Jugglemonkey.8741

I've always seen my teammates as meat shields; necessary to bring along, but expendable if it means getting what we came for. A support thief wouldn't make a lot of sense to me personally.

> @"kash.9213" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > I do not have high hopes for next xpac but one can dream. Can we please get support spec (bard!!??) for thief? I think it would make interaction between thief players and rest of the community more healthy. > > > > Pve: we would have alternative to straight dps, BT and kick from raid/fractal group. > > > > WvW: spot in zergs -> less roamers -> less hate generated by getting killed by some sneaky one hit kamikaze. > > > > PvP: hey, we can teamfight, thief is not mandatory as decapper!? > > > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, i love thief, i love assassin like classes, always did and i am sure i am not the only one but it is also a fact that GW2 community hates assassins, with passion. We need alternatives outside of "rerolling". Mesmers got it, why not us? > > > > > > Sounds good but it would have to perform well in it's role to be enough of a draw. A bard could be fun, they could call it the Hype Bandit or something and the skills could be dance moves and the e-spec utilities could be jam out emotes that buff allies. > > > > Knowing our luck, it'll end up being a mime instead. > > If I can fight a group miming the Robot dance I'd consider it. . If it's based around stances, that's the offensive stance and the defensive stance is the "staying alive" dance, I'd take that lol

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > Inb4 OH Torch/Focus that nobody wants or plays, that will feature a gigabroken traitline that D/P will commandeer, and will thus cause more nerfs to core thief. ^ this, in a nutshell lol

> @"kash.9213" said: > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > I do not have high hopes for next xpac but one can dream. Can we please get support spec (bard!!??) for thief? I think it would make interaction between thief players and rest of the community more healthy. > > Pve: we would have alternative to straight dps, BT and kick from raid/fractal group. > > WvW: spot in zergs -> less roamers -> less hate generated by getting killed by some sneaky one hit kamikaze. > > PvP: hey, we can teamfight, thief is not mandatory as decapper!? > > > > Don't get me wrong, i love thief, i love assassin like classes, always did and i am sure i am not the only one but it is also a fact that GW2 community hates assassins, with passion. We need alternatives outside of "rerolling". Mesmers got it, why not us? > > Sounds good but it would have to perform well in it's role to be enough of a draw. A bard could be fun, they could call it the Hype Bandit or something and the skills could be dance moves and the e-spec utilities could be jam out emotes that buff allies. Knowing our luck, it'll end up being a mime instead.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"mtnjkbm.7452" said: > > > > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > > > > > @"mtnjkbm.7452" said: > > > > > > > @"knite.1542" said: > > > > > > > What changes would you suggest to balance this druid build, OP? > > > > > > > > > > > > Delete trailblazer stats from wvw for everyone/every class. Or dont delete them for the sake of build diversity (lol) but lower the stats by 50%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People would just switch to Dire or started mixing other stats to get still tanky af and spread condies left and right, it won't fix it in long run, sadly. > > > > > Condi cap need to come back to PvP and WvW or even better, prevent reapplication within x seconds of the same condi if it was cleansed or expired, so you won't get like 20 Torment stacks 1 second after you've cleansed 15 stacks. Another thing that must happen is to remove circus traits that do chain reactions like you use whatever skill x and it activates trait abc which have like whatever bleed which will activate another fgh trait which will apply blind and others. Not mentioning to give proper animations and bug fixes. > > > > > A-net should from the very beginning of the game make sure that condies would be supplementary damage/soft cc, not the main source of it. > > > > > > > > although i agree that only deleting trailblazer or gutting it wouldnt be enough, i dont think dire ar apothecary ect would achieve the same results since the buffed condi duration through trailblazer plays a big role in 20 torment stacks staying 20 for 5-10 seconds, or rapidly decreasing within 1-3 seconds and therefore not dealing the same ammount of dmg. > > > > to come back to OPs topic, i have no real problem with "circus traits" of any build besides druid entanglement myself. > > > > while condi herald might be one of the most oppressive builds in wvw roaming right now, u can just disengage if u realize what build he is running, and u dont have to keep fighting it. > > > > condi druid on the other hand wont let u come far with all his cc and okayish chase potential on staff. > > > > > > Uhm actually the biggest offender in condirev builds is this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Tormenting > > > > > > 50% extra torment duration plus heal whenever torment is applied with no icd. > > > > If you can avoid the weaponswap condis, dodge the pull and have cleansing sigils, you will generally be fine vs most condi revs as most are relying on the inability of the general playerbase to dodge AoE. If all else fails, play a condi DE and nuke them from out of their effective range. > Now *that* is something beside the point. Does condi revs ever die? Yes what a shocker. They do. > > Not that you're not both right. You are. Its not the condi on a condi rev thats the issue. Anyone can fight that condi - especially since he's relying on torment alone, not like a necro vomitting condis. > > Whats OP here is the rune heal in combination with that condi. Its not trailblazer that allows the condi rev to bunker to the max - its the *insane* healing. Deleting trailblazer - and dire for that matter - would do exactly zero to change that because you get zero to healing from trailblazer or dire. > > Now add a minstrel firebrand pocket healer on top. > Yes, that is a very good point. I was more addressing the "X has no counters NEEEERF" mentality that some people (not you) have, so my reply wasn't really a reply to you I guess (It was late when I posted, blame that lol). But yeah, the healing. I was running tormenting runes on a trailblazer DE at one point, and the heals from runes plus SA traits added up to around 2k per sneak attack. Not massive compared to Rev as their torment application is AoE, but it is definitely noticable when you have 16k base health and you start spamming dancing dagger in a group.

> @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"mtnjkbm.7452" said: > > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > > > @"mtnjkbm.7452" said: > > > > > @"knite.1542" said: > > > > > What changes would you suggest to balance this druid build, OP? > > > > > > > > Delete trailblazer stats from wvw for everyone/every class. Or dont delete them for the sake of build diversity (lol) but lower the stats by 50%. > > > > > > > > > > People would just switch to Dire or started mixing other stats to get still tanky af and spread condies left and right, it won't fix it in long run, sadly. > > > Condi cap need to come back to PvP and WvW or even better, prevent reapplication within x seconds of the same condi if it was cleansed or expired, so you won't get like 20 Torment stacks 1 second after you've cleansed 15 stacks. Another thing that must happen is to remove circus traits that do chain reactions like you use whatever skill x and it activates trait abc which have like whatever bleed which will activate another fgh trait which will apply blind and others. Not mentioning to give proper animations and bug fixes. > > > A-net should from the very beginning of the game make sure that condies would be supplementary damage/soft cc, not the main source of it. > > > > although i agree that only deleting trailblazer or gutting it wouldnt be enough, i dont think dire ar apothecary ect would achieve the same results since the buffed condi duration through trailblazer plays a big role in 20 torment stacks staying 20 for 5-10 seconds, or rapidly decreasing within 1-3 seconds and therefore not dealing the same ammount of dmg. > > to come back to OPs topic, i have no real problem with "circus traits" of any build besides druid entanglement myself. > > while condi herald might be one of the most oppressive builds in wvw roaming right now, u can just disengage if u realize what build he is running, and u dont have to keep fighting it. > > condi druid on the other hand wont let u come far with all his cc and okayish chase potential on staff. > > Uhm actually the biggest offender in condirev builds is this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Tormenting > > 50% extra torment duration plus heal whenever torment is applied with no icd. If you can avoid the weaponswap condis, dodge the pull and have cleansing sigils, you will generally be fine vs most condi revs as most are relying on the inability of the general playerbase to dodge AoE. If all else fails, play a condi DE and nuke them from out of their effective range.

> @"Super Hayes.6890" said: > > @"Raymond Lukes.6305" said: > > Hey everyone, > > I would like to give you all a quick update about world restructuring. It has been a few months since our last update, and we are happy to let you know that progress has been good. We have overcome a few major snags and bugs and this has put a few of our big goals in sight. > > # What am I working on? > > I am primarily working on World Restructuring with some of my time supporting the live game. These additional tasks include improvements for some live systems, addressing bugs and a bit of internal support for the team. I have worked on some QoL tasks such as removing participation decay outside of WvW. I hope that we soon will be able to announce some of the other things we have been working on. As I have discussed before, we are working on a live game, and so there are always a lot of moving parts. > > # What has been happening with World Restructuring? > > We spent some time since the July update working on breaking down the remaining backend tasks. I have been focusing on getting those things done. Presently, many of the pieces are working on their own, though some things are still outstanding. Once I have all the parts I will begin the work of stitching it all together. I want to stress that while there has been a lot of work done, and we have made some really good and exciting progress, we are still a ways out from the launch of World Restructuring and Alliances. > > > > One of the elements that currently is functional on the backend is the concept of WvW guilds and players being able to select a WvW guild. We test this using debug commands because none of the UI is in place, but the communication layers are there as well as the storage aspects of that data. This provides us with some of the data necessary for grouping people onto teams in the matchmaker. > > > > Speaking of the matchmaker, I have completed a very basic implementation of a matchmaker that will churn through a huge list of players grouped by WvW guild and then place them on teams while keeping team sizes even. There is still a lot to do with this to get it to something that handles all the cases we want, but the early work and numbers look very promising. > > > > We are taking a pragmatic approach to building and testing various parts of World Restructuring. We are already testing some of these systems in isolation using live data and the live environment. Using this method, we have already identified bugs and race conditions that would have been difficult to track down and fix with the whole system in place. > > > > There has not been a ton of work on the player front end. We continue to focus on getting the core architecture solid so we can build the frontend on a working foundation. Once work is underway and we have something more tangible on the frontend, we can start discussing how we want to show off the new shinies to everyone. > > # F.A.Q. > > What World Restructuring update would be complete without an FAQ section? > > > > **Is there an update on the Alliance (World Restructuring) system?** > > Yes, here it is! ;) > > > > **Can NA and EU players join the same Alliance and play WvW together?** > > No. The NA and EU still will be split and have their own teams. While it technically will be possible for a guild or alliance to have members in both NA and EU, the system places those players on teams in their own datacenter. > > > > **Will I need to buy an Expansion to get into an alliance?** > > No. > > > > **What about non-WvW groups that use their shard to influence map instance selection outside of WvW?** > > These players will be unaffected by this change. The system that chooses map instances does not consider shard. > > > > **How does the alliance system fix anything if people still will be able to transfer?** > > Currently, the plan is to change where we allow people to transfer, and to be more responsive to transfer restrictions for teams that are overpopulated. Some of the details of how this will work are in the original post about World Restructuring. > > > > **Will time zone imbalance still be an issue** > > It is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it. > > > > **Are only WvW play hours, not all play hours, considered in the population calculation?** > > Yes, we only use play hours in WvW when doing the population calculations. > > > > **How Many Alliances can be on a team?** > > There is not a clear answer here other than “however many there need to be.” The focus is on getting the population balanced and not specifically on limiting the number of alliances per team. > > > > **Are you planning to update the API?** > > Yes. There will need to be some updates to the API to support the new system. Beyond that, I do not have details. > > > > **Is repping a guild the same as selecting it as my WvW guild?** > > No, repping is independent from selecting your WvW guild. You **still** will be able to rep whatever guild you like in WvW without changing the world the system places you on. > > > > **What is next? What comes after World Restructuring?** > > Whoa now! We should not get ahead of ourselves. World Restructuring is only one of the irons we have in the fire so we are talking about things post World Restructuring. These are things we are not ready or able to discuss yet but we’ll update you when we have more things to relay. > > > > We would appreciate a simple yes or no on alliances still being developed. Dude hasn't commented on anything since March 2019, I doubt he's still here.

It's not surprising that the devs have changed their minds regarding thief balance, I mean, were any of the current devs even on the team two years ago?

There's an expac coming. That means everything that isn't part of the expac (by which I mean part of the stuff they want you to spend money on) is going to get nerfed repeatedly until the expac drops. It's happened every time, just part of the cycle at this point.

See that weapon you're holding? The pointy end goes in the other guy.

> @"Jilora.9524" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > > > > > I think most non rogue complain because there is no skill being invisible and fighting invisible things are no fun. Now most games you mention have some deterrent being in stealth usually a 50 percent speed reduction while stealthed. Gw2 this nonsense is just magnified. No speed reduction lots of stealth and if a rogue fails he can lose over and over and come back stealthed again until he wins so players will complain. Rogue always attract the same type player. The griefer who doesn't like to die and likes to spawn camp and in most games camp much lower levels to one shot. Players who get one shot or spawn camped or attacked from stealth always complain because for the most part there's nothing to counter not being able to see your opponent. Do you really think it's fun to get jumped out of nowhere die before you can react but if you don't die and start fighting and god forbid start to win then you get denied the kill because you run. Then multiple that in gw2 by 1000 times. Yeah players will complain. > > > > > Stealth is just a bad mechanic but like you said you can't make a mmo w/o one but I have yet to play one where stealth was fairly balanced and able to counter. > > > > > > > > I hear ya. But in those other mmo's the rogue's also dont have to continually use up their global skill resources to keep stealth uptime. I definitely agree stealth is a annoying mechanic to fight against and frustrating especially if one shots outa stealth are happening but managing ur global resources while using them to maintain stealth as well as using the smoke fields and such I wouldnt say stealth is skill less. I honestly think stealth in any form that is effective against a opponent will be qq'd about often and repeatedly, with that in mind I guess my point is I dont think anything other than a full removal will help the situation much and I dont believe that will happen. > > > > > > It's not skilless in gw2 but it does reward bad thief's with easy kills and the really good thief's can take on 5 6 players and never get killed and even down/kill in those situations which yeah that's not normal and why even bother chasing/fighting unless you bored. Stealth is just a qq factory and has probably made more new players quit mmos then anything else. Yeah unless there's no stealth there will always be issues but I doubt any mmo would have the balls to make one w/o a thief type class. > > > Oh and the topic yeah if you can't avoid sentry's and the 1 watchtower per map I can't help you. We all get marked cept by the time someone responds you can stealth and run off and most of us can't. > > > > 1 thief taking on 5 players? I've seen things like this posted before lol in 7 yrs I've never seen this, who are u playing with? Lol. I've never 2v1 a thief and not either killed the thief or forced it to run and especially not a 3vthief lol. On occasion I've faced thieves especially s/d in wvw where they out skilled me hard with positioning on infiltrator strike and evades they seemed untouchable but that's on me for not catching them in cc's at the right time and cuz most my skills are neutered (I'm usual on warrior small amount I play these days) not really that they were OP just simply better than me. > > No hes engaging 5 players and they all chasing him and can't kill him not he wins and kills all 5. I see it all the time near smc then if he really wants to troll you get the perma keep tapper with 8 or 9 chasing. Depends on the builds and the players. I once killed a 5 man guild group in north camp of DBL on a minimal stealth condi trapper build, and I mean I killed them all, none got away. That said, they were five people who were stupid enough to try ressing each other through traps and choking gas after I got a full trap spike on two of them, downing them shortly after. At the time choking gas was a poison field with a pulsing daze, while I had fun stuff like torment on interrupt and draining/absorption sigils stealing their boons and healing me for 5k a second through interrupts. If they had moved out of my AoE to focus and down me before going to res whoever I got they would have killed me fairly easily, but like I say, they misplayed hard. You are generally right tho, you won't ever win fights against those kind of numbers vs anyone who has actually played thief and knows how to handle it.

Hmm. I actually kind of like the melee range fear when playing rifle, as it helps to stop you getting trained down by camp guards while you hit your target, removing some of the advantage the enemy has by fighting in their camp and meaning you're not forced to swap to your melee set until you want to. It also works really, really nicely with severance sigil and draining sigil in those circumstances.

Yep, no arguments here. So often I end up swapping out useful runes for runes of speed on my thief because stuff is just leeroying out of melee range with superspeed lol.

> @"aleron.1438" said: > Rending shade: +1 boon stolen > Shadow Gust: 1 boon removed, stability priority, ammo charge 2, remove stealth, 40s CD > Shadow flare: ammo charge 3 (2 is meh, SoJ says hi) 60s cd > I'd be fine with this, provided they shaved some utility off of binding shadow. DE would have too much boonrip & control on the bar otherwise.

1) These graphs do not prove anything about build diversity or claim buff because that requires data, both qualitative (what is the definition of meta, and over what time period are we comparing?) and quantitative (how many people play these builds?) as opposed to the "class A runs X, class B runs Y" logic you're using. These graphs are illustrations, not proof. 2) The graphs appear to contain errors, at least in the case of thief. For the majority of HoT rev and warrior ran full zerker gear in zergs, but thieves were running marauder/zerk or valk/zerk mixes, meaning thief should be to the left of rev and warrior on that graph instead of where it is now. They also don't show the shifts in metas caused by balance patches over the course of each expansion; the meta can change dramatically with a single patch (see warriors swapping from zerk to minstrel because of the CC damage nerf in Feb), and you will often find players running builds from the previous meta some months after the patch. You would be better off comparing the meta before and after a single change rather than over a time scale of 2-3 years per interval. 3) It is difficult to draw valid comparisons between the graphs when you are changing what professions and elite specs are included. In order to track the change of something over time, you must include the same things in all three graphs otherwise any conclusions will be less useful than you'd like. A more useful thing to track might have been meta build by profession for each period, and to have a series of graphs for each profession. 4) Your line of best fit for pre HoT and post HoT are clearly inaccurate. You appear to be muddling the shape of the graph by using the Y axis to show both the prevalence of each class in the average WvW group and the number of builds that fulfill the criteria on the X axis, leading your peak to be drawn at the point where the guardians & necros sit in the post HoT graph rather than to the right of the line where it clearly ought to be. The prevalence of an individual meta build is irrelevant when considering build diversity, so if you simply had "number of meta builds" on the Y axis, both the pre and post HoT curves would have the same general shape with a concentration of points on the right of the graph causing a peak there, with a longer, more drawn out tail to the left side in the post HoT graph caused by the two support builds being further from the central line, rather than the flattened middle peak you have going on. This, along with the dramatic change to the post PoF line, suggests that the shift between vanilla and HoT was not as impactful as the shift from HoT to PoF. This would in turn suggest that the claim buff is not the cause of any significant shift in the meta given it was introduced with HoT, but it is the introduction of full supports that has done the damage, as said by others in the thread. Edit: Thinking about it, you do actually have a point in a way, in that keep buff becomes more significant in a min/max meta than it does a more balanced meta. Still, it is a consequence of the change in game design changing the meta, not a cause of the meta changing in and of itself.

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > Also this. This is why I don't have a problem personally, as most that run are generally not worth chasing. > > Except those that run past you are heading to the zerg to reinforce them, so the zerg continues their attack on your base, > > And in another instance, you don't even know if the players running past you on mounts aren't worth chasing...there's no way to actually know until you fight them and either beat them or lose. > > Mainly what you and @"lodjur.1284" are really referring to here is about is fighting "worthy opponents" because the assumption is that two players who want to fight will mutually agree to dismount. This is just 1v1 and if you just wanted to 1v1 you could have just gone to a pvp server and 1v1. > > If you actually wanted to roam you would be in the thick of all types of encounters that are inherently unpredictable including 1v1's but also 1v3's being outmanned (getting ganked), to 3v1 ganking people, to small scale skirmishes, even ending up in the thick of large scale battles...all of those things are part of roaming. if you want a 1v1 simulator go to a 1v1 duel arena that's way faster than running around on a mount to find other players to duel. > > Not speaking directly to you just addressing your point. > > Also personally, before i quit roaming, at least 75% if not more of people that were traversing would almost always bypass me. I had nights where i found nobody to fight because nobody was willing to dismount their warclaws unless it was them and 50 of their buddies there...which i also just mount my warclaw and ran away from all 50 of them because the mounts allowed me to do just that. > > Like I said it killed roaming and all that's left are the gankers because all the good duelers and real roamers like myself have long since left the scene. I didn't say or mean to imply that I only look for 1v1s, I will take on whatever comes when roaming because that's what I find fun. When I say it's not worth chasing people that run past you I mean that I've never really had an issue finding fights as long as there is an objective to fight over, be it a camp or a keep, that way the fight will come to you. If they choose to run past me and ignore the camp that I took or the tower that I hid in and am capping, they didn't want the fight and I have better things to do. I don't really care what they are running to attack because if I did, I'd probably be playing a group build on tag and not be on my thief. So yeah, it's not worth chasing people that run away on mounts because there's no point chasing after fights that will come to you on their own. As for your last point, it's interesting how you say roaming is about adapting to whatever fight you find in one breath, then go on to say that most real roamers have left the scene because they failed to adapt to how things changed with warclaw. Looks like it wasn't me that was looking for a specific type of fight.

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > >... everyone having more or less equal out of combat mobility > > > > > > > Except for those that actually want to engage in combat. They added the spear on Warclaw for a reason, because prior people would just YEET away for eternity until they reach their allied zerg or until the enemy just leaves you alone because its not worth traveling across the entire map just to engage with you when you decide you want to dismount your warclaw. Again picking and choosing fights via the warclaw killed roaming. > > Before warclaw there was still the same picking and choosing fights, you were just forced to run one of the handful of builds (mainly thief) that had that luxory otherwise you were just food for gank squads. Now more classes/builds are viable for roaming as everyone has comparable ability to avoid gankers rather than a select few. I guess people are salty about a luxory they have enjoyed for years being granted to other classes. Actually, it's not about the luxury being granted to other classes, it's the opposite. If you are against the same players that form your gank squads they can now have 2-3 attack you while the others keep you in combat with warclaw and spear, so mobility is now entirely irrelevant if you try solo roaming no matter your class. That's why some people say it killed roaming, as now everyone gets ganked if the enemies have half a brain. > @"lodjur.1284" said: > Never had anything actually worth fighting run away from me on a warclaw Also this. This is why I don't have a problem personally, as most that run are generally not worth chasing.

How did this turn from dragon banner to mounts? Good change to banners imo tho

> @"choovanski.5462" said: > why would anyone volunteer their server? why would anyone want an all Thief guild that just wants to pick up bags from already won fights in their map queue? > > serious questions here. I would hate to be stuck in queue because a bunch of thieves are tagging for bags... I'd rather be playing with them than against them, personally. You think one deadeye hiding in SM is bad? Try a whole guild of them :P In all seriousness tho, it's their game, their right to play it how they want to, and nobody has a monopoly on the maps. Zerglings run around tagging stuff for bags, so I don't see how this is any different.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > hard countered by pretty much any Necro build. > Any build relying on boons is hard countered by necros but then again if you dont take elixir c to counter the condi bomb and elixir x (well moa) to counter shroud you are also gimping yourself vs necros so there's that. The build I was testing had AED and the cleanse from the supply crate toolbelt skill, that plus a cleansing sigil seemed like enough cleanse vs a sustain soulbeast and a condi druid last night (seperate fights). The issue I had was I'm not used to using CC to lock down the opponent anymore, so I could get him to half health then had to kite out and heal which gave him opportunity to recover. I don't want to give up rocket boots for C (thief main, I like the mobility) but I will see how it goes.

Awesome, thanks for the replies. I made the build I mentioned earlier with a trailblazer/rabid mix and it works pretty nicely with rocket boots to kite. I will try out scrapper (I guess I'll drop tools, as sneak gyro and hammer leaps should cover the mobility from rocket boots) and SpellOfIniquity's build next :)

If you're in fractals, havok is better as dodges are part of your rotation. That said, I prefer not to be running on 0-1 dodges all the time as I will do more damage by not getting downed, so it is more preference than anything really.

> @"Haildam.3712" said: > You are all super nice! I'm on the EU server (seafarer) if someone want to try my skills :+1: I'm on underworld, so we're against each other this week. Whisper me in game if you want to set up some duels sometime ^^

> @"Deniara Devious.3948" said: > **At least give us a special core only week. No elite specs at all.** > > I can already guess core guardian, thief and necromancer would be popular. > > Poor core elementalist and core engineer. > > Honestly, core ele and core engi are only really seen as bad because a combination of their elite specs and utility on other classes make them redundant (why run 4 kit engi to blast fields when holo and scrapper give you the same utility on a single button, and why run staff ele for water fields when firebrand heals exist etc etc). If you remove elite specs then those specs are suddenly a lot more useful than you'd think.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > he's right as in that both of them are problematic classes since they add nothing for Wvw and are anti-teamplay, but easy to scam some cheap kills. they should get, specifically for Wvw, hard nerfs to their damage to make them more unattractive to pick. So because it's not your desired playstyle, they should be nerfed so nobody bothers with it? Objective balancing FTW.