Kovu.7560

With the change to that rune any feature that grants benefits every time barrier is granted would have _required_ an ICD. Necros just happened to be the profession with that trait. With the rune its still basically a condition peel every 5 seconds with no thought as an adept trait. Problem is, with so many tools to activate the trait once its off cooldown via small amounts of heal stealing, it'll be difficult to reliably time it to use the cleanse on allies.

I wish they would've chosen this road of trait ICDs for Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow instead of continually nerfing the availability and potency of Celestial Avatar into obscurity in an attempt to combat those traits.

~ Kovu

Faster tiers and decrease relinks to 3

I would be interested in hearing build ideas on how for rangers to get the most out of the Antitoxin rune (i.e. frequent small cleanses).

Speed sounds pretty darn potent, too. It sounds like it'll turn swiftness into a baby superspeed (mostly effective while in combat). This is great as rangers have lots of swiftness and practically no superspeed. Though the same is true of other professions, as well.

~ Kovu

And unbuilt. Casuals.

If there's a 5-10 minute delay on regaining pip progression once reentering wvw I imagine the end result will be around the same as the previous system. It takes about that much time for the average player to reach T3. Only now players won't "pip down".

A good change that'll hopefully cut down on the AFKers.

~ Kovu

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > or if the DE managed to stealth, *briskly walk the other direction*.

> > Or use a single leap. Soulbeast can spec for several. Won't take much to break combat unless the thief decides to follow while in stealth with low health, which is a risky play in its own right and will probably require some cooldown investments. Deadeye seems to be the one thief spec I usually _can_ outrun on Soulbeast. Those always in stealth don't seem quite as fast -- though I haven't played a Deadeye so I can't speak to builds.

> > I don't know. I'm not having the same issues as Umbra. All I can post is my experience. It sounds kind of newbish but longbow 4+2 solves a lot of my deadeye problems in 1v1 scenarios. (Group fights to be fair are a different beast; Soulbeasts, like any another ranger can be trained down pretty quickly compared to other professions.)

> >

> > ~ Kovu

>

> following in stealth with low life is not risky as you usually dont expect to get hit after a couple of seconds and leaving the initial area. and you either have traits/food to regen or use your heal skill while following. **risky is only opening again from stealth while on low life**, but you can stalk till you are full again.

Sorry, that's more along the lines of what I meant. From what I've noticed a deadeye is not permanently stealthed _and_ keeping pace with a mobility spec'd soulbeast -- at least not without breaking stealth to attack occasionally -- and the ranger has options for healing and damage mitigation as well. (two SoS's, blocks, merged pet damage mitigation, high uptime protection, a bit of stealth, evasion frames and mobility... Pick your poison.)

This is weird, I feel like I'm defending thief here which isn't right because I feel both DD and even core Acro are a tad overtuned -- I suppose my point is that in personal experience playing mainly ranger, DE is less threatening to deal with as a SB than other thief builds. I've never been one shot (or a series of shots in quick succession) by a DE while using zerk gear and marauder trinkets -- I can't say the same about other specs.

~ Kovu

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> or if the DE managed to stealth, *briskly walk the other direction*.

Or use a single leap. Soulbeast can spec for several. Won't take much to break combat unless the thief decides to follow while in stealth with low health, which is a risky play in its own right and will probably require some cooldown investments. Deadeye seems to be the one thief spec I usually _can_ outrun on Soulbeast. Those always in stealth don't seem quite as fast -- though I haven't played a Deadeye so I can't speak to builds.

I don't know. I'm not having the same issues as Umbra. All I can post is my experience. It sounds kind of newbish but longbow 4+2 solves a lot of my deadeye problems in 1v1 scenarios. (Group fights to be fair are a different beast; Soulbeasts, like any another ranger can be trained down pretty quickly compared to other professions.)

~ Kovu

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

> > >

> > > That's doesn't conform with my experience. Had a situation where a permanently stealthed deadeye was chasing me (soulbeast) for 5+ min, and despite me spamming my leaps i couldn't get away. I was permanently in combat (and marked), that's why i know the thief was always there, even if i couldn't see him. And after several minutes and two failed burst attempts he oneshot me with a Binding Shadow + 21k DJ combo. Fun stuff ... not.

> > >

> > > Old ghost thief had much more counterplay than this.

> >

> > If you were playing Soulbeast the solution was to turn around and breathe on Mr. 21k. Reveal them and put them on the defensive, if they're forced to back off you don't even have to chase -- you can break combat and leave.

> >

> > They're annoying, but pretty much any Mirage build (yes, even power) is much much worse. You can't 'unblockable' evasion frames.

> >

> > ~ Kovu

>

> 1. I didn't had Sic 'Em slotted and couldn't swap it in because i was permanently in combat.

> 2. Sic 'Em can't reveal a stealthed target, it requires a visible target in order to be applied.

> 3. Even if i had Sic 'Em slotted and if i managed to land it - it would do absolutely nothing, because the deadeye had Shadow Meld ...

>

> Mirage can't perma evade, so it is possible to fight them back.

>

Then camp your longbow, wait for them to shoot you and reveal themselves, knock them back and unload a rapid fire (it follows stealth). Best case scenario they're dead because they invested in offense. Worst case scenario they took a bunch of damage and are forced to back off. If you don't think you can kill them use that opportunity to swap to greatsword, break combat and leave. Mirages, on the other hand are obscene with their evasion and reflection uptime, to say nothing about their stealthing and mobility which isn't half bad, either.

If you're going to tell me you use neither Sic 'Em _nor_ longbow I can't really help you -- you don't counter Deadeye with melee. (Well, you can try but you're at a disadvantage.)

Good heavens, invisible does **not** mean invulnerable.

~ Kovu

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

>

> That's doesn't conform with my experience. Had a situation where a permanently stealthed deadeye was chasing me (soulbeast) for 5+ min, and despite me spamming my leaps i couldn't get away. I was permanently in combat (and marked), that's why i know the thief was always there, even if i couldn't see him. And after several minutes and two failed burst attempts he oneshot me with a Binding Shadow + 21k DJ combo. Fun stuff ... not.

>

> Old ghost thief had much more counterplay than this.

If you were playing Soulbeast the solution was to turn around and breathe on Mr. 21k. Reveal them and put them on the defensive, if they're forced to back off you don't even have to chase -- you can break combat and leave.

They're annoying, but pretty much any Mirage build (yes, even power) is much much worse. You can't 'unblockable' evasion frames.

~ Kovu

Anyone can post a list. Here's mine, easy to hard:

Necromancer-Guardian-Warrior > Ranger > Mesmer > Revenant > Thief > Engineer-Elementalist

That said, top tier rangers take a lot of skill to play, as does sustaining well on non heal-bunker Druids. Its only a "pug class" because (like warrior) you can get mroe out of it as a brand new player. The list I posted is what I consider the average result based on average player input.

~ Kovu

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

>

> > With the same limitations as gliding and with some minor adjustments to areas where it could be exploited, I could see mounts playing a part in wvw.

> > I suspect they're just holding off until closer to the next expansion, like they did with gliding previously.

> >

> > ~ Kovu

>

> Minor adjustments?

> No, I'm afraid the work involved in making mounts WvW usable would be either massive or make them almost useless. What use would a Springer or Jackal have besides invalidating walls and gates? Does the blob really need a movement buff from Raptors and Bugs? Would people not have a caniption when defenders can use their griffon to bypass the blockade around a keep or tower? Remember, they moved Ogrewatch because it could be glided into.. And besides, alliances have already been stated as our Big Thing.

>

> Edit: forgot skimmer. Dem heels tho

You're certainly right in that there will be unforeseen necessary adjustments down the road based on exploits players find -- but I don't think it'll be all that much more than with gliding, so long as you can only use a mount in your team's own territory. Springers and Jackals would have limited use but I could see a few situations where they'd each be beneficial -- such as hopping on a Springer to bypass a raised ledge in your own territory, (like around the ruins to avoid having to go around, or over walls into structures you own to negate having to go through the front door). Jackals, well, Anet could introduce a few portals around the maps in convenient locations to help with getting around the maps a bit more quickly, usable only by the team that owns the area of course. I haven't actually unlocked the bug yet (I need to catch up on my pve) but the bonus speed from a raptor seems fine out of combat, and the mounts are easy enough to blow up if you want to gank someone. Using a griffon to bypass a blockade is in most situations no more efficient than trying to glide past and significantly more dangerous as they're easier to blow out of the sky than you are.

Mounts would mostly just be a "time save" mechanic, and I don't see a problem with that. If your zerg is losing the fight, hopping on a raptor to get back a bit sooner after dying won't save your team the fight. If there are concerns about the potential damage to players mounts can cause, nerf the damage.

Its not like they'd have to redo all of the maps in their entirety just to accommodate their introduction.

~ Kovu

The people who say "Mounts should never be in WvW" are likely the people who feel gliding should never have been introduced -- and it hasn't exactly broken the game mode.

With the same limitations as gliding and with some minor adjustments to areas where it could be exploited, I could see mounts playing a part in wvw.

I suspect they're just holding off until closer to the next expansion, like they did with gliding previously.

~ Kovu

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"geist.4126" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"Optimator.3589" said:

> > > > Shouldn't be able to enter stealth while in combat. It's that simple. Whatever its other failings, WoW handled stealth far better than this game.

> > >

> > > How many classes run stealth in wow?

> >

> > Same number as in GW2. Mesmer/Thief vs. Rogue/Feral. An engineer or ranger isn't exactly running stealth just because they have one skill that stealthes them for a short time.

>

> Do you even play GW2? ~~Rangers~~ Druids have more stealth than mesmers.

Fixed. (And I'd take any Mesmer spec over Druid for roaming, these days.)

~ Kovu

**"Today, on A&E's Hoarders!"**

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> FA and TC together please so we can have all the furries in one place to murr and purr all over the BLs.

Only downside is the extra incentive for the opposing servers to never come outside of their walls. Nobody will want to fight the (hair)ball of death.

~ Kovu

Everyone has their own idea, I'll throw in mine.

Remove the ability to stack stealth, except for blasting smoke fields. If you attempt to use a skill (that isn't a blast finisher on a smoke field) granting stealth while already stealthed the duration of existing stealth will not increase. Perhaps tweak stealth duration a little bit on certain thief abilities to compensate, (probably not even needed.)

I can't say I'm fond of Shadow Meld, reveals aren't _that _common and generally require some sort of investment (usually a utility skill) on the part of the user.

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> while this would be a deserved nerf to thieves, it would be a harmful nerfs to mesmers.

You do realize certain mesmers builds are generally considered _more_ broken than stealth stacking thieves, right? Admittedly its not the stealth that breaks them, but I'm just throwing that out there.

~ Kovu

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> when/

While playing on my ranger.

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> /where

In wvw.

To be fair though sometimes obstructions happen during a fight or some event that has the player's full attention in such a way they don't think to hit the print screen button at that very moment. As well, it may only happen once or twice during a key moment that's not easy for the player to replicate (such as the specific position of NPC guards or enemy players you're trying to shoot, or I guess teleport around.) I'm not thinking about pressing my print screen button at every moment, nor do I record videos. Sometimes a description is all we have.

That said, I will make an effort to capture situations where I can.

~ Kovu

~~I actually like the idea.

Having upgrades like increased detection range, being able to detect stealthed characters and being able to detect even those who aren't within line of sight (like within a tower) would be neat options. Though it would only be personal detection, for obvious reasons.

I'd also be in favor of a detection trap, that once triggered marks all enemies within 1k radius for 10 seconds, or something.

Heck, they could even tack a (personal) mark effect onto reveals. None of these ideas would obsolete sentries & watchtower.

Quality idea, OP.~~

~ Kovu

Edit: It _was_ a good idea until they introduced the "Detected!" debuff. I have a different opinion now.

Promoting more effective havoc? I'm in favor. I've been taking a bit of a break but I'll probably poke my nose in that week.

~ Kovu

Sounds like a chair-itable idea. =)

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

>

> We might as well give up then as soon as the shield gen is built I guess, too many scary people out there.

>

Or you can throw an unblockable disabler and not do dumb stuff like putting yourself in a position to likely be killed.

~ Kovu

> @"Shining One.1635" said:

> Stat Combos by themselves are not the issue. The issue is certain stat combos combined with certain builds. For example, one shouldn't be able to put all of their points into offensive attributes but still be able to build for high survivability.

Agreed.

Its not a coincidence the roaming build/spec people complain the most about also happens to be the one with the largest toolshed of defenses not tied to their stats.

~ Kovu

If people are seriously concerned about karma training, introduce some sort of diminishing returns for capturing the same types of structures in quick succession, reduce the rewards for flipping paper walled objectives, reward more to both attackers **and** defenders for _longer_ sieges/defenses and have objectives that don't take any damage during a skirmish tick for fewer points.

As cheesy as shield gens have been for attackers, 15 arrow carts in difficult to reach positions behind a wall is pretty cheesy on the defending side of things, too. I'm glad they both got the nerf hammer.

~ Kovu

Berserker. Its obviously no-skill mode.

~ Kovu

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> Sure, if you decide to stand right above the zerg.....

> Or you could pre target the shield gen, jump down the wall to the side, off load your damage, run away.

> You have unblockable 1500-1800 range afterall with tools to escape easier than most classes.

When you put yourself in combat and there's a group of 20+ likely containing at least some of thieves, mesmers, warriors and other rangers you had better hope there's a gate/portal nearby or a safe ledge to glide off of. Moreover, one burst won't destroy a shield gen and they'll be expecting you the second time.

I'll stick with unblockable disablers.

~ Kovu