Shirlias.8104

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Again, those comparisons aren't relevant; they will always be unequivalent in someone's eyes. The simple fact that they are all fundamentally different makes those comparisons nonsensical. Anet can ignore differences in game modes because there isn't any sensible way to equate them. They aren't ignoring casual players ... I'm casual ... I could get legendary armor if I wanted to.

Let's consider a casual player which can play 1h per day during the week and doesn't like nor WvW and SPvP, ok?

How could you, casual player, achieve through pve tasks your legendary armor?

You are saying that as casual you could, but what I would like to underline is that you can't by playing PvE ( unless you raid ).

We do agree that casuals can achieve their armor if they dedicate part of their time to WvW or SPvP ( SPvP is way better imho, if you compare the time spent ).

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> That's just a twist on what defines game mode and you know it. Defining OW as a game mode a separate from PVE to justify a leg armor path is a thinly veiled ruse ... but GL with that.

You should face the reality and compare what is needed to raid and what to do wvw and pvp.

And how many pve players raid ( or simply can allow themselves, because of time and playing hours, to get currencies from raid ).

If you have 30 min or even 1h per day, you won't be ever able to get your Armor by playing pve.

You are simply ignoring the differences between game modes, and the fact that the larger part of the community is composed by casual players.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> you're strategy here is flawed ... You're looking for a reason that justifies the current situation for how Legendary gear is obtained and when you can't find one or when you think you have a bunch of inconsistencies, you think that's an error that must be fixed.

It's not flawed, but a request.

The fact that they will consider giving all pve players the possibility to have their armor or not is up to us.

However it's not looking for a reason, but stating a fact.

Currencly not all game modes allow players to get legendary armors.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I don't get your point ... you should be able to make legendary armor with OW content because most (or all?) of the mats can be obtained in OW?

>

> I think you are ignoring the concept of legendary armor here.

I am saying that like legendary stuff, as weapons or even aurora ( trinket ), is avaible through OW.

Legendary armors are no different from any legendary items.

And if you check what is required in order to craft them, you will notice that it's all about the armor piece and the LI.

I don't get why legendary armors should be different from a legendary weapon or trinket, which are way longer to obtain ( if you care to explain ).

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I don't see how that change what I said ... ways to obtain gear isn't about balance. The idea that crafting materials for legendaries are available in OW seems like a really weak argument to make legendary armor available through OW content. Not sure if you noticed but not much in this game is about balance.

It's the opposite.

All is avaible in OW, except the armor piece and 1 specific currency.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Well, it doesn't ... gear of any sort isn't introduced to various parts of the game because of balance. Gear is linked to story, it has a concept ... this actually LIMITS how it can be obtained, not spread it out. Killing rabbits and completing hearts doesn't exactly instill 'legendary' in anyone, casual or not.

If you check the wiki you will notice that you need the same things a normal player ( OW or Fractal player ) can obtain.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor

Here you can see the difference between the 3 armors

1) The gift needed could be the one you get from exploration. The other is stuff you can have by playing the game OW

2) The second Gift currency could be something you get from meta events ( Once per day ). The other stuff is something every player can get from tp or all game modes.

3) The third gift could be the same for the Raid legendary armor ( since it needs nothing but OW meta events ). And because it is this way for raids, it could be the same for OW or fractals.

4) The armor piece could be purchased from fractals vendor or Pve vendors for a specific currency.

As you can see, there is definitely nothing linked to a specific game mode if you compare the crafting materials and the items an OW players can get.

They should fix it like they seems to have done with hacks ( only 1 per time, or else you'll get suspended for 3 months from spvp ).

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> The function doesn't determine where the armor is available.

It should instead, because gw2 is mainly for casuals, and because it's easy to get whatever the game mode you play, they should provvide a solo alternative for PvE too.

It's balance, and nothing else.

But here the point is:

> How could a legendary armor, with no particular skin, obtained through fractals or ow pve hurt you?

I disagree.

The armor itself should be avaible through different game modes, since it's a QoL item ( stats swapping, inventory space saving, Runes saving, etc... ).

What makes something rare here on GW2 is its skin.

So, players will be able to get their QoL features by playing the game how they like, but if the will ever want a specific skin, they will have to unlock it through a specific game mode, achievement, shop, or whatever.

That said, let's be honest and do not consider raid a hard task, please.

It's a group of 10 person trying a meta setup and learning how to faceroll, the selling it from 1 to 5 people.

It's offensive to hear that somebody considers it a real challenge ( when what you need is time and players ).

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Legendary armor isn't exclusive to raids though. It is already widely accessible.

That's not entirely true

* SPvP players can work towards their legendary armor by simply doing SPvP

* WvW players can work towards their legendary armor by simply doing WvW

* PvE players can work towards their legendary armor **ONLY** by doing raids.

Here's the problem.

There should be a more casual version ( because getting SPvP and WvW armor is possible by being afk doing nothing, or spamming games at will ) of it, regardless the skin ( which should remain something locked behind the raids ).

One for fractals and one for openworld pvers ( linked to events and metas ).

You silly guys... we all know that mesmers are going to dominate s11 ;)

**Here imho the point is that Evade could be part of the problem but not the problem**

We do have many skills which **TRADE DAMAGE FOR EVADE/INVUL/BLOCK**

I am not saying that the current amount is right, but just that it is nice to have the choice to trade all dmg for defense.

We do have **3 tier of skills**

**TIER 1 SKILLS**: which grants invul but disable all your damage for the whole duration

* the normal dodge ( not upgraded )

* Shield stance ( warrior )

* Elixir S ( engineer )

* Crystal Hibernation ( Revenant )

* Renewed focus ( guardian )

* etc...

Then we have **TIER 2 SKILLS** which has dodge/evade + damage.

* Flanking strike/Disablind Shot ( thief )

* Whirlwind Attack/Full Counter ( warrior )

* Unrelenting assault ( revenant )

* Blurred frenzy ( mesmer )

* Burning speed ( elementalist )

* Swoop ( ranger )

* etc...

And at last, **TIER 3 SKILLS** which allows you to be invul while using all your abilities.

* Mirage Cloak ( mesmer ) and any crystal you step into.

* Distortion ( mesmer )

* Endure pain ( warrior ) and it's passive version

* Signet of Stone ( ranger ) and it's passive version

* Obsidian Flesh ( elementalist )

* etc...

I am up for 2 modifies:

* **abilities which grant invul while allowing you to use skills needs to go, or converted into TIER 1 invul**

* **Skills which has evade as part of the damage could be reworked in order to remove the evade**

But since there are not so many per class ( thief, and currently mirage because of cloak, apart ) they could leave 1 evade/damage skill per class.

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > None of that takes ages

> >

> > That's the point.

> > And the break wouldn't that long to let dev forget what he was working on ( because he has just to modify a value).

> >

> > And among all the possibily QoL, this would be probably one of the faster one.

>

> Except that, while they're messing around with stopping you from selling items by mistake, they're not fixing the Mount Maestrom bug with the Mastery being out in space, and unable to be interacted with. There were 10 people there last night when I was there that were adversely affected by that, and it blocks progression, as opposed to "oops, I have to buy that back". It's an extreme waste of time when you stop to consider that a method to prevent accidental sales is already in game, but you don't want to use it?

We can easily agree that there are priorities.

Bugs have the priority over QoL modifies.

Materialistic rewards were introduced because the SPvP and WvW playerbase were not so large.

I do agree that ppl should play in order to have fun, but in years of MMO i happened to see that mmo players are compulsive creatures unable to play for fun, and instead people which need a reward

That's why the reward tracks, legendary armors, legendary backpack, ascended equipment, etc...

However, the current situation is this.

* The current WvW will go soon.

* It will be replaced with a new system based on alliance between guilds

* After have tested this new system, Devs will introduce different and probably new rewards.

* Because of rewards, players will try to organize themselves in order to get em in the easiet way, which for somebody includes cheating/exploiting.

I am simply trying to focus on eventually exploits/cheats which could be possible with the new system.

Where or even how are players going to wintrade? I am still not sure, but giving them more freedom could be the front entrance for more exploits.

So, I understand your point but i wonder... could it lead to any exploit?

Maybe a dedicated map with no rewards ( just to test group vs group ) could do the thing, but I doubt they will ever consider something like this.

Allowing players to chose enemies leads toward wintrading.

I mean i accept that there could be possibilities to prevent exploiting but, why should they risk?

You said almost and i confirmed that it's definitely faster vault than running ( also you have the evade on it, which has a 50% not to put you in combat, or taking damage, if attacked while moving ).

About SB, it is faster than vault ( even though i prefer vault because of more evasion ) but the dinstance covered needs time to enlarge its gap.

And also, even though it's easy to avoid sometimes i still fall for it, there's the shitty bug infiltrator arrow + dash which holds you on place.

Shortly, i chose to trade a little bit of my covered dinstance in favor of more evades, but even so the mesmer is able to catch up ( not sure with SB while in combat vs staff while not in combat, on a straight line ).

> @"thatdarnkatz.7168" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > (line breaks please)

> > >

> > > I couldn't find what you wanted this "rival system" to actually do ?

> >

> > WvW wintrade.

> >

>

> And what's the point of willing in WvW? Literally nothing, so no point in that. The point is to face off against people you like to have battles with.

They said that the reward will probably change, but first of all they have to test the new system.

So, with the current rewards could maybe be not useful to trade, but who knows about the new rewards.

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> Vault would of slowed you down. You can cover almost the same distance walking with swiftness then you can while using vault.

Definitely not.

It's like saying "Infiltrator arrow has 900 range right... unfortunately you still move toward the arrow, so it has only 700 range more or less".

Also 3 vault = 30 endurance back, which with normal regen = 1 extra dash.

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > Well, one reason to vote no might be the cost of changing up the system. We, the players, really have no idea what's involved, or why there is an item cost involved. It might use resources that could be spent on something more enjoyable. /shrug

> > >

> > > Should be as easy as changing a value in the item database. If that is more than 10 seconds of work per item Anet programmed something terribly wrong

> >

> > So, just off the top of your head, how many items are in the game? 100? 50? Is it, warning, meme in coming, over 9000? Because it's not changing one set of data, it's changing that set of data on every item in the game that it applies to. As someone that was an avid world builder/scripter in NWN, I can tell you that a simple change can have unforeseen consequences, such as the time BW did a patch to fix a VFX file, and it broke every locked door in my module that had a custom script to relock it. The two are totally unconnected, but that VFX patch forced a manual reset of all those doors. Fixing the base script didn't fix the issue, I had to go in and manually adjust them. I only had a hundred or so doors, can you imagine the kind of havoc something like that could raise in an MMO? Put your stuff in an invisible bag. I'm not even to 400 Tailoring yet, and I can make a 15 slotter. It does wonders for inventory management, for stuff I don't want to either sell, or even see when I'm in a store interface.

>

> I can answer that. There are roughly 60701 items in the game currently. 1110 of them are ascended armors of which 432 are already not sellable. There are 1077 ascended weapons of which 359 are already not sellable. Data was extracted via the Item API.

Thanks.

Could you also make an extraction for trinkets?

And also, do weapons/armors also include underwater equipment?

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > Where can I read more about what happened?

>

>

>

> most of it is on reddit

Thanks

Target and punishment made me laugh ( given the fact that the whole team knew about it, all players should have punished the same way ).

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> tl;dr the point is that it won't be the only low-priority, easy-to-change idea

And there we do agree.

> (plus, as others have pointed out, it might not be as universally helpful as imagined)

There was indeed somebody against it, but the reason provvided were all but logic ( expecially if compared to the annoying stuff related ).

* People who would cry for 4s the time they happen to loot a ring ( probably fractalers, the ones who have the main rings drop chance ).

* People suggesting to use invisible bags ( as many of us do already, I can easily affirm, but even so due to the inventory issues like 2h>1h/1h, it's a temporary solution setup from us, like a permanent extractor to avoid the legendary sigils swap ).

* Buyback ( this shouldn't need to be commented, because it's obvious that if the player notice it during the trade he manage to get the item back ).

Shortly, I do agree that given all the possible little fix it's not granted that one specific would be chosen, but also since now it is clear that there are no true reasons to be against this proposal ( even though I am still here, waiting for one ).

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > None of that takes ages

> >

> > That's the point.

> > And the break wouldn't that long to let dev forget what he was working on ( because he has just to modify a value)

>

> The point is it's a distraction. If you've watched folks working on enterprise code, you realize that they (and their managers) are confronted with dozens of such "easy" fixes/changes a day. If they accepted all of them, they wouldn't get a portion of the scheduled work completed.

>

> Imagine that answer questions was listed in your job description as 10% of your time. Easy, right? Now imagine that you're expected to manage that by answering a one-minute phone call every 10 minutes. At six calls per hour, that's still only 10% of your time, but it's hard to build any momentum towards any real work. It's not "hard;" it's distracting.

>

> And again, @"Shirlias.8104": I'm not against the change. I don't think it's the only way that ANet can help alleviate the issue and I'm not sure that I agree it's a high priority issue.

It's not a distraction.

You probably forget that they dedicate part of their time to little ( or even big ) QoL improvements, so this one would be just one of the very easy to deal with.

I can't say for sure, but I guess they don't have only 1 programmer.

And probably have part of the team ( or a sub team, who knows ) in charge for QoL stuff and minor fixes.

It's not that I don't want to recognize what you are saying, but to me you are overreacting a little ( in the sense that it won't necessarily be the big deal you expect ).

Where can I read more about what happened?

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> None of that takes ages

That's the point.

And the break wouldn't that long to let dev forget what he was working on ( because he has just to modify a value).

And among all the possibily QoL, this would be probably one of the faster one.

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> (line breaks please)

>

> I couldn't find what you wanted this "rival system" to actually do ?

WvW wintrade.