BlackTruth.6813
-
Posts
316 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Events
Articles
Gallery
Posts posted by BlackTruth.6813
-
-
> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > ANET CAN do something right for once, I am prepared for things like Reckless dodge, bull's charge, and rampage NERFED TO BALANCE. There is moderation that can be accomplished.
>
>
> I love how FH baseline is THE answer ... as long as all this other stuff gets nerfed too.
>
> If Anet has to make ALL these kinds of changes to make FH baseline ... then seems to me that it's actually easier to just buff the non-Discipline lines after all, preserving meaningful choices in Discipline at the same time.
>
Okay, give me an example, lets be productive for once. How do you make Arms attractive then?
-
> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> >
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > > > > And the thread got merged, do you know why? EVEN ANET KNOWS pointing out builds that might be aids is RELEVANT TO THE THREAD.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cut it out with your pathetic "burden of proof" kitten, just admit that you cannot find real arguments.
> > > > >
> > > > > Might want to check that mirror you were just talking into. What you just said applies beautifully to both sides. Unfortunately burden of proof always lies with the side which demands change. I'm fine with settling on ignoring this issue since I know Arenanet is not going to roll out baseline Fast Hands.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've tried to explain to people why, I don't care if anyone listens. Smart warrior players will give useful feedback, not so smart players will stick to their pipe dreams and complain years in when the change they want hasn't been implemented or leave the game. I'm fine with any of the outcome
> > > >
> > > > And you still haven't found a "real alternative" other than "make Warrior be able to function without baseline fast hands" and not back it up with something specific.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't need to find an alternative (and it seems no one i this thread on either side tries to find one too). I don't see base line Fast Hands as a solution. I see a far to strong Discipline tree which needs rework though.
> > >
> > > On the contrary, I think base line Fast Hands and the utility it brings would cause severe nerfs to warrior on many levels. Something most people are willfully ignoring here.
> > >
> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > > You realize that other classes work without Fast Hands because they have instant casts, pets, phantasms, and burst mitigation for team mates right? Warrior doesn't need any of that, OTHER CLASSES can have it for an identity. Warrior's identity is fine as is (A class that relies on stow weapon or weapon swap fake-outs for a high skill cap, no instant cast, no pets, etc [just being an honest class with no pet or instant cast garbage])
> > > >
> > >
> > > Every single class would benefit from Fast Hands, thiefs and revenant even more than warriors. So no, this is again wild speculation and no argument on the warriors side.
> > >
> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > > We didn't "simply demand it" we SUGGESTED it before ANET does their own thing. And when ANET does their own thing that no one asked for? That's a lot worse.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have no problem with suggestions. I do have a problem with this religious zealous near fanatical defense of a suggestion without considering that focusing on other approaches would be far more productive and more likely than this change.
> > >
> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > > Literally, you're almost tolerable but you can't think of a specific idea that would make your premise work. You would legit have to give Warrior instant cast or some stupid kitten. And you at least agreed to me that your route could be A LOT MORE EVIL, but I want to hear a "specific alternative" that isn't broken or useless because MAYBE, just MAYBE you are truly better than any of the other guys who counter-argued against it but failed.
> > >
> > > I agreed that any change could be far worse. I also said that changing 1 of 9 classes on a fundamental level would cause even greater issues. Look at how Mirage and its unique dodge causes problems (and it;s an elite specialization). That's the type of change you are in for balance wise. I seriously doubt Arenanet is even going to go remotely in that direction, at most with an elite specialization and even that is a very big IF.
> >
> > 1.) YOU CANNOT nerf discipline right now.
>
> You know what is funny ... I've seen Anet nerf things that cannot be nerfed right now LOTS of times. So maybe you don't understand how they function. Maybe you shouldn't impose your own ideas of how the game works onto the people that develop it. Absolutely nothing stops Anet from nerfing anything they want, especially if people are going to argue that Discipline is SO good that it degrades the choice of other traitlines.
>
>
There is a small chance, (maybe it's good right now after the mass layoffs) that ANET will do something right. We can mourn AFTER they do something stupid.
-
Also people, ANET WILL inevitable update and change the game. Nothing wrong about suggesting something that isn't stupidly broken OP like "instant cast" or "z-axis teleport" as they inventiably change the gam,e
Don't go around censoring people who advocated for something that is potentially legitimate just yet.
> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:
> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > > 2.) Severe nerfs? Are you.. CHANGING STORIES? I THOUGHT IT WAS POWERCREEP?
> > >
> > > From what I understand, he's saying that making FH as a class passive would inevitably bring nerfs with that change, it's not him "changing stories", it's your inability to read and connect the facts, because you are too occupied with ridiculing him.
> >
> > Sure, I have already said that Reckless dodge and Bull's charge will possibly get nerfed, and that is fine. It will be realistically in a big patch anyways (along with other class nerfs), and dodge spamming while attacking has ALWAYS been stupid and not very Warrior like. I'm just saying there is a hypothetical way that ANET can do it the right way and that these "severe nerfs" can actually push more build variety.
> >
> > So I ask you again, what **greater evil is going to happen?**
> >
> > Does it give Warrior instant cast? Does it give Warrior the ability to ignore protection?
>
> It's not about what greater evil is going to happen. It's about: **are you prepared if warrior sees far more nerfs than those 2?** Say into the sphere of becoming useless (which is quite often a very common theme for Arenanet). Nerf something into the ground, then eventually readdress it months later.
>
> I also love how you assume your suggested changes are what's going to happen. When in reality re-balance is done a way bigger scale and certainly not in favor of a class. This counts double when changing a core mechanic.
Yes because part of the premise is build variety as well. The current Reckless dodge, BC and Rampage are meta enforcing more than discipline in sPvP. Those will probably need a shave, and if an FH baseline patch keeps them "playable" but not useless, then THAT will be a greater good.
ANET CAN do something right for once, I am prepared for things like Reckless dodge, bull's charge, and rampage NERFED TO BALANCE but relative to other classes as well if that makes any sense. There is moderation that can be accomplished.
-
> @"Sobx.1758" said:
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > 2.) Severe nerfs? Are you.. CHANGING STORIES? I THOUGHT IT WAS POWERCREEP?
>
> From what I understand, he's saying that making FH as a class passive would inevitably bring nerfs with that change, it's not him "changing stories", it's your inability to read and connect the facts, because you are too occupied with ridiculing him.
Sure, I have already said that Reckless dodge and Bull's charge will possibly get nerfed, and that is fine. It will be realistically in a big patch anyways (along with other class nerfs), and dodge spamming while attacking has ALWAYS been stupid and not very Warrior like. I'm just saying there is a hypothetical way that ANET can do it the right way and that these "severe nerfs" can actually push more build variety without touching it's fundamentals and original usage.
In-fact, if ANET could nerf Rampage (so maybe Signet of Rage might be viable) while putting out baseline fast hands while Warrior being relevant to the meta and still balanced compared to other classes? That actually might be good.
So I ask you again, what **greater evil is going to happen?**
Does it give Warrior instant cast? Does it give Warrior the ability to ignore protection?
-
> @"Sobx.1758" said:
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > > And the thread got merged, do you know why? EVEN ANET KNOWS pointing out builds that might be aids is RELEVANT TO THE THREAD.
> > > >
> > > > Cut it out with your pathetic "burden of proof" kitten, just admit that you cannot find real arguments.
> > >
> > > Might want to check that mirror you were just talking into. What you just said applies beautifully to both sides. Unfortunately burden of proof always lies with the side which demands change. I'm fine with settling on ignoring this issue since I know Arenanet is not going to roll out baseline Fast Hands.
> > >
> > > I've tried to explain to people why, I don't care if anyone listens. Smart warrior players will give useful feedback, not so smart players will stick to their pipe dreams and complain years in when the change they want hasn't been implemented or leave the game. I'm fine with any of the outcome
> >
> > And you still haven't found a "real alternative" other than "make Warrior be able to function without baseline fast hands" and not back it up with something specific.
>
> It's not his job to "find an alternative", the thread is about someone proposing turning FH into a class unique passive and after people disagreeing told you why it's a stupid idea, that's all there is to it. Nobody is supposed to "come up with better idea" so they can dismiss another one. That's not how it works. There's a thread with a poll and a question "what you'd change about the warrior" (or something along these lines), your complaint might pass in that thread. Nobody is obligated to come up with a "counter-idea" just because they disagreed with yours.
And because you cannot find a solid counterargument, you are DOOMED to fail to convince me otherwise. Also, I can argue that you project your own evil, you are borderline trying to censor people because you think people are DEMANDING things, not trying to make a potentially constructive suggestion before ANET does something catastrophic.
So I ask again, what is your premise? Why is baseline fast hands **catastrophic?**
If you are having trouble finding one, then use Odik's (Str/Def/Spellbreaker, and how it works) or melandru's (being "stuck" in rifle with a non-discipline build should be "part" of the balance, but it's already a weak build) templates. Go.
-
> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > > And the thread got merged, do you know why? EVEN ANET KNOWS pointing out builds that might be aids is RELEVANT TO THE THREAD.
> > > >
> > > > Cut it out with your pathetic "burden of proof" kitten, just admit that you cannot find real arguments.
> > >
> > > Might want to check that mirror you were just talking into. What you just said applies beautifully to both sides. Unfortunately burden of proof always lies with the side which demands change. I'm fine with settling on ignoring this issue since I know Arenanet is not going to roll out baseline Fast Hands.
> > >
> > > I've tried to explain to people why, I don't care if anyone listens. Smart warrior players will give useful feedback, not so smart players will stick to their pipe dreams and complain years in when the change they want hasn't been implemented or leave the game. I'm fine with any of the outcome
> >
> > And you still haven't found a "real alternative" other than "make Warrior be able to function without baseline fast hands" and not back it up with something specific.
> >
>
> I don't need to find an alternative (and it seems no one i this thread on either side tries to find one too). I don't see base line Fast Hands as a solution. I see a far to strong Discipline tree which needs rework though.
>
> On the contrary, I think base line Fast Hands and the utility it brings would cause severe nerfs to warrior on many levels. Something most people are willfully ignoring here.
>
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > You realize that other classes work without Fast Hands because they have instant casts, pets, phantasms, and burst mitigation for team mates right? Warrior doesn't need any of that, OTHER CLASSES can have it for an identity. Warrior's identity is fine as is (A class that relies on stow weapon or weapon swap fake-outs for a high skill cap, no instant cast, no pets, etc [just being an honest class with no pet or instant cast garbage])
> >
>
> Every single class would benefit from Fast Hands, thiefs and revenant even more than warriors. So no, this is again wild speculation and no argument on the warriors side.
>
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > We didn't "simply demand it" we SUGGESTED it before ANET does their own thing. And when ANET does their own thing that no one asked for? That's a lot worse.
> >
>
> I have no problem with suggestions. I do have a problem with this religious zealous near fanatical defense of a suggestion without considering that focusing on other approaches would be far more productive and more likely than this change.
>
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > Literally, you're almost tolerable but you can't think of a specific idea that would make your premise work. You would legit have to give Warrior instant cast or some stupid kitten. And you at least agreed to me that your route could be A LOT MORE EVIL, but I want to hear a "specific alternative" that isn't broken or useless because MAYBE, just MAYBE you are truly better than any of the other guys who counter-argued against it but failed.
>
> I agreed that any change could be far worse. I also said that changing 1 of 9 classes on a fundamental level would cause even greater issues. Look at how Mirage and its unique dodge causes problems (and it;s an elite specialization). That's the type of change you are in for balance wise. I seriously doubt Arenanet is even going to go remotely in that direction, at most with an elite specialization and even that is a very big IF.
1.) YOU CANNOT nerf discipline right now. It has to stay is, the only time it is getting changed is when other classes get nerfed. I am hoping this is not what you are implying.
2.) Severe nerfs? Are you.. CHANGING STORIES? I THOUGHT IT WAS POWERCREEP?
3.) You are missing the point, other classes WORK without fast hands. People on the sPvP thread have already said Warrior is the most balance class in PvP even with fast hands. Fast hands is Warrior exclusive, all the strong builds right now have discipline, that is what you see in sPvP. Therefore, there is a somewhat close to unbiased statistic that counters your premise already.
4.) DO NOT compared the old FULL 1 second dodge, to something that gives Warrior (a non-evade spamming class while attacking, a class without instant cast, a class without pet) the ability to just fake-out more often with weapon swap, ability to just swap from a CC weapon to a DPS weapon often, the ability to not be a stuck on a non-defensive weapon for long periods of time. Evade spam has been HISTORICALLY worse, baseline fast hands will not give Warrior that.
-
> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > And the thread got merged, do you know why? EVEN ANET KNOWS pointing out builds that might be aids is RELEVANT TO THE THREAD.
> >
> > Cut it out with your pathetic "burden of proof" kitten, just admit that you cannot find real arguments.
>
> Might want to check that mirror you were just talking into. What you just said applies beautifully to both sides. Unfortunately burden of proof always lies with the side which demands change. I'm fine with settling on ignoring this issue since I know Arenanet is not going to roll out baseline Fast Hands.
>
> I've tried to explain to people why, I don't care if anyone listens. Smart warrior players will give useful feedback, not so smart players will stick to their pipe dreams and complain years in when the change they want hasn't been implemented or leave the game. I'm fine with any of the outcome
And you still haven't found a "real alternative" other than "make Warrior be able to function without baseline fast hands" and not back it up with something specific.
You realize that other classes work without Fast Hands because they have instant casts, pets, phantasms, and burst mitigation for team mates right? Warrior doesn't need any of that, OTHER CLASSES can have it for an identity. Warrior's identity is fine as is (A class that relies on stow weapon or FREQUENT weapon swap fake-outs for a high skill cap, no instant cast, no pets, etc [just being an honest class with no pet or instant cast garbage])
We didn't "simply demand it" we SUGGESTED it before ANET does their own thing. And when ANET does their own thing that no one asked for? That's a lot worse.
Literally, you're almost tolerable but you can't think of a specific idea that would make your premise work. You would legit have to give Warrior instant cast or some stupid crap. And you at least agreed to me that your route could be A LOT MORE EVIL, but I want to hear a "specific alternative" that isn't broken or useless because MAYBE, just MAYBE you are truly better than any of the other guys who counter-argued against it but failed.
-
> @"RedShark.9548" said:
> What? But warrior is the beginners class, easy to play, even dummies can do it, didnt you get that memo? Its so frickin overpowered, you should never drop.
>
> Sorry, im salty about ppl who never played warrior calling it easymode and demanding more nerfs.
>
> Jokes aside, if you die alot, try going for defense, keeping up adrenal health is key in that line, auto endure pain can help you survive unsuspected bursts, and auto balanced stance is helpful too.
>
> In open world play i highly recommend using gs to kite around of mobs, especially when you got low on hp, kite gs, when they get close use burst skills to get adrenal health up and then use the mobillity to get some distance, whirl through them to get dmg in while gaining distance, try using the terrain, especially ranged mobs, line of sight is important to play with
It gets harder timing anything vs. people who know how to use z-axis teleports or attack while evading.
Literally Ranger can be A LOT easier just because evade spamming while attacking with pet. Warrior in order to evade spam has to hit someone in melee range with the endurance on might trait, but then wait until ranged unblockables lmao..
-
It might be kinda okay right now tbh, way better than post-HoT or post-POF but not better than 2015 pre-HoT meta where he had the highest viewership and prize pool.
-
> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:
> I can't handle a real debated and I'm intimidated by people with real arguments
>Also I'm a petty snowflake so I will make a thread to gather really fail data
Fixed.
1/10 meme.
-
And the thread got merged, do you know why? EVEN ANET KNOWS pointing out builds that might be aids is RELEVANT TO THE THREAD THAT SUGGESTS BASELINE FASTHANDS CAN BE A VIABLE SUGGESTION.
Cut it out with your pathetic "burden of proof" crap, just admit that you cannot find real arguments. If you can't point out a build, or have to make a 1/10 fail meme thread because you can't find real arguments, then talking to you is pointless.
-
> @"Yannir.4132" said:
> Discipline is not mandatory JUST because of Fast Hands. I'd argue that in competitive modes Warrior's Sprint is actually the more important trait in the line.
> If you play other classes than just warrior, you won't even notice you're missing Fast Hands but losing the options that you get from Warrior's Sprint you will most definitely notice. Druids and Thieves suddenly become your worst nightmare with their Immob spam.
You should be fine with shake it off and/or berserker stance vs. immobs tbh.
A non-discipline build with baseline fast hands should still be able to deal with immob. And for gunflame's case? To make defense work on certain things such as gunflame; If you're asking why not just go Defense Discipline Berserker, then you will get block spammed to death and a non-crit gunflame is so worthless (no arms = gunflame is RNG and block spammable) as an example of why builds without discipline NEEDS a small push so maybe we can have an Arms Defense Berserker spec.
The class is at a point where the trees may not need much anymore other than baseline fast hands (although tactics might need something better, something that isn't just about about shouts [i would prefer that rousing resilience doesn't get moved into tactics])
Fast hands should not be discipline exclusive, other trees are actually borderline viable and need a small push. Baseline FH would be a start.
-
Also on topic:
Gunflame Arms Defense Berserker vs. Gunflame Arms Discipline Berserker
The defense version is more survivable, BUT it has less adrenaline gain and you potentially lose even Rune of the Scholar and Warrior sprint. Those are big trade-offs for a Rifle build that might be able to stand on a point for example. Gunflame hitting from 8ks (disc) to 6ks (def) is big as well, people may not have to dodge your shots anymore, but not being able to be stuck in rifle for so long on a defense build might actually be helpful for counter pressure (fighting back) or just flat out defending yourself.
Non-discipline gunflame getting the fake-out potential (weapon swap cancel something that will obviously miss > dodge bait mind game > switch to a melee weapon) of the discipline version ALSO helps out with mind games and overall buffs non-disc version in the least cancerous way.
You lose rampage by going Signet of Rage, so the trade-offs are still really intense assuming baseline fasthands happen.
-
Also with a 5 second weapon swap? Most balanced class in the game.
Reckless dodge and BC is stupid and will need a nerf, yes. But outside of Reckless dodge builds, you ACTUALLY believe there is powercreep? Are you sure it's because you're not a garbage player who doesn't know how to counter anything else Warrior does?
People are scared over nothing, it's pathetic. It will probably be in a big patch and reckless dodge/endurance on might/BC might get nerfed anyways.
What you should be scared off are people who say "nerf discipline buff other traits" or "lets make Warrior weapons playable without fast hands" because THAT is POWERCREEP LOL. Baseline fasthands + non-OP replacement trait > any of those fail suggestions.
Seriously, people who say "it is powercreep" without real application of what would happen are snowflake teenagers who are scared of "real arguments"
-
> @"sneakytails.5629" said:
> Yeah traitlines are important, but so are other things. I would even argue more important.
>
> 1. What about weapons? You dont think they are important to a build, or how they react with certain traits might matter?
It's safer to add baseline fasthands than have hammer/mace ignore stability or strip stability or have a 30% attack speed increase so it can "function" without it..
And would you rather have Killshot be baseline unblockable? That might be problematic. I think being able to be pidgeonholed into signet of might + signet of fury is balanced enough for an Arms Defense Berserker gunflame build for example.
> 2. Did we really get build diversity after baseline fast hands if everyone just grabs a Greatsword and X/Shield anyways? (I am guessing in the competitive game modes most will do exactly that)
The fact that non-discipline builds will have fake-out potential and be able to switch into GS or maybe Axe/Shield more often will help in the LEAST CATASTROPHIC WAY.
Non-discipline builds exist because of elite specs, (Arms/Def/Berserker) (Arms/Def/Spellbreaker) (Str/Def/Spellbreaker) and needs a SMALL push. Baseline fasthands is really the least catastrophic way to give these builds a small push. I suppose it's one way to make non-discipline defense builds tolerable from what I'm implying at the cost of using Rune of the Lynx or flat out losing mobility.
People already contradicted themselves by saying "why add it when discipline builds will still be stronger" therefore they already admitted to themselves that a non-discipline build won't prove powercreep. Like why do we need to touch the already "good" discipline builds when we can just keep discipline the same way as is by putting a non-OP trait, but make other builds tolerable to play by allowing the same fake out potential and ability to switch a reliable DPS weapon more often instead of getting stuck in Hammer/Mace for 9 seconds (which are bad dodge baits BUT have good utility for balance purposes) and Rifle (which can't switch to a weapon that can cleave if you're stuck into it for 9 seconds)
-
> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:
> > @"Girth.9731" said:
> > Making FH baseline is actually a great way to avoid powercreep.
>
> i don't even know what to say. its pointless lol.
"I don't know what to say. it's pointless lol." is not enough proof to say that FH baseline is the most evil powercreep to happen in history.
Guess what Obtena implied as a suggestion? Nerf discipline buff other trees. You're saying that can't have a high chance of catastrophic bad powercreep?
Cyninja would almost be tolerable, "rework Warrior so it doesn't require fast hands" but he picked the route that is inherently has the most catastrophic potential too.
We didn't ask for an attack speed increase so Warrior can "function without fast hands," we didn't ask for instant cast. We didn't ask for an OP replacement on the discipline trait.
**All we asked for is , don't touch discipline builds and incentivize (with a small SAFE buff) non-discipline builds: so we don't get stuck in Rifle for long periods of times in Arms Defense Berserker for example, or so that we are ABLE to swap into DPS weapons when we land a stun on Hammer and Mace on a NON DISCIPLINE BUILD, or so that non-discipline builds can have weapon swap cancels because that discipline exclusivity for fake-out weapon cancels don't really make sense. And if that's powercreep, name a build other than STR DEF Spellbreaker that might become OP**
The concept that Warrior can (fake-out cancel with weapon swap) leap F1 skills, or CC and then switch to a DPS weapon concept more often than other classes is fine as is. Don't need a "rework" because that is too time consuming. Should carry along to other builds, not just Discipline because it is the least catastrophic way to give changes to Warrior and probably the least time consuming thing for ANET to do. ANET doing their own thing is generally more catastrophic anyways, that's why don't go around "censoring" suggestions because feelings.
Baseline fast hands won't be catastrophic compared to anything else that was suggested. This is why you need to prove power creep, tell me what build is broken overpowered if baseline FH happens. But people are either too scared because they will be ridiculed if they say STR ARMS DEF becomes OP for bad reasons. Just TRY for god sake it isn't hard because if you try then at least you tried to prove where the powercreep is.
We already have a good standard going on where an example would be Hammer and Mace should be used for CC, it shouldn't receive an attack speed increase so it turns into Ranger GS 2.0 so it can function "without fast hands" or stability ignore. THOSE are catastrophic, baseline fasthands isn't.
But w/e, people are cowards who will NEVER find real arguments against it. Most of the arguments against it has been feelings based and so far melandru (getting stuck in rifle for a non-fast hands build as "counterplay" against non-disc rifle builds) AND Odik are the only ones who found legit arguments (STR DEF Spellbreaker dodge spam [endurance on might gain] with the defense trait). You can say it isn't "feasible," but how are these people who are against it different when they say "nerf discipline buff other trees" or "make Warrior work without relying on fast hands?" The potential hypocrisy is insane. You are saying YOUR solutions can't be more catastrophic in theory? LOL.
-
Hammer is too hard, probably use a DPS weapon instead or swap it out if you see a firebrand on the other side. The heal is good in zergs though.
Probably try out Berserker stance so you dont get blind spammed/weakness spammed. Maybe you'll like frenzy too.
There's a lot of things that you can do, but you gotta test out which one you like the best.
I'll personally always use berserker stance though. I'd consider signet of might as well vs. block spammers/firebrand comps.
-
> @"Zexanima.7851" said:
> @"Girth.9731" @"BlackTruth.6813" This might be completely insane but if I did run Strength on a zerg build, would Merciless Hammer ever be worth taking over Might Makes Right since I would be running hammer or would that be a little too squishy?
>
Well.. You don't want Merciess Hammer because you want damage that doesn't rely too much on CC.
That's why in zergs, gunflame, GS, Axe, are all good weapons. Bonus if you can find a way to make it unblockable to deal with that pesky random aegis.
-
No instant cast, no more evade while attacking other than whirlwind slash, no multi-purpose weapon like Soulbeast GS.
But.. here's to hoping the game stays honest enough so Warrior wouldn't be at a point that they need any of the above.
-
> @"Girth.9731" said:
> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:
> > **Current Builds**
> > * [Zerg/GvG](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJASRnUJCF7ilhAeeAM7ilsADPDvhHxK1gUXMAZwVACAA-j1xHABMpEEgDBQPK/eX9nw3fIgjAgX6CmHEAEKAVVVlUAruMC-w "Zerg/GvG")
> > * [solo roaming](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAoeRnMdAt6ilhAWhAkiglrADJAkASd4b4P8JWJH06qBA-j1xHABMpEMgjAw7q/E++DepJoHlfAcIAmHEAEKAVVVlUAruMC-w "Solo roaming")
> > Does anyone have success with Str/Dis/Spb? I'm just trying to think of ways to improve my damage without losing too much survivability.
>
> Yes, it is absolutely possible to run SB without defense, even in zerg fights.
>
> First off, let me start by saying that if you are playing defense SB for roaming in 2019 you are doing it wrong. The passive regen style of warrior is dead and has not kept up with the powercreep. Strength SB with Mending provides more healing, more condi clear, more endurance, more might, and more damage. I swapped from defense SB to strength SB about a month ago for sPvP and WvW roaming and trust me, its way better.
>
> As for zerging, my guildies and I in [HERE] are currently testing a SB Str Disc build for WvW. So far its showed alot of promise. You will consistantly hit higher numbers than the defense variant. Instead of relying on autoproc stances going off at the right time, you rely on spamming your dodges wth the insane endurance regen you'll get. We've found that a big part of the damage actually comes from procing Reckless Dodge. The build is more difficult to use however.
>
> In short, yes. Strength SB is now as good as or better than Defense SB in every PvP game mode.
Not having defense is always more rewarding and is harder. But is stronger if you do pull it off, yes.
But no defense means you REALLY have to land your damage, or else it's RIP
-
> @"Zexanima.7851" said:
> I think OHK is fine, but the stronger the skill/combo the bigger the tell needs to be. High risk, high reward. It shouldn't be do-able from stealth. It shouldn't never be do-able in under a second (the average reaction time is roughly .2 seconds so a second gives them plenty of time to react and consider a counter reaction). It should never be do-able without risk (e.g. Locks you in place with long cast time, you need to slot full glass to make it OHK, the visual and sound is big enough to alert the opponent)
Maul has a "big tell" but it's spammable 3 3/4 second cd, you run out of dodges to just that.
Now factor in soulbeast AUTOMATIC HIGH SKILL pet and other dodge baits/cd baits the ranger has... not very fair now is it?
Soulbeast won't die fast if you time GS cancel auto properly (God forbid that someone finds a tanky build that still does damage). You can say just catch them at the end of the auto-attack, what is to stop the pet from randomly peeling for the soulbeast.
And not to mention.. they can have a DECENT amount of unblockable uptime so they only have to pay attention to dodges.
Balanced class, hands down. This is why some "pro" ranger mains can make other classes work such as the old grenade engi post slick shoes nerf.
-
>Not being in favor of a specific change, is not the same as advocating for no change at all. That does not in any way invalidate what I said about balance. I don't have to >address how Fast Hands is power creep, this has been stated in the past. You can agree or disagree. You yourself mentioned that the trait which takes its place could be >made near useless. That alone shows that you understand that getting something for free increases power, else why make such a suggestion?
"It's powercreep" but failing to point out which specific builds will become aids. Odik was already nice enough to point out that maybe STR DEF Spellbreaker, maybe follow the same format? But I'm sure you're not going to do it.
Also, when I say the replacement trait can be made useless, they can just not touch/buff the already strong discipline builds and give the same fake-out potential to other builds.
Failing to point out where the powercreep is, is pretty pointless. Shutting down the argument with.. no real argument on which build you are so scared of is moot. I'm sure you're going to cop out and not tell me which build will prove the powercreep assuming that "discipline" builds stay as it is.
But I'll be nice and just say you ran out of "real" arguments when you said "It's called balance" because you cannot be more feelings based than that.
>You do realize that there is stuff like Fast Hands for literally every class out there, I named a few earlier. There is a ton of mechanics and limitations in place which are designed the way they are for a reason. Many often being intentionally disruptive or not available without investing into them (aka devoting to a trait line).
>It's called balance.
Like okay, so discipline being able to cancel Hammer F1s and Axe F1s more than non-discipline builds is called balance. Can't be more feelings based than that when you refuse to tell me HOW it's fair for discipline to be the only tree that allows fake-out potential and being able to swap more often to a DPS weapon when you stun somebody with hammer or mace.
>Again, not being in favor of 1 specific change is not the same as being in favor of things staying how they are. I'm sorry I disagree on what warrior needs or how Fast Hands should be dealt with.
>Sure, my first Idea would be: rework Discipline as a trait line. If Fast Hands is left in it (maybe make it a Grandmaster to facilitate its opportunity cost) , reshuffle some of its benefits to other trait lines. See how mandatory Fast Hands remains, re-balance again in the future, again down if necessary.
>Overall goal: make all builds less reliant on running Discipline even if this means losing access to Fast Hands. Net result: more build variety.
>Not saying that would be my preferred approach, but it would get the job done.
What you are proposing is POTENTIALLY time consuming. And to make Warrior not rely on 5 second swaps, what are you going to do? Increase hammer and mace attack speed? GS and Axe are already playable as is.
No specific examples of how you would rework discipline either, but it honestly feels like you're just wasting time when baseline fasthands would be good enough.
What are you going to do, give Warrior instant cast? Ignore protection? Ignore stability? Catastrophic. But w/e here's to hoping "your world" isn't garbage.
Going your route takes too much time. And god forbid that you propose actual garbage changes when something that took so little effort, didn't break the game, and is a big impact while potentially balanced could be implemented instead.
Giving all Warrior builds fake-out potential without touching the builds that already discipline should be good enough.
**Because from what it sounds like, you're trying to make NEW STANDARDS** and it isn't time tested either. What we have right now? We only need a small push. Your idea of rework is just time consuming when we already have decent standards nowadays. And I can also be as paranoid as you are and say that your way of "changing" Warrior has a higher chance of being "bad powercreep," like seriously? Making Warrior not depend on a 5 second swap? Your ideas have a chance of failing horribly as well PLUS the time consuming part. Completely reworking Warrior so it doesn't need the 10 second weapon swap? That's idealistic and not exactly better.
>**Overall goal: make all builds less reliant on running Discipline even if this means losing access to Fast Hands. Net result: more build variety.**
TL;DR Let me remind you that your ulterior motive, is potentially catastrophic as well. There is a good chance that with your proposition? That you CAN actually be worse than any of us that advocated baseline fasthands. That you can actually create a greater, more evil powercreep with what you are trying to do here.. so don't go around painting people who advocate for baseline fast hands as evil when your ideas are potentially just as catastrophic.
-
> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"cryorion.9532" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"cryorion.9532" said:
> > > > @""Cyninja.2954"
> > > > Thief has spammable weapon skills with no cooldown and revenant has access to twice as more utility skills.
> > > > Warrior does not have either. This is exactly what I meant by "but other class is like that, so warrior can't be like that" in previous post and that this issue is related only to warrior (other classes have nothing to do with it).
> > > >
> > >
> > > and? I am well aware of how thief and revenant work. That is exactly WHY I mentioned that Fast Hands would benefit those 2 classes most. It directly refutes the constant point people make that warrior somehow magically is the only class worth having 5 second weapon swap. It's not even the class which benefits or makes the most use of this feature.
> > >
> > > Yes, if we looked at the game from only a singular classes perspective there is a ton of changes and improvements we could make to make rotations easier, more fun, combat more fluent, etc.
> > >
> > > Revenant could lose it's cool downs on it's weapon and utility skills, as it was originally designed by the way. Mesmer would get back distortion share. Elementalists could lose the target cap on some of their area skills. Necromancer would get a ton of more movement skills. Etc.
> > >
> > > But this isn't a singular class game is it?
> >
> > I wrote reply to this, but I probably accidentally overwritten it by another reply.
> >
> > All classes but warrior were balanced around 10 second weapon swap since 2012. It is true that every class would benefit from 5 second weapon swap, BUT you are forgetting that all those classes have their competetive builds with 10 second weapon swap and no one complains about that.
> > Warrior on the other hand has all of those competetive builds (with maybe 1-2 exceptions if we consider all gamemodes) having 5 second weapon swap.
> > Since warrior does not have certain things, e.g. instant ports, etc, which other classes have, it is inappropriate to bring other classes into this discussion. Conditions are different, every class has different mechanics and ways of dealing with situations. I want to discuss how the change would affect warrior, not other classes, this is warrior subforum after all.
> >
>
> There is tons of complaints about every class and it's abilities. You can't just say: well see here, they work fine without 5 second weapon swap. No other class gets the opportunity to use 5 second weapons swap with a trait line like Discipline like warrior. I guarantee you, if they could, they would. There is 2 classes which would directly benefit more from having this than warrior.
>
> Warrior has those competitive Discipline builds because 5 second weapons swap is insanely strong (especially as far as access and flexibility to use weapon skills goes). On top of the fact that Discipline as trait line is very strong. If Discipline wasn't this strong, there would be more variety in builds. Thus we arrive at the core issue: Discipline as a trait line could be considered to strong. The way to deal with this is not giving Fast Hands as base line (and thus making Discipline even stronger). An alternative would be to tone down Discipline or remove Fast Hands entirely. There is multiple venues to reach equilibrium.
>
> I still don't agree that warrior is balanced around 5 second weapon swap. None of the cool downs would suggest this. Neither do cool downs of other classes suggest they are balanced around 10 second weapon swap. The most realistic assumption is: all classes are designed around 10 second weapon swap, while warrior has the ability to reduce this to 5 seconds which is taken into consideration as benefit of taking a specific trait line.
They can just replace the trait with something like 1 second fury on weapon swap? **Nobody asked for an OP replacement?** They could leave it blank.
Key word on nobody asked for an OP replacement trait assuming that baseline fast hands happen.
The other thing is.. why should I have to use discipline so that I can cancel Hammer F1 or Axe F1 more often than if I didn't use discipline? The weapon cancel (aka fake-outs to mind game or cancel something that you know will miss) on those leap burst skills shouldn't be discipline exclusive, what's wrong about making those exclusive to ALL warrior combinations?
What we are trying to do is not touch the already decent discipline builds, but maybe incentivize other combinations as well in the SAFEST way. Okay you can say just buff the other trait lines, but here's the catch I would rather not have Arms have the 100% F1 burst 100% crit chance turn into a minor for example, THAT would be potentially catastrophic.
What are you so scared of again when baseline fasthands can be EXECUTED CORRECTLY? Sure if ANET replaces it with an idiotic trait you can say "I told you so" but here's the catch they don't have to and there is a chance that they won't.
-
> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:
> > > You blow them up in one shot with Gunflame. BYE
> >
> > Actually yeah this makes sense, unblockable gunflame and kill them before their evade spam gets worse. But here's the catch, they can burst you just as hard and their lives are easier too LOL pet + soulbeast/ranger baiting dodges very high skill cap wow /sarcasm off.
>
> You just gotta be faster and more aggressive, spam them with Volley first to bait out dodges and CDs. If they're pressuring you, no to fear, you have Rifle 4, Greatsword 3, hopefully Energy Sigil, and then two dodges. And Rampage. If needs be just CC the life out of them and tank everything they throw at you.
yeah you have to be fast definitely
Discipline (more specifically, "Fast Hands")
in Warrior
Posted
> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:
> > > > ANET CAN do something right for once, I am prepared for things like Reckless dodge, bull's charge, and rampage NERFED TO BALANCE. There is moderation that can be accomplished.
> > >
> > >
> > > I love how FH baseline is THE answer ... as long as all this other stuff gets nerfed too.
> > >
> > > If Anet has to make ALL these kinds of changes to make FH baseline ... then seems to me that it's actually easier to just buff the non-Discipline lines after all, preserving meaningful choices in Discipline at the same time.
> > >
> >
> > Okay, give me an example, lets be productive for once. How do you make Arms attractive then?
>
> Certainly not by giving me access to FH ... I mean, arms is condi theme ... so buff it's condi stuff. Or give more weapons condi love. I mean, what's the point of this question? if I'm choosing Arms, I could give a RATS BEHIND about getting 5 second swapping.
Actually Arms was originally a crit strikes tree as well.
The unblockable trait already works with power builds, and the 100% burst on crit is actually nice to make Eviscerate and Gunflame "borderline" viable.
Making it full condition when berserker is better for that feels moot.
Do you HAVE a specific example? Maybe a better one. Like somewhere along the lines of making a new grandmaster minor that is ACTUALLY impactful but not broken?