > > > All the other major and minor plot points have really been done at this point.

> > > > * The human/centaur was is over, with a decisive win for humanity.

> > > Technically speaking, the Icebrood Saga trailer shows that the human/centaur war is **not** over. They lost their leader, but Season 3 showed that Harathi and Modniir were still warring, and the trailer shows the centaurs are still enslaving.

> > >

> > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > > Before jumping to too many conclusions regarding Lyssa, it is worth noting that in Kormir's journal, she mentions that Lyssa was mocking Kormir for staying behind. Which implies that, whatever Lyssa's past thoughts might have been in Arah, she's now in favour of leaving. (Keeping in mind that it was also Lyssa that was the spokesperson for the "this world is yours now" speech near the end of Nightfall). It's possible that events since the gods were in Arah (particularly the destruction that happened during the war with Abaddon) has caused her to shift perspective.

> > > >

> > > > That said, it's also possible, particularly given that it's _Lyssa,_ that her mockery of Kormir was intended to disguise her actual feelings on the matter, and possibly to get Kormir out of the way so she could proceed with her own plans. Still, it is worth noting that there are inconsistencies with the narrative that Lyssa still holds the views she did over a thousand years ago.

> > >

> > > Then there's also the matter that everything that makes us doubt Lyssa ultimately comes from a) Balthazar robbing reliquaries and b) Kormir. And A is the opposite of incriminating despite common argument otherwise in this community.

> >

> > Well according to Kormir in PoF, the gods can be fooled by Lyssa’s illusions, so its entirely possible that she stayed behind in hiding in a human form in Cantha which given the scriptures was a common tactic that Lyssa used. Perhaps Lyssa also wanted to deal with the dragons like Balthazar, however had different methods of doing such.

> >

> > Lyssa is also an enigma too because of duality, where she could have many contradictions as well as illusions on her side. Given how Anet “bread crumbed” Balthazar with very subtle hints, this purple mist could be what they are doing for Lyssa.

>

> Maybe, but I feel like the breadcrumb of a vague buff on an npc's bar is a little different than littering an entire teaser with purple. :lol:

>

> I guess the charred marks of the white mantle at the bloodstone's pedestal could count too.

>

> But yeah, there are other things in the teaser that could hint to Lyssa, like the illuion-looking humanoids running (but I think that's just a neat art technique) and the general duality of the logo looking like a dragon and a reflection of the dragon (though more likely two different dragons on opposing sides.)

>

> I just think it's unlikely unless she's a character that is going to either introduce us to Cantha somehow or be introduced slowly as a character leading into the next season while we're in Cantha. In either case I'm not sure the purple mist would really be appropriate as whatever it is tends to be pretty front and center.

>

> I'm also leaning more towards this being a vision that we witness through Aurene at the scrying pool, given the introduction being these glimmering multi-colored lights on the sides as we fly through the city. Reminds me of Aurene doing her light speed flight like she did in Grothmar during the opening ceremony before branding the devourer.

> If that's the case, it could be the long distant past, or the past soon after the defeat of Shiro after they were "building their new lives." Personally I don't think the building new lives part is in reference to the Jade Wind or the Affliction because neither were really sentient things that "sought" to destroy them, so much as after effects of someone else that was manipulated.

>

> But anyway, who knows. There's certainly no shortage of possibilities.

If you look back at the flashpoint trailer it’s also littered with fire, which could represent Primordus, however it never really stated where we would be going in the trailer and was focussed on who Lazarus really was. Lazarus used fire and spoke of divine light as well as the abilities he used. They also snuck in a Balthazar shield in one of the cutscenes.

I just find it strange to have purple mist in the trailer at all, since it’s clearly deliberate as well as an introduction to a “new” character.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Bast.7253" said:

> > Lyssa just doesn't make any sense. I think people are reading too much into the purple mist. I get that she's been hinted at for quite awhile now, but I feel like they're setting that up for after this expansion. With the revised Utopia lore and this potentially revising the cycle, it may make room for the gods to reenter the picture as a whole. Lyssa potentially being the introductory character.

> Definitely agree there, on every bit of it.

>

> I'm thinking the second character is going to be some other dragon scion. The dialogue definitely implies, to me, to be two not-yet-but-could-be-elder lesser dragons talking.

>

> I'm still not convinced that "non-dragons can take the place of Elder Dragons" though. The Pale Tree is possible, given it's a dragon champion. But Spirits of the Wild? I'm doubtful they could take the burden either singularly or collectively.

>

> > Maybe even something entirely new that we discover in Cantha, especially given all the weirdness that was going on in Echovald with the Wardens and whatever magic they were using.

>

> The wardens are tied to Urgoz who was a forest spirit, a nature spirit of the Echovald Forest - this puts Urgoz (and Zhu Hanuku, a sea spirit) in similar - if not the same - category as the Spirits of the Wild and Nulfastu.

>

> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > I doubt the gods as a whole are going to renter the picture. Balthazar is dead, and we have direct confirmation that Kormir, Grenth, and Melandru, have left, and have abandoned their followers and realms, with zero suggestion there is anything else at play for them. That just leaves Lyssa and Dwayna, and we know Lyssa is up to something.

> ANet did specifically state that the gods' plot isn't over in GW2 - specifically gods, plural - and this was after Path of Fire.

>

> Keep in mind, that the gods left because of the Elder Dragons. No more Elder Dragon threat, no more reason for the gods to go looking for a world without Elder Dragons to - supposedly - bring Tyrians to.

>

> Also, we got direct confirmation that Kormir was the _last_ god to leave Tyria. So Lyssa and Dwayna left a long time ago.

>

> And we do not _know_ Lyssa is up to something. People _suspect_ Lyssa is.

>

> > All the other major and minor plot points have really been done at this point.

> > * The human/centaur was is over, with a decisive win for humanity.

> Technically speaking, the Icebrood Saga trailer shows that the human/centaur war is **not** over. They lost their leader, but Season 3 showed that Harathi and Modniir were still warring, and the trailer shows the centaurs are still enslaving.

>

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > Before jumping to too many conclusions regarding Lyssa, it is worth noting that in Kormir's journal, she mentions that Lyssa was mocking Kormir for staying behind. Which implies that, whatever Lyssa's past thoughts might have been in Arah, she's now in favour of leaving. (Keeping in mind that it was also Lyssa that was the spokesperson for the "this world is yours now" speech near the end of Nightfall). It's possible that events since the gods were in Arah (particularly the destruction that happened during the war with Abaddon) has caused her to shift perspective.

> >

> > That said, it's also possible, particularly given that it's _Lyssa,_ that her mockery of Kormir was intended to disguise her actual feelings on the matter, and possibly to get Kormir out of the way so she could proceed with her own plans. Still, it is worth noting that there are inconsistencies with the narrative that Lyssa still holds the views she did over a thousand years ago.

>

> Then there's also the matter that everything that makes us doubt Lyssa ultimately comes from a) Balthazar robbing reliquaries and b) Kormir. And A is the opposite of incriminating despite common argument otherwise in this community.

Well according to Kormir in PoF, the gods can be fooled by Lyssa’s illusions, so its entirely possible that she stayed behind in hiding in a human form in Cantha which given the scriptures was a common tactic that Lyssa used. Perhaps Lyssa also wanted to deal with the dragons like Balthazar, however had different methods of doing such.

Lyssa is also an enigma too because of duality, where she could have many contradictions as well as illusions on her side. Given how Anet “bread crumbed” Balthazar with very subtle hints, this purple mist could be what they are doing for Lyssa.

> @"radda.8920" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"radda.8920" said:

> > > probably Far Shiverpeaks again with Olafstead /Gunnar's Hold to explore

> > >

> > > this is the last part of guild wars eyes of the north that we haven't explored yet

> > > so a new map slightly south of bjora marches

> > >

> > > For the last map with episode 7/8, i hope we will go back to fire islands (abbadon mouth with the bloodstone).

> >

> > They did have destroyers in Sacnoth Valley in GW1, that could also be a map as well.

>

> Before the release of drizzlewood coast, they said : they were taking a break with the snowy environments

> so it's almost certain that the next map will be in the Shiverpeak Mountains

If we are strictly talking the EOTN maps then we only have a few areas left in the Charr Homelands and the Far Shiverpeaks. Unless they pull a dragonfall map which is in an unpredictable location.

> @"radda.8920" said:

> probably Far Shiverpeaks again with Olafstead /Gunnar's Hold to explore

>

> this is the last part of guild wars eyes of the north that we haven't explored yet

> so a new map slightly south of bjora marches

>

> For the last map with episode 7/8, i hope we will go back to fire islands (abbadon mouth with the bloodstone).

They did have destroyers in Sacnoth Valley in GW1, that could also be a map as well.