Jugglemonkey.8741

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > They just need an invisible wall above the gates on those structures. Problem solved. > > Not so much. Then you wouldn't have LOS to cast ground-targeted skills or ranged AoEs like AC fire, marks, wells, etc. through, and likely jumping through open gates with these same vertical leaps would be cut short by clipping into said wall pieces. > > **Easier fix is to just remove the little humped wall you can stand on or reshaping the corners to be a bit further away.** > > What this is really demonstrating is that the game was not designed for professions to have this much mobility, which is already an endemic problem in class balance alone. That also works. But yeah, it's the same issue that DBL had with druid and gliding, the maps simply weren't designed with certain skills and traits in mind. > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"knite.1542" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > I don't see what this has got to do with mesmers... > > > > > > > Ah, cool. :) So basically most professions could do something like that. Then that means that no single profession is really at fault, more like the structures are glitchy, no? > > > > Most professions can't create portals for the teammates to use (in WvW). > > That trait is getting less and less unique with each update lol. > Used to be that only mesmers could portal. > Now Thieves and Scourges can as well. > There's also an item that creates a portal for any profession so if you count that, then every profession can make a portal. > Though i assume that item isn't working in WvW. I don't think the consumable works in WvW, no. But as far as thief portal goes, I'm still happy for that to be removed. It's fun, but it really was not necessary, and I'd sooner have the old traps back.

They just need an invisible wall above the gates on those structures. Problem solved.

This is what I'm running for S/D deadeye in WvW at the moment; http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAQxjlNwkYbsOmJOMXnvLA-zVZYBBZIG1r8zwOkwEBZqo6VqqxDiYsHekgHHVzA-w It makes for a surprisingly good 1v1 build, the build won't carry you because no shadow arts and no one shot potential but it's fun with a very active playstyle. Use is pretty simple, use mark and stolen skills along with rifle to chip them down at range and build malice, use S/D when they try to block/reflect your rifle, and either spend malice on the rifle sneak attack for pure damage or on the sword sneak attack to keep endurance high. You have a ton of mobility between sword 2 and rifle 4 along with 1500 range on rifle, so use that to keep yourself out of the range of AoE's. Remember when spending malice to keep an eye on what's around you, because using a stolen skill with 5+ malice is your main source of stealth, so don't dump your malice if there's a thief about to +1 you. You have potentially perma protection and high might stacks from cycling sneak attacks with max malice, so learning to manage malice but not run yourself low on initiative is key. In general this build deals less well with being +1'd than the typical permastealth D/P deadeye, but that build is boring so hey. The main thing you can't kill is a full bunker condi ranger but you shouldn't be bothering to fight those guys anyways, best to call the zerg to their location and vomit on their corpse repeatedly instead. This is a more conventional S/D daredevil build, if you want to try both; http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUxjlNwuYbsOGJOMXntUA-zVRYBBZIG1f5HSYigMVU9KV14BRM2DPSwjjqZA-w You have more evades but less damage, hence why you have less defensive gear. You also have AoE through shortbow 2, lower range on your shots but more mobility through shortbow and dash. Try both, see what you think.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > So unless you're going to suggest a mechanic that bypasses the mount health and strikes a player's health directly, or that simply does enough damage to overpower the opponent in one shot, it will achieve nothing. And even if it did, frankly, the way DE burst before the Feb patch was plain unhealthy for the game, I don't really want to see a return to that. I'd rather see a more useful set of rifle 2 and 3 skills so that spamming standing rifle 2 for malice isn't always the best choice, and so the 3 skills aren't damage dealers, but so they do something else that sets up the opponent for the spike. That would make DE gameplay far less spammy while not overpowering or breaking it in the process. > > I blame Ini mechanic and Malice mechanic combined for creating a "spammy" identity for DE. > Malice is essential for a DE to deal their "sniper's shot" with DJ, and Ini is basically a cooldown bypass which facilitates Malice generation. > > All of this just creates a "Sniper" with a bottomless clip which shoots really fast and deals high damage. > > Also, I think that DEs in general need to be forced into Kneel for high damage. > It's a mechanic provided, but it endangers the DE often. > > I actually kinda miss the risk back when DE has to kneel in order to use DJ. > The idea is to run around without Kneel and build malice, flank the opponent with a Kneel and open a DJ on them. Thing is, I actually like that the high damage skill is gated behind malice generation. It means the other guy is well aware of your presence before the high damage shot comes, which is healthy given how much damage that thing can do. There are still plenty of skills that can burst hard on thief, but I'm actually glad the old malicious backstab build isn't a thing anymore. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement; spamming one skill because nothing else builds malice sufficiently is not great and I agree that kneel should be a high risk high reward kind of thing. They could start just by reworking the 3 skill on both standing and kneeling; it's not useful in PvP or WvW in any way shape or form. > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > > > > > No offence, but that would make malicious backstab insanely OP if sleight of hand, bountiful theft and mug all went off when it hit. There would also be virtually no reason to use mark if the damage on the non-mark boosted sneak attacks was sufficient, and if you needed to mark in order to do enough damage to kill something it just forces people to run more one trick pony builds. This is unless mark still applied steal traited effects of course, which again would be a straight up buff if the sneak attack applies them too. > > > > > > The idea is to turn their "Steal" into a manual function, applied through an extremely strong Stealth Attack. > > > > > > Deadeye Mark will become more like "Loading a Bullet" > > > > > > It will turn the next Stealth Attack into Malicious Stealth Attack and apply Steal effects **IF IT HITS** > > > > > > If anything, this is more of a function nerf and it doesn't let Deadeyes have an "ez" button that applies like 7 effects without even putting them into danger melee range. > > > > > > The "mark" will no longer mark at all, and Malice will only consume when used on a primed Stealth Attack. > > > > > > So if they missed their Malicious Stealth Attack, boo hoo hoo. > > > > > > Will it make DEs try to go for 1 shot cheese builds again? > > > > > > Yes. I'm counting on it. > > > Snipers should be aiming to deal a bulk of their damage in a single important shot anyway, and not spamming Spotters and 2k damage autos. > > > > > > And if they missed their important shot? > > > They are punished by not having access to it for awhile and need to reposition to avoid retaliation. > > > > > > > Honestly, all of this would make next to no difference, and require substantial reworks in the process. The thing that killed malicious backstab as a build was the introduction of mounts combined with the damage nerf in the Feb 2020 patch; you can't one shot a guy who's mounted because excessive damage to the mount does not overflow into the player's health (it's rather like throwing your 25K backstab into 5k of necro shroud, it ain't gonna work), and if the player is dismounted you no longer have the damage to one shot the majority of builds whether you build malice or not. > > > > So unless you're going to suggest a mechanic that bypasses the mount health and strikes a player's health directly, or that simply does enough damage to overpower the opponent in one shot, it will achieve nothing. And even if it did, frankly, the way DE burst before the Feb patch was plain unhealthy for the game, I don't really want to see a return to that. I'd rather see a more useful set of rifle 2 and 3 skills so that spamming standing rifle 2 for malice isn't always the best choice, and so the 3 skills aren't damage dealers, but so they do something else that sets up the opponent for the spike. That would make DE gameplay far less spammy while not overpowering or breaking it in the process. > > This^ regarding DE especially. That said thief needs a buff in spike damage on its kits considering its hit and run design. A class like thier needs to hit hard and fast so if it needs to run if pressured than atleast the hits it got off were significant. Unless it gets sustain buffs it needs its active defences and disengage potential intact or it's a free bag. > I dont understanding why gw2 pvp community had such a issue understanding the concept of a hit and run class, it's what all rogue likes are in mmo. Look at eso for example and ull notice nightblade is top burst class, wow subtlety is top burst class, shadow dancer in archeage or ninja in bdo on and on yet gw2 thief doesn't burst any higher than tanks or jack of all trades builds lmao seriously. Anet seemed like they new what the rogue like class design is about and that it's a class that in every mmo gets hated on by their design but all mmos have them yet over last couple yes they have listened far to much to thief hating and has allowed it to dictate them destroying the class. I don't know, I feel like thief has plenty of damage already, at least in WvW. I hit a reaper for 15k using vault the other night, I had assassin signet on the bar but not popped and no bloodlust stacks. My power P/D DE can get 8-12k sneak attacks off pistol into 7-9k shadow strikes without needing to build malice, and I've been hit with a 17k malicious backstab in the last couple of months (he was D/D, he marked then opened with cloak and dagger followed by a 17k three malice backstab, I've been trying to replicate that damage but I find D/D quite fiddly to play). What we don't have now is that kind of damage on more defensive gear sets/specs or while using dura runes etc, which is actually good IMO as if you want to do that kind of damage for an opener you ought to be glassy yourself. What really needs a change IMO is the level of sustain needs to be brought down for all classes, it's stupid that you can build full glass and still have things shrug off your damage. Do that then change leaps in smoke fields to blind on hit (or even better, make smoke fields no longer stealth anything) so permastealth engages aren't a thing, and then we can talk about buffs.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > Pretty sure it was a 100% projectile finisher at one point? I remember using it with choking gas to stack poison on a D/D condi unicorn build anyways > > Was always Whirl. > Whirl shoots out "projectiles" which are called Bolts or something. > Thing was, it counts as three Whirls or something and shoots out multiple. > > Ahhh, that's right. Been a long time since I played it, thanks for the reminder ^^

> @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > If it does get fixed, I rather it be a 100% chance Projectile Finisher instead. > > > > It fires off 3 projectiles, would be pretty nice in a field. > Let me get this straight, [Lotus training](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Training) is an on dodge skill which thief has 3 plus fast access to easily refill the endurance bar. > Thief also has plenty of access to smoke fields. > > > [@"Yasai.3549" said:](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90649/lead-the-wind-projectile-combos-become-unblockable#latest) > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > Which will reveal the ranger with the first impact. What's your point? > > Who cares if it reveals the ranger when yur Rapid Fire has 100% chance to Blind. > So for thief this is not an issue? Care to explain the difference to me? Pretty sure it was a 100% projectile finisher at one point? I remember using it with choking gas to stack poison on a D/D condi unicorn build anyways

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > No offence, but that would make malicious backstab insanely OP if sleight of hand, bountiful theft and mug all went off when it hit. There would also be virtually no reason to use mark if the damage on the non-mark boosted sneak attacks was sufficient, and if you needed to mark in order to do enough damage to kill something it just forces people to run more one trick pony builds. This is unless mark still applied steal traited effects of course, which again would be a straight up buff if the sneak attack applies them too. > > The idea is to turn their "Steal" into a manual function, applied through an extremely strong Stealth Attack. > > Deadeye Mark will become more like "Loading a Bullet" > > It will turn the next Stealth Attack into Malicious Stealth Attack and apply Steal effects **IF IT HITS** > > If anything, this is more of a function nerf and it doesn't let Deadeyes have an "ez" button that applies like 7 effects without even putting them into danger melee range. > > The "mark" will no longer mark at all, and Malice will only consume when used on a primed Stealth Attack. > > So if they missed their Malicious Stealth Attack, boo hoo hoo. > > Will it make DEs try to go for 1 shot cheese builds again? > > Yes. I'm counting on it. > Snipers should be aiming to deal a bulk of their damage in a single important shot anyway, and not spamming Spotters and 2k damage autos. > > And if they missed their important shot? > They are punished by not having access to it for awhile and need to reposition to avoid retaliation. > Honestly, all of this would make next to no difference, and require substantial reworks in the process. The thing that killed malicious backstab as a build was the introduction of mounts combined with the damage nerf in the Feb 2020 patch; you can't one shot a guy who's mounted because excessive damage to the mount does not overflow into the player's health (it's rather like throwing your 25K backstab into 5k of necro shroud, it ain't gonna work), and if the player is dismounted you no longer have the damage to one shot the majority of builds whether you build malice or not. So unless you're going to suggest a mechanic that bypasses the mount health and strikes a player's health directly, or that simply does enough damage to overpower the opponent in one shot, it will achieve nothing. And even if it did, frankly, the way DE burst before the Feb patch was plain unhealthy for the game, I don't really want to see a return to that. I'd rather see a more useful set of rifle 2 and 3 skills so that spamming standing rifle 2 for malice isn't always the best choice, and so the 3 skills aren't damage dealers, but so they do something else that sets up the opponent for the spike. That would make DE gameplay far less spammy while not overpowering or breaking it in the process.

Different classes do different things. If I brought a roaming class to a raid, you'd tell me I was playing the wrong class for that content and I need to L2P. So when people bring raid classes to roaming, is it any surprise that the roaming classes run rings around them?

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > Thief with its stealth & ports need the pvp-treatment. Its perfectly fine. > > > > Or they need to rework "revealed" completely & make it not being cleansed by deadeye > > I think it's a design flaw at the end of the day. > The reason Shadow Meld removes Revealed was because DE needed something to make up for DJ applying Revealed to themselves and during that duration, they can't DJ again, which would hurt PvE a little. > > I think they should change it from Revealed removal to triggering DJ while in any state with a small damage bonus. > It's also fair for other players : If the DE tries to DJ while unstealthed, they are definitely gonna get punished for it. > > I've already suggested before for Shadow Meld to be reworked from a Revealed removal + Stealth to something which is more Sniper-like, like loading a special killing shot. > Also let's be real : DEs aren't really snipers, they spam their shots way too much to be Snipers. > > If it were me, I would rework how DE and DJ works, along with Deadeye Mark. > - Make Damage skills on enemies just generate Malice. > - Deadeye Mark skill will prime the next Stealth attack to do higher damage and consume Malice > - Hitting the target with the Stealth attack will apply Steal effects as well > - normal Stealth attacks recharge the Deadeye Mark > > No offence, but that would make malicious backstab insanely OP if sleight of hand, bountiful theft and mug all went off when it hit. There would also be virtually no reason to use mark if the damage on the non-mark boosted sneak attacks was sufficient, and if you needed to mark in order to do enough damage to kill something it just forces people to run more one trick pony builds. This is unless mark still applied steal traited effects of course, which again would be a straight up buff if the sneak attack applies them too.

It got removed once before, then reintroduced, then removed again. When balance (ie the builds that were too strong with it) is more in line, you may see it back again.

> @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > I'd say thief isn't unique in being able to run. > > > > Warrior and Soulbeast both have extremely survivable builds that can run fast, endure/evade a lot of damage, and in the Soulbeast example still set up a burst from 1200-1500 range. > > > > The complaint about thief isn't legitimate. If you can't keep up against a mobile target then stop chasing them. Focus on the objectives and targets you can kill. > Well a Warrior or Soulbeast can not reset the fight at will. Or escape 5-10 enemies if they messed up. > > Which i can do as thief. **My backstab missed or i didn't one shot? I teleport or go invisible. I get knocked down? I teleport or go invisible. I can even mount up while being invisible. I don't have any TPs left or access to stealth? I cast [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm)** .The class is extremely forgiving. > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > I'd say thief isn't unique in being able to run. > > > > Warrior and Soulbeast both have extremely survivable builds that can run fast, endure/evade a lot of damage, and in the Soulbeast example still set up a burst from 1200-1500 range. > > > > The complaint about thief isn't legitimate. If you can't keep up against a mobile target then stop chasing them. Focus on the objectives and targets you can kill. > Well a Warrior or Soulbeast can not reset the fight at will. Or escape 5-10 enemies if they messed up. > > Which i can do as thief. **My backstab missed or i didn't one shot? I teleport or go invisible. I get knocked down? I teleport or go invisible. I can even mount up while being invisible. I don't have any TPs left or access to stealth? I cast [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm)** .The class is extremely forgiving. > > A bad soulbeast might not be able to, but a good soulbeast certainly can

> @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"ASP.8093" said: > > A lot of these complaints boil down to "5-10 of us can't CC-spam a thief to death because as soon as we start, the thief Shadowsteps away and then runs fast." There's no semblance of a fight here, just "give bag now." > > Well no class should be able to disengage from 5-10 enemies after being CC'ed as the norm. most other classes would be done for and i have to admit the Thief is very forgiving in that regard. > > That's why everybody things thief is the ez class with no skill needed, if you mess up you have too many "oh kitten" buttons. I've said several times, the only thing a thief can do to annoy people more than permastealth does is to use little stealth and still not die. It shows up the opponents then.

> @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > > To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period. > > > > Where did the thief hurt you ? Most of you aint even soloing cus you lack the skill. You run in a group and get picked out and come to the forum to complain. You have Zero experience and didnt bother to take the time to duel the class that hurts you. Its on You,not the spec. Realize this. > > > > FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining. > > And most people don't understand the counter profession/build system. > > If you are a power oneshot mesmer with 16k hp and you keep going against thieves and losing you cannot go cry on the forum how broken thief is because simply counters your profession and build. > > Same as thief going against sic'em rangers all day. You can't complain. Exactly. Tbh this is why I have 6 builds set up on my thief while roaming plus a couple others for groups and pve, if your current build is countered by something then odds are another build will counter it.

> @"kash.9213" said: > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > I think we all agree with the notion stealth is trash mechanic. Not only for thief but also for druid, dragon hunter and engineer. > > > > > I'd like to say the stealth on dodge from [silent Scope](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope) and the revealed removal from [shadow Meld](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld) are very toxic mechanics at the same level of [Ancient Seeds](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ancient_Seeds). > > > > > > > > > > But if Anet remove those mechanics the Deadeye will be really useless. And it will not address the main issue wich is a mechanic with no counter like it is stealth. Any other nerfs to the class will not work as the thief can circumvent all the nerfs to stealth or mobility (which is also an issue in a class with no cooldowns when it can reset the fight whenever they want but the enemies can't reset the cooldowns). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As such i will again propose this: > > > > > * **First : While stealthed the character enters combat.** This is very important as i'm able to mount while in stealth. > > > > > * Deadeye converts all incoming stealth to extended [Camouflage ](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Camouflage). For each application of stealth it is converted to camouflage plus additional seconds so the effect last longer. Camouflage makes the deadeye invisible but it can not perform any actions, not even movement. I gains stealth in [Death's Retreat](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Retreat) and in [shadow Flare](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Flare) and [shadow Swap](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Swap) which is a cantrip with no use. So everytime it uses a teleport can be seen for less than a second. > > > > > * Stealth from thief and smoke fields only makes invisible to enemies farther than 600 units. Any enemy closer than that to the thief will be able to see the thief but not reveal it. A trait could be so the range is reduced to 300 only for the thief. This will fix not only the Thief but also any other means of stealth like the druid, the trapper runes, etc... > > > > > * Stealth from mesmers works the other way around. The mesmer is invisible to enemies in a range of 600 with a trait to make it wider up to 900. > > > > > > > > > > And like that we fix many issues and open squad spots for thieves and mesmers, as the first will guarantee stealth while approaching while the other stealth on close. > > > > Or you could just tweak **existing mechanics** to actually have some meaning: > > > > > > > > - Each second someone remains in stealth adds a second to revealed which gets applied when the person exits stealth (either by attacking another player or stacked stealth expiring). > > > > > > > > And there you go. Problem solved. If a deadeye want to stay stealthed for 1 minute, he can be. But afterwards he cannot stealth for 1 minute. If a tp theif want to stealth for 5s, appear to do a single attack and stealth again then infinetily repeat it as they teleport back and forward... nope. You can stealth for 5 seconds sure. But that means you cant for 5 seconds. > > > > > > > > Simple and effective. > > > > > > That's a more realistic compromise. Silent scope isn't even that bad, you have spend Initiative bouncing out to keep distance or to swap and evade some which rifle doesn't have. Guy mentioning no cooldowns like everything is free is a good preview to the rest of his idea. > > > > I like your idea. **But deadeye can remove the revealed with [shadow Meld](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld).** That elite has 2 charges. How are you proposing to fix that? Are you thinking now adding a _new reveal_ which can't be removed? And then Anet adds a new stealth which can remove that reveal? That is the equivalent to power creep but for invisibility. > > > > That's why i thought about camouflage. The idea is to allow the DE to be stealthed for long periods of time with the only requirement to not to perform actions. Also Camouflage would fix the fact you only see the DE attacks when they hit you (with the only exception of [Death Judgement](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment) which can be circumvented by using quickness so the 1 second precast is minimized) . Which means the DE can land an attack like [spotter's Shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spotter%27s_Shot) from invisibility immobilise you then a [Three Round Burst](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Three_Round_Burst) and go back into stealth while you are still bussy cleansing the immob. > > > > **Camouflage would disappear as soon as the DE hit the action button in opposition to when the projectile hit you**, which gives the player the opportunity to perform a counter play if the target is quick enough. Now the first impact is hit guaranteed. I understand the concept may be difficult to see but there is a big difference between stealth and camouflage. > > > > That's why i came up wit the idea of the visibility radius for normal stealth. **The point is to give the target the possibility to dodge or perform an action and to understand what happened even if that margin is very slim**. Right now i can one shot some glass eles or mesmers even before they can do anything. > > > > I see it as a very cheesy mechanic which i understand is very unfun to play against. > > I think his idea shouldn't have to take Shadow Meld into consideration because that Elite Skill should be replaced. A DE Elite skill should be something that strengthens Kneel stance, like adds some defense and counter measures and allows temporary slow movement in crouch or something. I've also suggested before having some kind of proximity visual filter (only visual, while stealth mechanics still apply) that would force a stealth user to plan their resources and utilities to land a deceptive opener or heavy hit, but then people would need to be cool with something like that being a thing, which they most likely wouldn't be and there would be endless threads about that. Honestly, I don't think it would need that either. If I hide in a keep then attack someone after more than a minute, having more than a minute of reveal as a result will absolutely force me to use shadow meld. That's one charge. I then have one charge to counter a reveal, and after that I am toast because against more than 1 player their reveals will be off cooldown before shadow meld is. I do agree kneel skills should be better than they are tho, but that's a separate thread.

It's pretty important for thieves, since your defences are active and changing your build to work around a defensive skill can flip a matchup on it's head. Depends what and how you play, I guess.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > i mean, in reality thiefs just never do that. i really play Wvw much, and we have a lot of thieves here. they hide in towers to port people in, rarely solocap bc they'd get ganked in outnumbered situations. often just port ppl in and go stealth again, often ppl just get ganked then inside. > > the bigger numbers server can always get supps, u cannot effectively "cut the supply lines", that'd require a huge number of thieves on all maps that work coordinated - and exactly that is what thieves usually avoid. u guys to solo actions, tagging keeps perma due to the broken escape options works, yeah. > > this scouting-zergs is technically possible, but idk if i have ever seen that happening like u describe it. > > so even if we say it's not completely useless, it has a very low need of numbers compared to everything else. like 2 thieves in a 75 mapcap border would be enough yet. reality is rather, 8 thieves that do random things, 10-15 rangers hunting dollies or escorting them. > > the potential use may be there. if you're that good at cooperating, tags would give u participation tho. then you do get spots in tags. just the 0,001% that do this and not roleplaying as vulture make it hard to say "ok, thief superlegit meta class, just bring" > @"suialthor.7164" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > > So, according to you, outside of using voice comms and perma-stealthing behind an enemy tag so your tag always knows where they are, hiding in towers and recapping solo so your tag can focus on the enemy, cutting supply lines so the enemy cannot sustain an attack, keeping enemy players from contributing to their zerg by forcing them to hunt the thief or lose the objective, and downing backliners in open field fights to provide targets for your tag to bomb, thief has no use. Gotcha. > > > > Fyi, something doesn't become useless just because you can't see a use for it. > > Where is this rare communicative thief and how can we get them to server transfer? I've only played along side ones looking to use stealth as a crutch for ganking. For every thief you see goofing around somewhere, you will see players on other classes doing the same, and I'm pretty sure everyone has memories of players on all classes being outright detriments to their team through their behaviour. The failure to be useful just means that player is being useless at that time, it doesn't mean that their class can't be useful if used right. You may have a point about larger groups always getting supply, but I can always stealth ahead of their zerg while they cap a camp for supply and try to place supply traps if I want to be really annoying. Something I can always do is force several players to run dollies if they want their towers and keeps to upgrade, that's one player dictating what happens across 3-4 objectives, and on resets it's not uncommon for me to get 5-10 players come to defend north camp while laying stealth traps etc. If those players aren't on their tag and are spreading out across a camp looking for me, that's a numbers advantage to our group wherever they're fighting. I'm just describing stuff that I try to do when working with a tag, and yeah, I usually get a spot in the squad and participation when doing it. That said, I'm known to my guild (a server community guild) and commanders, I am usually using voice comms, and I'm probably one of the only people who has a full minstrel deadeye build just for scouting zergs and hiding in objectives, so that may have something to do with it too. That's also assuming I'm working with a tag at the time; sometimes I just feel like solo roaming and seeing what happens, and it's okay for players to want to do that. My overall point is that just because thief players either fail or do not try to be useful to a tag doesn't mean they can't be if they wanted to; WvW does not solely revolve around roaming & scouting, havok, open field fights, GvG or PPT, all of these things are important and useful if given their proper place.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > i see so many thieves around, so i can safely say that they are useless... nothing but vultures. they have ppt-usage, but that was it. as casual as it gets. abiltiers: kill dollies, gank lonely players, pull if using that build, portal into keeps if using that build, stealthy throwing siege disablers. wow, so useful. @"Jugglemonkey.8741" none of that is real usefulness. their most senseful use would be to scout for tags, but that rarely happens. So, according to you, outside of using voice comms and perma-stealthing behind an enemy tag so your tag always knows where they are, hiding in towers and recapping solo so your tag can focus on the enemy, cutting supply lines so the enemy cannot sustain an attack, keeping enemy players from contributing to their zerg by forcing them to hunt the thief or lose the objective, and downing backliners in open field fights to provide targets for your tag to bomb, thief has no use. Gotcha. Fyi, something doesn't become useless just because you can't see a use for it.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Dangus.6572" said: > > I play thief for like... 8years in WvW. The only thing that needs to be removed from thief is teleport. Then DE or DrD or whoever can hide in keeps as much as they want. > > I hope u meant portal tele and not tele in general cuz kitten... He probably does. I mean, it's not like anyone asked for portal, or preparations in general really, just for traps to be functional.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > mesmer can have use, thief not. > > mesmers can be used for veilsupport, feedback bubble and boonstrips (chronomancer is the best class to support groups for mesmer) and sometimes portalbombing. > > thiefs only use it to gank single targets with other dps pepes. and camp keeps for days to portal people in. If you can't think of a use for a thief, that's more a reflection of your ability than it is of the class.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Keg_of_Instant_World_Experience If you get one of these from a drop, it will give you 5 (I think) levels at once, and it's automatically consumed. More than likely you just noticed one drop, where usually it just happens without fanfare.

Also check your mouse/keyboard. Is the button sticking? If you hold down the button it will do exactly what you described, hence why I ask.

They did try to change it by making the skill check if it could port before firing the arrow, but it is still possible to fire the arrow, have the game check to see that it can, then move into a space that the port cannot work while the arrow is in flight. Not common, but yeah, it usually results in death when it does happen.

> @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"purple.6194" said: > > Well, hit two pages, Ladies and gents, original post just referring to deadeye and their ability to hide in keeps forever and port groups in from outside outer wall directly to lord room, ( yes this is a thing). No it is not a matter of strategy or skill. Yes you can do it with core and daredevil, it is easier with deadeye, people who do it aren't god gamer's I know 10 people across the NA servers ( there are more obviously merely restricting it to advance my point here) that do it for up six to hours during their respective timezones. 8 of those 10 have 600+ ping with unstable connection, 4 out of this group bug under the map to build untargettable cats from underneath. No they wont get banned its been years . While this is happening bl keeps becomes largely indefencible, redbl in particular is that much more vulnerable with the keeps being far easier to hide in and response time on that shithouse map being that much longer. As a result the keeps go to paper while the thieve's and squads that use them ktrain it up and just wait for them to logoff before bothering to upgrade on the bl's. This has its impact on everything else but again just one step at a time, > > > > I said fix deadeye's and not fix thief for one simple reason, deadeye is the easiest to do this on, therefore that is what the keep hider's use. keep it as basic as possible, this does not need to get into the weeds of confusing concepts. > > If there was a skill element at all, fair enough its just an odd bad gameplay minigame within the game for players to play. There is not, this is obviously another unintentional result of throwing kitten at a wall without any followup. > > > > I am not talking about roaming, issues with stealth generally, or strategies to 1shot thieves with rangers' cus thats solid gameplay! That is a whole other issue that obviously needs solving but again one baby step at a time. Up until this month there has been no reason to even bring it up, i don't think the forums are of much value at all, but again simply here since there was some actual wvw changes that even indicate someone is looking at wvw at all > > > > ALSO can't resist, INB4 git gud round 2 :) > > Lol. Clearly just making up examples. "I know a guy." "They are all hacking/exploiting under the map." "Six hours a day kek." > > That sounds really boring. Kittens and puppies level of "why would anyone even try that for 20 minutes let alone 5+ hours?" > > Oh right. Because it doesn't happen. Also, why is permastealth even an issue if he's talking about hackers? If these people are untargetable due to being under the map, them being thieves is wholly irrelevant. If the deadeye is hiding in a keep and doing it legitimately without hacking, the fact that hackers exist is wholly irrelevant. Just sounds like an attempt to link thieves to hackers in the hope they get nerfed, frankly.

> @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > > > > Other professions, have a healer role, tank role, etc. > > > Except thieves. > > > > Gw2 has no roles. > > Every Profession in the game has ways to do Condi damage, do Power damage, heal, take hits, support etc. > > > > It's just that some Professions do it better. > > > > Thief can't face tank things, Thief can't power heal, Thief can't pulse boons all day long, but that's fine. > > A few other Professions can't either. > > > > Why are people dead set on having the best of everything for their favourite Profession? > > > > Because those so non existent roles do very much exist in raids/fractals and wvw. Honestly, i wouldn't mind thief having only dps specs if they were THAT good, like rogues in wow. But they are not. Every other prof does it better. Before xpacs you could argue that thief excels at mobility but even at that they are not THAT great anymore. Nearly any class has enough mobility to diminish thief importance in pvp. I am honestly annoyed at this point due to begging for crumbs and being forced to reroll to everything else just to be able to participate in game content. I do NOT have this problem as mesmer for example. Well, mesmer they just delete periodically through ham fisted nerfs. There's no point in begging for crumbs after someone just stabbed you in the gut.

Did you ever try duelling a meta D/P thief on a non meta thief build in HoT? Honestly I liked Pulm Impact, but I really like that D/P thieves can't cheese every other thief build through interrupt damage now, that alone killed a lot of build diversity for a long time imo. I don't really want to see that kind of gameplay come back, either.