BlackTruth.6813

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> You blow them up in one shot with Gunflame. BYE

Actually yeah this makes sense, unblockable gunflame and kill them before their evade spam gets worse. But here's the catch, they can burst you just as hard and their lives are easier too LOL pet + soulbeast/ranger baiting dodges very high skill cap wow /sarcasm off.

> @"JonnyForgotten.4276" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > > > Oh god what have I done LMAO the socialists are getting triggered. Capitalism is ALSO about responsibility, charity, and HARD WORK. Because there is competition, people want to work hard. There are multiple interpretations of it and if you want to go around saying some rich people are evil because some of them worked hard, go ahead. That's your opinion, and it's my preffered ideology. P.S **Communism/socialism killed more people than capitalism (i.e stalin's Russia, Venezuela)**

> > > >

> > > > Those who work the hardest should eat the most, therefore Turret Engi is wrong, Condi Mirage is wrong. That's why you see people complain about garbage socialist mechanics like that. Not to mention in GW2, terms? Those builds were NEVER fun to fight against, and the whole point of the game is to have fun. Do you HONESTLY believe people are going to have fun against builds that take ZERO effort while they have to work hard to be equal to it? That's how bad socialism is in GW2 terms.

> > > >

> > > > It's great that we agree on that there are better solutions though. We could also make new game modes that new people might like because conquest got boring along with separating solo que and team ques.THAT my friend is realistic, I also agree that team que should be the way to go but we need a population first and maybe an expansion that ISN'T garbage and imbalanced for once.

> > > >

> > >

> > > "Triggered"? Nonsense! Let's have some fun!

> > >

> > > Capitalism is about responsibility and hard work? Hah! My friend, I would say the opposite! If anything, capitalism rewards the _irresponsible_., such as wall street and the pharmaceuticals. Charity in capitalism is also pretty dishonest because it is done with the expectation of a return, which goes against the concept of charity! That billionaire doesn't just give away stuff from the bottom of his heart! Capitalism has no virtues, it is merely a system that perpetuates to make as much money as possible.

> > >

> > > As far turret engi and mirage, go, I don't support that nonsense. I've fought against them. I don't support the post-HoT powercreep that has infested pvp.

> > >

> >

> > Capitalism doesn't always mean greed. As I've said before, more compettion means people are going to want to improve and in turn better services and products are made. But then, if you redistribute wealth to the poorest schmuck, that isn't exactly competition if the schmuck starts going back to their old ways, no? And sad reality is, when you are charitable you are lowkey hoping that people try to do to others what you have done for them. Doesn't mean it's wrong to hope for people to give something in return to society if not back to yourself.

> >

> >

> > And then in socialism you get taxed at high rates (and the government never tells you where they are spending the money into). What's the point of getting rich in Venezuela? What is the point of improving goods and services by that logic if wealth will simply be redistributed so that the poorest schmuck will be "as rich" as those who worked harder? How will that poor schmuck understand the error of his ways, because some poor people ACTUALLY do not like to work hard and are bad with money? Redistributing wealth doesn't ALWAYS mean there will be good coming out of it because you redistribute wealth to the most lazy schmuck then the cycle repeats itself. How do the people on top find a way to improve their business when their wealth will simply be taken away from them? You realize that people on the top are the ones that provide jobs as well right? If they get taxed high because people want to implement socialism, they will simply cut jobs and contribute to unemployment. You have poverty so much, then you have to understand that what socialism does can lead to that as well.

> >

> > Socialism shuns improvement, effort, and people start to not accept reality for what it is once they start truly believing this ideology.

> >

> > At least you agree with me that turret engi and condi mirage is garabge in design though.

>

> So, for my two cents, I would argue that the core problem in Venezuela/Soviet Russia/Vietnam, etc wasn't/isn't socialism, it is authoritarianism. Look at the effect non-authoritarian social safety net policies have had in Europe and, to a lesser extent, the US. Taking care of the basic needs of a population up front tends to cost less resources overall than just letting people starve or be sick.

>

> As a counter example, look at what happened to Spain under Franco. Wrecked economy, impoverished population, destroyed infrastructure. . . all under a decidedly anti-communist, pro-capitalist, but highly authoritarian regime.

>

> The problem isn't socialism or capitalism, it's selfish kittens who gain power.

Wasn't the propaganda socialism/communism though? I agree that it's specifically "corrupt people" that is the true roots of the problem. But didn't their leaders market themselves under that guise and people actually bought it? Though military take over makes sense too in the latin american states.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > I really like @"Obtena.7952" , he is like a balance officer keeping people in check :joy:

> >

> > Like being completely ignorant and avoiding answering proper questions because of lack of profession knowledge?

> > This "balance officer" doesn't realize how exactly impactful the change would be on warrior profession, so how he/she can speculate the impact on overal game's balance?

> >

> > As I wrote scheme of discussion with Obtena before:

> > "Let's sum this up as simple as possible:

> >

> > You want valid reasons why make FH baseline.

> > My argument: improved rotations, their smoothness, pace and momentum of non-Discipline builds, therefore improvement for non-Discipline builds overall to be closer to Discipline builds when it comes to practicality.

> > Your argument: not big enough reason.

> >

> > I want valid reasons why not make FH baseline.

> > Your argument: powercreep.

> > My argument: let's discuss what exactly would be overperforming, too strong, broken, etc.

> > Your argument: I want valid reasons why make FH baseline."

> Its not really a rocket sience if FH is given for free its would be a major buff. Warrior isnt balanced around weapon swap in mind since its not his class mechanics.

> Your argument is smoothhness and just really good feeling when you can swap weapon every 5s get the sweet benefits of discipline traitline. So mesmers really like reduced shatter cooldowns, thieves low cd steal and more initiative because they can spam more skills but should it be baseline because this make their gameplay comfortable? Or may be it should stay a traitline...? Memes on you if they actually make it base and nerf warrior after (but most likely they goin to ignore)

Well it "buffs" STR DEF spellbreaker because you can cancel Full Counter with weapon swap VERY OFTEN (this I can't defend) if you know nobody is going to hit it and go straight to something more productive. This is important because you could bait out unblockables and dodge them, or just not be stuck in an animation no one is going to hit. To be fair it's a buff, but this can be hard to pull off though.

But I don't mind nerfs before getting baseline FH because it would realistically be in a big patch (and maybe scepter mesmer, and ranger gets nerfed) anyways. I personally don't like SB.

If it would be a buff to Berserker and a nerf to SB (in the least catastrophic way), I will be happy. I don't like SB, it's a lazy designed low mechanic spec tbh. Berserker has a higher skil cap with fake-outs..

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > 344 heal per second * 10 seconds = 3440 health per 10 seconds

> > 344 heal per second * 20 second = 6880 health per 20 seconds

> >

> > now compare it with the other heals in game, tell me how "good" healing signet really is

> >

> > troll unguent traited: 20 seconds cooldown = 8496 health per 20 seconds

> > healing turret: 15 second cooldown (if picked up) 5040 health per 15 seconds = 6720 per 20 + 2 condi cleansed + water field)

> > false oasis 25 sercond cooldown 8100 health =6480 health per 20 seconds + vigor + mirage mirror

> >

> > think it's starting to look clear allready, healing signet is not the issue it's actual total health/time is balanced with other heals

> >

> > i mean lol https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

> >

> > - -8%

> > - +5%

> > - -10%

> >

> You forgot small detail ,you never need to cast it, you never being interrupted on cast (that u never use) ,you still do your stuff as doing damage or kiting blocking and whatnot and getting healed .Warrior have the most absurd healing skill in the game 12s cd 6500 heal -3 condis and gives 10% more damage from strenght trait (obsly traited with it) but who use it ... ? If you think healing signet isnt really good,thats just your opinion but all good/best warriors never swap it out ,think about it ;)

> I really like @"Obtena.7952" , he is like a balance officer keeping people in check :joy:

>

There is actually a potentially more cancer heal than healing signet actually. Nobody has caught up on it yet and nobody talks about it because they have no idea how to use it.

The resistance is nice (tarcis has done this before, using the heal to do something vs. blind spam if there is no burst damage around) vs. people who don't do much damage

But since there's so much damage in the game, I don't like to use signet much anymore.

The system is already trying it's best to do that.. maybe if we had more people to play with then the system can adjust itself. But yeah separating team ques and solo ques will literally have 10 minute ques because again we need people to come first.

I've been trying to get new friends to play this game too, and they keep saying "GW2 is old, why not play a new game"

So obviously "fixing" matchmaking isn't the only way to get new players.

The best way will always be..read the descriptions yourself and make your own spec.

And then ask yourself, how well does the spec bait dodges and cds. If it's a support like firebrand it's like ask yourself if it's able to make it so that your team can save a defensive cd and a dodge.

> @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > Oh god what have I done LMAO the socialists are getting triggered. Capitalism is ALSO about responsibility, charity, and HARD WORK. Because there is competition, people want to work hard. There are multiple interpretations of it and if you want to go around saying some rich people are evil because some of them worked hard, go ahead. That's your opinion, and it's my preffered ideology. P.S **Communism/socialism killed more people than capitalism (i.e stalin's Russia, Venezuela)**

> >

> > Those who work the hardest should eat the most, therefore Turret Engi is wrong, Condi Mirage is wrong. That's why you see people complain about garbage socialist mechanics like that. Not to mention in GW2, terms? Those builds were NEVER fun to fight against, and the whole point of the game is to have fun. Do you HONESTLY believe people are going to have fun against builds that take ZERO effort while they have to work hard to be equal to it? That's how bad socialism is in GW2 terms.

> >

> > It's great that we agree on that there are better solutions though. We could also make new game modes that new people might like because conquest got boring along with separating solo que and team ques.THAT my friend is realistic, I also agree that team que should be the way to go but we need a population first and maybe an expansion that ISN'T garbage and imbalanced for once.

> >

>

> "Triggered"? Nonsense! Let's have some fun!

>

> Capitalism is about responsibility and hard work? Hah! My friend, I would say the opposite! If anything, capitalism rewards the _irresponsible_., such as wall street and the pharmaceuticals. Charity in capitalism is also pretty dishonest because it is done with the expectation of a return, which goes against the concept of charity! That billionaire doesn't just give away stuff from the bottom of his heart! Capitalism has no virtues, it is merely a system that perpetuates to make as much money as possible.

>

> As far turret engi and mirage, go, I don't support that nonsense. I've fought against them. I don't support the post-HoT powercreep that has infested pvp.

>

Capitalism doesn't always mean greed. As I've said before, more compettion means people are going to want to improve and in turn better services and products are made. But then, if you redistribute wealth to the poorest schmuck, that isn't exactly competition if the schmuck starts going back to their old ways, no? And sad reality is, when you are charitable you are lowkey hoping that people try to do to others what you have done for them. Doesn't mean it's wrong to hope for people to give something in return to society if not back to yourself.

And then in socialism you get taxed at high rates (and the government never tells you where they are spending the money into). What's the point of getting rich in Venezuela? What is the point of improving goods and services by that logic if wealth will simply be redistributed so that the poorest schmuck will be "as rich" as those who worked harder? How will that poor schmuck understand the error of his ways, because some poor people ACTUALLY do not like to work hard and are bad with money? Redistributing wealth doesn't ALWAYS mean there will be good coming out of it because you redistribute wealth to the most lazy schmuck then the cycle repeats itself. How do the people on top find a way to improve their business when their wealth will simply be taken away from them? You realize that people on the top are the ones that provide jobs as well right? If they get taxed high because people want to implement socialism, they will simply cut jobs and contribute to unemployment. You have poverty so much, then you have to understand that what socialism does can lead to that as well.

Socialism shuns improvement, effort, and people start to not accept reality for what it is once they start truly believing this ideology.

At least you agree with me that turret engi and condi mirage is garabge in design though.

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > Those who work the hardest should eat the most, therefore Turret Engi is wrong, Condi Mirage is wrong. That's why you see people complain about garbage socialist mechanics like that. Not to mention in GW2, terms? Those builds were NEVER fun to fight against, and the whole point of the game is to have fun. Do you HONESTLY believe people are going to have fun against builds that take ZERO effort while they have to work hard to be equal to it? That's how bad socialism is in GW2 terms.

>

> I'm not sure why you're conflating an economic system with a game's mechanics, but we'll roll with it?

I'm not perfect with analogies but it's not like we can't try doing that lol..

Oh god what have I done LMAO the socialists are getting triggered. Capitalism is ALSO about responsibility, charity, and HARD WORK. Because there is competition, people want to work hard. There are multiple interpretations of it and if you want to go around saying some rich people are evil because some of them worked hard, go ahead. That's your opinion, and it's my preffered ideology. P.S **Communism/socialism killed more people than capitalism (i.e stalin's Russia, Venezuela)**

Those who work the hardest should eat the most, therefore Turret Engi is wrong, Condi Mirage is wrong. That's why you see people complain about garbage socialist mechanics like that. Not to mention in GW2, terms? Those builds were NEVER fun to fight against, and the whole point of the game is to have fun. Do you HONESTLY believe people are going to have fun against builds that take ZERO effort while they have to work hard to be equal to it? That's how bad socialism is in GW2 terms.

It's great that we agree on that there are better solutions though. We could also make new game modes that new people might like because conquest got boring along with separating solo que and team ques.THAT my friend is realistic, I also agree that team que should be the way to go but we need a population first and maybe an expansion that ISN'T garbage and imbalanced for once.

> @"melandru.3876" said:

> IF fast hands becomes baseline, which i'm not a fan off

>

> then you can be 100% sure that bulls charge, rampage OR both will get the nerfhammer

> then the str/disc/spb or core str/disc/def build gets a massive hit.

>

> peak performance will be worthless without either rampage (very likely to get a damage nerf/cooldown increase..so everyone back to signet of rage)

> or

> without bulls charge which is most likely to lose eithers it's evade-frame, it's cc, or it's damage.

>

> losing out on a huge multiplier (+10%) and a possible gap closer, unless people will still take it just for the mobility which i seem unlikely

>

> i'm not sure if i'm willing to risk any of the above, knowing anets history it won't be OR it will be ALL

> makei it useless by nerfing the kitten out of it, then never to be looked back at

Here is to hoping that when baseline fasthands happen, rampage BC and boring spellbreaker gets nerfed ALONG with soulbeast and etc. Classes like soulbeast is just zzz

All the goodies in one patch definitely. Rampage can get nerfed if other cnacers get nerfed and get reworked to balance. I'm assuming the realistic time for baseline fast hands to happen.. is in a big balance patch.

Sounds like a plan tbh.

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> >

> > I wouldn't be surprised if this guy said bring back the old turret engi so that new players might stand a chance. Let's make it so that the poorest schmuk can be as good as people who do hard work.

>

> Isn't that why ANET introduced the condi mirage (and previously scourge) of a few seasons ago ....to let the poorest schmuk be as good as people who do hard work? :p

Yep, ANET had a history of doing this and they ended upgetting a lot of hate. Here is to hoping condi mirage is the last..

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > I guess when it comes down to it, this is just PvP communism. @"Ithilwen.1529" wants to ensure the road to future PvP legendary items won't be slowed down by having low skill.

> > >

> > > You can suggest ArenaNet change the matchmaker to ensure equality of outcome for all at 50% win rate. The problem is that there's a vast difference between player's skill.

> > >

> > > Plato: "Nothing is so unequal than the equal treatment of unequal people."

> > >

> > > Every PvP game has leagues resembling a hierarchy.. That's gaming.

> > >

> > > Right now, the game already gives a push towards 50% win rate by balancing team MMR, handicapping/boosting your teammates relative to you. It's already pretty beginner friendly.

> >

> > I don't get why people think communism/socialism is a good ideology. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy said bring back the old turret engi so that new players might stand a chance. Let's make it so that the poorest schmuk can be as good as people who do hard work. Like when the guy says "while newcomers would be protected from the kind of losing streaks we saw in season 3." I don't know, how is ANET going to implement something like that in the first place. Protecting new comers from losing streaks? What is to stop smurfs from trolling new comers? The system will have no way of finding out what a smurf is if the smurf manipulates the matchmaking.

> >

> > There has to be a better solution to get "new people" in other than changing a system that is fated to be RNG.

>

> Ignoring the comments about socialism...

>

> Turret engi in its original form would actually be extremely weak these days in comparison to the current meta, because the amount of AoE damage that's currently achievable. Turrets would never survive long enough to make a significant enough impact.

That's beyond the point, all I'm saying is everybody has to climb up be it in rank or how good they actually are. Making builds like condi mirage and turret engi the OLD turret engi (not taking place in this era obviously) is flat out stupid because it's a person who has more experience should win and ANET intervening with that concept is stupid, or changing something that is fated to be RNG to "help" new players is just idealistic and too hard.

To help new players you HAVE to teach them that this game is about trading cds and dodges nowadays, there are some instances where you have to trade hits, sure but it is mostly about the latter.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > I've already said "fake-outs" and fluidity should not be exclusive to discipline. That's one example.

> Tbh faking out hammer or axe isnt greatest idea against majority if not almost everyone. If you are facing meh skilled players they wont even bother to dodge your bursts or being jebaited into using evades... I tried...they just dont care and most of time you can be like... I should fake ... ? Lets see if he dodge and you actually land your burst xD

> I still assured FH shouldnt happen until rampage is nerfed . (Holo need lots of nerfs too , I cant be bad vs holo on everything I play ,even rampage doesnt make it too trivial)

> I'd rather see bug fixes and berserker revival first.

> > So far Odik said STR DEF Spellbreaker AND it holds water. Melandru said STR ARMS Zerker gunflame might become broken and some of what he says is actually not stupid though he picked a very glassy build with many counters. You don't want to follow the example? Then we can't have an honest discussion.

> Yes . There was my warning also . If you get it baseline (if that happen) and would be too strong, most likely you going to regret it, anet nerfs are no joke

>

Yeah and I can see why Reckless dodge and Bull's Charge will need a nerf before we get baseline FH as well. I would prefer it that way tbh imo.

Although I do miss playing Warrior without having to rely too much on Rampage either (maybe baseline fast hands will make this work), but again like we agreed on... ranger and a lot of classes are stupid too. So the rampage nerf will be delayed maybe.

I've already said "fake-outs" and fluidity should not be exclusive to discipline. That's one example.

With Discipline you can fake out Hammer F1 and Axe F1 more often with the WEAPON SWAP, ALL I am trying to do is make Axe and Hammer and MANY other builds tolerable without having to use discipline. If baseline fast hands happens, then Hammer F1 and Axe F1 can finally have unsuspecting foe and 100% burst trait respectively without having to ALWAYS use discipline. What is so wrong about that?

Also more importantly, Hammer and Mace rotations REQUIRE you to swap to a DPS weapon once you land a stun. Without fast hands? It's impossible do this often. THIS IS what fluidity means.

Would you RATHER have me ask for an attack speed buff on Mace and Hammer when THAT is potentially a catastrophic suggestion?

All I'm trying to do with baseline fast hands as well is so that builds that don't use discipline will be available to the same fake-out potential and fluidity. I don't ALWAYS want to use stow weapon to cancel F1 for example, sometimes the weapon swap can be a better cancel.

And I'm suggesting a change that will change Warrior in the least catastrophic way, what more do you want from me? Legit this is why I am asking for what build is going to be OP, what build will prove the "powercreep"

So far Odik said STR DEF Spellbreaker AND it holds water. Melandru said STR ARMS Zerker gunflame might become broken and some of what he says is actually not stupid though he picked a very glassy build with many counters. You don't want to follow the example? Then we can't have an honest discussion.

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > All of the discussion about if FH makes things OP or if there is powercreep, how ever you want to define it, are irrelevant. Just because people aren't willing to engage you in a speculation game doesn't mean it's "OK" to make FH baseline.

>

> So now we call it speculation game. Interesting. So why did you wrote something that implied that the new Discipline minor trait would be so strong that it would create powercreep for Discipline builds? Speculation.

Also, LOL. There we go, hard exposed right here.

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > @"Xaylin.1860" said:

> > This discussion is ridiculus. I have been very constructive since I'm all for theory crafting or improving the game. However, I've been mostly met with insults, childish rants or at best irritating ignorance.

> >

> > I'll see myself and my deflective strawman arguments out so you can find bliss in unreflected agreement on the future for this class. Despite your agreement, it will probably not include baseline FH.

> >

> > TL:DR

> > Your loss. Have a great time. ?

>

> Before you leave, please explain how would, in your opinion, FH baseline make warrior broken. What builds would be so strong that it would create powercreep.

> I am glad that you came up with some alternatives, but also you are the one who accused me for demanding answers from people. All I did was asking proper questions, if people here argument, I expect them to be knowledgeable about the class well enough to provide examples and in depth explanations :) Isn't that essential for this kind of topic? But those people avoid that for some reason. If their arguments are so good, why not back them up with accurate examples that are related with the profession?

>

> And since you mentioned irritating ignorance, look at @"Obtena.7952" 's replies. He/she proposes nerfs instead. Without realizing how impactful this whole nerf would be on warrior class in every game mode. That nerfing FH and/or Discipline would basically obliterated vast majority of time-tested builds and rotations, that it would make a lot of good builds worse only to promote weak and less useful builds for nowadays standards. That is flawed and ignorat argumenting right there. Just because FH (and whole Discipline traitline) makes using warrior's main mechanics much more effective (including faster-paced weapon skill usage), doesn't mean it is too strong, overpowered and now we should nerf what is good on a class just to equalize it with bad. That is lacking common sense so much...

> Where were all those people when it was like this for ages? It seems that they suddenly see opportunity to nerf warrior, so why not, even though all those arguments are based on being ingorant to warrior profession and the repercussions of proposed nerfs. Their mentality seems to be "warrior can handle big nerfs to every vast majority of builds they have been using for years, its ok, everybody else can live with that, we dont play that class that much anyway".

At least melandru has improved his behavior, what does Xaylin do? Cop out, give up, and LEGIT showed lack of common sense when he said "you're not willing to sacrifice anything." God tier disgusting right there. Now we know who can be taken seriously and who can't.

> @"melandru.3876" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > You realize that STR ARMS zerker gunflame dies instantly to every class right? And you can simply catch the Warrior after you see two dodges and whirlwind slash. Baseline fast hands won't magically make that build OP when people actually know how to catch you when your shield is down your when whirlwind attack is down on GS..

> >

> > But this is a good start and how DISCUSSIONS should have been from the beginning. Good character development.

>

> what magically build do you use, greatsword +x/shield+rifle

> no wonder why you are so good and want weapon swap, you allready play with 3 sets

Rifle + GS or Rifle + x/shield is what I meant.

If you are Rifle + GS, and you're on GS with baseline fast hands, all they have to do is wait for 2-3 dodges + whirlwind attack, and you die.

If you are on Rifle + x/shield, then they simply have to wait 2-3 dodges and for the block to go down and you die.

No defense tree isn't hard to kill, like you said you can kill people fast but you die fast too.

You can say you can rampage in the middle of it, but most of the time that will be a bad rampage and you'll get blind spammed/weakness spammed to death. Fast hands baseline won't make STR ARMS zerker op, trust me.

You realize that STR ARMS zerker gunflame dies instantly to every class right? And you can simply catch the Warrior after you see two dodges and whirlwind slash. Baseline fast hands won't magically make that build OP when people actually know how to catch you when your shield is down your when whirlwind attack is down on GS..

But this is a good start and how DISCUSSIONS should have been from the beginning. Good character development.

>I said my opinion ,defense str tether might become too strong . If something gets too strong ... You know anet nerf it with 50% first but in mirage case I even seen 67% on >axe ambush... careful :expressionless:

>Once again I'l make emphasis on this :

I can respect someone that talks like this. That's why no hate. (People who make real talk, not bad excuses for "no baseline fast hands"). Basically you're the only one who responded properly so far and I can see why STR DEF Spell might be a problem.

Basically proper response = respect

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > Not sure If i understand you correctly but warrior can pretty much stunlock you to death thanks to boonrip on spellbreaker and immob on CC also will prevent them from evading. You know ppl do only 1 dodge mechanically after breakstun, but they cant because immob, so they dont expect they wont dodge, mind games...

> > > > I agree ranger is dumb and its damage just ridiculous but its not something we have control over. Such biased hypocrites as Trevor get in the way of bringing justified nerfs on this using exact same arguments as certain mirage players :)

> > > > (I thought you would be hostile to me since I main mesmer... :blush: )

> > > >

> > >

> > > There are exceptions, I have respect for countless and zeromis for example. I have respect for Hiro/Talgo for ranger mains as well (sad he doesn't play anymore, he would tank people on a point when everybody was saying ranger was underpowered XD)

> > >

> > > Also, now that I think about it, maybe **unsuspecting foe spellbreaker might become strong** (THIS is how we should be discussing people)

> > >

> > > Spellbreaker might start being able to do damage with soldier amulet in WvW, and with Cavalier amulet in PvP IF baseline fasthands is implemented. Any thoughts on that? Arms + Def + Spellbreaker, Str + Arms + Spellbreaker for example.

> >

> > amulets in wvw?

> > new player detected..

> Wow he said soldier amulet ! which doesnt exist in pvp for a long time ...may be thats you who is the new ?(also that obvious he meant soldier armor) Your thread about weapon swapping is a meme dude, you cant get sigils on swap faster than its CD because they would be still on CD.

> @"BlackTruth.6813"

> Everyone hate me tho , why wouldnt you hate me as well ? :open_mouth:

Well.. who else is willing to talk about builds that "might become OP" if baseline fast hands comes out? You can see why from there.

Lol why did I say amulet, I meant PVT gear XD LOL (this one is an honest mistake, but people would get what I'm saying anyways. And at least I correct myself lmao)

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > Not sure If i understand you correctly but warrior can pretty much stunlock you to death thanks to boonrip on spellbreaker and immob on CC also will prevent them from evading. You know ppl do only 1 dodge mechanically after breakstun, but they cant because immob, so they dont expect they wont dodge, mind games...

> > > I agree ranger is dumb and its damage just ridiculous but its not something we have control over. Such biased hypocrites as Trevor get in the way of bringing justified nerfs on this using exact same arguments as certain mirage players :)

> > > (I thought you would be hostile to me since I main mesmer... :blush: )

> > >

> >

> > There are exceptions, I have respect for countless and zeromis for example.

> >

> > Also, now that I think about it, maybe **unsuspecting foe spellbreaker might become strong** (THIS is how we should be discussing people)

> >

> > Spellbreaker might start being able to do damage with soldier amulet in WvW, and with Cavalier amulet in PvP IF baseline fasthands is implemented. Any thoughts on that?

>

> The only problem could be defense/str/tether spb because...obvious huge sustain/huge admage thing ,basically becoming a scrapper2 but that also hate boons and goes rampage to solve the matter once getting outplayed ,somehow xd

> The answer is : we need testing . We need to try it live. But guess who dont have test servers where you can actually test stuff before release?

> Many 'useless' traits could have a rework or something . I honestly think arms wont be very competitive in pvp ever until some rework happen

Yeah you're right, I am hoping ANET is willing to hotfix nowadays as well if something "catastrophic" happens.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> Not sure If i understand you correctly but warrior can pretty much stunlock you to death thanks to boonrip on spellbreaker and immob on CC also will prevent them from evading. You know ppl do only 1 dodge mechanically after breakstun, but they cant because immob, so they dont expect they wont dodge, mind games...

> I agree ranger is dumb and its damage just ridiculous but its not something we have control over. Such biased hypocrites as Trevor get in the way of bringing justified nerfs on this using exact same arguments as certain mirage players :)

> (I thought you would be hostile to me since I main mesmer... :blush: )

>

There are exceptions, I have respect for countless and zeromis for example. I have respect for Hiro/Talgo for ranger mains as well (sad he doesn't play anymore, he would tank people on a point when everybody was saying ranger was underpowered XD)

Also, now that I think about it, maybe **unsuspecting foe spellbreaker might become strong** (THIS is how we should be discussing people)

Spellbreaker might start being able to do damage with soldier gear (PVT) in WvW, and with Cavalier amulet in PvP IF baseline fasthands is implemented. Any thoughts on that? Arms + Def + Spellbreaker, Str + Arms + Spellbreaker for example.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > > > Also I don't mind reckless dodge getting gutted, personally. We don't need evading while attacking mechanics. Rampage can only get nerfed if soulbeast and chrono instant cast burst gets nerfed. Reckless can go, I don't care. You're right, bullscharge should only CC, not deal insane damage as well. It was fine as a CC tool and you can already use it to escape as well. I don't know why they added an evade and more damage when it was already fine.

> > > Fyi entire mesmer class holding on a thin wire called scepter and probably chaos and when its gone that GS is only thing to play with (which isnt good alrdy except for killing unaware ppl) If anet gives mesmer other way to play it I'm all for it :)

> > > There is no excuses to leave rampage for whatever reason. Any skll potentially oneshots and its not hard to exhaust your opponent before going rampage .

> > > (At least you agree on reckless and BC , yay )

> >

> > Like I said I try to not be biased, I only want fixes that aren't catastrophic.

> Tbh you ignoring Obtena posts way too much. He alrdy gave you an example of soulreapin on necro ,that ended up removal of the trait (but they buffed spectrals as compensation at least...) So be careful with your wishes.

> Also BF base wont make things way too much different and you still would miss sprint/cleanse on swap and adrenaline on swap ,this change will make BF with new trait even more desirable. Also for warrior (spellbreaker) would be very reasonable to ask to make revenge counter to increase damage from FC by 100% . Ask to fix this inconsistent rush, dagger leaps,both ,they arent connecting a lot and ppl abuse it against you by walking into you (or something like this) . I'm not warrior main but I play it way more often since they killed mirage and I'd like to see this fixes instead to make my gameplay smooth and not buggy

Yeah that's why I asked what "WARRIOR" build might become OP with baseline fast hands. Assuming that they don't replace the discipline trait with something broken, IF fast hands baseline does happen. Making an example from other classes doesn't make sense, Warrior can't just chain fear people to death without having to wait stability out if Necro is going to be a legitimate example (Unless you're saying Fear Me stun lock while doing damage works, god I miss those days when I could actually do that XD).

People are paranoid about the trait replacement, but I'm not asking for them to replace it with something OP. Maybe just 1 second of fury when you swap weapons.

I'm suspecting people will start complaining about unsuspecting foe, unblockable builds, and rousing resillience, but I can't see those builds with baseline fast hands and no discipline being stronger than the current warrior meta. Just want a different way to align traits really.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > Also I don't mind reckless dodge getting gutted, personally. We don't need evading while attacking mechanics. Rampage can only get nerfed if soulbeast and chrono instant cast burst gets nerfed. Reckless can go, I don't care. You're right, bullscharge should only CC, not deal insane damage as well. It was fine as a CC tool and you can already use it to escape as well. I don't know why they added an evade and more damage when it was already fine.

> Fyi entire mesmer class holding on a thin wire called scepter and probably chaos and when its gone that GS is only thing to play with (which isnt good alrdy except for killing unaware ppl) If anet gives mesmer other way to play it I'm all for it :)

> There is no excuses to leave rampage for whatever reason. Any skll potentially oneshots and its not hard to exhaust your opponent before going rampage .

> (At least you agree on reckless and BC , yay )

Like I said I try to not be biased, I only want fixes that aren't catastrophic.

> @"Xaylin.1860" said:

> This discussion is ridiculus. I have been very constructive since I'm all for theory crafting or improving the game. However, I've been mostly met with insults, childish rants or at best irritating ignorance.

>

> I'll see myself and my deflective strawman arguments out so you can find bliss in unreflected agreement on the future for this class. Despite your agreement, it will probably not include baseline FH.

>

> TL:DR

> Your loss. Have a great time. ?

Exactly, exit the stage quietly because you can't find a real argument AGAINST baseline fast hands. My evidence? You didn't try to counter my argument that says "Warrior still has to sacrifice for something" even with baseline fast hands, you gave up you **OBJECTIVELY** lost. Next. The feelings based "you loss" though is so in denial, the cringe is real XD

TL;DR In denial, triggered because his ideas are legit bad, and can't fight back anymore.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> >nonsense text

> If warrior unblockable dodge gets 200 base damage , rampage 240s cd, bullcharge 50s cd with 50% damage nerf . You can have FH baseline imo

> Srsly , it feels like OP came straight from kindergarten and demand FH to be base for free based on.. what? Thieves dont really feel well playing without trickery so imagine them cry about making sleight of hand and bonus initiative base BECAUSE they cant play without it (and so every class)

Also I don't mind reckless dodge getting gutted, personally. We don't need evading while attacking mechanics. Rampage can only get nerfed if soulbeast and chrono instant cast burst gets nerfed. Reckless can go, I don't care. You're right, bullscharge should only CC, not deal insane damage as well. It was fine as a CC tool and you can already use it to escape as well. I don't know why they added an evade and more damage when it was already fine. Warrior should be fine even without reckless dodge and bull's charge tbh, bull's charge is just buggy and reckless dodge is just evading while attacking mechanics (which I NEVER really liked at all on any class)