Terrorhuz.4695

At this point I'm inclined to think most of staff skills need a buff. Ele staff is trash, mesmer staff is trash, guardian staff is trash, soulbeast staff is trash [EDIT: I didn't really mean soulbeast but you know what I mean :(]. Daredevil staff is... sort of acceptable, the only ones good are revenant's and necro's.

As if thief hadn't plenty of ways to access stealth (and the HP recover\condi cleanse\initiative regeneration it comes with) and blindness, and as if stealing from a mesmer didn't grant god-mode for 3 seconds, stealing from a ranger didn't grant a second HP bar (every 20 seconds; and that can be used twice if you trait for it) Thief doesn't need any buff, thief needs better players, it's a different thing.

> @"darren.1064" said: > some rants about how thief needs a buff just thinner your finger

When the thieves in this thread started crying about how low their damage is, I stopped replying and tried to screenshot the damage I got when thieves attacked me. Right now, in my combat log, I see a list of these spammable skills that require 0 investment, defensive traitlines and apparently deal low damage 5.7k backstab 5.1k vault 4.4k shadowshot 8.6k backstab LMAO -this one probably used assassin's signet... there has at least one thief in this game that gets the damage, but actually invests something in offensive utilities- 4.1k cloak and dagger If that doesn't do the trick, just dash somewhere safe, stealth and repeat until someone dies. I'd gladly ask again: may I get some low damage too? I'd really love if devs gave mesmer some low damage as well. Until I get some low damage too, if you can't kill anyone with thief I just think you need to get thinner fingers. EDIT got another 6.7k backstab rn

The problem is not in immobilize itself. The problem lies in the dev who thought that placing a 9s immobilize on a skill with 20s cooldown was a cool idea. That would be stupid even if the roots themselves weren't buggy. And they are.

> @"darren.1064" said: > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > @"Frodox.1283" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Frodox.1283" said: > > > > > Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game. > > > > > > > > the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win. > > > > > > Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks. > > > > I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :( > > > > The absolute state of this class I stg > > I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil. [iNSERT THANOS SAYING "I don't even know who you are"] Also for the record, tested all the numbers again just today on zerk amulet, I can confirm all of them except larcenous strike which was a lot lower -and I highlighted my mistake in the original comment for clarity-. I confirm also my small advice about getting thinner fingers if you can't kill people on thief 'cause honestly if you can't get a kill even on an immortal class only a dev console could make it any easier.

> @"Raiden The Beast.3016" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > @"Frodox.1283" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Frodox.1283" said: > > > > > > Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game. > > > > > > > > > > the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win. > > > > > > > > Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks. > > > > > > I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :( > > > > > > The absolute state of this class I stg > > > > Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3 *offensive* traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities". > > Agree, where these 5k should come from ? From a perfect condition backstep w/o any evade left, condi proc sigill and crit ? ... for sure these 5k arnt our super dooper 210crit AA's ... > > We r just in the meta bc of our mobility ... reach the +1 a bit faster than the real killers like rene/rev which is for sure an advantage in p2+ and mat or other tourneys but for the rest of the playerbase 95% it is garbage ? I get them daily. Anything a thief does hits between 4.5k and 5.5k, with perma blind and perma stealth on d\p, or perma evade if the thief feels original and runs something else Backstab? 4.5k from stealth, no ini cost too so it's free, good luck dodging it and even if you do, there's another one coming so who cares Shadowshot? 4.5k + unblockable blind + range too Cloak and dagger? 4.5k and stealth, sometimes damage is even higher, once I got hit for 8k and I'm still struggling to understand how tf dat happened. It doesn't have range but as any skill you can steal into it so it's fine Pistol whip? Stun + evade + got hit for 6.8k after patch. Nobody runs it anymore, IDK why and I don't really care either, but the damage is there Larcenous strike? 5k, unblockable [EDIT: 5k is BS, it's actually 3k]. Yeah, range pretty poor and sadly, it's not like sword has an immobilize + 900 range teleport that ignores LOS Cluster bomb? That one's more random, anything from 2.5k to 4.5k depending on how the RNG god blesses you. Once any of that connects it's just a spam fiesta of heartseeker, which again, hits for at least 4k when used under the right conditions. And that's assuming the thief in question isn't even running condi, which brings a whole lot of different issues, -'cause the damage is still there-, but at least it can't chase\stealth as much so at least there's some room for some semblance of counterplay, 'cause in every other scenario the only way to deal with a thief is just to tank until the guy eventually gets bored and find something else to do. If you can't kill anyone despite having large access to unblockables, blinds, stealths, plenty of dodges, immunity to any kind of movement impeding conditions and what not it's kinda your fault 'cause the tools are there. All in all, everything a thief does hits 4k+, except autoattacks, you wanted grenade kit too? Can't really understand how all of these thieves can come up with all of that BS about being weak and underpowered, at this point it's either trolling or a serious fat fingers issue.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > @"Frodox.1283" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Frodox.1283" said: > > > > > Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game. > > > > > > > > the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win. > > > > > > Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks. > > > > I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :( > > > > The absolute state of this class I stg > > Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3 *offensive* traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities". Ok dagger\pistol

> @"Frodox.1283" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Frodox.1283" said: > > > Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game. > > > > the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win. > > Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks. I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :( :( :( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :( :( :( THIEF DEAD :( :( :( The absolute state of this class I stg

> @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > Removing damage from CCs was a stupid decision -one which, not surprisingly, came from CmC. > > > > I've heard people complaining about being kamehameha'd by holosmiths for 12k with Prime Light Beam as an example of why damage on CC is toxic, nobody ever explained me why in the world wouldn't some reasonable multipliers do the trick -which is what happens to literally any skill in game; if something hits too hard it's brought back in line, unless you are a engi with grenades, in which case you can keep the craziest multipliers ever. > > > > And this comes from a mesmer, I have nothing to gain from damage on CC since all of my CCs never dealt damage to begin with, this didn't nerf me in the slightest. > > idk some cc's certainly did need the reduction like cc's that were kinda quick ish and did high damage certainly were getting unhealthy but some the the big tell slower ones that most people with any kind of exp knows how to dodge when they see it coming could have probably kept the damage on. In the case of warrior most cc's keeping their damage might have been ok... the exceptions start for me with rampage because getting hit with a bolder for 8k damage then rushed at for another 8k damage then kicked for 4k damage was just dumb af. > > Then you have cc like big ol bomb and things that actaully take a long time to go off that really should do damage and now dont do damage. > CC's that have damage modifiers like Reaper shroud 5 , warrior berserker's headbutt, etc that have modifiers that say if this then you get rewarded with increased damage not doing damage kinda feels bad. > > Big aoe elites that cc im ok with not doing damage things like jade winds, chill to the bone, gravity well, etc those losing damage was totally fine imo. > So for me its a love hate i think they could have broken it down a little bit better on what should and shouldnt keep damage but in the quite sight of things they didnt want one set of class players complaining about another class that got to keep its cc damage on a particular base skill while everyone else lost theirs. > > They did say they would rework or bring the damage back to some skills in question but that was months ago i have the feeling it wont happen now. If it is going to happen it wont happen till another big standardize patch comes which probably wont be for a while my guess is some months or weeks before End of Dragons is set to release. I'm a minority, but the problem with the boulder wasn't the damage per se (even though it was too high; I'd have it lowered by 33%); the problem with the boulder was that they made it a heatseeking missile. The problem from CC as a whole could be solved by just applying some reasonable modifiers, just as it happens for every other skill in game. Pistol 5 from mesmer deals 500 damage? It's a 0.5s cast time with 25s cooldown, the low damage is fair. Prime light beam deals 5-6k damage? 1s cast time, 60s cooldown, the high damage is fair. Now they are all on the same level when they clearly aren't the same thing.

All very basic, all very useful, thanks for posting a meaningful contribute

Removing damage from CCs was a stupid decision -one which, not surprisingly, came from CmC. I've heard people complaining about being kamehameha'd by holosmiths for 12k with Prime Light Beam as an example of why damage on CC is toxic, nobody ever explained me why in the world wouldn't some reasonable multipliers do the trick -which is what happens to literally any skill in game; if something hits too hard it's brought back in line, unless you are a engi with grenades, in which case you can keep the craziest multipliers ever. And this comes from a mesmer, I have nothing to gain from damage on CC since all of my CCs never dealt damage to begin with, this didn't nerf me in the slightest.

> @"Marxx.5021" said: > Having a healbreaker only in one team is like playing a 5 vs 6. Why is such a mayor imbalance not fixed immediately? 'Cause it doesn't need one. All you need to do when someone is downed is target the healbraker, count to 2 and drop a daze. Spellbreaker needed a big nerf, it got one and now it stays in the dust where it belongs. No need to beat it any further.

> Be me, lurking > DEATH OF THIEF > May this finally be the day? > Open thread > Thief is still alive and well, it's just the thousandth thread where thief mains complain about how every skill deals 5K even when they invest 3 traitlines in defensive utilities [https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/baldmemes/images/c/cb/Badman.png/revision/latest?cb=20160304173519](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/baldmemes/images/c/cb/Badman.png/revision/latest?cb=20160304173519)