Kovu.7560

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> The shield gen changes look good, didn't know it would be possible not to put domes on other shield gens lol, (rangers you have one job and that's kill shield gens!), lets see how that plays out.

Rangers will still get murdered if they stand on the edge of a wall to shoot a shield gen. The _real_ benefit is if unblockable effects will work in tandem with siege disablers. If that's the case the in-a-small-area setup of x/x/x/shield-gen/shield-gen will get shaken up. (Though it already will if shield gens can no longer overlap each other with their bubbles.)

~ Kovu

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

>

> >

> > And yet, the professional athlete's that don't win still get paid. (albeit less in some sports.) Of course they're not going to speak like that to the media and most are under contract.

> Yes, but they don't get a gold medal for finishing last place.

>

Gold medal? Last place? that's massively hyperbolic -- Neither does anyone here. Also completely sidestepped my point (in that athletes still get _paid_). Pips don't make you Legendary.

> @"skillze.7689" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > > @"skillze.7689" said:

> > >

> > > How many professional athlete's do you know that say im not doing that because i don't get a big enough reward for competing.

> >

> > And yet, the professional athlete's that don't win still get paid. (albeit less in some sports.) Of course they're not going to speak like that to the media and most are under contract.

>

> They dont do it for money they do it because its what they enjoy doing. even none paid people still do it because they enjoy it. all you are trying to say is that in some way shape or form they still get the thrill because of the reward. That is completely false and by saying that you are just another person in the leaderboards for just the rewards and not the thrill of being the best.

>

> The more you say u need to be paid off to enjoy the thrill of besting the best shows to me that you are just like the other pve pip farmers

>

Whether someone _enjoys_ doing something, playing sports at a high level, playing a semi-competitive gamemode in an online game, working at mcdonalds -- whatever -- it doesn't change the fact that they do it _to get paid_ (with fake rewards or otherwise). For a lot of people the incentive to _play_ **any** gamemode is the rewards. Without that incentive, see my previous post about the gamemode dying. So yeah, the reward _is an incentive_. Not getting anything out of your hour because lost several matches in a row will kill your enthusiasm to continue or return later, not encourage you to get better. It doesn't even matter if its your fault or if you had awful/uncoordinated teammates. There's a reason that raids grant a few pity Shards/Crystals to players who unable to progress the content.

That said, you can call me names all you want, I will never support changes that discourage general participation. Now rewarding a little extra to players who progress through higher tiers, or who contribute to a match more? I would sign onto that.

~ Kovu

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > > @"skillze.7689" said:

> > >

> > > How many professional athlete's do you know that say im not doing that because i don't get a big enough reward for competing.

> >

> > And yet, the professional athlete's that don't win still get paid. (albeit less in some sports.) Of course they're not going to speak like that to the media and most are under contract.

> >

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > If people play only for the pips and rewards, then they are not really there to pvp. If removing the rewards for losses somehow drove away those players, perhaps it may not be the worst thing ever. I mean if they are not there for the victory and glory first, then it's not a real loss for the competitive community.

> >

> > Since the actual competitive players are there "for the victory and glory first" and the casuals "are not really there to pvp" perhaps removing all rewards from ranked except for a some form of "I'm the best" title would be the correct move, and all of the mechanical rewards can be shifted to unranked, or removed entirely. That'll weed out the players that're just there for the pips.

> > ... That's a truly awful idea. Don't do it. I'm just showing how hypocritical some of you can be and how quick some tunes would change.

> >

> > I'm not saying there shouldn't be an incentive for winning, but being awarded _nothing_ despite participating would seriously be dumb, and would encourage finger pointing in game and on this forum even more than this gamemode already does.

> >

> > ~ Kovu

>

> Participation trophies are not good for enhancing a competitive mindset.

> If you know that know matter what you do, you will get something, then why put out 100% all the time?

>

> You know what you get for participating and losing in the game? -11+ points off your rating. For your lackluster efforts you get to see your rating decrease.

>

> The incentive is to try hard, and learn from mistakes when you lose. Not chase repeatable byzantanium chests.

>

>

Participation trophies are good for increasing the number of players that might even be interested in playing this gamemode. Part of the reason a lot of people migrated away from wvw is because the rewards compared to the other gamemodes were absolute garbage (not -as- bad now). Like it or not, pvp cannot be maintained without those "casual" players.

Now that said, I'm all for systems that reward you _more_ for performing better, but removing some semblance of forward progression in a losing effort, especially in a _team_ game, would generate a lot more animosity and discourage "casual" players from even playing in the first place. They would no longer participate and the gamemode would literally die. It would be comparable to wvw forever losing all of the players not dedicated wvw guilds.

If there are people in this game who put in less effort, basically screwing their team, that's an issue unrelated. The rest of the team shouldn't suffer.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Not chase repeatable byzantanium chests.

I honestly couldn't speak to that, I only do 1-2 matches/day.

~ Kovu

> @"skillze.7689" said:

>

> How many professional athlete's do you know that say im not doing that because i don't get a big enough reward for competing.

And yet, the professional athlete's that don't win still get paid. (albeit less in some sports.) Of course they're not going to speak like that to the media and most are under contract.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> If people play only for the pips and rewards, then they are not really there to pvp. If removing the rewards for losses somehow drove away those players, perhaps it may not be the worst thing ever. I mean if they are not there for the victory and glory first, then it's not a real loss for the competitive community.

Since the actual competitive players are there "for the victory and glory first" and the casuals "are not really there to pvp" perhaps removing all rewards from ranked except for a some form of "I'm the best" title would be the correct move, and all of the mechanical rewards can be shifted to unranked, or removed entirely. That'll weed out the players that're just there for the pips.

... That's a truly awful idea. Don't do it. I'm just showing how hypocritical some of you can be and how quick some tunes would change.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be an incentive for winning, but being awarded _nothing_ despite participating would seriously be dumb, and would encourage finger pointing in game and on this forum even more than this gamemode already does.

~ Kovu

Social Awkwardness week.

Make it happen, Anet.

~ Kovu

@"Puddin Cheeks.8539" I sent you an invite to EA in game and let them know you're alive. I don't get online much this time of week between work & other obligations but I did see your mail. Welcome back to the game.

~ Kovu

> @"Puddin Cheeks.8539" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > Puddin Cheeks. I know that account name.

> > Were you in Elephant Ambush back in the day?

> >

> > ~ Kovu

>

> Yup, that be me. I am curious if any of the old crew is still around. I'm most likely booted from the guild by now since I just quit all of a sudden back in 2013.

The guild has undergone a lot of pruning. I doubt it'd be the guild you remember. Most of the people who were in the guild the first year are no longer there/active. Moreover, while it still technically exists and has a guild hall with all of the trimmings the majority of its members interact more on discord than in the game itself. Most have moved on/play infrequently. Its not a dedicated wvw guild anymore -- hasn't been for about three years. If you've been removed you can send this account a mail message in game I'll send you an invite the next time I'm in game and get you information for the discord. For what its worth, the glory days of EA were pretty much the first year of the game.

As for the game itself, it has changed a lot. Some changes for the better, some not so much. You could certainly ask for opinions, I'm sure everyone else in this thread has one for you. I, unfortunately do not still have an account on DB. The majority of EA left that trainwreck of a server in 2014. A few of us still have accounts there, however. The best thing to do would be just to hop in and see the changes for yourself.

~ Kovu

edit- oh, and don't transfer your account unless you're REALLY dedicated. They'll be introducing a new alliances system soon™ that will make servers obsolete.

Puddin Cheeks. I know that account name.

Were you in Elephant Ambush back in the day?

~ Kovu

I also don't feel like It should scroll down while you're in combat.

I feel a little cheated when I have to choose between throwing a fight or re-entering the que. >.>

~ Kovu

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > I was on my ranger and got placed with a pair of thieves and a pair of mesmers the other day in pvp. I was thrown off by the matchmaking until I found the other team had a similar comp. Not going to lie, despite all of the (completely justified) hate mirages get that was the funnest pvp match I've had in recent weeks. Certain other professions have the ability to bunker up waay too much and watching things (including myself) explode left and right was downright hilarious. Even the losing team had a blast. We won 504-406, but only because we got a tranquility cap almost uncontested.

> >

> > That said, the "perfect" comp is probably some combination of necromancers, warriors and guardians. ... and maybe mesmers. You know. Standard protoss deathball stuff. Unless we're roaming, then I'll take a decent thief or mesmer on my team any day of the week.

> >

> > ~ Kovu

>

> you do realise that this thread is about wvw and not pvp? he posted in the wvw forum and said 20-30 ppl not 5man pvp

>

> id say for each group 1-2guards, a power rev, 1-2 scourges and a warrior/ele throw in 1 or 2 mesmer for the whole zerg to get some veil invis and graviwells

> thats for a public zerg

>

> guildzergs are a different story (15-20ppl)

> usually just 1 guard each group

> 1 or 2 staff thiefes for stealth blasts and heavy burst dmg, maybe an engi for reveal and focus or heal purposes

Yes, I realize. Hence the second part of my post. Guardians, necromancers and warriors still win the day. Mesmers are also useful.

~ Kovu

I was on my ranger and got placed with a pair of thieves and a pair of mesmers the other day in pvp. I was thrown off by the matchmaking until I found the other team had a similar comp. Not going to lie, despite all of the (completely justified) hate mirages get that was the funnest pvp match I've had in recent weeks. Certain other professions have the ability to bunker up waay too much and watching things (including myself) explode left and right was downright hilarious. Even the losing team had a blast. We won 504-406, but only because we got a tranquility cap almost uncontested.

That said, the "perfect" comp is probably some combination of necromancers, warriors and guardians. ... and maybe mesmers. You know. Standard protoss deathball stuff. Unless we're roaming, then I'll take a decent thief or mesmer on my team any day of the week.

~ Kovu

> @"Aiga.3075" said:

> > @"neven.3785" said:

> > The only thing that mag has going for it is their carebear free team chat. Everywhere else is as PC as a Facebook mom's group

>

> You haven't seen FA team chat then.

>

>

I have two accounts on FA and one on Mag. I keep that mag account _precisely for_ the team chat. Its too good to pass up.

~ Kovu

Have any of you played Fire Emblem 10?

Remember how units in that game promote twice instead of once resulting in a third tier?

Remember how those overpowered third tier units were off the charts in the categories they specialized in? I.E. promoted knights could not be damaged, high strength axe users one shot everything (har Haar), units with abilities that proc'd sometimes based off their stats _always proc'd_ and units with high speed/luck could be hit precisely 0% of the time?

Third tiers were a bad idea. They didn't work with the core mechanics. That's why they haven't had a Fire Emblem game like that since.

Same thing applies here. When the game came out in 2012 the professions were meticulously balanced around the core mechanics of the game. Lots of basic game elements such as hit point pools, dodging, the number of skills you have access to, the speed at which your character moves among others haven't been touched since day 1. However, because of a lot of skill changes, specialization additions, core mechanic changes, character abilities/traits and changes to stats among other changes (such as profession "balance" and sigil/rune changes/additions) the basic game elements don't interact with the professions as they are now in a way similar to how they interacted in 2012. The game was a lot more balanced back then and the extremes (burst and sustain) weren't nearly as lopsided both ways. As a result the game was, on the whole, funner for everyone.

So we need to take a step back. Obviously some professions more than others (I have my opinions on that, but I'll save it for another thread) but on the whole everything both on the offensive end of things and on the defensive need to be toned down so that everyone feels a little more effective in their fights whilst never being _too_ potent.

There's probably an expression (I mean aside from "power creep") for the last three paragraphs, but I don't know it. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯

Time to revisit some old Extra Credits videos.

~ Kovu

I mean.

I like these ideas. =)

~ Kovu

Someone's going to get PETA in here.

~ Kovu

Defenders on their home BL frequently have to deal with 2v1 scenarios. Grant the home team an advantage in that _if they own an objective_ on their own map the enemy players have no downstate in that region. Only the home team gets this advantage and only on their home map. No change in ebg. If people are concerned that that's _too much_ of an advantage for home bl defenders, perhaps no downstate deaths don't cause rallies.

Or tie it to the ruins. If your team owns the ruins, enemies have no downstate on that map. Regardless, a rotation would not be a good idea.

~ Kovu

> @"Optimator.3589" said:

> would be a hoot for a weekend. Maybe not a whole week.

Many of us have weekend obligations that don't allow us time to play at that time. A lot of people go away on weekends, many work weekends, some have family obligations -- just to name a few. That's why a lot of people were irritated by that double wxp weekend event a few weeks back with only three days notice, and glad that last week's event ran the _whole_ week.

Run events for a week, so everyone can participate.

> @"Straegen.9534" said:

> Remember deployable cannons? I like the change of pace weeks even if they aren't my favorite game modes.

Pretty much this. I'm always in favor of small temporary changes to help keep things fresh. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with next.

~ Kovu

We haven't heard anything in recent months.

Morever, I don't even remember the last time a dev posted in this subforum. It's been a while. I think it was that thread about siege updates, or possibly the thread asking the players for feedback on smaller updates to the gamemode. They may still be working through that.

You have to remember they have a finite amount of resources and pve will generally take priority as that's where the majority of the players are.

So basically you can assume that its a while off before they tell you otherwise. I doubt they'll post here on Tuesday saying "shit's live on Friday." Something that major, they'll give decent notice.

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> Maybe you guys should like... read the very first post?

And the second! <3

~ Kovu

I do feel the minimum wxp player deaths can grant should be increased.

Single digit wxp gains against other people is kind of silly.

~ Kovu

> @"Tom.5914" said:

> not an option, I would feel bad if I would play this idiotic class

I don't know, then...

Thief maybe?

~ Kovu

> @"Tom.5914" said:

> So what class ist best to kill mirages ?

Another mirage.

~ Kovu

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> and why should RAID players get nicer looking stuff?

Because there is (technically) nothing restricting you from doing raids and the developers want to add rewards unique to each major aspect of the game so that the player base is encouraged to dabble in more than one element of the game. As a predominately wvw player it does irk me a little, but I can understand it from a development standpoint.

My irritation on the matter is geared more towards the elitism associated with raids' closed-circle mentality of the playerbase rather than requiring the gamemode itself for the flashy equipment.

For example, I don't pvp a lot but don't consider myself gated out of pvp legendaries as I do casually pvp on occasion. Sure, I'll get it slower than the next guy but I will get it. Its no different than someone who only completes silver in wvw each week. As someone who frequently completes diamond I'll get the nifty wvw stuff faster than them, but they'll eventually get it too.

Raids are different in that I _do_ explicitly feel excluded from the gamemode and its community as a whole because I don't have a dedicated raid guild and can't put aside a specific time to play every week to run as part of a coordinated group. Which is a damn shame, I am interested in the content.

tl;dr you think the wvw community is cancer? try the raids community.

~ Kovu

edit- Oh, and Hesacon is right about the compromise bit. As wvw players we should be happy we have access to the mechanical benefits of legendary gear. Heavens know we _need_ it more than the pve/pvp'ers.

Agony as an infusion is an awful mechanic, the developers have admitted as much. However, agony was the original infusion before the slot played any mechanical role, long before masteries were ever a thing.

The devs have admitted agony as it is implemented is not ideal, but in their eyes there's no way to alter it in such a way that infusion slots could be utilized for other purposes without hurting the people who've invested heavily in fractals for their high-end agony resistance. I can think of several ideas, but that's sort of beside the point.

As far as wvw is concerned I wish slots for wvw-related infusions were separate from those potentially dedicated to agony. Outright. Easy fix. Though it could clutter the information boxes on gear even more.

~ Kovu

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > I have never reached those numbers on a single long range shot on my full zerk soulbeast. On rare occasion if the planets and stars align I'll hit a thief for 9k -- and that was before the might rotation nerf. There would have to be some pretty extreme scenarios in play for those kinds of numbers to even be possible. Don't expect that to happen to you on a regular basis.

> >

> > ~ Kovu

> >

> > edit- Also, if you were popping in and out of combat those attacks must've happened in a timeframe well over the 10 second duration of sic 'em. Without the extra burst potential of sic' em I doubt those numbers are attained normally at all. Something is definitely amiss.

>

> Few things to take in consideration was this person booned up? Did he have a tower or such too boost stats was OP in a downed state and had 25 stacks of vuln? Was there a major bloodlust involved too? Ad that with a pve build it's seams possible, in a roaming or small scale deff not

>

>

>

That is why I said if the planets and stars align.

Don't expect to actually run _into_ those situations, or be able to reliably set them up. There was (obviously) some extreme scenario in play.

~ Kovu

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Evolute.6239" said:

> > Both SBI and FA have 86 thousand kills this week, and YB has 55k. When you add up K+D, FA has 161k, SBI has 151k, and YB has 127k. Those numbers dwarf T1 completely.

>

> Inb4 "that just means the t2 servers have larger populations and better coverage than the t1 servers they just don't care about the game as much or try as hard as we do"

And yet, whenever any of these T1 servers fall to T2 their activity numbers "dwarf" the other T2 servers.

I wonder why that is. (We know why that is.)

~ Kovu